The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

Clearly an opinion shown to be wrong by actual events. If Putin wanted the Crimea at all costs then an open invasion would have been easy... they already had plenty of soldiers already based there as part of the lease agreement. the fact is that Russian troops ensured stability and peace so a free and fair referendum could take place... if it had been 96% in favour of staying with the Ukraine I rather doubt Putin would have bothered... fighting 96% of the population is pointless... no matter what sort of fire power you have you can't win that one.

GarryB wrote:

Oh, I think we had seen this ''pointlessness'' in chechnya, with country being occupied regardless if people wanted russian paradise or not.

And before you say ''terrorists'', that was just an excuse, not the reason.

yeah... shall we blame Putin for both campaigns in Chechnya? The first starting in 1994 to 1996 or the second starting in August 1999 when Putin didn't become acting president till December 1999...

The country was being mismanaged by some idiots and after attacks on nearby regions the second conflict began.

if all Chechens wanted to leave the Russian federation there would be little Russia could do to stop them... the facts are that the so called separatists were really criminals and bandits and misruled Chechenia to the point where a sizable majority supported the Russian forces if just to get some law and order.

Clear evidence that separatists need to be separated from the civilian population before being dealt with otherwise you give them more volunteers in a continuous destructive cycle that leads to quagmires like Afghanistan and Vietnam.

And before you say ''terrorists'', that was just an excuse, not the reason.

Ukraine conflict is already a full-blown proxy war, with russian troops fighting on one side and nato on the other.

etaepsilonk wrote:

GarryB wrote:

Oh, I think we had seen this ''pointlessness'' in chechnya, with country being occupied regardless if people wanted russian paradise or not.

And before you say ''terrorists'', that was just an excuse, not the reason.

yeah... shall we blame Putin for both campaigns in Chechnya? The first starting in 1994 to 1996 or the second starting in August 1999 when Putin didn't become acting president till December 1999...

The country was being mismanaged by some idiots and after attacks on nearby regions the second conflict began.

if all Chechens wanted to leave the Russian federation there would be little Russia could do to stop them... the facts are that the so called separatists were really criminals and bandits and misruled Chechenia to the point where a sizable majority supported the Russian forces if just to get some law and order.

Clear evidence that separatists need to be separated from the civilian population before being dealt with otherwise you give them more volunteers in a continuous destructive cycle that leads to quagmires like Afghanistan and Vietnam.

Read my comment again:

And before you say ''terrorists'', that was just an excuse, not the reason.

High ranking decision makers didn't give the slightest fuck about any of that stuff you wrote. Oilfields and transit pipelines were what mattered there.

Flagship Victory wrote:

etaepsilonk wrote:

Ukraine conflict is already a full-blown proxy war, with russian troops fighting on one side and nato on the other.

I beg to differ. If this is a full blown war, hundreds of thousands would have died already rather than only 2,000+ Ukrainian soldiers. Think how many millions of soldiers died in WW1.

The number of dead mercenaries is probably close to 1500 total, poles, balts, are the main, but also many private ukrop mercenaries, many US and other western countries. wrote:

Werewolf wrote:The british also gave the native americans purposely smallpox infected blankets which is the equal of IMF loans and "Associate Treaty".

Russian did not 'occupy' Krimu. It was WE who set up the barricades, it was WE who armed up and stopped the Ukes from coming down here, it was WE who defended this city and this peninsula when the Flot Kommandeer clearly stated that his prekasse was to protect the Flot, not this city or the peninsula. It was WE who took Sevastopol, it was WE who took Krim Rada in Simferopol, it was WE who tossed the Ukr. functionaries out, it was WE who organized the referendum, it was WE who petitioned to Russia to join the Russian Federation. Krim was, is and always will be Russia. Understand that and accept that. There will never again be a foreign flag flying over Krimu, it will always be the Russian flag.

For a second I didn't understand you... but you are saying us, you are not saying the US or United States...  
There was a similar misunderstanding recently with werewolf...

We were not at the publik events simply because as a foreign man here we reasoned, and the PTB agreed, that I/we would stay in the background and not attend the publik meetings and such. We were acutely aware of every event in this city and Krimu during that time and watched almost everything on CCTV close to the publik events.

I understand your decision, but still think it would have been funny for a CNN or BBC reporter identifying you as an American and wanting desperately to hear your views on this aggression from Russia....   Boy I bet that film would have hit the editors floor faster than the nude pictures of Madeline Allbright and Hillary Clinton.

auslander wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote: the rebellious South.

Yup. We've never forgotten The War of Northern Aggression and never will.

The similarities of the two situations are in some ways striking and in other ways vastly different.

A couple of events here that are rarely noted. One, Poland opened a consulate on southside a little over a year before the Kiev mess started, in a purpose built structure that is considerably larger than would be needed for our sleepy little bucolic village. Why?

Right Sector 10's were filtering down here from early January. They stood out like a sore thumb and were clearly identifiable. Many of them were seen openly going in and out of the Polish Consulate frequently.

There were a number of catalysts that told us what was coming and sparked the move to barricade the borders and cities and arm up for defense. Militsiya and DAI heads were quietly replaced with new faces not from Krimu. Militsiya and DAI stations were noted receiving quantities of automats and medium MG's with enough ammo to hold off an army. Right Sector 10's were clearly visible taking over the Tatar demonstration at Krim Rada in Simferopol and it was they who turned violent and tried to storm the building (and in process getting their little back door access deal, watched and ignored by Militsiya guarding that door, a pretty severe nostril braiding). SBU in Sevastopol were noted receiving numerous additional cadre in late January through late February.

The real spark that set us off was that fateful Monday morning after the coup in Kiev when Yarush and Tyagnibok clearly stated in a live interview on Channel 5 in Kiev, owned by the way by Mr. Poroshenko, that they would lead their combined 5000 fighters and 'come down to Krim and put every Russian to the knife and burn that stinking city (Sevastopol) to the ground'. Within minutes the entire peninsula knew of those statements and at least in our little village on north side the citizens were in the streets, the women with fear in their eyes and the men ready to fight. They were not joking and we knew that fact.

The rest of the events followed rapidly. The first night on the barricades, 5 around Sevastopol, two at the north borders and three at Yalta, we had nothing but clubs except the north border where there were a few automats amongst the clubs. Krim Rada was secured and fortified well before dawn of the day Right Sector had clearly stated they were going to 'come back and burn Rada to the ground'. Various Militsiya and DAI stations and substations were visited and persuaded to open their armories to Opolchensya. Opolchensya itself grew by leaps and bounds, so many volunteers that there was no way to process them all at first. SBU tried and failed in their attempt to arrest A. Chalyi. Deputats of Sevastopol Rada were caught red handed plotting to hand the keys to the city to Right Sector operatives, overheard by two cleaning ladies who erupted from City Administration Building on Naximova Square screaming bloody murder which brought 5,000 citizens to the streets and squares around the building and stopped the deputat's little plots.

I could go on for hours laying out the details of what happened but I just don't have the time today. I may add to this tome this evening with a few more details of interest if there is interest.

TR1 wrote:

Werewolf wrote:The british also gave the native americans purposely smallpox infected blankets which is the equal of IMF loans and "Associate Treaty".

Yep, biological warfare is the same as handing out money with conditions.

Just when you think Werewolf can't lower the bar he has set.....lmao.

TR1 wrote:

Werewolf wrote:The british also gave the native americans purposely smallpox infected blankets which is the equal of IMF loans and "Associate Treaty".

Yep, biological warfare is the same as handing out money with conditions.

Just when you think Werewolf can't lower the bar he has set.....lmao.

Airbornewolf wrote:

auslander wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote: the rebellious South.

Yup. We've never forgotten The War of Northern Aggression and never will.

The similarities of the two situations are in some ways striking and in other ways vastly different.

A couple of events here that are rarely noted. One, Poland opened a consulate on southside a little over a year before the Kiev mess started, in a purpose built structure that is considerably larger than would be needed for our sleepy little bucolic village. Why?

Right Sector 10's were filtering down here from early January. They stood out like a sore thumb and were clearly identifiable. Many of them were seen openly going in and out of the Polish Consulate frequently.

There were a number of catalysts that told us what was coming and sparked the move to barricade the borders and cities and arm up for defense. Militsiya and DAI heads were quietly replaced with new faces not from Krimu. Militsiya and DAI stations were noted receiving quantities of automats and medium MG's with enough ammo to hold off an army. Right Sector 10's were clearly visible taking over the Tatar demonstration at Krim Rada in Simferopol and it was they who turned violent and tried to storm the building (and in process getting their little back door access deal, watched and ignored by Militsiya guarding that door, a pretty severe nostril braiding). SBU in Sevastopol were noted receiving numerous additional cadre in late January through late February.

The real spark that set us off was that fateful Monday morning after the coup in Kiev when Yarush and Tyagnibok clearly stated in a live interview on Channel 5 in Kiev, owned by the way by Mr. Poroshenko, that they would lead their combined 5000 fighters and 'come down to Krim and put every Russian to the knife and burn that stinking city (Sevastopol) to the ground'. Within minutes the entire peninsula knew of those statements and at least in our little village on north side the citizens were in the streets, the women with fear in their eyes and the men ready to fight. They were not joking and we knew that fact.

The rest of the events followed rapidly. The first night on the barricades, 5 around Sevastopol, two at the north borders and three at Yalta, we had nothing but clubs except the north border where there were a few automats amongst the clubs. Krim Rada was secured and fortified well before dawn of the day Right Sector had clearly stated they were going to 'come back and burn Rada to the ground'. Various Militsiya and DAI stations and substations were visited and persuaded to open their armories to Opolchensya. Opolchensya itself grew by leaps and bounds, so many volunteers that there was no way to process them all at first. SBU tried and failed in their attempt to arrest A. Chalyi. Deputats of Sevastopol Rada were caught red handed plotting to hand the keys to the city to Right Sector operatives, overheard by two cleaning ladies who erupted from City Administration Building on Naximova Square screaming bloody murder which brought 5,000 citizens to the streets and squares around the building and stopped the deputat's little plots.

I could go on for hours laying out the details of what happened but I just don't have the time today. I may add to this tome this evening with a few more details of interest if there is interest.

very interesting insights in what happened there on the Crimea. im sure there are other members on here that are also curious to this.

ive seen the documentary Crimea, the way home but as you pointed out it missed parts of what happened and other portions might have been a little out of proportion. still, you can imagine for people living here in the west that take the effort to look that documentary up online it already gave a very different narrative than what "we" see daily pass by here in the western media.

....i mean, the reaction among my military friends seeing the Americans where sailing straight towards the Crimea until getting locked by coastal missile defenses got interpreted as "American aggression" on this end.

perhaps you can write down your experiences and point of view of the events in the Crimea in an separate thread on this forum. if you have and are willing to take that time of course.

for example, i was not aware of those television broadcasts of stating to start terror campaigns in the Crimea. the Crimea documentary mentioned the train with right sector thugs but not these details.

its your decision of course, if it takes too much of your time i'd understand.

PapaDragon wrote:

Werewolf wrote:The british also gave the native americans purposely smallpox infected blankets which is the equal of IMF loans and "Associate Treaty".

Given the choice, I would take smallpox blankets over IMF loan any day of the week....

auslander wrote: I will speak to the mods on forum after my week's probationary membership is up. Anything I write in a new thread with their permission will be as we saw it and as we knew and know it. I will write nothing that we either did not see or we don't have absolute proof happened and this proof may be from people whom we trust explicitly. Anything we did not witness personally will be verified by minimum two trustworthy witnesses, either civilian or military. There will be things I can not go in to detail about, for instance the securing of Krim Rada in Simferopol, but I will tell you we know almost all the boys who did that operation quite well. Trolls will be ignored, which is the proper way to deal with them. Erudite discussions will be most welcome.

Time for me will be at a premium for next week, we are storming to get ready for Victory Day events. I am also in process of editing the last chapter of my first book for the umpteenth time and will try to publish by the end of May. I'm happy with most of the chapter but I can't get the level of emotion I want from the final quarter of the chapter, although I am satisfied with the last very few paragraphs. When that one is published I will start work on a book about what happened in Krimu and Novorossiya and another tome.  

auslander wrote:

Airbornewolf wrote:

auslander wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote: the rebellious South.

Yup. We've never forgotten The War of Northern Aggression and never will.

The similarities of the two situations are in some ways striking and in other ways vastly different.

A couple of events here that are rarely noted. One, Poland opened a consulate on southside a little over a year before the Kiev mess started, in a purpose built structure that is considerably larger than would be needed for our sleepy little bucolic village. Why?

Right Sector 10's were filtering down here from early January. They stood out like a sore thumb and were clearly identifiable. Many of them were seen openly going in and out of the Polish Consulate frequently.

There were a number of catalysts that told us what was coming and sparked the move to barricade the borders and cities and arm up for defense. Militsiya and DAI heads were quietly replaced with new faces not from Krimu. Militsiya and DAI stations were noted receiving quantities of automats and medium MG's with enough ammo to hold off an army. Right Sector 10's were clearly visible taking over the Tatar demonstration at Krim Rada in Simferopol and it was they who turned violent and tried to storm the building (and in process getting their little back door access deal, watched and ignored by Militsiya guarding that door, a pretty severe nostril braiding). SBU in Sevastopol were noted receiving numerous additional cadre in late January through late February.

The real spark that set us off was that fateful Monday morning after the coup in Kiev when Yarush and Tyagnibok clearly stated in a live interview on Channel 5 in Kiev, owned by the way by Mr. Poroshenko, that they would lead their combined 5000 fighters and 'come down to Krim and put every Russian to the knife and burn that stinking city (Sevastopol) to the ground'. Within minutes the entire peninsula knew of those statements and at least in our little village on north side the citizens were in the streets, the women with fear in their eyes and the men ready to fight. They were not joking and we knew that fact.

The rest of the events followed rapidly. The first night on the barricades, 5 around Sevastopol, two at the north borders and three at Yalta, we had nothing but clubs except the north border where there were a few automats amongst the clubs. Krim Rada was secured and fortified well before dawn of the day Right Sector had clearly stated they were going to 'come back and burn Rada to the ground'. Various Militsiya and DAI stations and substations were visited and persuaded to open their armories to Opolchensya. Opolchensya itself grew by leaps and bounds, so many volunteers that there was no way to process them all at first. SBU tried and failed in their attempt to arrest A. Chalyi. Deputats of Sevastopol Rada were caught red handed plotting to hand the keys to the city to Right Sector operatives, overheard by two cleaning ladies who erupted from City Administration Building on Naximova Square screaming bloody murder which brought 5,000 citizens to the streets and squares around the building and stopped the deputat's little plots.

I could go on for hours laying out the details of what happened but I just don't have the time today. I may add to this tome this evening with a few more details of interest if there is interest.

very interesting insights in what happened there on the Crimea. im sure there are other members on here that are also curious to this.

ive seen the documentary Crimea, the way home but as you pointed out it missed parts of what happened and other portions might have been a little out of proportion. still, you can imagine for people living here in the west that take the effort to look that documentary up online it already gave a very different narrative than what "we" see daily pass by here in the western media.

....i mean, the reaction among my military friends seeing the Americans where sailing straight towards the Crimea until getting locked by coastal missile defenses got interpreted as "American aggression" on this end.

perhaps you can write down your experiences and point of view of the events in the Crimea in an separate thread on this forum. if you have and are willing to take that time of course.

for example, i was not aware of those television broadcasts of stating to start terror campaigns in the Crimea. the Crimea documentary mentioned the train with right sector thugs but not these details.

its your decision of course, if it takes too much of your time i'd understand.

I will speak to the mods on forum after my week's probationary membership is up. Anything I write in a new thread with their permission will be as we saw it and as we knew and know it. I will write nothing that we either did not see or we don't have absolute proof happened and this proof may be from people whom we trust explicitly. Anything we did not witness personally will be verified by minimum two trustworthy witnesses, either civilian or military. There will be things I can not go in to detail about, for instance the securing of Krim Rada in Simferopol, but I will tell you we know almost all the boys who did that operation quite well. Trolls will be ignored, which is the proper way to deal with them. Erudite discussions will be most welcome.

Time for me will be at a premium for next week, we are storming to get ready for Victory Day events. I am also in process of editing the last chapter of my first book for the umpteenth time and will try to publish by the end of May. I'm happy with most of the chapter but I can't get the level of emotion I want from the final quarter of the chapter, although I am satisfied with the last very few paragraphs. When that one is published I will start work on a book about what happened in Krimu and Novorossiya and another tome.  

gregoire wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

Werewolf wrote:The british also gave the native americans purposely smallpox infected blankets which is the equal of IMF loans and "Associate Treaty".

Given the choice, I would take smallpox blankets over IMF loan any day of the week....

..since you're vaccinated. Right?