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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #12

    KoTeMoRe
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:19 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    We don't know that. We know that a lot of AFV's were indeed UA, but key coomponents of the NAF were RU sourced. This is what NAF themselves have said.  This is all I need to know. Russia takes care of Bizniz.

    We know RF supplied arms and some minor numbers of tanks, but to say russia "obviously supplied ALL T-64,T-72A/B and B3 is retarded, not to mention that TR1 posts everything as some holygrail evidence and jerks off to it, while his first post of a B3 was a T-72BA, recently he posted this garbage of Kronet spotted in Ukraine, which was again a bullshit from ukrops with a Fagot engine portrayed as a Kornet remaining parts while a Kornet warhead was undamaged and undetonated, simply just used to smear shit against RF, while ukrops are openly recieving weapons from Nazi Masterlord US.

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    The basic C²/C³ equipment was RU.

    What?

    Command and Control/ Command, Control and Commo. If we add EW and various specialties(like the Panstir) total battlefield dominance wasn't far. What would have helped would be Air support. But you can't always get what you want.

    Off course all the vehicle pool wasn't Russian. It was Soviet clown . But yeah saying Russia equipped 10 to 20K people when Ukraine has been doeing that year in year out in 3rd world hells. A bit of a stretch.

    The alledged Panzir was rapidly mute after its first claims that it was brought into ukraine, while the chimps still cry about the BUK which we know was ukrainian.

    The Pantsir was a case of PR. We all know that. What wasn't is the fact we had Russian colums leaving Luhansk on late August, early september in good order and without many/any? apparent losses.
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:22 pm

    What wasn't is the fact we had Russian colums leaving Luhansk on late August, early september in good order and without many/any? apparent losses.

    Columns of what and if you could provide sources for it?

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    Post  whir Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:33 pm

    Werewolf wrote:The alledged Panzir was rapidly mute after its first claims that it was brought into ukraine, while the chimps still cry about the BUK which we know was ukrainian.
    There's nothing alleged about parading a single Pantsir in plain daylight along the streets of Lugansk (is not like well known Plotinsky's billboard with LPR colors is something you can see in other places) just to be recorded by dashcams as a show of force few days after UKrAF made a few sorties in the area.
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:40 pm

    whir wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:The alledged Panzir was rapidly mute after its first claims that it was brought into ukraine, while the chimps still cry about the BUK which we know was ukrainian.
    There's nothing alleged about parading a single Pantsir in plain daylight along the streets of Lugansk (is not like well known Plotinsky's billboard with LPR colors is something you can see in other places) just to be recorded by dashcams as a show of force few days after UKrAF made a few sorties in the area.

    Proofs of the locations and not some grainy pictures without any indication or reference of the location?

    Nothing so far posted about panzir was proofing anything.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:52 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    What wasn't is the fact we had Russian colums leaving Luhansk on late August, early september in good order and without many/any? apparent losses.

    Columns of what and if you could provide sources for it?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiOZHfxVGkw

    disregard the source, see the video. These are Russian troops in good order. This is what IN&OUT looks like.
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    Post  sepheronx Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:58 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    What wasn't is the fact we had Russian colums leaving Luhansk on late August, early september in good order and without many/any? apparent losses.

    Columns of what and if you could provide sources for it?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiOZHfxVGkw

    disregard the source, see the video. These are Russian troops in good order. This is what IN&OUT looks like.

    Cant see men or gear other than motorized equipment, so I have no idea if they are Russian or not, and nor can I identify this location. Could be or couldnt be.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:59 pm

    List of gear captured by rebels in Debaltsevo. It's from Russia Insider. Can't post source link since I'm still a noob here.

    Looks like a sweet haul...     thumbsup  

    Rebels' Debaltsevo Trophy Count: Over 450 Heavy Weapons, 200 Pieces of Armor, 60 Tanks

    Including nearly 200 heavy weapons which are immediately operable - the rest will be put into working condition after some are cannibalized for parts

    A partial count of captured equipment by just one of the two rebel republics

    Defense Ministry spokesman for Donetsk People’s Republic - one of the two breakaway republics in East Ukraine - says evacuation of useable military equipment that Ukraine forces surrendered or left behind in the January-February battle of Debaltsevo salient is now complete.

    The reported final tally of weapons DPR evacuated amounts to:

    Armored fighting vehicles:
    58 tanks - 15 immediately operable
    104 BMP infantry fighting vehicles - 38 operable
    37 other armored troop transporters - 12 operable

    Transportation vehicles:
    180 trucks - 76 operable
    28 special equipment vehicles - 9 operable
    11 MT-LB armored tracked vehicles  - 4 operable

    Artillery pieces:
    3 GRAD multiple rocket launchers - 2 operable
    14 Gvozdika self-propelled howitzers (122mm) - 9 operable
    13 2A65 howitzers (152mm) - 12 operable
    6 D30 howitzers (120mm) - 6 operable
    2 PM-38 mortars (120mm) - 2 operable
    2 2B9 mortars (82mm) - 2 operable
    1 2S9 self-propelled mortar - inoperable

    Anti-tank and anti-aircraft:
    6 ZU 23-2 anti-aircraft automatic cannons (23mm) - 4 operable
    3 MT-12 anti-tank guns (100mm) - 3 operable
    3 9P148 guided anti-tank missile - 3 operable

    These numbers refer only to the equipment evacuated by Donetsk People’s Republic. Forces of the Lugansk People’s Republic likely evacuated a many pieces as well. Also some equipment was destroyed in the fighting. Therefore the equipment losses of Ukraine army at Debaltsevo could be up to a few times higher than the numbers given here. Defense ministry spokesman:

       “All Ukrainian equipment after restoration and rehabilitation will equip our units, and we’ll use those not repairable as a source of spares. There are still significant numbers of Ukrainian weapons and equipment scattered near Debaltsevo, but most of that is actually only useless junk. Some we can use for future mine clearance activities, but all we can do with the rest is to scrap them.”

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    Post  macedonian Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:59 pm

    Werewolf wrote:
    What wasn't is the fact we had Russian colums leaving Luhansk on late August, early september in good order and without many/any? apparent losses.

    Columns of what and if you could provide sources for it?


    I think the CIA was involved in the Coup D'Etat in Kiev, but I can't post any sources for it, nor prove it any other way.
    It's just the nature of their work - they're very secretive and often leave no traces.

    Similarly, I'm not delusional to think that NAF fought all by themselves, but I have no concrete proof of that either. I just use logic.
    If anything I would like to see MORE "northern wind", not less. But as I said before: heads wiser than mine are at it at the Kremlin...and they seem to be doing a good job thus far.
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:03 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    What wasn't is the fact we had Russian colums leaving Luhansk on late August, early september in good order and without many/any? apparent losses.

    Columns of what and if you could provide sources for it?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiOZHfxVGkw

    disregard the source, see the video. These are Russian troops in good order. This is what IN&OUT looks like.

    Such videos no court would even consider an indication. Is there anything very specific that proofs RF regular forces crossing boarder or only videos with shut down comments and an unidentifiable location which exists everywhere?

    Something like the BUK were the location can be proven over billboards, streets, houses etc pp.
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:07 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    What wasn't is the fact we had Russian colums leaving Luhansk on late August, early september in good order and without many/any? apparent losses.

    Columns of what and if you could provide sources for it?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiOZHfxVGkw

    disregard the source, see the video. These are Russian troops in good order. This is what IN&OUT looks like.

    Cant see men or gear other than motorized equipment, so I have no idea if they are Russian or not, and nor can I identify this location. Could be or couldnt be.

    Now this is something I don't get, Ukrops weren't using MTLB's as prime movers then, it just wasn't the case. These guys are riding on Russian gear, with Russian gear and seem disciplined and straight to the biz. there is nothing to be overly secretive about. This is Northern Wind going back.
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:27 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:

    Now this is something I don't get, Ukrops weren't using MTLB's as prime movers then, it just wasn't the case. These guys are riding on Russian gear, with Russian gear and seem disciplined and straight to the biz. there is nothing to be overly secretive about. This is Northern Wind going back.

    This are just few MT-LB's and that proofs nothing, since both sides have them in shitload numbers. This gear is Soviet and hardly to claim that proofs russian regular forces, this is also unknown location. That is even less than those White Painted tanks that somehow should proof being in ukraine.
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    Post  whir Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:28 pm

    Werewolf wrote:Proofs of the locations and not some grainy pictures without any indication or reference of the location?

    Nothing so far posted about panzir was proofing anything.
    Since I can't post links yet but just copy "96K6 Pantsir-S1 in Lugansk" in YouTube.
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:41 pm

    whir wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:Proofs of the locations and not some grainy pictures without any indication or reference of the location?

    Nothing so far posted about panzir was proofing anything.
    Since I can't post links yet but just copy "96K6 Pantsir-S1 in Lugansk" in YouTube.

    Should have deployed along TOR's and thunguskas and declared no fly zone.
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    Post  sepheronx Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:45 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:
    What wasn't is the fact we had Russian colums leaving Luhansk on late August, early september in good order and without many/any? apparent losses.

    Columns of what and if you could provide sources for it?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiOZHfxVGkw

    disregard the source, see the video. These are Russian troops in good order. This is what IN&OUT looks like.

    Cant see men or gear other than motorized equipment, so I have no idea if they are Russian or not, and nor can I identify this location. Could be or couldnt be.

    Now this is something I don't get, Ukrops weren't using MTLB's as prime movers then, it just wasn't the case. These guys are riding on Russian gear, with Russian gear and seem disciplined and straight to the biz. there is nothing to be overly secretive about. This is Northern Wind going back.

    Those MT-LB's were carrying men, the trucks were moving equipment. MT-LB being a Belorussian product and in great use throught the former USSR, is not in any indication of being Russian. Neither is the whereabouts of the location, as this location could even be Manitoba, Canada for all I know as I drive through similar locations.

    What I am getting at, is what werewolf said - this is not even proof as very little can be seen. A coloumn driving through could be novorussian, as they proven to be more professional, none drunk drivers compared to Ukrop.
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    Post  Airbornewolf Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:49 pm

    whir wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:Proofs of the locations and not some grainy pictures without any indication or reference of the location?

    Nothing so far posted about panzir was proofing anything.
    Since I can't post links yet but just copy "96K6 Pantsir-S1 in Lugansk" in YouTube.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igPIcEM6RLA

    ashramshef
    Location: 48.546240, 39.331236
    The location in Yandex Street View: http://maps.yandex.ru/-/CVGuM6JG

    it does appear to be the same green building with billboard, tramrails left side of the road.

    if true, nice addition for the NAF Wink
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    Post  whir Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:50 pm

    Werewolf wrote:This are just few MT-LB's and that proofs nothing, since both sides have them in shitload numbers. This gear is Soviet and hardly to claim that proofs russian regular forces, this is also unknown location. That is even less than those White Painted tanks that somehow should proof being in ukraine.
    The car driver was the one that uploaded the video stating that it was recorded while traveling between Lugansk and the border and that the column belonged to "their guys".
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    Post  KoTeMoRe Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:54 pm

    whir wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:This are just few MT-LB's and that proofs nothing, since both sides have them in shitload numbers. This gear is Soviet and hardly to claim that proofs russian regular forces, this is also unknown location. That is even less than those White Painted tanks that somehow should proof being in ukraine.
    The car driver was the one that uploaded the video stating that it was recorded while traveling between Lugansk and the border and that the column belonged to "their guys".

    Nashii, Nashiii uraa. etc etc etc.
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:59 pm

    Got this little nugget of info on Moscow Times. We already have "Imperium" and "God-Emperor" in the east so it was about time "Legions of Chaos" show up.... lol1

    Moscow Times wrote:

    Thousands of Psychics, Witches to Descend on Kiev in the Name of Peace


    Upward of 2,000 psychics, shamans, witches and warlocks are set to descend on Kiev on Thursday in a bid to bring peace to Ukraine through magic, local media reported Tuesday.

    The mass ritual will be held on the eve of May 1, a day traditionally associated with witchcraft in Kiev and among many adherents to Paganism internationally.

    It will take place on Mikhailovsky Square, bordered by two cathedrals, "the spiritual center and heart of Kiev and all of Ukraine," the event's organizer, shaman Sergei "Sabirius" Grechishkin, said in comments to Ukrainian news site Vesti.
     
    The ritual will be led by "13 masters of the first circle," for whom Grechishkin is prepared to vouch. Аs well as possessing paranormal capabilities, the event's planned participants are "decent people with kind hearts," Grechishkin told Vesti.

    "On the square we will collectively appeal to higher powers … to rouse people from this bloody outbreak of anger and hatred and ask to save everyone who has found themselves in this terrible slaughter."

    Vesti reported that Kiev officials were unaware of the planned ritual.

    Deacon of the St. Mikhail Monastery, Father Ivan, spoke to Vesti about the planned ritual, of which he had previously been unaware. "There's nothing bad about people planning to pray for peace in Ukraine. … [but] people pray for peace in church. … You mustn't forget that apart from God, there is also the devil, who can, via [psychics, shamans, witches and warlocks], create what at first glance looks like good things which then turn out to have been made using dark powers."

    A planned group prayer in the St. Sophia Cathedral on the same square turned sour in 1993, Vesti noted. Members of the "White Brotherhood" sect had wanted to take over the cathedral, host a group prayer and then set the cathedral alight. Police intervened and arrested the organizers.

    Crazy thing is that I seem to remember someone mentioning unit of pagans fighting in the ranks of NAF a while back...might be start of inter-pagan religious war. Cool
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    Post  Werewolf Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:17 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    whir wrote:
    Werewolf wrote:This are just few MT-LB's and that proofs nothing, since both sides have them in shitload numbers. This gear is Soviet and hardly to claim that proofs russian regular forces, this is also unknown location. That is even less than those White Painted tanks that somehow should proof being in ukraine.
    The car driver was the one that uploaded the video stating that it was recorded while traveling between Lugansk and the border and that the column belonged to "their guys".

    Nashii, Nashiii uraa.  etc etc etc.

    That is not an evidence nor does this qualify as indication.

    Do we need this talks again about what is the defnition of Proof/Evidence?
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    Post  Firebird Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:22 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Got this little nugget of info on Moscow Times. We already have "Imperium" and "God-Emperor" in the east so it was about time "Legions of Chaos" show up.... lol1

    Moscow Times wrote:

    Thousands of Psychics, Witches to Descend on Kiev in the Name of Peace


    Upward of 2,000 psychics, shamans, witches and warlocks are set to descend on Kiev on Thursday in a bid to bring peace to Ukraine through magic, local media reported Tuesday.

    The mass ritual will be held on the eve of May 1, a day traditionally associated with witchcraft in Kiev and among many adherents to Paganism internationally.

    It will take place on Mikhailovsky Square, bordered by two cathedrals, "the spiritual center and heart of Kiev and all of Ukraine," the event's organizer, shaman Sergei "Sabirius" Grechishkin, said in comments to Ukrainian news site Vesti.
     
    The ritual will be led by "13 masters of the first circle," for whom Grechishkin is prepared to vouch. Аs well as possessing paranormal capabilities, the event's planned participants are "decent people with kind hearts," Grechishkin told Vesti.

    "On the square we will collectively appeal to higher powers … to rouse people from this bloody outbreak of anger and hatred and ask to save everyone who has found themselves in this terrible slaughter."

    Vesti reported that Kiev officials were unaware of the planned ritual.

    Deacon of the St. Mikhail Monastery, Father Ivan, spoke to Vesti about the planned ritual, of which he had previously been unaware. "There's nothing bad about people planning to pray for peace in Ukraine. … [but] people pray for peace in church. … You mustn't forget that apart from God, there is also the devil, who can, via [psychics, shamans, witches and warlocks], create what at first glance looks like good things which then turn out to have been made using dark powers."

    A planned group prayer in the St. Sophia Cathedral on the same square turned sour in 1993, Vesti noted. Members of the "White Brotherhood" sect had wanted to take over the cathedral, host a group prayer and then set the cathedral alight. Police intervened and arrested the organizers.

    Crazy thing is that I seem to remember someone mentioning unit of pagans fighting in the ranks of NAF a while back...might be start of inter-pagan religious war. Cool

    Pagan can mean absolutely anything. Ranging from peace and love flower power hippies. To full blood child sacrificing Satanists, or "Dark Side/Left Hand Path Paganism" as Hitler would adhere to. The definitions are a bit sketchy, mainly because Paganism has so many branches, that some pagans often make shit up as they go along.

    Kiev is actually an ancient centre of Paganism. Thats probably why it went on to become Russia's first capital. As Christian shrines were often build in pagan centres as Christianity replaced Paganism.
    Witches good and bad would descend on the Bald Mount in Kiev. Strangely it was actually(or probably) the scene depicted in the Disney cartoon Fantasia where witchcraft is shown.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysa_Hora_%28Kiev%29

    Its clear Kiev has indeed attracted the forces of good and evil. Whether it was Bandera Nazism, the founding of the Russian state and many other things. Hopefully the pendulum will swing back, and Kiev will become integral to Russian identity again. You could say Moscow is synonymous with the Kremlin and St Basils, St Pburg with arts and culture. But Kiev you could say was/is synonymous with so many Russian orthodox cathedrals, back to ancient times.

    After all, its not called the Mother City of the Rus for nothing.
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    Post  Firebird Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:26 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:Got this little nugget of info on Moscow Times. We already have "Imperium" and "God-Emperor" in the east so it was about time "Legions of Chaos" show up.... lol1

    Moscow Times wrote:

    Thousands of Psychics, Witches to Descend on Kiev in the Name of Peace


    Upward of 2,000 psychics, shamans, witches and warlocks are set to descend on Kiev on Thursday in a bid to bring peace to Ukraine through magic, local media reported Tuesday.

    The mass ritual will be held on the eve of May 1, a day traditionally associated with witchcraft in Kiev and among many adherents to Paganism internationally.

    It will take place on Mikhailovsky Square, bordered by two cathedrals, "the spiritual center and heart of Kiev and all of Ukraine," the event's organizer, shaman Sergei "Sabirius" Grechishkin, said in comments to Ukrainian news site Vesti.
     
    The ritual will be led by "13 masters of the first circle," for whom Grechishkin is prepared to vouch. Аs well as possessing paranormal capabilities, the event's planned participants are "decent people with kind hearts," Grechishkin told Vesti.

    "On the square we will collectively appeal to higher powers … to rouse people from this bloody outbreak of anger and hatred and ask to save everyone who has found themselves in this terrible slaughter."

    Vesti reported that Kiev officials were unaware of the planned ritual.

    Deacon of the St. Mikhail Monastery, Father Ivan, spoke to Vesti about the planned ritual, of which he had previously been unaware. "There's nothing bad about people planning to pray for peace in Ukraine. … [but] people pray for peace in church. … You mustn't forget that apart from God, there is also the devil, who can, via [psychics, shamans, witches and warlocks], create what at first glance looks like good things which then turn out to have been made using dark powers."

    A planned group prayer in the St. Sophia Cathedral on the same square turned sour in 1993, Vesti noted. Members of the "White Brotherhood" sect had wanted to take over the cathedral, host a group prayer and then set the cathedral alight. Police intervened and arrested the organizers.

    Crazy thing is that I seem to remember someone mentioning unit of pagans fighting in the ranks of NAF a while back...might be start of inter-pagan religious war. Cool

    After those crackpots who tried to build a wooden catapult, you've gotta wonder whether they get their ideas from Game of Thrones..
    I wonder what the odds of one of those Femen nutters getting her tits out and claiming to have a dragon... scratch
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    Post  macedonian Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:51 pm

    Ukraine’s Right Sector nationalists look set to shrug off Kiev’s control



    Dmytro Yarosh on his page in Facebook warned that the conflict between
    Right Sector and the General Staff of the regular armed forces may flare up again


    TASS wrote:KIEV, April 30. /TASS/. The rifts that developed between Ukraine’s ultra-right Right Sector paramilitaries and the General Staff of the regular armed forces of late may flare up with renewed force again, their leader, Dmytro Yarosh warned on his page in Facebook. He went as far as comparing his men to the armed gangs of Ukrainian Cossacks of the 16th century, who had escaped from oppressive aristocracy to a fortified area in the lower reaches of the Dnieper River, historically known as the Zaporozhian Sech. In this way Yarosh echoed threats from the Right Sector’s press-secretary, Artyom Skoropadsky, who on Wednesday warned his men would set fire to the presidential office building in Kiev.

    More @ TASS >>
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    Post  macedonian Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:53 pm

    Diplomats of Belarus, Serbia, Switzerland, Germany discuss plan for Ukraine Contact Group meeting



    Interfax.ua wrote:

    A Belarusian deputy foreign minister met with diplomats from Serbia, Switzerland and Germany on Thursday to discuss planned meetings in Minsk of the Contact Group on Ukraine and working subgroups of the group.

    Yelena Kupchina's meeting with the diplomats of Serbia, Switzerland and Germany - the so-called troika of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe - had been requested by the troika, the Belarusian Foreign Ministry told Interfax.

    The troika was represented at the meeting by Serbian Ambassador to Belarus Veljko Kovacevic, German charge d'affaires in Belarus Holger Rapior, and head of the Office of the Swiss Embassy to Belarus Aldo de Luca.

    interfax.ua
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    Post  macedonian Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:57 pm

    Ukrainian rebels expel foreign aid group IRC



    Reuters wrote:DONETSK, Ukraine April 30 (Reuters) - Representatives of a New York-based aid group were expelled from separatist-held territories in eastern Ukraine on Thursday after rebels closed down their operational base, accusing them of spying.

    Around 17 foreign and local workers for the International Rescue Committee (IRC) were detained in their office in the rebel-controlled city of Donetsk while their belongings were searched, a Reuters witness said.

    The foreigners were then escorted to a hotel under armed guard before being driven to a separatist roadblock to cross into Ukrainian-controlled territory, the witness said.

    continued (Reuters) >>

    Gotta say I agree with DNR here. These "NGO's" have been used for spy activities before.
    I wouldn't trust them either.
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    Post  macedonian Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:02 pm

    World Bank Predicts Ukrainian Economy Will be Among 2015's Worst Performers



    The World Bank has lowered Ukraine's economic outlook
    and blames its worsening economic woes on the ongoing conflict in the east of the country.


    RIA wrote:The World Bank released its Ukraine Economic Update on Wednesday, in which it projected the country's GDP will fall 7.5 percent in 2015, compared to a decline of 6.8 percent in 2014, a further drop it attributed to the ongoing war in the east of the country.

    "This lower forecast is mainly driven by the ongoing conflict that has complicated efforts to stabilize the economy, disrupted economic activities, and hurt confidence of both investors and consumers," wrote the bank in the press release which announced these results.

    continued @ Sputnik >>

    Too bad we don't have Preobrazhensky here to tell us how things are looking up in Ukraine and how generally - everything is just peachy... Very Happy

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