Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

Mike E wrote:

Militarov wrote:Yeah i agree, video is quite poor, i hope HD version will soon be on youtube as other Poligon shows. Video itself looks good, however i am not sure about device used to take video, somehow looks its civilian grade tho imaging is clearly in HD resolution.

Not exactly sure what you mean...the exterior optics? Or the internal monitor?

I am talking about that CCTV camera that is feeding video the to fire control system display in front of operator here. And monitor i dont know, it might be even of Russian origin, some companies did start producing matrix for monitors some years ago.

Militarov wrote:
Yeah i agree, video is quite poor, i hope HD version will soon be on youtube as other Poligon shows. Video itself looks good, however i am not sure about device used to take video, somehow looks its civilian grade tho imaging is clearly in HD resolution.

wtf are you talking about? What do you mean by civilian and how can you tell it apart from military grade? Is there some telltale sign I am missing? Khaki colored frame or something?

Just put the ignore, no need to see it lol.


"Civilian"

ult wrote:

Militarov wrote:
Yeah i agree, video is quite poor, i hope HD version will soon be on youtube as other Poligon shows. Video itself looks good, however i am not sure about device used to take video, somehow looks its civilian grade tho imaging is clearly in HD resolution.

wtf are you talking about? What do you mean by civilian and how can you tell it apart from military grade? Is there some telltale sign I am missing? Khaki colored frame or something?

CCTVs are built in multiple quality and sensor grades, of the shelf civilian solutions are used by us common folk for security in homes, shops, hospitals etc, sometimes even by armies to reduce costs. Military grade ones however again come in few "grades", this one i saw on that video obviously lacks digital image stabilization and that is mostly being case with commercial models, and yeah if this video was of abit better quality you could determine if sensor used is civilian or military grade. Most notably military grade sensors are extremly fast and there is no antialiasing and filtering.

Military grade ones use special sealings to prevent water from entering electronic compartment, its radiation hardened, faster digital signal processing, better quality lenses, post image processing, digital video stabilisation, Faraday cage is not rare either. I noticed when he zoomed in to check effect on target it placed his viewfield on random spot under and on the side of the window, that should not be the case on FCS integrated camera sights, it should zoom directly on his corsair position but that is software related and is easily changed. What i do not like at all is fact its getting blinded by the gun, quite alot, compared to other daylight sights i have seen around. Again i am saying this video is of very poor quality so i said "it looks".

Glyph wrote:Just put the ignore, no need to see it lol.


"Civilian"

Well, you can laugh as much as you want but civilian grade sensors are not rare in military applications due to their price and availability. Of the shelf civilian solutions are fairly cheap and easy to come buy, meanwhile military grade equipment of similar performance is often couple dozen times more expencive, so many militaries decided to use civilian electronics and seal them in propper protective containers, most notably US is using Ipads in ruggerized protective shells. Most of the notebooks and command stations around the globe for UAVs are commercial notebooks in protective aluminium suitcases, Serbian army for an example is using Toshiba and Panasonic ruggerised notebooks noone is expecting everything to be completely dedicated for military purpose, compromises need to exist.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

They added another hatch, one where driver is now. Different machine than ones we saw before.

"Digital Image Stabilization"

The K-25 was not moving.

"it placed his viewfield on random spot under and on the side of the window, that should not be the case on FCS integrated camera sights, it should zoom directly on his corsair position but that is software related and is easily changed."

he is switching focal length, take look at what range they shot at and do the think on why it snapped so suddenly instead of the variable zoom.

Take a nice long think. Hint: "focal length"
Skip 30 seconds in.



With yours sentence of displeasure on the blinding caused by ejected gasses, I truly recommend the vertical comedy.

I wont bother to do the reply yours latest message.

Glyph wrote:

"Digital Image Stabilization"

The K-25 was not moving.

"it placed his viewfield on random spot under and on the side of the window, that should not be the case on FCS integrated camera sights, it should zoom directly on his corsair position but that is software related and is easily changed."

he is switching focal length, take look at what range they shot at and do the think on why it snapped so suddenly instead of the variable zoom.

Take a nice long think. Hint: "focal length"
Skip 30 seconds in.



With yours sentence of displeasure on the blinding caused by ejected gasses, I truly recommend the vertical comedy.

I wont bother to do the reply yours latest message.

It wasnt moving? So? Image stabilisation should be always present and provide stabilisation even during firing from static position post processing is always working its not something that turns itself when vehicle starts moving or anything of the sort.

What does exacly proves that what you linked? Its keeping corsair on original target its not moved anywhere, unlike what happened on that K25 video where guy spent 5 seconds trying to find window that he already had in sights. You need to make software and electromechanical part of FCS to work together, when you give command for optical zoom software should corespond and adjust parameters of all userside elements to be insantly ready to engage same target, on that K25 video i dont see that happening, its acting like commander console and not part of FCS.

Back in time Land remote observation posts based on of the shelf Sony digital cameras used software i wrote, i might not be an expert in field of digital processing and image enhancing but i am sure as hell well aware how things should be done in terms of user side software, and what i saw there did not really work for me, if i made console act like that my company would lose contract with police. When its about gases blocking view of gunner, thats a sign you need to change either your gun or your sight feed sensor position.

Do i look to you like i care if you will reply to me or not? Dont be silly.

Militarov wrote:

It wasnt moving? So? Image stabilisation should be always present and provide stabilisation even during firing from static position post processing is always working its not something that turns itself when vehicle starts moving or anything of the sort.

What does exacly proves that what you linked? Its keeping corsair on original target its not moved anywhere, unlike what happened on that K25 video where guy spent 5 seconds trying to find window that he already had in sights. You need to make software and electromechanical part of FCS to work together, when you give command for optical zoom software should corespond and adjust parameters of all userside elements to be insantly ready to engage same target, on that K25 video i dont see that happening, its acting like commander console and not part of FCS.

Back in time Land remote observation posts based on of the shelf Sony digital cameras used software i wrote, i might not be an expert in field of digital processing and image enhancing but i am sure as hell well aware how things should be done in terms of user side software, and what i saw there did not really work for me, if i made console act like that my company would lose contract with police. When its about gases blocking view of gunner, thats a sign you need to change either your gun or your sight feed sensor position.

Do i look to you like i care if you will reply to me or not? Dont be silly.

You do understand that the frequency at what the plattform gets vibration from firing are beyond the physical capability of any stabilisation system to compensate?

Militarov wrote:

CCTVs are built in multiple quality and sensor grades, of the shelf civilian solutions are used by us common folk for security in homes, shops, hospitals etc, sometimes even by armies to reduce costs. Military grade ones however again come in few "grades", this one i saw on that video obviously lacks digital image stabilization and that is mostly being case with commercial models, and yeah if this video was of abit better quality you could determine if sensor used is civilian or military grade. Most notably military grade sensors are extremly fast and there is no antialiasing and filtering.

Military grade ones use special sealings to prevent water from entering electronic compartment, its radiation hardened, faster digital signal processing, better quality lenses, post image processing, digital video stabilisation, Faraday cage is not rare either. I noticed when he zoomed in to check effect on target it placed his viewfield on random spot under and on the side of the window, that should not be the case on FCS integrated camera sights, it should zoom directly on his corsair position but that is software related and is easily changed. What i do not like at all is fact its getting blinded by the gun, quite alot, compared to other daylight sights i have seen around. Again i am saying this video is of very poor quality so i said "it looks".

You sound like that kind of guy who measures stealth by pictures. You don't know anything about Kurganets sights, and you can't make any conclusions based on that 360p video.

Militarov wrote:

It wasnt moving? So? Image stabilisation should be always present and provide stabilisation even during firing from static position post processing is always working its not something that turns itself when vehicle starts moving or anything of the sort.

What does exacly proves that what you linked? Its keeping corsair on original target its not moved anywhere, unlike what happened on that K25 video where guy spent 5 seconds trying to find window that he already had in sights. You need to make software and electromechanical part of FCS to work together, when you give command for optical zoom software should corespond and adjust parameters of all userside elements to be insantly ready to engage same target, on that K25 video i dont see that happening, its acting like commander console and not part of FCS.

Back in time Land remote observation posts based on of the shelf Sony digital cameras used software i wrote, i might not be an expert in field of digital processing and image enhancing but i am sure as hell well aware how things should be done in terms of user side software, and what i saw there did not really work for me, if i made console act like that my company would lose contract with police. When its about gases blocking view of gunner, thats a sign you need to change either your gun or your sight feed sensor position.

Do i look to you like i care if you will reply to me or not? Dont be silly.

It was not moving, no need for any stabilization. Digital or Mechanical.

Did you pay attention to focal length at all? Why it did not zoom in instead of snapping to such magnification?

Hint: Because it is not the digital zoom, but mechanical adjustment of focal length.

Perhaps you should watch the scene again, when asked to the zoom in to examine shot.

He zoomed in once, then again, both times it centered on aiming reticule. Because the field of view of the second magnification was so narrow, the windows of the van were not kept in view, adjustment was made.

And every military vehicle of this class suffers from obscurement of it sights when firing, no exception.

Werewolf wrote:

Militarov wrote:

It wasnt moving? So? Image stabilisation should be always present and provide stabilisation even during firing from static position post processing is always working its not something that turns itself when vehicle starts moving or anything of the sort.

What does exacly proves that what you linked? Its keeping corsair on original target its not moved anywhere, unlike what happened on that K25 video where guy spent 5 seconds trying to find window that he already had in sights. You need to make software and electromechanical part of FCS to work together, when you give command for optical zoom software should corespond and adjust parameters of all userside elements to be insantly ready to engage same target, on that K25 video i dont see that happening, its acting like commander console and not part of FCS.

Back in time Land remote observation posts based on of the shelf Sony digital cameras used software i wrote, i might not be an expert in field of digital processing and image enhancing but i am sure as hell well aware how things should be done in terms of user side software, and what i saw there did not really work for me, if i made console act like that my company would lose contract with police. When its about gases blocking view of gunner, thats a sign you need to change either your gun or your sight feed sensor position.

Do i look to you like i care if you will reply to me or not? Dont be silly.

You do understand that the frequency at what the plattform gets vibration from firing are beyond the physical capability of any stabilisation system to compensate?

Software image stabilisation is very refined these days that you wouldnt even belive, however there is no need here for such high end software on IFV its not going for movie filming but its quite noticeable here that its lacking one.

ult wrote:

Militarov wrote:

CCTVs are built in multiple quality and sensor grades, of the shelf civilian solutions are used by us common folk for security in homes, shops, hospitals etc, sometimes even by armies to reduce costs. Military grade ones however again come in few "grades", this one i saw on that video obviously lacks digital image stabilization and that is mostly being case with commercial models, and yeah if this video was of abit better quality you could determine if sensor used is civilian or military grade. Most notably military grade sensors are extremly fast and there is no antialiasing and filtering.

Military grade ones use special sealings to prevent water from entering electronic compartment, its radiation hardened, faster digital signal processing, better quality lenses, post image processing, digital video stabilisation, Faraday cage is not rare either. I noticed when he zoomed in to check effect on target it placed his viewfield on random spot under and on the side of the window, that should not be the case on FCS integrated camera sights, it should zoom directly on his corsair position but that is software related and is easily changed. What i do not like at all is fact its getting blinded by the gun, quite alot, compared to other daylight sights i have seen around. Again i am saying this video is of very poor quality so i said "it looks".

You sound like that kind of guy who measures stealth by pictures. You don't know anything about Kurganets sights, and you can't make any conclusions based on that 360p video.

No. I do not "measure stealth" by pictures coz stealth cannot be measured RCS can. While it is true that i do not know anything about K25 sights you can notice in my original post that i said "IT LOOK" and "I CANT BE SURE" and "VIDEO IS OF LOW QUALITY".

Glyph wrote:

Militarov wrote:

It wasnt moving? So? Image stabilisation should be always present and provide stabilisation even during firing from static position post processing is always working its not something that turns itself when vehicle starts moving or anything of the sort.

What does exacly proves that what you linked? Its keeping corsair on original target its not moved anywhere, unlike what happened on that K25 video where guy spent 5 seconds trying to find window that he already had in sights. You need to make software and electromechanical part of FCS to work together, when you give command for optical zoom software should corespond and adjust parameters of all userside elements to be insantly ready to engage same target, on that K25 video i dont see that happening, its acting like commander console and not part of FCS.

Back in time Land remote observation posts based on of the shelf Sony digital cameras used software i wrote, i might not be an expert in field of digital processing and image enhancing but i am sure as hell well aware how things should be done in terms of user side software, and what i saw there did not really work for me, if i made console act like that my company would lose contract with police. When its about gases blocking view of gunner, thats a sign you need to change either your gun or your sight feed sensor position.

Do i look to you like i care if you will reply to me or not? Dont be silly.

It was not moving, no need for any stabilization. Digital or Mechanical.

Did you pay attention to focal length at all? Why it did not zoom in instead of snapping to such magnification?

Hint: Because it is not the digital zoom, but mechanical adjustment of focal length.

Perhaps you should watch the scene again, when asked to the zoom in to examine shot.

He zoomed in once, then again, both times it centered on aiming reticule. Because the field of view of the second magnification was so narrow, the windows of the van were not kept in view, adjustment was made.

And every military vehicle of this class suffers from obscurement of it sights when firing, no exception.

Digital stabilisation should always work 24/7 no reason for it not to, you tell me one reason ill go and light up my degree and then eat the ashes.

I said "optical zoom" actually i dont think any military would use something featuring digital zoom at least not on vehicle anyways. Look, Police recon platforms on vans use generally speaking same user console as one there, with difference in controls they use both mouse/keyboard + joystick coz they have more space, their request was to make software that will always land after zooming on object (or whatever) that has been aimed at, no matter how wide/narrow the actual viewfield is software and camera do together to fix it for you, and if you ask me that has to be done here too it will simply increase its effectiveness.

Yes, they all have some lvl of obscurement from gases however here its really noticeable, and it can be fairly easy reduced to improve "work place" of that gunner.

There is no need to be jumpy and attack me, i am the one suggesting improvements and changes, i am not being an asshole. I served on USSR/Russian military equipment i was victim of their seats welded directly on the chasis and teleconsoles with 3 finger joystick that gives you arthritis after a month, i am totally into improving that. My wife is Russian for the love of God, shes in charge which means i am Russian too

New videos about "Kurganets" at TV Zvezda

http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201509051055-1p2w.htm

http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201509051114-jumj.htm

Militarov wrote:

Digital stabilisation should always work 24/7 no reason for it not to, you tell me one reason ill go and light up my degree and then eat the ashes.

I said "optical zoom" actually i dont think any military would use something featuring digital zoom at least not on vehicle anyways. Look, Police recon platforms on vans use generally speaking same user console as one there, with difference in controls they use both mouse/keyboard + joystick coz they have more space, their request was to make software that will always land after zooming on object (or whatever) that has been aimed at, no matter how wide/narrow the actual viewfield is software and camera do together to fix it for you, and if you ask me that has to be done here too it will simply increase its effectiveness.

Yes, they all have some lvl of obscurement from gases however here its really noticeable, and it can be fairly easy reduced to improve "work place" of that gunner.

There is no need to be jumpy and attack me, i am the one suggesting improvements and changes, i am not being an asshole. I served on USSR/Russian military equipment i was victim of their seats welded directly on the chasis and teleconsoles with 3 finger joystick that gives you arthritis after a month, i am totally into improving that. My wife is Russian for the love of God, shes in charge which means i am Russian too

Wtf is the digital stabilization going to do in this case? Stabilize the optics so they cannot move?

Did you even read my reply? It did zoom in on the cursor, field of view did not include area of interest to the operator so operator adjusted it.

All exhaust gas is noticeable.



Footage of both main gun and coaxial from sights.

But if you know so much, write an email, they could use a "Russian" and your "degree".

Full program about Kurganets - http://telepoisk.com/peredacha-tv-archiv/586188192/6-9-2015

˘^^^^^^^

Hmm... Serial production already started?

I doubt there are any solid orders at this point. Probably all pre-production and technology demonstrater vehicles.

Well, if they're this quick now it does bode well for serial production once they get the orders. Fingers crossed.

Russian Army to receive another batch of Kurganets-25 platform vehicles in early 2016

The Kurganets-25 platform is among such newly developed armored platforms as the heavy-weight Armata, medium-weight Boomerang and light-weight Taifun

NIZHNY TAGIL (Sverdlovsk Region), September 9. /TASS/. Another delivery of infantry fighting vehicles (IFV) and armored personnel carriers (APC) based on the Kurganets-25 platform is slated for early next year, Alexander Klyuzhev, executive director of Tractor Plants’ subsidiary Kurganmashzavod, told TASS on Wednesday.

"APCs and IFVs derived from the Kurganets-25 are planned for delivery in early 2016," he said without mentioning the number of vehicles the military would get.

Klyuzhev said the platform was planned as the baseline model for a family of derivatives. "They will be command, communications and other vehicles. In the near future, we are going to develop an armored recovery vehicle, an ARV," he added.

The Kurganets-25 platform is among such newly developed armored platforms as the heavy-weight Armata, medium-weight Boomerang and light-weight Taifun. It was announced earlier that the platform’s trials are slated for completion in 2016, while its combat vehicle derivatives may enter production in 2017-18. It also was reported that a 120-mm self-propelled artillery piece and a 57-mm antiaircraft system are planned for development on the basis of the Kurganets-25.