Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

Ranxerox71 wrote:

I was just quote Officer from one of episode "Serving to Russia" where guys which wasn't(i must admit) driving Armata or Kurganec, or Bumerang , but BMP3 and T-90 had such kind of let say ,suggestions,
I know that T-90SM have state of the art hunter killer sight, excellent Night vision and very good thermal vision, but does they systems are fully Russian production in time when UVZ was work on T-90SM they have contract whit two french producers Tales and Sagem, Contract which today aren't valid any more.(at least for a "wider audience" ) that is my problem, or should i say some kind of wondering, Commander of VDV is very satisfied whit all sights on new BMD-M4.... Second , thing it is obvious, that Russian makers of Russian optic-electronic make big step progress,and i think that true leader is KRET corporation, which right now have so many great looking and modern solutions for Avionics and Cockpits screens, about REB gadgets do not need to talk about , because they already shown they high class and ultimate performance and that can be seen, also on BMP Dragoon, which have brand new modules for Optic-electronic sights, On Version whit Gun of 57mm, also is brand new and different looking modules ,  But no body of you can denial quality of Night and Thermal vision which we can see, that produce FLIR on F35, (i do not talk about whole plane but just about his Night and Thermal Sight, And for example same kind of Sights and quality of picture can't produce systems on Mi-28 Night Hunter or Ka-52, OK i can't said , does it those pictures of Bridge whit cars which all can see on you tube like PR material for F-35, does it that pictures have after enhanced sharpness in editing studio etc, but if that are "untouched" and post enhanced during editing, Than i can freely say that such quality of night and Thermal vision, on those distance, i wasn't seen on neither one Russian Plane, Helicopter, armored Vehicle (except Armata, because simply i have no chance to see from proper angle and distance how look picture on Armata monitors, for example is well known fact that whole module on Ka-52 for different kind of sights, wasn't have proper calibration in sense of elevation and azimuth, and that was assemble error (i believe that until know that problem is fixed) but on one of presentation of Navy version of Ka-52 that particular Ka.52 had fully different, much smaller by volume optic-electronic gadget under the nose, they even was said that every Navy variant of Ka-52 will have those module, which, by words of some of engineers have much better resolution,stabilization and contrast of picture, simply because on the sea especially when pilots search for does it target or something else between line of sky and sea,  module which is mounted on BBC version simply aren't capable to make distinction between those two during the heavy clouded sky, and during the any of low visibility condition, which can be extremely dangerous. But after , was started whit making more navy version, but that new Module is simply vanished, and to me very odd, no body was ask what was happened,after very harsh words towards "old" module on sea condition.Does it that Module actually was foreign made in, which now can be buy any more  (O.K that isn't some big number of navy Ka-52, but if Egypt are purchased Ka-52 for now they Mistral, that is Big Number of Highly capable strike helicopter, probably best one buy all capability, except if story is true, BBC variant have limitation on the sea because already mentioned reasons)
Greetings and Long Live to Russia. I'm big fan, but sometimes i'm pissed off because some time simply i can't understand why some parts of Russian Military Industrial Complex , simply aren't Given equal and undertaken task, and then either deliver something that has nothing to do with the requirements of the Army, or delayed for years, and just spend-steal money.

What the F-35 has or will have does not matter because that is not how military and army orders work.
Which existing in big numbers and active service Fighters of the US have been upgraded to equal level of TIS? None. The Apaches despite having the technology for 1080p MWIR and LWIR sights they still have not been used except on AH-1Z which is less than 2% of all Cobras in service and Apaches only recieved now an upgrade for the M-TADS/PVNS and that only because it had a weak Laser Designator which was one of the main reasons for this upgrade since the older weak SALH seeker on Hellfires couldn't acquire effectivley the Laser Spot on targets further than 5km under different environmental influences like dust (iraq), error and false alarm by noise of hot regions (iraq and afghanistan) aswell reduced the error in mrad of the old Laser Designator. The other thing that was upgraded and seen as an issue the black/white day sight that have been to blame for often Pilots not understanding the situation of their targets and engaging civilians due to bad picture quality and only grey shades they could see. With day color sight is now better during daylight to get a better awarness of the target and if they are actually armed and maybe the pilots could use more discipline training since they lack that most of all, but rant aside. The other upgrade was from the old 641x512 resolution sights to 720p, which is good but not the best US has actually they can offer a much higher resolution and sharpness and still this M-TADS have no Image processing like TSS AN/AQQ 30 of AH-1Z which enhances the picture quality and also uses better spectrum for longer range detection and identification which is currently the only one in service in this spectrum based on what i could find on the internet even tho the parameters of russian TOR, GOES-520/521/451 are not easily accessable, Zenit closed their page for information about TOR sights over several years ago can't find it on their side anymore, the pdf files that were on the internet are somehow not findable either and overall i don't see specifics about such sights easily anyways.

So to summerize it military orders and upgrades what they see as a necessity. This necessity is usually coming after major complaints and reports from use which russia just started now in Syria a low intense conflict for aviation but will give enough experience to crew and developer what needs to be enhanced and what is already good. That means we can only expect talk about upgrade in next 5 years since the majority of the modern helicopters right now recieve already upgrades this and next year for Mi-28N > Mi-28NM aswell Ka-52K integration. The west has many of such technologies on highest level but does not install them because it is always a cost/necessity problem and the Tiger EC-665 despite having good sights Strix and Osiris are still not the best nor the best at the time they were installed and France still has not considered upgrading them because they are fine.

The other issue that russia has it had disadvantage in such technologies since the throw back of the 90's and admittedly before that by some level, however with the cooperation with Thomson and Thales russia catched up and only needs to expand this technologies by expanding their facilities which they got few right now on that level but they go in that direction.


The other part you talked about of the Ka-52K sights are the old Thomson/Sagem sights from half a decade old deal before the sanctions, before the open and direct hostility PR in the media of US/France versus Russia only after that they started based on the Thales coorperation to have a higher priority on the GOES-451 and other own FLIR's. The Sagem sights are actually old but still not bad and having them now after the sanctions isn't going to be usefull since maintenance under sanctions with spare parts and equipment that you can not acquire anylonger is not the best thing you can do. What probems they actually might have with clouds is doubtful since they are directly based on technologies of the cooperation with Thales and the parameters of both sights should be similiar.