Kurganets & Boomerang Discussions Thread #2

dino00 wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:Looks like Kurganets is a done deal, and has already surpassed MOD's expectations:

Tests of the combat platform "Boomerang" confirmed the inherent characteristics

2 posts above yours...it's Boomerang man  what are you thinking

I meant Boomerang lol....

State tests of the newest K-16 “Boomerang” armored vehicle start in July 2019

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/2019625853-HeQB7.html

So Boomerangs are Ks, Kurganets are Bs, and Armatas are Ts...

This will get confusing unless they standardise the numbers... we know the Armata tank and IFVs are called T-14 and T-15 respectively but will they hold that to all the vehicle families?

Will the Kurganets tank be B-14 and IFV B-15, and will the Boomerang tank be K-14 and the IFV K-15?

What we need is a vehicle list for a standard Russian division... well both a tank division and a motorised infantry division... and then we could map out all the likely vehicle model types they will need...

The price of the newest armored personnel carrier on the Boomerang platform will be reduced at least three times

Alexander Krasovitsky, general director of the Military Industrial Company, said that if the cost of the armored personnel carrier is reduced, the Boomerang chassis will have "good export potential"

MOSCOW, July 19. / Tass /. The cost of a promising armored personnel carrier on the Boomerang platform will be reduced at least three times due to the replacement of components with an overestimated market price. This TASS told Alexander Krasovitsky, general director of the "Military-Industrial Company" (MIC), where they produce armored personnel carriers.

"I think, to divide into three [the present value] is the minimum that we will do," said Krasovitsky. “We did the analysis, looked at what was inside Boomerang, why it was expensive and horrified. All the work was given 10 years ago to firms that were monopolists, who overestimated the value of everything that was five or six times. "

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6680432

dino00 wrote:The price of the newest armored personnel carrier on the Boomerang platform will be reduced at least three times

Alexander Krasovitsky, general director of the Military Industrial Company, said that if the cost of the armored personnel carrier is reduced, the Boomerang chassis will have "good export potential"

MOSCOW, July 19. / Tass /. The cost of a promising armored personnel carrier on the Boomerang platform will be reduced at least three times due to the replacement of components with an overestimated market price. This TASS told Alexander Krasovitsky, general director of the "Military-Industrial Company" (MIC), where they produce armored personnel carriers.

"I think, to divide into three [the present value] is the minimum that we will do," said Krasovitsky. “We did the analysis, looked at what was inside Boomerang, why it was expensive and horrified. All the work was given 10 years ago to firms that were monopolists, who overestimated the value of everything that was five or six times. "

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6680432

If only the U.S. govt had the cojones to do this... ...We wouldn't have the newest Seahawk Helicopters pushing over a $100 million a piece.

Took them 5 years just to take a look even though they couldn't stop whining about the price?

Gotta love expediency here...

As long as they get the right price when they start putting them into service it doesn't matter when they choose to bring this up...

The F-35 has had 300 produced and while everyone is talking about problems nothing seems to be getting done about them... everyone seems to be passing the buck.

“We did the analysis, looked at what was inside Boomerang, why it was expensive and horrified. All the work was given 10 years ago to firms that were monopolists, who overestimated the value of everything that was five or six times. "

That sounds like marketing team is trying to do the work of the engineers ... they may end up with just a new btr-82 but still more expensive than btr-82 even if the price is reduced.

Well no, if you take it at face value, what they are saying is that the contents of the vehicle were Apple products, but now they have converted them to IBM compatible and the price has dropped dramatically...

Which makes a lot of sense to me.

Contracts worked out 10 years ago on USB memory sticks today would look like a real joke in terms of cost and performance... ten years ago you couldn't get 2GB memory sticks... in fact here in NZ I got a USB radio music player thing for about $300 that had 128MB of memory space... my fellow workers were so jealous because USB memory sticks didn't really exist then either so I could fit the equivalent of 100s of floppy disks work of information on a small portable device that I could also store and play music on, and it was very very small... it wasn't that long afterwards that 2GB and 4GB models appeared and the price dropped to about $20 each and my device was not impressive at all... and that is probably what the makers of the equipment for the vehicle are feeling now trying to charge $300 dollars for a 128MB memory device... I just bought four 32GB USB memory sticks for $40.

What a uparmored Kurganets-25 could look like:

The odds are pretty good that turrets will be standard... so the tank turret on the Armata will be fitted to the kurganets and boomerang, while the 57mm gun turret we have seen on some vehicles will be used on all three platforms too... etc etc.

That might be a BMP-T turret with a 120mm gun/mortar plus 40mm or short 57mm grenade launcher on the other side of the main gun and a HMG this side... (12.7,14.5, or 23mm calibre) perhaps with a rifle calibre MG next to the main gun.

Preliminary tests of armored personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles on the Boomerang chassis completed

MOSCOW, December 3. / TASS /. The Military Industrial Company, together with the Russian Ministry of Defense, completed preliminary tests of prototypes of the K-16 armored personnel carrier (BTR) and the K-17 infantry fighting vehicle (BMP) on the promising Boomerang wheeled chassis. About this TASS on Tuesday said the company's CEO Alexander Krasovitsky.

According to him, in accordance with the schedule for the development work of Boomerang, the Military Industrial Company LLC, together with the State Academic Technical University and the research organizations of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, completed the preliminary tests of prototypes

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/7252939

Update

"At the production facilities of VPK LLC, the assembly of new prototypes has begun in the framework of the Boomerang development center for conducting state tests. To date, the Zavod Korpus JSC, which is part of the management perimeter of VPK LLC, has prepared preparations for the production of armored corps of a modified design ", - said the head of the company, adding that almost 800 units of new technological equipment were created.

In addition, in the Nizhny Novgorod Military Engineering Center (part of the military-industrial complex LLC), a ready-made new armored hull is already located, on the basis of which a full-size mock-up of a combat vehicle for ballistic tests and mine resistance tests will be assembled.

Krasovitsky noted that all the work done and preparation for production will allow, after completion of state tests, to start mass production of the Boomerang unified interspecific wheeled platforms in any quantities required by the state customer.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/7252939

Are they State tests?

The ballistic and mine tests will be for the standard hull, so once it passes that then that is the green light to developing all the variants from tank through to air defence and artillery and anti tank missile and engineer and ambulance and scout and command vehicles as well as transports for troops and cargo...

So as far as I can tell the T-14 is the Armata tank, the T-15 is the Armata BMP, the T-16 is the Armata Engineer vehicle BREM type, the K-17 is the Boomerang BMP, and the K-16 is the Boomerang BTR.

For the Kurganets however, they keep calling it Kurganets-25, as opposed to B-xx.

BTW looking back through this thread there was quite a discussion about a Boomerang mounted T-14 125mm gun armed turret and how an Armata T-14 tank turret wouldn't fit a Boomerang... and a page or two above there was this photo, which I really didn't pay attention to at the time...

..."This will allow, already in 2022, after completion of state tests, to begin mass production of the Boomerang unified interspecific wheeled platforms"...

http://milindcom.ru/news/ooo-vpk-zavershilo-predvaritelnie-ispitaniya-v-ramkah-okr-bumerang/

This is from the official website from the Military Industrial Company, who produces boomerang. It's the same news but tass and others forget this part.

GarryB wrote:The ballistic and mine tests will be for the standard hull, so once it passes that then that is the green light to developing all the variants from tank through to air defence and artillery and anti tank missile and engineer and ambulance and scout and command vehicles as well as transports for troops and cargo...

So as far as I can tell the T-14 is the Armata tank, the T-15 is the Armata BMP, the T-16 is the Armata Engineer vehicle BREM type, the K-17 is the Boomerang BMP, and the K-16 is the Boomerang BTR.

For the Kurganets however, they keep calling it Kurganets-25, as opposed to B-xx.

BTW looking back through this thread there was quite a discussion about a Boomerang mounted T-14 125mm gun armed turret and how an Armata T-14 tank turret wouldn't fit a Boomerang... and a page or two above there was this photo, which I really didn't pay attention to at the time...

boomerang is one huge vehicle. I think they should keep its use for a minimum in an area with high counter-insurgency. I do not see the advantage in a classical war type scenario.

It is a light wheeled vehicle family... they could have made them much smaller, but they would have to breed dwarfs to operate in them... even the size that it is the troops have to hang their backpacks on the outside of the vehicle...

While I would say these vehicles are optimised for low intensity ops... their wheeled configuration will make them fast and cheap to operate and maintain so I suspect they will represent a large percentage of the future Russian armour park.

Their communications and optics and defensive systems will be every bit as good as those fitted to Armata and Kurganets based vehicles so they will be formidable vehicles in their own right.

Keep in mind tht these are 30 ton vehicles likely with protection better than BMP-3s in current service so a division equipped with these vehicles will be highly mobile, yet better armed and armoured than most of the vehicles in current armoured divisions.

The only vehicles in a current armoured division with better armour would be the Tanks... T-80s and T-90s... everything else from BMPs and BTRs and BRDMs and of course MTLBs and other light vehicles will have much less protection and mobility... not to mention about 15 different engine types, plus different track and wheel types and different transmissions and other systems and equipment.

State tests of an armored personnel carrier and BMP "Boomerang" will begin in the summer of 2020

"According to the plan, in the summer of 2020 we will go out for state tests," the military-industrial complex said, answering a question about the progress of work on the Boomerang.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/7360171

Good, so that is the APC and IFV, or more correctly for this forum the BTR and BMP versions of the Boomerang... one would assume the 30mm cannon armed Epoch turret on the former and the 57mm high velocity gun armed Epoch turret on the other... or another possibility could be the 57mm grenade launcher gun armed and bulat mini missile and Kornet missile armed Epoch turret for the BTR and 57mm high velocity gun and Bulat mini missile and Kornet missile armed Epoch turret for the BMP.

Should be interesting.

via Russian Embassy in India

Austin wrote:via Russian Embassy in India

Thanks Austin.

Where those images come from ?

Where those images come from ?

It's written in the post

Probably made by rosoboronexport for advertizing during shows.

Isos wrote:

Where those images come from ?

It's written in the post

Probably made by rosoboronexport for advertizing during shows.

These figures are probably accurate with ERA factory in. They do not take into consideration however
1- Allround protection.
2- Electronics
3- Comms
4- Fire range
5- Accuracy
6- Accuracy on the move
7- Penetration
8- Ammunition

That's an ad. It is made to say "mine is better than other's". Nothing else. It's not a technical data sheet.

I am sure the American version showing their armours superiority in stealth and cost would be much more impressive...

william.boutros wrote:These figures are probably accurate with ERA factory in. They do not take into consideration however
1- Allround protection.
2- Electronics
3- Comms
4- Fire range
5- Accuracy
6- Accuracy on the move
7- Penetration
8- Ammunition

They do include firing range.  Regarding the other qualities, I see no reason why the Kurganetz would be inferior to an overpriced POS like the Bradley.