S-300/400/500 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #1

yes its too far south-west from the island... but if it was more north it could cover sakhalin at least, from pacific shore of continental asia.

yes its too far south-west from the island... but if it was more north it could cover sakhalin at least, from pacific shore of continental asia.

Anything of importance on those islands worthy of protection will likely have their own S-300 batteries.

GarryB wrote:

yes its too far south-west from the island... but if it was more north it could cover sakhalin at least, from pacific shore of continental asia.

Anything of importance on those islands worthy of protection will likely have their own S-300 batteries.

Not necessarily:

1) There aren't any batteries there now, but...

2) That's a factor of S-300P/400 batteries mostly deploying in Western Command. The Vladivostok region (including Nakhodka), Komsomolsk, and Petropavlovsk are it for the Eastern Command's S-300P/400 deployment. Central Command is "worse", and Southern Command is a bit better off but that's because it's smaller. But this all is logical given what they need to defend where. Plus, Eastern Command has a crapload of FLANKERs and FOXHOUNDs in the area so they aren't exactly lacking for air defense.

GarryB wrote:

yes its too far south-west from the island... but if it was more north it could cover sakhalin at least, from pacific shore of continental asia.

Anything of importance on those islands worthy of protection will likely have their own S-300 batteries.

oil,gas are already being extracted...
potentially many rare minerals too...
japan is posturing, and maybe china.
sakhalin is a big island and pretty long north-south. im sure that justifies at least some older s-300 battery there which could also cover kuril island group too.

But this all is logical given what they need to defend where. Plus, Eastern Command has a crapload of FLANKERs and FOXHOUNDs in the area so they aren't exactly lacking for air defense.

So what SAMs are defending the major military airfields in the region?

I thought there were a few secret bases in the region used for testing... it was mentioned when KAL 007 was shot down.

oil,gas are already being extracted...
potentially many rare minerals too...
japan is posturing, and maybe china.

So what if China and Japan are posturing... what is a SAM site going to do?

They are working on highly mobile forces, which means that if there is a problem in that region a division or two or a couple of brigades would be sent... which presumably would include a few S-300V4 batteries.

sakhalin is a big island and pretty long north-south. im sure that justifies at least some older s-300 battery there which could also cover kuril island group too.

They don't have to protect all of it... just the settlements and air bases and other military installations... for that BUK and TOR will be fine.

sepheronx wrote:I was told by someone that S-300V4 doesn't actually exist as there is no new info about it.

I think that Russian army who ordered the system might disagree with that someone

Anyway another huge AD exercise about to kick off and this time in Central Military District

Teachings of aviation and aerospace defense forces started in Buryatia


The first phase of the doctrine, in which the command of the Air Force and Air Defense District checks readiness of subordinate air units and ASD.


MOSCOW, June 6 - RIA Novosti. joint exercises aviation parts and connections of aerospace defense of the Central Military District (CVO) kicked off on Thursday, the active phase of the event will be held from 21 to 27 June at the site "Telemba" (Buryatia), the press service CVO.

"Today is the first stage of teaching, in which the command of the Air Force and Air Defense District checks the combat readiness of subordinate air units and ASD. Joint exercises brought to the air group" Shagol "(Chelyabinsk region)," Koltsovo "(Sverdlovsk region)," Kansk "(Krasnoyarsk Territory) and the Siberian connection aerospace defense, "- said in a statement. As specified, the pilots and gunners CVO will jointly conduct live firing on the range "Telemba."


"The crews of fighter-interceptor MiG-31BM and crews of anti-aircraft missile systems S-300PS reflect massive missile and air attack conventional enemy, and teplokontrastnymi simulated supersonic targets. Active phase (exercise) will be held from 21 to 27 June," - said in a press release. According to the CVO, the commander of the union activity led the Air Force and Air Defense District, Major General Victor Sevostianov.



LINK

My naimsake is leading the exercises

sepheronx wrote:Is there any evidence the system was orderd? As well, how come we have not seen nor heard anything new of it in a while?

Link does not work anymore.

Anyway Russan Army should be equipped with 9 S-300V4 brigades. Almaz-Antej received orders to make 3 battalions of S-300V4

until 2016.

Existing S-300V will be modernized to S-300V4 standard (4 -5 Brigades) and the difference will be ordered by 2020.

Now this may change a little and Russia might end up with slightly less number of S-300V4 brigades by 2020 but still its double

the number it had up until now.

More to it there are reports (on this topic) about S-300V4 achieving ranges of 350km and is now the longest range SAM in Russian arsenal.

It seems that former Almaz-Antej director (for unknown reason), Igor Ashurbeili, put a great emphasize on S-300V4 development

- even now his name is being called for S-400 delay because S-300V4 has been prioritized.

The Russian newspaper. Russian President Vladimir Putin said that the 2020 Army brigade will have nine air defense S-300.

This informs RIA Novosti reported.



"Only in the Army brigade should arrive 10 missile systems" Iskander-M ', 9 Brigade Army air defense complexes S-300V4, more than 2,3 thousand tanks, about two thousand self-propelled artillery systems and tools, and more than 30,000 units vehicles. also plans to put new systems of communication, management, advanced reconnaissance systems, complexes of individual military equipment ", - Putin said at a meeting on the equipment ground and airborne forces.



SAM family of S-300 is considered one of the most powerful air-defense systems in the world. Currently, S-300 systems are the basis of Russian air defense and ground forces, and successfully sold on the world market. On the basis of S-300 has developed new S-400 system, capable of firing, as the new missiles, and ammunition to use than its predecessor.

http://www.rg.ru/

Almaz-Antey last year receive, I think, about 28 new tracked vehicles for S-300V4, so maybe they are now in process of building or in testing before they will be delivered.

sepheronx wrote:But hardly any info can be found on S-300V4. Heck, did they upgrade the missile to use an ARH rather than SARH? Does it have any IIR system to it? I mean, they can indeed improve the system by upgrade the 9M82M missile with ARH and maybe some sort of IIR subsystem, and newer radar (to work in conjunction with Nebo-SVU AESA radar), but nothing is really said at the moment.

- Who knows what has been done as this is a version that has been developed for Russian army and there is no need to advertise it.

anyway 350km range is confirmed and S-300V4 is now even longer ranged than S-400

- Nebo-M was initially developed to work with Army S-300V (one per regiment should be deployed - same as with S-400)

- guidance is much more complex than SARH (SAGG guidance is applied - version of TVM)

sepheronx wrote:The system could be very effective in deal with Ballistic missiles with such upgrades. But so far, all hearsay.

- From mid 80ies this was the first mobile anti ballistic missile system in the world that could effectively engage ballistic missiles

(and all the rest - fighters/winged missiles/special planes etc) - Americans achieved the same 15 years later while during the same

time S-300V evolved even further and is now being able to cope with 3000+ km range ballistic missiles.

- so this is not a system that could be effective but what has been effective for almost 30 years now and its capabilities have

grown significantly.

Viktor wrote:


Nope, all targets where shoot down.

C-300 hit all targets during exercises near Astrakhan
LINK

The audit will cover the combat calculations designated areas for the purpose of detecting and destroying aircraft and ballistic targets represented a real target. LINK

Actually i reconfirmed the description of targets in your link and yes s-300 did destroy all pishchal targets 6/6 at the same time.
pishcal is this-
http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vvs/mk_rm-5v27a.html
(top speed 900m/s)

ballistic target where it scored 9/11 are this:
http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vvs/mk_rm-96m6m.html
http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vvs/mk_rm-75.html
http://www.rusarmy.com/pvo/pvo_vvs/mk_rm_sinitsa.html

sepheronx wrote:Any links regarding this SAGG guidance system? What makes it more complex?

350KM is great, but wont be better than S-400 when the 40N6 is out in full production.

seeker aided guidance. semi-active but very resistant to jamming and ecm , because missile receives bounced off signal and sends target coordinates to aiming radar via its datalink. if radar doesnt use bounced off signal from target but only data received from missile its -tvm -or track via missile, if it uses both received signals and compares for a composite picture then its seeker aided guidance.
no matter how powerful or large radar is missile is much closer to target at the end of engagement so it gets more accurate data about targets position and its not emmiting so enemy doesnt know where it is exactly so it cant jamm it.
so using sagg if your radar is jammed eg.- the position of target according to aiming radar is not the same as the data received from missile, you can actually know what ECM the enemy is using and automatically use proper ECCM to rectify target data.
and missile position is always known because it is illuminated too like in radio-command.shorter range missiles will have radar beacons in them.

GarryB wrote:

But this all is logical given what they need to defend where. Plus, Eastern Command has a crapload of FLANKERs and FOXHOUNDs in the area so they aren't exactly lacking for air defense.

So what SAMs are defending the major military airfields in the region?

I thought there were a few secret bases in the region used for testing... it was mentioned when KAL 007 was shot down.

S-300PS batteries around the Vladivostok and Komsomolsk area, S-300PS batteries around Petropavlovsk, and S-400 batteries around Nakhodka. S-300V and Buk batteries garrisoned near Vladivostok as well.

The secret testing bases were probably an allusion to the Telemba test/training complex a bit further inland, or some of the weird radar systems they were messing with like STEEL YARD. At that time they could have still been considered in the operational testing phase following installation.

S-300PS is very old SAM system.

Still works though. With S-400s displacing S-300PM batteries around Moscow you might see the PMs start to be deployed to replace PS batteries.

Near Moscow there are only four battalions of the S-400 system.
S-300PM is only about 25 battalion? So Russian air defense system is based on the S-300PS. This systems will soon be withdrawn.

I count 6 S-300PT batteries, 37 S-300PS batteries, and 23 S-300PM batteries. The PMs are deployed around Moscow, St. Petersburg, the Kola peninsula, and a few in Southern Command. PS and PT batteries are everywhere else. The important places have the PMs, which as they get kicked out of Moscow should start replacing PT/PS batteries.

Also bear in mind that my totals are based on what I can locate, there may be more of these out there in areas uncovered with available imagery.

he important places have the PMs, which as they get kicked out of Moscow should start replacing PT/PS batteries.

So Moscow air defence system will have only a few battalions S-400 ? Now is only fou.
Production of the S-400 is going very slowly, and this is expensive system

Was it the PM or PS that received the recent fleet wide upgrade?

TR1 wrote:Was it the PM or PS that received the recent fleet wide upgrade?

S-300PM, they were upgraded to Favorit-S standard. Makes sense, the PS models are older and use older missiles with less service life available.

sepheronix wrote:That did not help me out one bit.

This is how SAGG works, explained using the S-300PM's acquisition and launch process. I posted this here a while ago in the Russian ARMs thread, this version has a few minor changes.

ACQUISITION PHASE

1. Target track data is received by the 30N6. This can come from either a) a 64N6 downlink, b) a 36D6 downlink, c) an EW network downlink, or d) the 30N6 itself acting in its limited search capacity.

2. Battery personnel look at each other, each raising a single eyebrow, the universally recognized signal for "is this guy serious?"

3. Once the target enters engagement range, which is determined by target and/or firing doctrine, target position data gets uploaded to a pair of missiles. This is generated by the 30N6, which begins scanning the sky near the target; this can be especially important if you got track data from a 2D source, as you'll need height (the missing "D") to tell the missile which way to point immediately after launch and accurately guide the missile during midcourse. If you've got multiple missile types in your TELs (the S-300P family is all backwards compatible, so you might have 5V55s and 48N6s), the 30N6 will decide what kind of missile to fire based on ECM presence, target type, etc.

4. The pair of 48N6s are cold-launched, ignite, and head towards the target, briefly inertially guided based on the uploaded target data.

INITIAL FLIGHT

5. After stabilization, the 30N6 acquires the missiles and begins tracking, preparing to deliver guidance commands during midcourse. The target is also intermittently tracked. As an aside, radar capability and missile stabilization time are your major drivers for minimum range. Faster systems and better electronics mean you can get this going quicker, giving a smaller minimum range.

MIDCOURSE PHASE

6. While in-flight, the 30N6 periodically monitors the target and missile positions, uplinking course corrections to the missiles to keep them going in the right direction. This is simply command guidance. From an EW perspective, this is basically ops normal for the 30N6, and doesn't indicate a launch. However, if the S-300PM battery belongs to someone who does not employ the 30N6 in search mode, or keeps them offline until required to hide them from ELINT snoopers directing SEAD/DEAD strikes, 30N6 emissions can obviously indicate an active engagement. Plus, if your RWR/RHAW gear says "30N6 is online that way, and it's scanned our airspace at least once", you're going to take what precautions you can regardless.

TERMINAL PHASE

7. Upon reaching the terminal phase, the seeker in the missile activates. The 30N6 begins painting the target continuously using a narrow beam. At this point you know that you've been fired on, the CW signal from the 30N6 amounting to a "lock on". It's not that your RWR/RHAW gear is ignorant of a "lock on", it's that the SAGG system is delaying true "lock on" until the last possible moment to reduce the target's ability to evade.

8. The missile basically has a modified SARH seeker, and a set of guidance systems. The missile receives reflected energy from the target, and generates guidance commands. Except that these are not acted upon, and are instead downlinked to the 30N6.

9. The 30N6, operating in CW mode, generates its own set of guidance commands based on the reflected energy it receives and the position of the missile it is still tracking.

10. The two sets of guidance commands are compared and used to generate a final set, which is uplinked to the missile for action. The missile then makes the course correction required. Sending the data back and forth might seem like it's making things take longer than it needs to, but the processors in the engagement radar are extremely powerful and the signals are transmitted as EM waves, and therefore travel at light speed anyway.

11. At endgame, the proximity fuze detonates the warhead. The missile airframe executes a roll prior to detonation to align the directional warhead with the target for maximum effect. At the same time, the second missile (forget about him?) does the same thing. Oh, and the missiles are moving at something close to Mach 6, so the time window from terminal phase initiation to warhead detonation is going to be very, very small. Another point for the well-designed SAM system.

12. Airplane confetti. Almaz-Antei and Fakel patent the concept of overkill following the second missile detonating.

13. 30N6 scans the area to ensure the target has been eliminated, this is referred to as shoot-shoot-look: fire two weapons, see if you killed the target.

TVM differs in steps 8-10. In a simpler TVM system, target position data from the missile seeker is sent to the radar, which uses it to generate guidance commands, sending these back up to the missile. TVM is simpler in that you're using the missile as the radar receiver. Downlink the target data, get guidance commands, kill target.

The difference with a TVM weapon and a SAGG weapon is that a SAGG weapon will be more complex as it needs to have smarter guidance systems onboard the missile itself. Both will work fine, both will be accurate. SAGG, however, gives you a lot more EW/ECM/etc. protection as you're essentially continuously comparing two viewpoints of the battlespace to get the most accurate picture. Comparing these viewpoints will allow you to filter out a lot of jamming sources.

So, SAGG is more complicated, but that's a good thing: varying perspectives allow for more efficient flightpaths (more range) and better ECCM characteristics (higher pK). And if you think about it in terms of the target, you aren't sure you've been fired at until step 7.

One of the highly significant aspects of the SAGG guidance method is that it provides high ECCM capability, while at the same time providing for an efficient trajectory-optimized intercept trajectory.

For such optimized trajectories, a knowledge of the missile-to-target distance is required. At the same time, it is known that a radar's range channel has less resistance to jamming than its bearing channels. The SAGG guidance overcomes this problem by using two sets of target bearing information, that from the missile and the one from the fire control radar (eg, 30N6), and the secure missile-to-fire control radar distance information to indirectly generate the missile-to-target distance information via triangulation.

Morpheus Eberhardt