AK-12 Rifle Discussion

Is this a version of AK-12?

George1 wrote:Is this a version of AK-12?

It is the AK-12 dressed up like a fag-gun with shitty Aluminium. God have mercy.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

George1 wrote:Is this a version of AK-12?

It is the AK-12 dressed up like a fag-gun with shitty Aluminium. God have mercy.

Correction: sexy shitty aluminium!!!

Awesome!!!

KoTeMoRe wrote:

George1 wrote:Is this a version of AK-12?

It is the AK-12 dressed up like a fag-gun with shitty Aluminium. God have mercy.

Werent you praising AK-15 for being cheap and effective not long ago? Or was that actually MK-107 or whatever?

sepheronx wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

George1 wrote:Is this a version of AK-12?

It is the AK-12 dressed up like a fag-gun with shitty Aluminium. God have mercy.

Werent you praising AK-15 for being cheap and effective not long ago?  Or was that actually MK-107 or whatever?

THe AK-15 (Saiga MK-E/Mk 107-E) that I was praising is a long stroke + BARS system. This is a long stroke piston system. There's no balance contraption. This here is a mock up of a modernization proposal (one more) that delayed the AK-12 for over 9 months. It's just marketing. The AK-15 was cheap because the biggest fuss was the aluminium upper and full length rail. All the rest was unchanged (magazine, BARS, receiver etc) This is nothing more but an export stunt with a lot of "things". Look at the magazine. It's pure science fiction. The old controls of the AK series are gone.

OK, at first glance I didn't like it. I was going to make a joke about its radar cross section.





But, the more I look at it, the more I like the features.

KoTeMoRe doesn't like the mag, I do. Sure it looks sci-fi but look at the design features, it actually has some thoughtful grip points on the front, and on the back for your thumb. The magazine is polymer, with a sturdy lightweight aluminum frame were it counts. Notice that all the contact points between the receiver and the magazine are metal on metal. A lot of thought went into it, it's not just a pretty feature.

The receiver and dust cover have significantly better machining than the AK-12, hell most rifles for that matter, and the dust cover looks solid enough to mount even large thermal imaging scopes. I'm not used to seeing this kind of work on rifles, this is really top notch design. It actually makes "futuristic" rifles like the SCAR and ARX 160 look like a piece of crap in comparison.

Scar, yes. But ARX 160? Why is that?
Where's magwell btw

Regular wrote:Scar, yes. But ARX 160? Why is that?
Where's magwell btw

It's replace by rail on the trigger. Once you touch the trigger guard with the magazine, you just need to push it up. It won't move on the side.

Regular wrote:Scar, yes. But ARX 160? Why is that?
Where's magwell btw

The ARX 160 is little metal bits floating in a sea of polymer. The problem is a lot of places have plastic rubbing against plastic, or metal rubbing against plastic, like the hinge for the stock. Service rifles have to survive use from numerous soldiers over many years, and these points loosen as the polymer is ground down though contact. Abrasives like sand degrade the contact points even faster. In time, your expensive rifle starts to feel wobbly like a budget AR-15. Obviously, if you plan on replacing rifles every few years this isn't a problem.

I'm more upset about the small charging handle than the lack of a magwell. Magwells are convenient, but you need to be able to operate the rifle while wearing gloves, the tab on the charging handle is practically western.

It's replace by rail on the trigger. Once you touch the trigger guard with the magazine, you just need to push it up. It won't move on the side.

It kind of looks that way.

Anyone have a picture of the AK 12 rifle that the Russian army is going to use?

Zivo wrote:The receiver and dust cover have significantly better machining than the AK-12, hell most rifles for that matter, and the dust cover looks solid enough to mount even large thermal imaging scopes. I'm not used to seeing this kind of work on rifles, this is really top notch design. It actually makes "futuristic" rifles like the SCAR and ARX 160 look like a piece of crap in comparison.

Sure they can make it for a few exemplars, probably using CNC mashines, but how much would it cost to make it this way in large quantities?

Saiga MK-107:

alexZam wrote:АК-15 

Well, that's interesting. I couldn't google up any additional info on it. So, is this now in contention with the AK-12 for procurement by the Russian army, or is it just a kind of lark?

On an american gun forum I subscribe to it had links to the two photos posted here but described them as some students artists/design adaptation of the design to make it look cooler.

I wouldn't take them too seriously. (the images that is...)

I will just leave these here with no comments:

TheArmenian wrote:I will just leave these here with no comments:

Still Belomo PK-1 VM sight on it. There's something about Belomo that CK can't shake.

Garry: It's not students' job, but a "graduating" project, that was done under CK patronage. The picture has hints about the direction of AK rifles (especially with Aluminum parts. The Rifle can be produced as it is. The magazine has been ruled out (although the insert guide system for the magazine isn't new for AK's). Take a look at the AK-12 barrel and the AK-15's. By the way, the current muzzle device is straight out of the AK 103-4.

Arctic_Fox wrote:

Yeah, but did you see the AK12SN





BTW the new bolt on the AK12, it's rumoured to be almost 30% lighter from the previous 74M (which was already lighter than the AKM).

Still hate the damn rifle. Gib AN/AEK pls.

Oh and as I previously stated the NPZ PSU-1/4 (here in its Wolf Performance livery) is going to become the Russian Combat sight for Ratnik. Back in the race guys.





Wallahi Bilahi the Juice did this ;-) .

KoTeMoRe wrote:Yeah, but did you see the AK12SN

It looks like an modernized RPK74

KoTeMoRe wrote:BTW the new bolt on the AK12, it's rumoured to be almost 30% lighter from the previous 74M (which was already lighter than the AKM).

How much reliable do you think it will be compared to an AK74M?

KoTeMoRe wrote:Still hate the damn rifle. Gib AN/AEK pls.

I wish it had a higher fire rate

KoTeMoRe wrote:Oh and as I previously stated the NPZ PSU-1/4 (here in its Wolf Performance livery) is going to become the Russian Combat sight for Ratnik. Back in the race guys.

The logistics and performace of PSU looks outstanding, very suitable for russian army

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Can't wait to see AN and MK107.

How much reliable do you think it will be compared to an AK74M?

A major factor in the reliability of the AK system was the ratio in weight between the bolt and the bolt carrier. In other words the bolt carrier (including the piston rod) weighed x times more than the bolt which gave it excess energy to cycle the action even when dirty.

The AK had a good bolt to carrier ratio... the AK-74 was even better as the bolt was lighter.

If the bolt on the AK12 is lighter then that bodes well for the weight ratio and therefore reliability.

(note I would be worried about reliability if the bolt was heavier and the bolt carrier was lighter as that is the opposite of what you want... of course a lighter bolt carrier is also good in the sense that there is less mass slapping back and forth upsetting the aim of the rifle, but lighter carrier and lighter bolt is all good.)

Lads, will AK-12 ba also firearm for Ratnik 3 (design already underway according to the press) or is there something new planned for the future?

BTW AK-12 is supposed to be able to switch to Grendel 6,5mm - os no new Russian ammo of 6-7 mm planned (like 6x49)?

GarryB wrote:

How much reliable do you think it will be compared to an AK74M?

A major factor in the reliability of the AK system was the ratio in weight between the bolt and the bolt carrier. In other words the bolt carrier (including the piston rod) weighed x times more than the bolt which gave it excess energy to cycle the action even when dirty.

The AK had a good bolt to carrier ratio... the AK-74 was even better as the bolt was lighter.

If the bolt on the AK12 is lighter then that bodes well for the weight ratio and therefore reliability.

(note I would be worried about reliability if the bolt was heavier and the bolt carrier was lighter as that is the opposite of what you want... of course a lighter bolt carrier is also good in the sense that there is less mass slapping back and forth upsetting the aim of the rifle, but lighter carrier and lighter bolt is all good.)

Yup less "stretching" on the system that affects also accuracy.

On unified cartdrige, look closer to the AK12SN like really closer.

Is this AK-12SN?
http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/013138/13138651.jpg
Looks like half baked AK-12

I get error (forbidden) when clicking that link.

sepheronx wrote:I get error (forbidden) when clicking that link.

bandwitch problem, let me reupload



It lacks some features. I was expecting something else, like a groundbreaking improvements over standard rifle and etc.