The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

OMG, fellas, I found out tonight one of my exact mt dna matches' Father & family came from Europe ca 1883 on the SS Moracia to Castle Garden in New York City. Her Father was born in Odessa, Russia. His family home was Grebow, Austria (now in Poland). How about them apples??

Erk wrote:

auslander wrote:

First time ever, I blocked him and his buddy yesterday.

Gee your a late bloomer, I blocked him about 48 hours after signing up!

I think they are from other forums come here to spread misinformation.

For the first time, tonight he reminded me of a certain poster on mpnet.

Erk wrote:

auslander wrote:
First time ever, I blocked him and his buddy yesterday.

Gee your a late bloomer, I blocked him about 48 hours after signing up!

I think they are from other forums come here to spread misinformation.

The trolls that continue posting gibberish, in spite of being continuously voted down, are probably paid to post or forced to post.

Erk wrote:

auslander wrote:

First time ever, I blocked him and his buddy yesterday.

Gee your a late bloomer, I blocked him about 48 hours after signing up!

I think they are from other forums come here to spread misinformation.

I kept him on the Sophia Ignore Trophy for comic relief but he and his second personality Haushofer are getting more prolific with their garbage posts so the personal ban hammer tapped him on his cranial cavity.

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
There is no need for victory. Kiev gets support because its a proxy against Russia.
As long as Russia is perceived as a threat to European ambitions, Kiev will continue to receive support.
Of course, whether it will be enough is another question.

Is a proxy war indeed.. US vs Russia..  And americans will continue backing kiev no matter
what with weapons and mercenaries.. etc.. There is a small little thing however.. called
Economy. Not even Americans can sustain 40 millions Jobless Ukrainians with a failed economy.
Even the Georgian Former president/Pm who hates Russia.. and now governor of Odessa.. told
to the public ,that if.... just IF the Ukrainian Economy do not default..and economy start now growing.. that in 20 years.. from now Ukraine will be on the same economically level ,that
Yakunovych was before he was removed from power. This means that not even the biggest
Russian Georgian Hater have any faith in the Economic future of Ukraine.. the bets are that Ukraine will disband in many parts.. Once its Economy officially defaults ,and the war continue
to the end of year. This means that Americans will be unable to hold Poroshenko in Power any
longer with everyone without a job and energy prices 500% higher and inflation about same.
People will simply will have not even enough money to eat... and this is when the major disaster
will start.. when people go to the streets.. and Riots starts for food.. And Hours Long Lines for bread in Kiev.  Neither US or Kiev ,no matter who is in power will be able to continue a war under such conditions.. and thats when call for independence will start IN Odessa and Kharkiv and many other cities.. No army will go an fight for free.. ie.. if not paid.. and no civilian will
maintain loyalty and patriotism to their nation flag.. if their family is starving ,while Poroshenko and everyone in Power is filthy Rich.

So Russia will take Ukraine without firing a single Shot..  People will Rebel internally against
kiev and Russia will be supplying weapons to them to hold their cities and open new Fronts.

Will Poroshenko and Americans will be able to continue in Control of Ukraine.. if Kharkiv rebel
and takes weapons and declare its independence too and many Ukraine army defect to their side? Not at all.. They will need to seriously weaken their front in eastern ukraine and send thousands of soldiers to kharkiv.. it will only spell disaster for the morale of Ukraine army..and
it will not take long before all People will get really angry against kiev for their quality of life..for their war. And will disband the entire nation.  

What Disbanded the Soviet Union.. was not armies .. but economy collapse..(provoked by the west) they had no money to continue operating the soviet union.. and thats when calls for independence began everywhere. Ukraine will experience a soviet union style collapse but much worse because of the heavy fragmentation of the Nation.. there are 3-4 or more sides ,and Poroshenko will have to flee to America. Russia will declare an emergency UN meeting and with the help of Europe will restore order in Ukraine with a peaceful force and completely Reverse the coup of the americans.. Start new elections .. either for each individual state or for all Ukraine..
Right sector will have also to flee with their money taken away of Ukraine and their american handlers.  And finally democracy will return to Ukraine ,with new relations with Russia.

ANd for the people saying Ukraine is like Syria.. no is not.. Assad have the 70% support of the
government and they fighting mostly Foreign armed mercenaries. Assad does not reject political dialogue.. contrary to Poroshenko. And Syria was a very self independent nation..export food and Oil.. is not a fraticidal war like Ukraine.. but a war against terrorism.. people will fight for
free if the other option is allow ISIS to take control of their cities. so very different thing what
happens in Ukraine vs Syria. Without Economy and without people support ,no nation in the world can continue existing.. it will disband. Money and people support is the spirit of any nation and that allow it to exist. And Poroshenko have neither money ,neither people support.
Only fear of right sector thugs keep nation united.. but sooner or later neither Poroshenko or the ultra nationals will be able to control Ukraine.

The reasons we are given for what happened at Shirokino, a practise withdrawl under fire, added to the post by "kotych" claiming heavy losses and retreat from Shirokino, a message I think he was meant to post to create a mood, then I think a plan failed yesterday. I may be wrong, probably am, but tho armies do conduct tactical training in actual combat, usually against a weaker enemy in a non critical location, to do this against Azov, one of ukrops best formations and at a critical location, and to practise withdrawl, the most risky operation, is rather odd. Another one of those mysterious incidents we will have to wait until after the war to find the truth.

Aleksey Borisovich Mozgovoy was assassinated more than a month ago. As many here of you probably remember, a Ukrainian sabotage group was immediately blamed and of course they apparently managed to get in and out with all of their weapons no problem. Now, after a month has passed, there still doesn't look like there will be any investigation how the ambush could have been so well planned, who knew Mozgovoy's route, etc.

Many have said the assassination was a way to incite anger against the LPR authorities, because Mozgovoy was the only leader who was opposed to the Minsk agreements and re-uniting with Ukraine. And that is true.

Anyway, here's an English article about Mozgovoy's fight against oligarchy "What we owe to Commander Alexey Mozgovoy".
http://rusvesna.su/english/1433371068

Among both Novorossiya and Russian leaders, it was also only Mozgovoy who grasped the connection between Nazism and oligarchy.

Like everything, oligarchy, for which the people are but a commodity and resource to be exploited, also evolves. And, at a certain point, fascism and then even its more vicious, beastly, aggressive, and tyrannical Nazi form is born-an attempt to reset society and mankind back to primordial all-out slavery, brutality and cruelty (so much praised and heralded by Nietzsche).

After Mozgovoy’s removal, which commander or leader is still speaking against oligarchs and for Novorossiya? Obviously, that was the point of his assassination.

Those who ordered Mozgovoy’s death also sought to silence and eliminate his positive program of narodovlastie, building up a new and true people’s republic. Under Surkov’s/Kremlin’s management, the character of people’s republics qua people’s republics has been suppressed and blocked. Mozgovoy was the last notable representative of this political program and ideal.

However, it is Mozgovoy’s program of anti-oligarchic narodovlastie (i.e. power of people), which represents the only possible and viable common base for inspiring and winning the hearts and the minds of the rest of Ukraine.

Thus, eliminating Mozgovoy, the murderers also eliminated or tried to eliminate the one leader who effectively tried and could address and stir the people of Ukraine on the behalf of Novorosssiya. In contrast, under its Minsk’s cunning, Moscow was limiting itself mainly to addressing itself «esteemed Pyotr Alekseyevich» (endearing way of addressing Poroshenko, the leader of the Bandera junta) and «our partners»-the Bandera oligarchs in power.

However, there are some possible signs that, after the Kremlin appears to have come to understand during these last few days that the US plan was all along to handle Putin like Milosevic, Saddam or Qaddafi, the war in Ukrainian might have become «personal.»

Kerch Straight bridge construction site.

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/64304/

Another nail in the coffin of land-bridge theory that is so popular with westronkian crowd on various forums.














Bomb disposal from Kerch Straight (my sea-loving colleagues    ) :

Thank you guys for pointing out to ignore function (foes list), I didn't know this forum had one.

Guss who just got "foed"?

Brilliant, but this will not stick, Crimea was never legally part of Ukraine.

“Neither the Constitution of the RSFSR nor the USSR Constitution authorized the Presidiums of the Supreme Soviets of the RSFSR and the USSR to change the legal status of any autonomous republics within the constituent republics of the Soviet Union,” Deputy Prosecutor General Sabir Kekhlerov said in a response to an official request submitted by the Just Russia Party chairman Sergei Mironov.

In February 1954, the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet issued a decree transferring the Crimean region from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian SSR as a "symbolic gesture," marking the 300th anniversary of Ukraine becoming a part of the Russian Empire. According to the Soviet Constitution the borders of a republic within the Soviet Union could not be redrawn without the agreement of the republic in question. The matter should have been submitted to an open discussion by the Supreme Council of the Russian SSR. Moreover, a referendum should have been conducted to find out the opinion of the residents of the two republics. Nothing of that happened. The Presidium of the Supreme Council gathered for a session on February 19, 1954 — only 13 of 27 members were present. There was no quorum, but the decision was adopted unanimously.

In a region-wide referendum on the peninsula’s future held on March 16, 2014, almost 97 percent of Crimean residents supported reunification with Russia. On March 17, the Supreme Council of Crimea adopted a resolution on Crimea's independence from Ukraine based on the referendum’s results. The parliament also addressed Russia with a proposal to incorporate Crimea into the Russian Federation as a constituent entity.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150627/1023916532.html#ixzz3eGjIIrxQ

Here is a DNR response to Poro's constitutional changes. In three words 'he's a liar'.

MOSCOW, June 27. /TASS/. The statement of Ukraine’s President Pyotr Poroshenko that Kiev has fulfilled the Minsk agreements is a lie, head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic [DPR[ Alexander Zakharchenko said on Saturday.

On Friday, Ukrainian President Pyotr Poroshenko said representatives of Donbass took part in development of amendments to Ukraine’s constitution. "It is very important that Donbass representatives took part in the development of these constitutional amendments. It is very much important politically," he said.

"Kiev has not fulfilled any of the obligations it undertook in Minsk - either referring to ceasefire or to self-government in Donbass, and Poroshenko’s statement is another lie," the Donetsk News Agency quoted head of the Donetsk republic. "As for fixing in the constitution of the law on a special status, it should be only the first step towards settlement of the conflict, but not the final stage." "Poroshenko’s statement that he thus fulfilled the obligations undertaken in Minsk is another bad attempt to veil the breach of those agreements," the republic’s leader said. "Those so to say amendments and legal initiatives have not passed our agreements."

On Friday, Ukraine’s constitutional commission adopted the basic changes to the country’s constitution, which referred to decentralisation. Constitutional reform is an important part of the February 12 comprehensive action plan to fulfil the Minsk accords worked out by leaders of Russia, Ukraine, Germany and France in the search for peace in the embattled eastern Donbass region. A key element of reform is decentralisation of government with respect to the peculiarities of certain areas of Donetsk and Lugansk regions agreed with their representatives, as well as adopting permanent legislation on the special status of certain Donbass areas.

PapaDragon wrote:Kerch Straight bridge construction site.

http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/64304/

Another nail in the coffin of land-bridge theory that is so popular with westronkian crowd on various forums.

And this bridge is long needed and very welcome and I am sure there will be a grand opening ceremony sometime in 2019. Perhaps by then it will be possible to drive from Voronezh to Simferopol by the shortest distance possible on land, 200 km less than a detour via Rostov and Kerch, and never have to travel outside Russian or Novorossiyan territory

Unofficial anthem of the militia.

Flagship Victory wrote:

Vann7 wrote:For example the Governor/PM of lugansk is a Jew

Who? Moskal or Plonitsiky?

Plotnitskiy.

Monarchist wrote:

Flagship Victory wrote:

Vann7 wrote:For example the Governor/PM of lugansk is a Jew

Who? Moskal or Plonitsiky?

Plotnitskiy.

Doens't matter if Plotniskiy is Jewish or not, Plotniskiy is an insurgent. If Poroshenko gets his hands on him, he'll hang him from a 100 foot pole. No government in the world shows any mercy to insurgents. For insurgents, it's either victory or death.

0 Maidan soldiers KIA 5 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraine-today-five-ukrainian-soldiers-wounded-in-donbas-conflict-zone-in-last-day-392180.html

JohninMK wrote:Brilliant, but this will not stick, Crimea was never legally part of Ukraine.

“Neither the Constitution of the RSFSR nor the USSR Constitution authorized the Presidiums of the Supreme Soviets of the RSFSR and the USSR to change the legal status of any autonomous republics within the constituent republics of the Soviet Union,” Deputy Prosecutor General Sabir Kekhlerov said in a response to an official request submitted by the Just Russia Party chairman Sergei Mironov.

In February 1954, the Presidium of the USSR Supreme Soviet issued a decree transferring the Crimean region from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic to the Ukrainian SSR as a "symbolic gesture," marking the 300th anniversary of Ukraine becoming a part of the Russian Empire. According to the Soviet Constitution the borders of a republic within the Soviet Union could not be redrawn without the agreement of the republic in question. The matter should have been submitted to an open discussion by the Supreme Council of the Russian SSR. Moreover, a referendum should have been conducted to find out the opinion of the residents of the two republics. Nothing of that happened. The Presidium of the Supreme Council gathered for a session on February 19, 1954 — only 13 of 27 members were present. There was no quorum, but the decision was adopted unanimously.

In a region-wide referendum on the peninsula’s future held on March 16, 2014, almost 97 percent of Crimean residents supported reunification with Russia. On March 17, the Supreme Council of Crimea adopted a resolution on Crimea's independence from Ukraine based on the referendum’s results. The parliament also addressed Russia with a proposal to incorporate Crimea into the Russian Federation as a constituent entity.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150627/1023916532.html#ixzz3eGjIIrxQ

We've known for years that the entire process was not legal under SSSR laws. Amazingly, The West don't want to hear it. What a surprise.

PapaDragon wrote:
Thank you guys for pointing out to ignore function (foes list), I didn't know this forum had one.

Guss who just got "foed"?

Ain't that a nifty little process? I've know about it for a while but put up with the foolishness from our dual personality boy but finally got tired of him.

Here is an interesting video.

Russia says USSR transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine was illegitimate.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/russian-prosecutor-generals-office-says-decision-on-making-crimea-part-of-soviet-ukraine-in-1954-illegitimate-392175.html

Flagship Victory wrote:Russia says USSR transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine was illegitimate.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/russian-prosecutor-generals-office-says-decision-on-making-crimea-part-of-soviet-ukraine-in-1954-illegitimate-392175.html

Indeed it was. The USSR constitution did not give Khruschev the right to transfer autonomous republics from one SSR to another.
This sort of transfer required due process, including multiple referenda. NATO seems to have a fetish for protecting the BS left behind
by commie dictators. This is especially true in ex-Yugoslavia where Tito fucked over Serbia big time. Krajina was gift to Croatia by
Tito the Croat-Slovene. A case with a clear parallel to Crimea where Ukr Khruschev was giving illegal gifts to his tribe and fucking over
Russians in the process. Just like Krajina, Crimea would have been ethically cleansed of the Russian majority if Russia had not intervened.

Fuck NATO.

So ironic that the Transfer of Crimea was practically illegal and illegitimate, yet the West blames Russia for retracting its' "gift".

Why the United States launched its proxy war against Russia in Ukraine

Ukraine has nothing to do with sovereignty, democracy or (alleged) Russian aggression. That’s all propaganda .

THE UNITED STATES does not want a war with Russia, it simply feels that it has no choice.

If the State Department hadn’t initiated a coup in Ukraine to topple the elected president, Viktor Yanukovych, then the US could not have inserted itself between Russia and the EU, thus, disrupting vital trade routes which were strengthening nations on both continents.

The economic integration of Asia and Europe–including plans for high-speed rail from China (“The New Silk Road”) to the EU–poses a clear and present danger for the US whose share of global GDP continues to shrink and whose significance in the world economy continues to decline.

For the United States to ignore this new rival (EU-Russia) would be the equivalent of throwing in the towel and accepting a future in which the US would face a gradual but persistent erosion of its power and influence in world affairs. No one in Washington is prepared to let that happen, which is why the US launched its proxy-war in Ukraine.

The US wants to separate the continents, “prevent the emergence of a new rival”, install a tollbooth between Europe and Asia, and establish itself as the guarantor of regional security. To that end, the US is rebuilding the Iron Curtain along a thousand mile stretch from the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea. Tanks, armored vehicles and artillery are being sent to the region to reinforce a buffer zone around Europe in order to isolate Russia and to create a staging ground for future US aggression.

Reports of heavy equipment and weapons deployment appear in the media on nearly a daily basis although the news is typically omitted in the US press. A quick review of some of the recent headlines will help readers to grasp the scale of the conflict that is cropping up below the radar:

“US, Bulgaria to hold Balkans military drills”, “NATO Begins Exercises In Black Sea”, “Army to send even more troops, tanks to Europe”, “Poland requests greater US military presence”, “US Army sending armored convoy 1,100 miles through Europe”, “Over 120 US tanks, armored vehicles arrive in Latvia”, “US, Poland to Conduct Missile Exercise in March – Pentagon”
Get the picture? There’s a war going on, a war between the United States and Russia.

Notice how most of the headlines emphasize US involvement, not NATO. In other words, the provocations against Russia originate from Washington not Europe. This is an important point. The EU has supported US-led economic sanctions, but it’s not nearly as supportive of the military build up along the perimeter. That’s Washington’s idea and the cost is borne by the US alone.

Naturally, moving tanks, armored vehicles and artillery around the world is an expensive project, but the US is more than willing to make the sacrifice if it helps to achieve its objectives.

And what are Washington’s objectives?

Interestingly, even political analysts on the far right seem to agree about that point. For example, check out this quote from STRATFOR CEO George Friedman who summed it up in a recent presentation he delivered at The Chicago Council on Foreign Affairs. He said:

“The primordial interest of the United States, over which for centuries we have fought wars–the First, the Second and Cold Wars–has been the relationship between Germany and Russia, because united there, they’re the only force that could threaten us. And to make sure that that doesn’t happen.” … George Friedman at The Chicago Council on Foreign Affairs, Time 1:40 to 1:57)
Bingo. Ukraine has nothing to do with sovereignty, democracy or (alleged) Russian aggression. That’s all propaganda. It’s about power. It’s about imperial expansion. It’s about spheres of influence. It’s about staving off irreversible economic decline.

It’s all part of the smash-mouth, scorched earth, take-no-prisoners geopolitical world in which we live, not the fake Disneyworld created by the western media.

The US State Department and CIA toppled the elected-government in Ukraine and ordered the new junta regime to launch a desperate war of annihilation against its own people in the East, because, well, because they felt they had no other option.

Had Putin’s ambitious plan to create a free trade zone between Lisbon to Vladivostok gone forward, then where would that leave the United States? Out in the cold, that’s where. The US would become an isolated island of dwindling significance whose massive account deficits and ballooning national debt would pave the way for years of brutal restructuring, declining standards of living, runaway inflation and burgeoning social unrest.

Does anyone really believe that Washington would let that to happen when it has a “brand-spanking” trillion dollar war machine at its disposal?

Heck, no. Besides, Washington believes it has a historic right to rule the world, which is what one would expect when the sense of entitlement and hubris reach their terminal phase. Now check out this clip from an article by economist Jack Rasmus at CounterPunch:

“Behind the sanctions is the USA objective of driving Russia out of the European economy. Europe was becoming too integrated and dependent on Russia. Not only its gas and raw materials, but trade relations and money capital flows were deepening on many fronts between Russia and Europe in general prior to the Ukraine crisis that has provided the cover for the introduction of the sanctions. Russia’s growing economic integration with Europe threatened the long term economic interests of US capitalists. Strategically, the US precipitated coup in the Ukraine can be viewed, therefore as a means by which to provoke Russian military intervention, i.e. a necessary event in order to deepen and expand economic sanctions that would ultimately sever the growing economic ties between Europe and Russia long term. That severance in turn would not only ensure US economic interests remain dominant in Europe, but would also open up new opportunities for profit making for US interests in Europe and Ukraine as well…
When the rules of the competition game between capitalists break down altogether, the result is war—i.e. the ultimate form of inter-capitalist competition.”

See? Analysts on the right and left agree. Ukraine has nothing to do with sovereignty, democracy or Russian aggression. It’s plain-old cutthroat geopolitics, where the last man left standing, wins.

The United States cannot allow Russia reap the benefits of its own vast resources. Oh, no. It has to be chastised, it has to be bullied, it has to be sanctioned, isolated, threatened and intimidated. That’s how the system really works. The free market stuff is just horsecrap for the sheeple.

Russia is going to have to deal with chaotic, fratricidal wars on its borders and color-coded regime change turbulence in its capital. It will have to withstand reprisals from its trading partners, attacks on its currency and plots to eviscerate its (oil) revenues. The US will do everything in its power to poison the well, to demonize Putin, to turn Brussels against Moscow, and to sabotage the Russian economy.

Divide and conquer, that’s the ticket. Keep them at each others throats at all times. Sunni vs Shia, one ethnic Ukrainian vs the other, Russians vs Europeans. That’s Washington’s plan, and it’s a plan that never fails.

US powerbrokers are convinced that America’s economic slide can only be arrested by staking a claim in Central Asia, dismembering Russia, encircling China, and quashing all plans for an economically-integrated EU-Asia.

Washington is determined to prevail in this existential conflict, to assert its hegemonic control over the two continents, and to preserve its position as the world’s only superpower.

Flagship Victory wrote:Russia says USSR transfer of Crimea from Russia to Ukraine was illegitimate.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/russian-prosecutor-generals-office-says-decision-on-making-crimea-part-of-soviet-ukraine-in-1954-illegitimate-392175.html

Russia inherited all rights and responsibilities from Soviet Union and thus it makes Russia responsible for illegal transfer of Crimea to Ukraine SSR in 54. It's sanction material here we are talking about