The Situation in the Ukraine. #19

But I do understand these people, especially the young ones, who at least try to enjoy their lives in this terrible situation. Teens and young adults don't want to spend their entire lives sitting in basements. They want to go out to the beach and enjoy the summer and sun even if there is a war going.

It would be a different thing if Russian help was coming. Then they would have something to wait for. But since the help is not coming and all of them know that the war and destruction will continue for decades it makes no sense for them to spend their next 30-40 years in basements. They are willing to take risks even if it means death.

JohninMK wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Preliminary data, and as yet unofficial, shows that in a quarry between the 88th and 5th quarters approximately 230-250 people were on the beach or swimming when hit by ukrops bombardment that lasted for 15-20 minutes. These people were mostly family groups with children. It seems there were about 50 casualties. About deaths or type of wounds is not released yet. Golmovsky has been under constant bombardment and the situation there is believed to be severe.

Shit. They are trying really hard to provoke a response. They are getting more desperate as the finances crumble. I suppose in some ways it is good that many of the decision makers and senior officials in the West are on their summer holidays and don't want anything to happen just now.

No, they are not trying to provoke any response. If they knew that a response was coming they would not do this.

They do this because they know that there will be no repercussions and they will get away with it.

Even if Khepesh's numbers are correct and 50 people (mostly young ones) died on that beach then expect nothing from Russia or the West. There will be no condemnation. There will be no repercussions. The media is not going to say a word about this. Russia will likely give more free coal to Ukraine as a gesture of goodwill. And the junta terror and bombardment will continue.

Even if their finances crumble it will not stop the war. This is not overly expensive for them. They just need to sit still and continue their shelling. They are inflicting heavy civilian losses for Novorossiya while practically suffering no losses themselves at all. It is all fun game for them. And this will continue in 2016, in 2017, in 2018, in 2019, in 2020... Endless shelling, destruction of death while the DPR is not able to fight back because of the Minsk agreement.

what? - where? - how? - firing?

Even if their finances crumble it will not stop the war. This is not overly expensive for them. They just need to sit still and continue their shelling. They are inflicting heavy civilian losses for Novorossiya while practically suffering no losses themselves at all. It is all fun game for them. And this will continue in 2016, in 2017, in 2018, in 2019, in 2020... Endless shelling, destruction of death while the DPR is not able to fight back because of the Minsk agreement.

Maybe RT can make a documentary about these blatant violations by the Ukrops that resulted to the deaths of dozens of civilians before giving Novorossian forces the go signal to strike back and bomb kiev with nukes

Khepesh wrote:what? - where? - how? - firing?

Images like this will not change anything. It is all Russia's and DPR's fault since they let OSCE there. It was known that the OSCE is a pro-Western organization. What do they actually expect from them? Neutrality? Decency? Empathy? They will get none of this.

Kick the OSCE out already!

Project Canada wrote:

Even if their finances crumble it will not stop the war. This is not overly expensive for them. They just need to sit still and continue their shelling. They are inflicting heavy civilian losses for Novorossiya while practically suffering no losses themselves at all. It is all fun game for them. And this will continue in 2016, in 2017, in 2018, in 2019, in 2020... Endless shelling, destruction of death while the DPR is not able to fight back because of the Minsk agreement.

Maybe RT can make a documentary about these blatant violations by the Ukrops that resulted to the deaths of dozens of civilians before giving Novorossian forces the go signal to strike back and bomb kiev with nukes

Yeah, RT should do such a documentary but it would have little or no effect on the actual situation on the ground. And the situation on the ground is all that matters.

I apologise for these swings in figures and should wait until tomorrow when the official toll is released, but the news of one dead and five injured at the quarry may actually be the figures for another incident and the original figure of 50 may still be the real one, according to news from Gorlovka hospital. The quarry was packed and ukrops would have known it would be packed on a Sunday in summer.

PapaDragon wrote:

Agreed, assholes are really getting desperate.

I don't see any desperation from them really. They are probably laughing their asses off while shelling civilians because they know that they can get away with it. It is a fun game for them.

Those who are desperate are the civilians of Gorlovka.

PapaDragon wrote:
NAF should just evacuate civilians they can from all settlements close to the front.  Let ukrops shell empty space.

Russia should take them all since Russia is not willing to help in other ways.

PapaDragon wrote:
Ukrainians are in deep $hit now and we are in the middle of a summer. I bet they looking at calendar in horror as winter approaches. Good.

Expect Russia to help their brotherly nation Ukraine with free coal and gas, if needed. Putin is not going to let thousands of Ukrainians to starve or freeze to death.

PapaDragon wrote:
Next Christmas will be fun time, at this rate cannibalism will be back in vogue in holholland very soon.

Look, Novorossiya is in a far worse situation than any part of Ukraine. No matter what the situation in Ukraine will be it will be worse in Novorossiya.

PapaDragon wrote:
Funny how average sheep in Ukraine are still unaware of what awaits them in several months. They will learn soon enough.  

Do you really expect Ukrainians to starve and freeze to death? No, it will not happen. Novorossiya is another story though.

PapaDragon wrote:
UAF are digging their own grave with each shell they fire.  

How are they digging their own graves? I don't believe such a God exists who will automatically punish every evil-doer for his sins while he lives on this planet. And among us mortals there are no such people who have both the will and ability to punish Ukrainian war criminals. Nobody punished the Iraqi war criminals either, or those who bombed Serbia. It is an unjust world.

Karl Haushofer wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Preliminary data, and as yet unofficial, shows that in a quarry between the 88th and 5th quarters approximately 230-250 people were on the beach or swimming when hit by ukrops bombardment that lasted for 15-20 minutes. These people were mostly family groups with children. It seems there were about 50 casualties. About deaths or type of wounds is not released yet. Golmovsky has been under constant bombardment and the situation there is believed to be severe.

Shit. They are trying really hard to provoke a response. They are getting more desperate as the finances crumble. I suppose in some ways it is good that many of the decision makers and senior officials in the West are on their summer holidays and don't want anything to happen just now.

No, they are not trying to provoke any response. If they knew that a response was coming they would not do this.

They do this because they know that there will be no repercussions and they will get away with it.

Even if Khepesh's numbers are correct and 50 people (mostly young ones) died on that beach then expect nothing from Russia or the West. There will be no condemnation. There will be no repercussions. The media is not going to say a word about this. Russia will likely give more free coal to Ukraine as a gesture of goodwill. And the junta terror and bombardment will continue.

Even if their finances crumble it will not stop the war. This is not overly expensive for them. They just need to sit still and continue their shelling. They are inflicting heavy civilian losses for Novorossiya while practically suffering no losses themselves at all. It is all fun game for them. And this will continue in 2016, in 2017, in 2018, in 2019, in 2020... Endless shelling, destruction of death while the DPR is not able to fight back because of the Minsk agreement.

It's probably safe to say at this point, that DPR/LPR governments are heavily influenced or under direct pressure from Kremlin not to respond.

I can't see a single fucking reason why there couldn't be a strong response attack or at least why the artillery couldn't be put back to the front. The civilian casualties far outweigh any reason, it just doesn't make any sense, there's no benefit for NR staying put and allowing all of these attacks.

Ghoster wrote:

Karl Haushofer wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Preliminary data, and as yet unofficial, shows that in a quarry between the 88th and 5th quarters approximately 230-250 people were on the beach or swimming when hit by ukrops bombardment that lasted for 15-20 minutes. These people were mostly family groups with children. It seems there were about 50 casualties. About deaths or type of wounds is not released yet. Golmovsky has been under constant bombardment and the situation there is believed to be severe.

Shit. They are trying really hard to provoke a response. They are getting more desperate as the finances crumble. I suppose in some ways it is good that many of the decision makers and senior officials in the West are on their summer holidays and don't want anything to happen just now.

No, they are not trying to provoke any response. If they knew that a response was coming they would not do this.

They do this because they know that there will be no repercussions and they will get away with it.

Even if Khepesh's numbers are correct and 50 people (mostly young ones) died on that beach then expect nothing from Russia or the West. There will be no condemnation. There will be no repercussions. The media is not going to say a word about this. Russia will likely give more free coal to Ukraine as a gesture of goodwill. And the junta terror and bombardment will continue.

Even if their finances crumble it will not stop the war. This is not overly expensive for them. They just need to sit still and continue their shelling. They are inflicting heavy civilian losses for Novorossiya while practically suffering no losses themselves at all. It is all fun game for them. And this will continue in 2016, in 2017, in 2018, in 2019, in 2020... Endless shelling, destruction of death while the DPR is not able to fight back because of the Minsk agreement.

It's probably safe to say at this point, that DPR/LPR governments are heavily influenced or under direct pressure from Kremlin not to respond.

I can't see a single fucking reason why there couldn't be a strong response attack or at least why the artillery couldn't be put back to the front. The civilian casualties far outweigh any reason, it just doesn't make any sense, there's no benefit for NR staying put and allowing all of these attacks.

Gradually people here will also lose hope like I have done. There are too many people who still believe that Russia or DPR will push the junta back from Novorossiya. Not going to happen.

Russia has been threatened with such sanctions that Russia cannot afford to act now. This is a waiting game and the ones who suffer the most are the Novorossiyan people.

The West waits that the sanctions and low oil price will force Russia to make more concessions (even to give up Crimea). They also wait that the continuing death and destruction will break the Novorossiyan morale and fighting spirit.

Russia waits.... I don't actually know what Russia is waiting for. It cannot be the economic and social collapse of Ukraine since Russia is helping to prevent that collapse by continuing to provide energy to Ukraine. I don't think Russia even has any plan here, and certainly not any "cunning plan". Maybe Russia is hoping for some miracle from the heavens, I don't know.

1 Maidan soldier KIA and 10 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday by NAF counter fire after they shelled Donetsk yesterday.

Bombardment reported to have stopped, so now it will become clearer what actually happened.

PapaDragon wrote:NAF should just evacuate civilians they can from all settlements close to the front.  Let ukrops shell empty space.

Er, you realize Smerch has range 90 km. All of NAF controlled Donbas all the way to the border with Russia is under range of Maidan shelling. The only way the shelling can stop is if NAF evacuates everyone in NAF controlled Donbas to Russia.

The West waits that the sanctions and low oil price will force Russia to make more concessions (even to give up Crimea). They also wait that the continuing death and destruction will break the Novorossiyan morale and fighting spirit.

lol they are living in a fantasy world if they expect Russia to give in that far, didn't they thought about a nuke exploding in all US cities? Russia should blackmail them and do whatever it takes to bring down the whole world economy if ever it's national security and interests are pushed too far

The situation now is so strange, back in 2008 Russia never hesitated to openly help South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and back then even Republicans are in power in the US! why is Russia holding back now??

Project Canada wrote:

The West waits that the sanctions and low oil price will force Russia to make more concessions (even to give up Crimea). They also wait that the continuing death and destruction will break the Novorossiyan morale and fighting spirit.

lol they are living in a fantasy world if they expect Russia to give in that far, didn't they thought about a nuke exploding in all US cities? Russia should blackmail them and do whatever it takes to bring down the whole world economy if ever it's national security and interests are pushed too far

That is why the quality of Ukraine thread has dropped by a hundredfold, because of a drama queer with alter ego's and some other users that only spread nonsense and even dare to post sources like ukraine today, kiyvpost or other retarded nonsense, followed by constant nonsense talk that does not add anything informative to Ukraine thread...

That is why the quality of Ukraine thread has dropped by a hundredfold, because of a drama queer with alter ego's and some other users that only spread nonsense and even dare to post sources like ukraine today, kiyvpost or other retarded nonsense, followed by constant nonsense talk that does not add anything informative to Ukraine thread...

Sorry I have no intention of derailing the thread or making things OT, is there a thread where these personal views can be properly discussed?
BTW im not Karl or Flagship if you suspect im my account is just an alter ego. I'm not Russian or even European, I am just equally frustrated about the course of events in Ukraine and Russia's inaction in the face of brazen American interference in Russia's backyard. I dont dislike everything American, I just dont like their government. Of course I didn't really mean it when I said nuke American cities, but Russia should at least send a message that things will escalate to dangerous levels if the US continues it's irresponsible actions near Russia's borders

Project Canada wrote:Sorry I have no intention of derailing the thread or making things OT, is there a thread where these personal views can be properly discussed?
BTW im not Karl or Flagship if you suspect im my account is just an alter ego. I'm not Russian or even European, I am just equally frustrated about the course of events in Ukraine and Russia's inaction in the face of brazen American interference in Russia's backyard. I dont dislike everything American, I just dont like their government. Of course I didn't really mean it when I said nuke American cities, but Russia should at least send a message that things will escalate to dangerous levels if the US continues it's irresponsible actions near Russia's borders

You are a fellow Canadian like me Cheer up man, this war is for Putin and the west's entertainment. That's why this war will last thousands of years

Project Canada wrote:
The situation now is so strange, back in 2008 Russia never hesitated to openly help South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and back then even Republicans are in power in the US! why is Russia holding back now??

I have wondered about the same thing too.

The change did not happen in 2008 but in the Geneva meeting of 2014. The Geneva meeting happened after Russia took back Crimea, I think it was in April of 2014?

After that meeting Russia's attitude changed. Before Russia used to be about protecting compatriots abroad, but almost instantly after the Geneva meeting Putin withdrew the law that allowed him to use military force in Ukraine. Remember that the duma had previously granted Putin that authority.

After the Geneva meeting Russia has been mostly silent about what happens to their compatriots in Ukraine. I don't know what happened in Geneva but I think Russia was threatened with something that the Russian leadership took seriously enough to back off.

Flagship Victory wrote:

Project Canada wrote:Sorry I have no intention of derailing the thread or making things OT, is there a thread where these personal views can be properly discussed?
BTW im not Karl or Flagship if you suspect im my account is just an alter ego. I'm not Russian or even European, I am just equally frustrated about the course of events in Ukraine and Russia's inaction in the face of brazen American interference in Russia's backyard. I dont dislike everything American, I just dont like their government. Of course I didn't really mean it when I said nuke American cities, but Russia should at least send a message that things will escalate to dangerous levels if the US continues it's irresponsible actions near Russia's borders

You are a fellow Canadian like me Cheer up man, this war is for us westerners to watch. It won't be over for centuries. Let there be deaths every day

And now I reported you. You are not just a troll, you're also highly insane in the gravest psychological meaning.

Project Canada wrote:

That is why the quality of Ukraine thread has dropped by a hundredfold, because of a drama queer with alter ego's and some other users that only spread nonsense and even dare to post sources like ukraine today, kiyvpost or other retarded nonsense, followed by constant nonsense talk that does not add anything informative to Ukraine thread...

Sorry I have no intention of derailing the thread or making things OT, is there a thread where these personal views can be properly discussed?
BTW im not Karl or Flagship if you suspect im my account is just an alter ego. I'm not Russian or even European, I am just equally frustrated about the course of events in Ukraine and Russia's inaction in the face of brazen American interference in Russia's backyard. I dont dislike everything American, I just dont like their government. Of course I didn't really mean it when I said nuke American cities, but Russia should at least send a message that things will escalate to dangerous levels if the US continues it's irresponsible actions near Russia's borders

People like Flagship and me and Project Canada would LOVE TO BE PROVEN WRONG about Russia and the course it has taken concerning Ukraine.

I would cheer the loudest if Novorossiya was liberated tomorrow and Kiev nazis were pushed back to Dnepr river.

PapaDragon wrote:I would kindly like to ask all rookies to refrain from quoting Flagship Haushofer because it interferes with ignore function.

Ivan the Colorado is the only user qualified enough to quote them/him in professional manner.

Thank you for your cooperation ladies and gentlemen.

You are the big talker. Why don't you stop your big talks and go to Serbia and help get Kosovo back. Did Serbia not surrender to American aerial bombing?

Back to topic

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-turning-economic-basket-case-breadbasket-074220586.html

It think it's foolish to think that Ukraine would magically turn into Europe's breadbasket when most European farmers are having a difficult time selling their produce after Russia's embargo, and besides why would they buy Ukrainian produce instead of their own? There's just too much wishful thinking in this article imo

Project Canada wrote:Back to topic

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-turning-economic-basket-case-breadbasket-074220586.html

It think it's foolish to think that Ukraine would magically turn into Europe's breadbasket when most European farmers are having a difficult time selling their produce after Russia's embargo, and besides why would they buy Ukrainian produce instead of their own? There's just too much wishful thinking in this article imo

This is how the western media works, lies, lies and more lies.