The Situation in the Ukraine. #20

Dforce wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

After a little calculation from Dforce's link, 427/525 members are from Russophobic/NATO member countries. 50 from the US alone, while smaller nations such as Poland get in with 27 members. Makes the 26 Russians look pretty sad really eh?

Try again Dforce.

Try WHAT again? Sending IvanColorado the link he was looking for?

I am not much for bragging, but I think I did just that...

I really don't see why you are hated so much, most of your posting is not that inflammatory.

Although it is a rather gotcha style posting which can get annoying rather quickly.


But atleast your not the laughable cringeworthy autists that went all "you're not welcome here" and "I wish death upon you".

I'll take you over them.

2SPOOKY4U wrote:

Dforce wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

After a little calculation from Dforce's link, 427/525 members are from Russophobic/NATO member countries. 50 from the US alone, while smaller nations such as Poland get in with 27 members. Makes the 26 Russians look pretty sad really eh?

Try again Dforce.

Try WHAT again? Sending IvanColorado the link he was looking for?

I am not much for bragging, but I think I did just that...

I really don't see why you are hated so much, most of your posting is not that inflammatory.

Although it is a rather gotcha style posting which can get annoying rather quickly.


But atleast your not the laughable cringeworthy autists that went all "you're not welcome here" and "I wish death upon you".

I'll take you over them.

You weren't there man, you weren't there!!!

PapaDragon wrote:

You weren't there man, you weren't there!!!

I was not where?

I was very active on mp.net, I remember Big D's "I don't like Russia" statement.

He has more respect from me than those people I mentioned.

His remarks are not that bad in respect to the literal antichrist of butthurt that used to be on these Ukraine threads.

Dforce wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:
Looked all over the web, nothing found. Be nice if the OSCE provided numbers and nationality of the observers. Speaking of which, we should get enough people here to email them about that. Really would help with their transparency as they have very little now. Small chance of it succeeding, but things like this have worked before and it could help keep them more accountable and to be fair to the people suffering in the Donbass.

I guess the state censorship is weaker here in the evil West, because I found what you are looking for:

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/177251?download=true

26 Russians!

Nice job Dforce, I looked everywhere else but without avail. I am currently in Colorado though.

ExBeobachter1987 wrote:

Ivan the Colorado wrote:Of course Novorossiya wants to push VSU forces out of striking range but they are not strong enough. Lesson learned from Debaltsevo when the NAF had to call up some vacationers to finish the job for them because the NAF was in bad shape. I'm sure you have heard the NAF is conducting intensive training for a few months now though. It takes sometime to churn out a quality fighter. The NAF is looking to shove the VSU back in the long term as they certainly are not ready now.

I have to ask: What changed your mind?

Excellent question. I never bothered to read about inside the NAF. Turns out you were right and the NAF has a ton of internal problems. And if it were not for the Russian Armed Forces, Donetsk and Lugansk may have been brutally subjugated as other fallen towns were. Makes me wonder how bad it was on the Ukrop side if they are losing more than the NAF. Fortunely, the NAF is putting effort into fixing this.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

We're speaking about two different things here. The shelling is part of the game now. It's mainly a static show of force, typical "collateral damage" bollocks, with random shelling and dead civilians. That much can't be stopped. It would need a certain commitment that the neighbour doesn't want to see through. However employing CAS or any kind of aircraft for tactical airlift/bombing/recon IS a major escalation in the war program. It's force on force and is premeditate. Therefore opening the usual Pandora box. Cas/AirStrike on NAF? At worst NAF "captures" Tochka's of their own. At best the planes get shot before even delivering their ordinance.  

Yet what you seem to be essentially saying is that Kiev will not use air arm because Kremlin will not like it and things will get bad for Kiev? But what I am saying is when the war begins it is very likely that Kiev junta will be fighting for their lives, is that not already bad, what will they have to loose. When the time comes and a VSN breakthro occurs towards Slavyansk, perhaps Izyum and certainly Berdyansk, and this will, in purely military terms have to happen if all Donetsk and Lugansk are to be liberated, and ykrops are in dissaray, will Kiev even in these circumstances not use it's air force because something "bad" might happen? Is Givi to be sitting in his tank in front of Mariinsky before ukrops use aircraft.

2SPOOKY4U wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

You weren't there man, you weren't there!!!

I was not where?

I was very active on mp.net, I remember Big D's "I don't like Russia" statement.

He has more respect from me than those people I mentioned.

His remarks are not that bad in respect to the literal antichrist of butthurt that used to be on these Ukraine threads.

The implications of that I don't like Russia aren't equivalent to its formulation. It was said so in order to avoid the hammer. His obvious scheme isn't far away from XJ220 and the other morons. It's disruption by any means of the discussion. "NAF built it out of lego" comment was case to the point. Bar some people for various reasons, we know that there's direct support from Russia. We know this. The extent is debatable, but not the core. We are to the point that a sovereign state is using SRBM's againt a part of its own people, in what is called CTO. I don't think some of you understand this. I see much cheer leading for bloodshed. At least kind of. And while I might be guilty of seeing this as a straight out war, it shouldn't be treated as such. It's a civil war and has huge implications for the people under fire. What people like Dforce and the exact counterpart on the Anti-Ukrop side do is that they completely trivialize what is happening and do exactly what the supposedly pro-Democracy guys accuse Russia of doing. IE make out of this a showdown with Russia without a gram of compassion for the civilians. That logic enables people like Dforce or Flagship to pontificate on their anti-whatever sentiment (although with Dforce we know it's simply anti-Russia, we have yet to find the exact extent of the opposition when it comes to Flagship Haushauffer.)

Take his recent views on the Gulf of Tonkin "incident". It's ignorance and prejudice in a shaker. The more I explain how it works, the less people tend to realize that there's nothing useful about his input. On every point he's behind the curve and serves at best as a drum box. If you want to have some tea with him, why not. If you find him better than people who ONCE said what they thought about him, then you have a serious problem, since I personally am of the same advice like sektor, he isn't welcomed, just tolerated. I find garbage far more irritating than lunacy. But you're entitled to your opinion.

Khepesh wrote:Yet what you seem to be essentially saying is that Kiev will not use air arm because Kremlin will not like it and things will get bad for Kiev? But what I am saying is when the war begins it is very likely that Kiev junta will be fighting for their lives, is that not already bad, what will they have to loose. When the time comes and a VSN breakthro occurs towards Slavyansk, perhaps Izyum and certainly Berdyansk, and this will, in purely military terms have to happen if all Donetsk and Lugansk are to be liberated, and ykrops are in dissaray, will not Kiev even then use it's air force because something "bad" might happen? Is Givi to be sitting in his tank in front of Mariinsky before ukrops use aircraft.

There's no chance in hell Ukraine's leadership thinks it's going down Untergang style. They know it, you know it, I know it. The conditions which would see Ukraine get rid of its top filth aren't met yet and will not be met under the current Russian support scheme for NAF. IF the VSN breaks through, then UA AF planes are useless already, given the absolute abysmal communication level and the lack of coordination from UA. They will end up bombing their own, if the CAS really comes from Ukraine. Furthermore as I said, the only possibility to engage the NAF with airpower would be at the beginning of the offensive or counter offensive, not  while NAF has broken through. The idea here is that Ukraine might claim they're fending off attacks, but the reality doesn't match. Especially since BUK's and Tor's can cover the whole AO without much issue. If NAF makes a run for Krammatorsk or Slaviansk  which is leaps and bounds from the current operational pace, then something has gone awry. And that's between Moscow and somewhere else but Kiev. But that would mean, that the little Voentorg charade is over and Russia is going through.

Production of chocolate and related food-related stuffs contain cocoa decreased nearly 30%... now dunno whether Porkie may dislike this.

https://eadaily.com/news/2015/08/19/na-ukraine-na-chetvert-upalo-proizvodstvo-shokolada-sokov-i-konservirovannyh-ovoshchey

Sweet biscuits and wafers decreased 23.5%. Juice blends decreased 21.2%. Canned vegi decreased nearly 40%.

Kolomoysky owned TV channel "1+1" showed a government meeting, where Yatsenyuk sensationally responded to the statement of a minister that “we have to live in this country.” He blurted out: “Ukraine is not my historical homeland and I don’t intend to live here.”


According to the channel, the prime minister frankly stated at a cabinet meeting that “after resignation he will immediately leave the country,” and journalists have noted that he “has increasingly begun to show signs of hysteria and apparently intends to prematurely resign.”

http://fortruss.blogspot.com/2015/08/yatsenyuk-will-flee-ruins-of-ukraine.html


Could be Kolomoysky making it up.

Erk wrote:Could be Kolomoysky making it up.

Given the political and social climate in Kiev nowadays sounds logical.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

There's no chance in hell Ukraine's leadership thinks it's going down Untergang style. They know it, you know it, I know it. The conditions which would see Ukraine get rid of its top filth aren't met yet and will not be met under the current Russian support scheme for NAF. IF the VSN breaks through, then UA AF planes are useless already, given the absolute abysmal communication level and the lack of coordination from UA. They will end up bombing their own, if the CAS really comes from Ukraine. Furthermore as I said, the only possibility to engage the NAF with airpower would be at the beginning of the offensive or counter offensive, not  while NAF has broken through. The idea here is that Ukraine might claim they're fending off attacks, but the reality doesn't match. Especially since BUK's and Tor's can cover the whole AO without much issue. If NAF makes a run for Krammatorsk or Slaviansk  which is leaps and bounds from the current operational pace, then something has gone awry. And that's between Moscow and somewhere else but Kiev. But that would mean, that the little Voentorg charade is over and Russia is going through.

I was using an example, not laying out some rigid mathematical formulae to be minutely checked for crossed t and dotted i.... Anyway, I am glad that you are so certain that Kiev will not use it's airforce. We will see in the war.
And "cheerleaders for bloodshed" when residents of the cities sit in basement, well, perhaps look at local Donbass forums, Russian military forums and any of the many groups that support Novorossiya, and use such a phrase in those places against any who suggest that something be done to push back ukrops artillery.

Khepesh wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

There's no chance in hell Ukraine's leadership thinks it's going down Untergang style. They know it, you know it, I know it. The conditions which would see Ukraine get rid of its top filth aren't met yet and will not be met under the current Russian support scheme for NAF. IF the VSN breaks through, then UA AF planes are useless already, given the absolute abysmal communication level and the lack of coordination from UA. They will end up bombing their own, if the CAS really comes from Ukraine. Furthermore as I said, the only possibility to engage the NAF with airpower would be at the beginning of the offensive or counter offensive, not  while NAF has broken through. The idea here is that Ukraine might claim they're fending off attacks, but the reality doesn't match. Especially since BUK's and Tor's can cover the whole AO without much issue. If NAF makes a run for Krammatorsk or Slaviansk  which is leaps and bounds from the current operational pace, then something has gone awry. And that's between Moscow and somewhere else but Kiev. But that would mean, that the little Voentorg charade is over and Russia is going through.

I was using an example, not laying out some rigid mathematical formulae to be minutely checked for crossed t and dotted i.... Anyway, I am glad that you are so certain that Kiev will not use it's airforce. We will see in the war.
And "cheerleaders for bloodshed" when residents of the cities sit in basement, well, perhaps look at local Donbass forums, Russian military forums and any of the many groups that support Novorossiya, and use such a phrase in those places against any who suggest that something be done to push back ukrops artillery.

The cheerleaders for bloodshed wasn't aimed at you Khepesh. For a simple reason. You've advocated a definitive solution right away from what I remember since this whole mess started. I'm speaking about people like Flagship whose ideas are basically let's make war and see how it pans out.

Edit: I agree that the fact UA leadership has been incompetent so far would make your point of view more in line with how the people in Kiev might react. However, this time around they've gone through the same paces as they've done every single time before. I'm not sure about it, that's how I'd think about it, since every time UA has had a trump card, that card has been taken away in flamboyant fashion.

Am I the only one who thinks it's become too quiet the past few days? Is this the infamous "silence before the storm"? I have the impression that perhaps the VSU were indeed trying to test NAF's reaction time and try to pin point their formations. Call it intelligence-by-artillery. Just like the "razvedka boem" doctrine.

Khepesh wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

There's no chance in hell Ukraine's leadership thinks it's going down Untergang style. They know it, you know it, I know it. The conditions which would see Ukraine get rid of its top filth aren't met yet and will not be met under the current Russian support scheme for NAF. IF the VSN breaks through, then UA AF planes are useless already, given the absolute abysmal communication level and the lack of coordination from UA. They will end up bombing their own, if the CAS really comes from Ukraine. Furthermore as I said, the only possibility to engage the NAF with airpower would be at the beginning of the offensive or counter offensive, not  while NAF has broken through. The idea here is that Ukraine might claim they're fending off attacks, but the reality doesn't match. Especially since BUK's and Tor's can cover the whole AO without much issue. If NAF makes a run for Krammatorsk or Slaviansk  which is leaps and bounds from the current operational pace, then something has gone awry. And that's between Moscow and somewhere else but Kiev. But that would mean, that the little Voentorg charade is over and Russia is going through.

I was using an example, not laying out some rigid mathematical formulae to be minutely checked for crossed t and dotted i.... Anyway, I am glad that you are so certain that Kiev will not use it's airforce. We will see in the war.
And "cheerleaders for bloodshed" when residents of the cities sit in basement, well, perhaps look at local Donbass forums, Russian military forums and any of the many groups that support Novorossiya, and use such a phrase in those places against any who suggest that something be done to push back ukrops artillery.

South Front reported Kiev aircraft today.

Putin flies into Sevastopol today, lands by offices of "Voice of Sevastopol", perhaps to arrest Boris Rozhin for banning Kremlyadi making comments on his blog, or to apologise for not invading Ukraine yet
@KoTeMoRe, this is understood

http://cassad.net/tv/videos/12116/

Khepesh wrote:Putin flies into Sevastopol today, lands by offices of "Voice of Sevastopol", perhaps to arrest Boris Rozhin for banning Kremlyadi making comments on his blog, or to apologise for not invading Ukraine yet
@KoTeMoRe, this is understood

http://cassad.net/tv/videos/12116/

The office of Voice of Sevastopol?? Putin himself? What I would give to be a fly on the wall during that visit.

gregoire wrote:

The office of Voice of Sevastopol?? Putin himself? What I would give to be a fly on the wall during that visit.

Oh, he just landed near the office, not a visit as Rozhin is not that important and powerful, yet.....

2SPOOKY4U wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

You weren't there man, you weren't there!!!

I was not where?

I was very active on mp.net, I remember Big D's "I don't like Russia" statement.

He has more respect from me than those people I mentioned.

His remarks are not that bad in respect to the literal antichrist of butthurt that used to be on these Ukraine threads.

Wow, just once you forget to add emoticon at the end of a post and everyone goes dead serious.

And all this time I thought I was overusing emoticons.

Lesson learned!!!

Jaha and now the OSCE are reporting that ukrainian troops are interfering eith their work in donbass.

Seems they have had a brain transplant this week, this sudden ability to hear and see things that they have somehow missed over the past 12 months is too concerted to be a coincidence.

Is this a warning sign to kiev to back off, that the west wont support a new offensive?

From Novorossiya Novosti http://novorossiya.name/v-krasnoarmeyske-sozhgli-voyenkomat/

Today in Krasnoarmeisk the ukrops recruiting office was firebombed


Also today an IED was left at the offices of political activists, they mean PS, in Kremenchug


And the site of Lvov administration was hacked and a photo of Putin inserted on the front page


They also report about an attack on a memorial in the Polish village of Vezhbitsa [Wierzbica] to UPA. An epic attack by one man. http://novorossiya.name/v-polshe-snesli-pamyatnik-banderovtsam/

Neutrality wrote:Am I the only one who thinks it's become too quiet the past few days? Is this the infamous "silence before the storm"? I have the impression that perhaps the VSU were indeed trying to test NAF's reaction time and try to pin point their formations. Call it intelligence-by-artillery. Just like the "razvedka boem" doctrine.

No you're not the only one, I find it extremely weird as well.

It is clear that ukrops are losing their sh*t even faster than we expected. This will we/won't we military ''strategy'' they been sticking to lately indicates that they simply don't have a clue what to do and are secretly hoping for some deus ex machina to save them from collapse.

UAF must knows by now that their role in all this has become that of sacrificial pig. Probably why their bosses hesitate to order offensive.

Whatever it may be, time is running out for them.

Kiev has to make a choice. Either summer party in Donbass or Christmas party in Kiev.

And one of those two options is rapidly reaching it's expiration date.

Neutrality wrote:Am I the only one who thinks it's become too quiet the past few days? Is this the infamous "silence before the storm"? I have the impression that perhaps the VSU were indeed trying to test NAF's reaction time and try to pin point their formations. Call it intelligence-by-artillery. Just like the "razvedka boem" doctrine.

Well, the long anticipated Ukrainian offensive needs to start soon; we do not want esteemed members of this board look llike they have been spreading hysteria.

[quote="PapaDragon"]

Neutrality wrote:
Whatever it may be, time is running out for them.

Kiev has to make a choice. Either summer party in Donbass or Christmas party in Kiev.

Yes yes, and let us throw in some "Winter is coming" as well to be on the sure side.

Only problem is that I heard all this last year as well, and there is just one answer to all this: Niether Ukraine nor Russia will fall apart unless something major happens. To think that either country will is just wishful thinking on either side.

Well, the long anticipated Ukrainian offensive needs to start soon; we do not want esteemed members of this board look llike they have been spreading hysteria.

Yes yes, and let us throw in some "Winter is coming" as well to be on the sure side.

Only problem is that I heard all this last year as well, and there is just one answer to all this: Niether Ukraine nor Russia will fall apart unless something major happens. To think that either country will is just wishful thinking on either side.

Nice try by adding Russia to the "falling apart" thing. This is what I mean. You post unrelated bullshit to the subject at hand with the sole purpose to derail a decent discussion. It's a clear definition of trolling. So humor me, which country is closer to falling apart, Ukraine or Russia?

Also, hysteria spreading? I remember clearly how you and your MP.net friends were cheerful about the conflict ending soon because Kiev was -this- close to taking Donetsk and Lugansk. Boy, your butt must still hurt when your wish didn't come out. According to Sputnik there are close to 65,000 VSU troops stationed near Donbass. We've heard enough about rotations and building up of artillery and tanks near the frontline. So tell me oh wise one, what is this for?

Neutrality wrote:

Well, the long anticipated Ukrainian offensive needs to start soon; we do not want esteemed members of this board look llike they have been spreading hysteria.

Yes yes, and let us throw in some "Winter is coming" as well to be on the sure side.

Only problem is that I heard all this last year as well, and there is just one answer to all this: Niether Ukraine nor Russia will fall apart unless something major happens. To think that either country will is just wishful thinking on either side.

Nice try by adding Russia to the "falling apart" thing. This is what I mean. You post unrelated bullshit to the subject at hand with the sole purpose to derail a decent discussion. It's a clear definition of trolling. So humor me, which country is closer to falling apart, Ukraine or Russia?

Also, hysteria spreading? I remember clearly how you and your MP.net friends were cheerful about the conflict ending soon because Kiev was -this- close to taking Donetsk and Lugansk. Boy, your butt must still hurt when your wish didn't come out. According to Sputnik there are close to 65,000 VSU troops stationed near Donbass. We've heard enough about rotations and building up of artillery and  tanks near the frontline. So tell me oh wise one, what is this for?

Ukraine is a failed state as it is. The fact they don't dissolve, doesn't change anything from it. Add one more year of inflation and recession and we'll talk? So far Ukraine can hold on because no one is asking anything from it. Ukraine has even the luxury to take on the creditors the way Greeks would only dream about.

Khepesh wrote:

gregoire wrote:

The office of Voice of Sevastopol?? Putin himself? What I would give to be a fly on the wall during that visit.

Oh, he just landed near the office, not a visit as Rozhin is not that important and powerful, yet.....

LOL. That's what I thought after writing my post but I decided to keep it because I liked the surprise I felt.