The Situation in the Ukraine. #22

JohninMK wrote:Desperate need makes strange bedfellows.

Ukraine is buying 40,000 tons of coal a day from the separatists, a Kiev-based newspaper wrote, citing a government report on the purchase of coal in territories of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions that remain out of control of the Kiev authorities.

“All our anthracite coal is coming from the uncontrolled territories… The mines are all there and we are still able to get it from there,” Korrespondent newspaper quoted Energy and Coal Minister Oleksandr Svetelik as saying on Saturday.

Svetelik added that nearly as much coal was coming from Donbass areas, controlled by the government. The minister said that buying coal abroad now made no sense as the price of imported coal was almost twice that of the domestically produced coal. He also said that before November 1 Ukraine planned to store up 3.2 million tons of coal it needed for the winter season.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151018/1028698549/ukraine-coal-minister.html#ixzz3ouzyn7Vl

Where would Kiev get money to buy coal from?

Erk wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Desperate need makes strange bedfellows.

Ukraine is buying 40,000 tons of coal a day from the separatists, a Kiev-based newspaper wrote, citing a government report on the purchase of coal in territories of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions that remain out of control of the Kiev authorities.

“All our anthracite coal is coming from the uncontrolled territories… The mines are all there and we are still able to get it from there,” Korrespondent newspaper quoted Energy and Coal Minister Oleksandr Svetelik as saying on Saturday.

Svetelik added that nearly as much coal was coming from Donbass areas, controlled by the government. The minister said that buying coal abroad now made no sense as the price of imported coal was almost twice that of the domestically produced coal. He also said that before November 1 Ukraine planned to store up 3.2 million tons of coal it needed for the winter season.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151018/1028698549/ukraine-coal-minister.html#ixzz3ouzyn7Vl

Where would Kiev get money to buy coal from?

Well ton of raw "wet" coal shouldnt be more than 60-70USD, and since its essential for them they are buying it for cash maybe even.

Militarov wrote:

Godric wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Erk wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

auslander wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:Obvious agitprop is obvious. UK delegation to the OSCE claims that Russia is illegally supplying TOS-1 thermobaric flamerthrowers, to Novo forces in Novo controlled Khruhlyk....but there's one huge problem! Take a look at the photo of evidence of alleged illegality...notice something?

...Take a close look at the billboard behind the TOS-1. There's a billboard with a group photo of a family of adults and children on it, and to the upper left corner of them is a coat of arms that is a blue shield, with a yellow diamond containing a green tent. Take a closer look....Does that look familiar yet?


That's right, they're accusing Russia of illegally delivering TOS-1 flame throwers to Novo forces in Khruhlyk, Ukraine........By using a photo of TOS-1 taken in Russia ....and not just anywhere in Russia, but Moscow of all places ...The Khoroshyovsky District LMAO!!! These propagandists are getting sloppy as f*ck lol!!!

I don't see a claim in either the post or on BBC that the photo in the post is of the actual unit. This was reported, as we know, a few days ago sans photo, the comments were generally 'where's the photo' and such. I state again, unless OSCE produces an actual, current and verifiable photo of the actual unit in the training area, then they are spouting bovine scatology as usual.  

The item seems to have disappeared almost without trace now here in the UK. As you say, no photo no believe. I suppose all the OECD people have still got their 6310 phones and no-one even has a camera phone, let alone a smartphone. Think how much more powerful their press release would have been with a piccy!

I am surprised there are many TOS-1 around, they didn't make that many of them. Quite short range I believe.

From what i know actually biggest operator is Azerbaijan they bought 18 or so. Russia has 16, Iraq has 4, Kazakhstan has 4 most likely and that is about that at this moment.

as far as I know Russia is developing a newer version with 10km range a improvement from the 6km range of the Tos-1A and more powerful  thermobaric warheads

Idk about that, i am aware they are planning to place TOS like system on T14 chasis i think some people around the Internet dubbed it as TOS2 or BM2.

It was mentioned here as "Боевая машина тяжелой огнеметной системы ТОС БМ-2 (замена всем известным ТОС-1 «Буратино» и ТОС-1А «Солнцепек»);" - http://vz.ru/society/2013/9/26/652197.html

Its performance or anything else for that matter i do not know.

is Russia not meant to be also developing a new Terminator variant based on the T-14 chassis ??

Godric wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Godric wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Erk wrote:

JohninMK wrote:

auslander wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:Obvious agitprop is obvious. UK delegation to the OSCE claims that Russia is illegally supplying TOS-1 thermobaric flamerthrowers, to Novo forces in Novo controlled Khruhlyk....but there's one huge problem! Take a look at the photo of evidence of alleged illegality...notice something?

...Take a close look at the billboard behind the TOS-1. There's a billboard with a group photo of a family of adults and children on it, and to the upper left corner of them is a coat of arms that is a blue shield, with a yellow diamond containing a green tent. Take a closer look....Does that look familiar yet?


That's right, they're accusing Russia of illegally delivering TOS-1 flame throwers to Novo forces in Khruhlyk, Ukraine........By using a photo of TOS-1 taken in Russia ....and not just anywhere in Russia, but Moscow of all places ...The Khoroshyovsky District LMAO!!! These propagandists are getting sloppy as f*ck lol!!!

I don't see a claim in either the post or on BBC that the photo in the post is of the actual unit. This was reported, as we know, a few days ago sans photo, the comments were generally 'where's the photo' and such. I state again, unless OSCE produces an actual, current and verifiable photo of the actual unit in the training area, then they are spouting bovine scatology as usual.  

The item seems to have disappeared almost without trace now here in the UK. As you say, no photo no believe. I suppose all the OECD people have still got their 6310 phones and no-one even has a camera phone, let alone a smartphone. Think how much more powerful their press release would have been with a piccy!

I am surprised there are many TOS-1 around, they didn't make that many of them. Quite short range I believe.

From what i know actually biggest operator is Azerbaijan they bought 18 or so. Russia has 16, Iraq has 4, Kazakhstan has 4 most likely and that is about that at this moment.

as far as I know Russia is developing a newer version with 10km range a improvement from the 6km range of the Tos-1A and more powerful  thermobaric warheads

Idk about that, i am aware they are planning to place TOS like system on T14 chasis i think some people around the Internet dubbed it as TOS2 or BM2.

It was mentioned here as "Боевая машина тяжелой огнеметной системы ТОС БМ-2 (замена всем известным ТОС-1 «Буратино» и ТОС-1А «Солнцепек»);" - http://vz.ru/society/2013/9/26/652197.html

Its performance or anything else for that matter i do not know.

is Russia not meant to be also developing a new Terminator variant based on the T-14 chassis ??

Not sure about that, i guess T15 filled that spot in future tank divisions, but maybe you never know. Its armed with cannon, machine gun, ATGMs, can follow tanks, is heavily armored, can carry infantry squad... no need for separate platform for that imo now.

Novorossiya News (#41) (Eng subs) War and Peace in Lugansk -



It says that President of Ukraine, Poroshenko, is in Odessa giving a speech and that he's drunk.

Militarov wrote:

Erk wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Desperate need makes strange bedfellows.

Ukraine is buying 40,000 tons of coal a day from the separatists, a Kiev-based newspaper wrote, citing a government report on the purchase of coal in territories of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions that remain out of control of the Kiev authorities.

“All our anthracite coal is coming from the uncontrolled territories… The mines are all there and we are still able to get it from there,” Korrespondent newspaper quoted Energy and Coal Minister Oleksandr Svetelik as saying on Saturday.

Svetelik added that nearly as much coal was coming from Donbass areas, controlled by the government. The minister said that buying coal abroad now made no sense as the price of imported coal was almost twice that of the domestically produced coal. He also said that before November 1 Ukraine planned to store up 3.2 million tons of coal it needed for the winter season.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151018/1028698549/ukraine-coal-minister.html#ixzz3ouzyn7Vl

Where would Kiev get money to buy coal from?

Well ton of raw "wet" coal shouldnt be more than 60-70USD, and since its essential for them they are buying it for cash maybe even.

Probably bartered for something. I remember that DNR wanted spare parts and lubricants for their rolling stock.

The 'evidence' of it being a Buk attack on MH-17 apparently looks flimsier and flimsier the deeper you look at it. John Helmer has been at it again. This is an excerpt from his Friday posting. These Aussie cops are really putting their heads above the pulpit. Before that in the article he really goes for the 'Buk' bits. Well worth the read and I would say Kiev are a long way from being off the hook.

The inconclusiveness on the part of the Dutch officials has been clarified by officers of the Australian Federal Police (AFP) who were assigned to both the victim identification process and to the forensic operations of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) of Dutch, Ukrainian, Malaysian, Belgian and Australian investigators. For more details of the Australian participation in the JIT, read this. A Dutch spokesman for the JIT said just hours before the DSB released its report that no report on the criminal evidence is scheduled in the next four months; and it is “still too early for any final conclusion.”

On October 11 and 12 the AFP released direct interviews and a video clip in which officers who had worked at the crash scene in Ukraine and at the autopsies and forensic analysis in The Netherlands criticize the version of the crash publicly promoted by the former Australian Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, and the current Foreign Minister, Julie Bishop. An AFP source confirmed yesterday that the material published this week by a Sydney newspaper has been authorized. Four AFP officers were confirmed by the source as participating in the official information release: Detective Superintendent Andrew Donoghoe, who has headed the AFP team in The Netherlands for two tours over the fifteen months since the crash; Senior Sergeant Rod Anderson who is still serving in The Netherlands; Dr Simon Walsh, the AFP’s chief forensic scientist and head of the agency’s disaster victim identification (DVI) team; and Dr Sarah Benson, who succeeded Walsh in The Netherlands. Benson has a PhD in chemical criminalistics. Detective Sergeant John Giles has also been confirmed as participating “at the head of the Australian line” during the body identification and autopsy process.

Source: http://media.smh.com.au/video-news/video-world-news/afp-forensics-team-at-work-in-the-hague-6892745.html

In their presentation of what they saw, did, and have concluded, the AFP officers are now saying they have no evidence the Novorussians at the crash scene either claimed responsibility for the shoot-down; or acted improperly to withhold or manipulate the crash scene evidence; or stole the victims’ belongings. The AFP is also expressing its “irritation” at public claims of the cause of the crash and the conduct of the Novorussians by the Australian Prime Minister at the time, Tony Abbott. In their presentation to the media, the Australian officers “go out of their way to acknowledge and to defend the humanity of the Ukrainian rebels who were accused of bringing down the aircraft.”

In an unprecedented declaration of its independence from the Australian Government, the AFP’s official version of the investigation of the MH17 crash and the ongoing investigation in Holland has appeared in two reports released this week by a local newspaper — the first on October 11; the second on October 12. No police, prosecutors, or forensic investigators from any of the other national teams working on the MH17 case in Ukraine and The Netherlands have said so much on the record. The only Dutch pathologist to make a public reference to the evidence, Dr George Maat, was fired by the Dutch government for doing so. For Maat’s case, read this.

http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14322

Helmer has done another post, this time specifically on the Buk. My highlights and the contents of the first I have not noticed in any previous comment.

Almaz-Antei has reported several times in public this week that the 9N314M warhead cannot be operated from the 9M38 missile series. The two cannot be connected electronically, according to the missile manufacturer. In addition, Almaz-Antei has confirmed that in the warhead types containing the distinctive shrapnel — the Russians are calling this “I-beam”, the Dutch “bowties” and “butterflies” — there are approximately 7,800 elements in total. Of this number, not less than a third, or 2,600 fragments, are of the bowtie type, again according to the manufacturer. If the DSB and its consultant analysts are all telling the truth, the identification of just three in the cockpit crew’s bodies, and one other fragment in the cockpit wreckage, is inexplicable. Almaz-Antei says its computer modelling, as well as its physical blast simulation, make this impossible.

NLR cites Almaz-Antei in its report for a description of the characteristics of Buk missile models, warhead types, and shrapnel composition of the warheads. This is NLR’s tabulation of what it claims to have been the combinations:

.........................................

Asked today to explain how the evidence of Almaz-Antei that the missile model and the warhead type cannot be combined operationally and fired together, Venema said NLR is prohibited from answering questions by an agreement with the DSB.
......................

A third Dutch report by the Netherlands Organization for Applied Scientific Research (TNO), a semi-government operation, has been published as an appendix to the main DSB dossier. The TNO claims it simulated the missile warhead detonation against a Boeing airframe by computer modelling, according to a programme called AUTODYN version 14.5. TNO reports that “in consultation with the DSB, the modelled warhead is type 9N314.” No explanation for selecting that warhead has been provided by TNO.
............

In addition to the DSB “consultation”, the TNO reports (page 3) “this study uses classified data as described in the Wet Bescherming Staatsgeheimen [State Secrets Protection Act] . The text of this report has been inspected and released for publication by the Netherlands Ministry of Defence”. A footnote to a description of the warhead at the end of the TNO report cites “Jane’s Defence Land-Based Air Defence 2009-2010, 22nd edition.” In short, the only sources for TNO’s conclusions about a Buk missile warhead blast is a NATO military secret, plus a five-year old commercial publication from London.

http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14340#more-14340

JohninMK wrote:Helmer has done another post, this time specifically on the Buk. My highlights and the contents of the first I have not noticed in any previous comment.

Almaz-Antei has reported several times in public this week that the 9N314M warhead cannot be operated from the 9M38 missile series. The two cannot be connected electronically, according to the missile manufacturer. In addition, Almaz-Antei has confirmed that in the warhead types containing the distinctive shrapnel — the Russians are calling this “I-beam”, the Dutch “bowties” and “butterflies” — there are approximately 7,800 elements in total. Of this number, not less than a third, or 2,600 fragments, are of the bowtie type, again according to the manufacturer. If the DSB and its consultant analysts are all telling the truth, the identification of just three in the cockpit crew’s bodies, and one other fragment in the cockpit wreckage, is inexplicable. Almaz-Antei says its computer modelling, as well as its physical blast simulation, make this impossible.

NLR cites Almaz-Antei in its report for a description of the characteristics of Buk missile models, warhead types, and shrapnel composition of the warheads. This is NLR’s tabulation of what it claims to have been the combinations:

.........................................

Asked today to explain how the evidence of Almaz-Antei that the missile model and the warhead type cannot be combined operationally and fired together, Venema said NLR is prohibited from answering questions by an agreement with the DSB.
......................

A third Dutch report by the Netherlands Organization for Applied Scientific Research (TNO), a semi-government operation, has been published as an appendix to the main DSB dossier. The TNO claims it simulated the missile warhead detonation against a Boeing airframe by computer modelling, according to a programme called AUTODYN version 14.5. TNO reports that “in consultation with the DSB, the modelled warhead is type 9N314.” No explanation for selecting that warhead has been provided by TNO.
............

In addition to the DSB “consultation”, the TNO reports (page 3) “this study uses classified data as described in the Wet Bescherming Staatsgeheimen [State Secrets Protection Act] . The text of this report has been inspected and released for publication by the Netherlands Ministry of Defence”. A footnote to a description of the warhead at the end of the TNO report cites “Jane’s Defence Land-Based Air Defence 2009-2010, 22nd edition.” In short, the only sources for TNO’s conclusions about a Buk missile warhead blast is a NATO military secret, plus a five-year old commercial publication from London.

http://johnhelmer.net/?p=14340#more-14340

So, what's the chance that the lack of "bowtie" fragments in the bodies and cockpit, might be a sign that they were planted there are evidence to suggest a specific warhead type? Well, it's only speculation, but I thought I had better air my thoughts.

[quote="Erk"]

JohninMK wrote:Helmer has done another post, this time specifically on the Buk. My highlights and the contents of the first I have not noticed in any previous comment.

So, what's the chance that the lack of "bowtie" fragments in the bodies and cockpit, might be a sign that they were planted there are evidence to suggest a specific warhead type?  Well, it's only speculation, but I thought I had better air my thoughts.

Only one 'bowtie' and two cubic fragments were found in the crew's bodies. It is probably unlikely they were planted. Any other item could have been and, as he says, all the specialist legal people say that there is virtually no chance of any court prosecuting as the evidence trail is just not good enough. There does seem to be an astonishing lack of shrapnel given the thousands of pieces that a Buk generates and the amount of damage said to have been done.

I meant to copy across these paras about the conduct of the locals at the crash site. Bear in mind that these are the comments of a 'seen it all' Aussie Senior Sergeant (looks mean in his piccy) and top forensic guy.

In their presentation of what they saw, did, and have concluded, the AFP officers are now saying they have no evidence the Novorussians at the crash scene either claimed responsibility for the shoot-down; or acted improperly to withhold or manipulate the crash scene evidence; or stole the victims’ belongings. The AFP is also expressing its “irritation” at public claims of the cause of the crash and the conduct of the Novorussians by the Australian Prime Minister at the time, Tony Abbott. In their presentation to the media, the Australian officers “go out of their way to acknowledge and to defend the humanity of the Ukrainian rebels who were accused of bringing down the aircraft.”

Anderson now says: “The Ukrainians were not uncaring people. It was as much a tragedy for them as for the victims. There was a lot of talk of disrespect for the dead because of the fighting – that was not the case…They were searching within 20 minutes of the crash and recovering remains – that’s a good response, a good job … it was done fairly well … with the level of expertise and equipment that they had, the locals did the best they could do.” According to Donoghoe, “the victims were treated with respect and dignity in difficult circumstances.” Walsh has added: “there was no evidence to suggest otherwise”.

According to Walsh’s version of the behaviour of the Novorussian troops at the crash scene, “what we have established since is that so many victims were successfully identified on the basis of what [the Ukrainians] had collected, and subsequent searching did not reveal huge amounts of human remains that they had missed. The original [Ukrainian] work was done to a high standard in terms of the victims’ human remains being treated with respect and dignity.” Walsh dismisses media reports of looting. “There were cases of the jewellery being present. I can’t say if the presence was high or low; and there were cases of no jewellery, but not sufficient to substantiate claims of a high or extraordinary amount of looting.”

Unbelievably Pathetic Groveling of Kiev's Klimkin towards Samantha Power at the UN:



Unbelievably Pathetic Groveling of Kiev's Klimkin to Samantha Power at UN

Apartment building on Nakhimov in Mariupol came under fire from RPG this morning, no injuries. A second, unfired RPG was found at the scene. http://dnr-news.com/dnr/26514-v-mariupole-podvergsya-obstrelu-iz-granatometa-zhiloy-dom.html

Before maidan, Lugansk was corrupt almost beyond belief, this continues as there is a war over coal and it seems that the LNR Energy Minister, Dmitry Lyamina, was arrested yesterday not for some petty abuse of office as was suggested at the time, but for severe corruption and damage to LNR in regards coal to Ukraine and costing LNR, if it is true about all the "free" coal shipments to Ukraine by rail, 3 billion rubles. At this stage in the investigation it is thought Lyamina has cost LNR 350 million rubles. A thief and a traitor. It is of course more involved that what press statements say and DNR24 reproduce Boris Rozhin's article about this affair that includes comments from Pavel Dremov. Neither is surprised by what happens. This is the damage caused by the long standing Ukranian state crimminal oligarch system and the continued existance of all and any oligarchs. People die so these bastards can make money, some of which supports the army of "oligarch claqueurs" on the networks. http://dnr24.com/main/14446-pro-arest-ministra-energetiki-lnr.html

Corrupt traitor and oligarch ass licker Dmitry Lyamina

Good thing the culprit was arrested.

sepheronx wrote:Good thing the culprit was arrested.

Also good that he seems to have tripped over and bumped his head.

magnumcromagnon wrote:Unbelievably Pathetic Groveling of Kiev's Klimkin towards Samantha Power at the UN:



Unbelievably Pathetic Groveling of Kiev's Klimkin to Samantha Power at UN

Sad.

"Ukrajinski predsednik Petro Porošenko zabranjuje ukrajinskim televizijskim stanicama da puštaju snimak njegovog rukovanja sa ruskim kolegom Vladimirom Putinom u Francuskoj."

Source is in Serbian so ill translate it roughly:

"Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko decided to ban/forbid airing of video wich contains handshake with Russian president Putin in France"

Source: http://mondo.rs/a840412/Info/Svet/Ukrajina-Porosenko-zabranio-pustanje-snimka-njegovog-rukovanja-sa-Putinom.html

"They Came to Fight for Ukraine. Now They’re Stuck in No Man’s Land. (Foreign Policy Magazine)"

http://news.yahoo.com/came-fight-ukraine-now-stuck-134446612.html

The airspace farce continues. Having shot themselves in the foot, Kiev is now asking the Russians for a bandage. My highlight, the text indicates that they think that Kiev oligarch will prevail, money stronger than politics.

Two Ukrainian air carriers have asked Russia's Federal Air Transport Agency (Rosaviatsia) for permission to fly to Russia during the winter period, the agency said Monday.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — A request was made by UTair-Ukraine and Atlasjet Ukraine to carry out flights between Kiev and Moscow, and Lviv and Moscow during this time, according to the statement. "Despite the fact that the Ukrainian side initiated the termination of air traffic, Rosaviatsia received a letter from Atlasjet Ukraine with a request to allow flights for the 2015-2016 winter season on three routes: Kiev-Moscow, Odessa-Moscow and Kiev-St.Petersburg," the transport agency said in a statement.

Ukraine announced in September that it would ban numerous Russian airlines from entering its airspace as part of its sanctions against Moscow with Russia shortly mirroring the move.

"Sharing the approaches to the development of air services between our countries, based on the provisions referred to in the Ukrainian company's address, Rosaviatsia sent a letter to the State Aviation Administration of Ukraine proposing to urgently hold negotiations on a number of existing air traffic issues, at any location convenient for the Ukrainian side," the Russian agency said. Rosaviatsia added that it expected the pragmatic proposals made by the Ukrainian air carriers to "prevail over politicized decisions."

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151019/1028767484/ukrainian-air-carriers-permission-winter-flights.html#ixzz3p2KgXldf

Are Russian companies forbiden to fly over Ukraina to third countries or just to land to Ukranie?

marat wrote:Are Russian companies forbiden to fly over Ukraina to third countries or just to land to Ukranie?

AFAIK they are not allowed to enter Ukrainian airspace.

marat wrote:Are Russian companies forbiden to fly over Ukraina to third countries or just to land to Ukranie?

In one week. Total NFZ over Ukraine for Russia.

Lay down your weapons and you will live

from who to who?