Sukhoi/HAL FGFA: News

Super Sukhois are expected to be powered with Al-41F1S engines used by Su 35 along with Zhuk AESA Radar and with improved paint coating for reduction in RCS. All 272 ordered Su 30 MKI will be eqipped with the AESA radar and AL-41F1S engines in gradual phases

Finally some good news that Russia has allowed IAF pilots to fly the PAK FA. The contact should be signed soon in by coming winters. one thing looks certain is that India might order couple of sq of Russian version of PAK-FA

The availability of Su 30 MKI has gone up to 60% and is expected to be 75%

Pinto wrote:Super Sukhois are expected to be powered with Al-41F1S engines used by Su 35 along with Zhuk AESA Radar and with improved paint coating for reduction in RCS. All 272 ordered Su 30 MKI will be eqipped with the AESA radar and AL-41F1S engines in gradual phases

Finally some good news that Russia has allowed IAF pilots to fly the PAK FA. The contact should be signed soon in by coming winters. one thing looks certain is that India might order couple of sq of Russian version of PAK-FA

The availability of Su 30 MKI has gone up to 60% and is expected to be 75%  

Pinto anything on that logistics deal between India and the U.S?

AlfaT8 wrote:

Pinto wrote:Super Sukhois are expected to be powered with Al-41F1S engines used by Su 35 along with Zhuk AESA Radar and with improved paint coating for reduction in RCS. All 272 ordered Su 30 MKI will be eqipped with the AESA radar and AL-41F1S engines in gradual phases

Finally some good news that Russia has allowed IAF pilots to fly the PAK FA. The contact should be signed soon in by coming winters. one thing looks certain is that India might order couple of sq of Russian version of PAK-FA

The availability of Su 30 MKI has gone up to 60% and is expected to be 75%  

Pinto anything on that logistics deal between India and the U.S?

bro that deal is not signed yet, govt has verbally said yes but if its signed govt might have issues in passing many bills in lower house of parliament. so its not easier to sign that deal plus Russian reaction of this is not going to be kind. its going to be tough ask for govt to convince parliament and Russia for that matter

So its most probably left over till the taking over next president in US i.e till next summers

Pinto wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

Pinto wrote:Super Sukhois are expected to be powered with Al-41F1S engines used by Su 35 along with Zhuk AESA Radar and with improved paint coating for reduction in RCS. All 272 ordered Su 30 MKI will be eqipped with the AESA radar and AL-41F1S engines in gradual phases

Finally some good news that Russia has allowed IAF pilots to fly the PAK FA. The contact should be signed soon in by coming winters. one thing looks certain is that India might order couple of sq of Russian version of PAK-FA

The availability of Su 30 MKI has gone up to 60% and is expected to be 75%  

Pinto anything on that logistics deal between India and the U.S?

bro that deal is not signed yet, govt has verbally said yes but if its signed govt might have issues in passing many bills in lower house of parliament. so its not easier to sign that deal plus Russian reaction of this is not going to be kind. its going to be tough ask for govt to convince parliament and Russia for that matter

So its most probably left over till the taking over next president in US i.e till next summers

I see, so Modi needs parliamentary approval first, thank goodness, i though he was just going to power it through regardless of what anyone says, that said it's going to be interesting whether it be with Hillary or Trump, BTW how hard would it be to get a revolution going in India??

Bro the point is govt do not need parliament approval to take executive decision to sign logistical deal but since they are in minority in lower house and opposition led by congress will never allow this agreement to be signed and i govt signed it then the parliament work will be stuck on other imp bills

Modi govt has done some good work in liberalization of licenses and 100% fdi in defense, and other sectors but there pro US tilt will land them in problem as US is always seen suspiciously by common Indians and the Indian govt can not ignore there concern. Russia on the opposite side is seen as reliable friend so US will pressure but govt wont be able to sign any of these agreements with US at least till one next year

Regarding uprising well this govt is still 2 yrs old and it has 3 yrs remaining  but discontent is brewing in people over rising prices, unemployment, pay rise disparity and more rhetoric then real action on ground. so lets wait for another one year.The handling of kashmir/pakistan/china policy is also debatable and govt has met with little success on these crucial issues

http://tass.ru/en/defense/887497

India, Russia to invest $4 billion each in final phase of 5th-generation fighter creation

Military & Defense July 11, 14:23 UTC+3

India is finally taking forward the negotiations with Russia on stalled projects to jointly develop a futuristic fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) as well as upgrade its existing Su-30MKI jets


NEW DELHI, July 11. /TASS/. India is boosting negotiations with Russia on joint development and creation of the fifth-generation fighter (FGFA - Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) and is ready for the sides’ equal contribution to the project worth $4 billion at the stage of development work, The Times of India newspaper reported on Monday with reference to the Indian Defense Ministry.

India is finally taking forward the negotiations with Russia on stalled mega projects to jointly develop a futuristic fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) as well as upgrade its existing Sukhoi-30MKI jets into ‘Super Sukhois’ with advanced avionics and weapons, the article says.

Though India and France are now close to inking the estimated €7.8 billion deal for 36 Rafale jets, the Defense Ministry acknowledges that just 36 fighters will not be enough to stem the country's hemorrhaging air combat power. The IAF is down to just 33 fighter squadrons - including 11 obsolete MiG-21 and MiG-27 squadrons slated for retirement - when at least 42 are required to keep the "collusive China-Pakistan threat" at bay.

The "multi-pronged strategy" to progressively crank up airpower ranges from inducting the indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft to exploring a second line of fighter production in the country, with the American FA-18 and F-16 as well as Swedish Gripen-E already in contention for this proposed ‘Make in India’ project, The Times of India writes.


Apart from these 4th-generation fighters, the Defense Ministry is now finally working towards inking the final R&D design contract with Russia this year for the Indian "perspective multi-role fighter", a variant of the Russian single-seat FGFA called Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA. "Apart from resolving technical and cost issues, Russia has also agreed to allow IAF test pilots to fly its prototypes now," said a source. The final R&D contract for the FGFA was on hold till now despite the two countries having first inked an inter-governmental agreement in 2007 and then following it up with a $295 million preliminary design contract in 2010, as was earlier reported by The Times of India. Under the main design contract to be executed in over six years now, India and Russia will chip in around $4 billion each for prototype development, testing and infrastructure build-up. The overall cost for producing 127 of these single-seat fighters - which will combine stealth, super-cruise and multi-sensor integration - in India will be about $25 billion.

Amid all this, the Indian Defense Ministry is also trying to ensure "maximum operationally availability" of the existing fighters at any given time. Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar, for instance, says serviceability of Sukhois has jumped to 60% now from an alarming 46% earlier.


"The aim is to achieve 75% serviceability. This has been done with an active tripartite dialogue among Russia, Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) and IAF to ensure better availability of spares and maintenance for the Sukhois," a source said.

This, in turn, has led to renewal of the plan to upgrade the jets into `Super Sukhois', with advanced AESA (active electronically scanned array) radars and long-range stand-off missiles. "The technical requirements should be finalized this year, with the contract being inked next year," said the source, according to The Times of India.


The FGFA fighter is developed based on the Russian PAK FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation or T-50) jet in accordance with the Indian side’s technical requirements. In particular, the design and development of a two-seater version of the aircraft, the integration of an advanced engine with increased thrust are planned at the request of India.


More:
http://tass.ru/en/defense/887497

BENGALURU: It’s an accepted truth that every country requires muscles according to its size and economic prowess. Since an increase in size in today’s context is almost impossible and entirely catastrophic, an inflating economic prowess becomes the driver to grow bigger muscles. For India, apart from being one of the fastest growing economies, there lies other reasons as well— hostility in the neighborhood and the same neighbors aiding radicalized groups directed towards destabilizing the nation.



Trying to portray itself as a dominant regional power capable of power projection around every stretch of the world, if required, India’s defence budget has gradually multiplied over the years. From advanced gears for the world’s second or third largest standing military to aircraft carriers and nuclear submarine for the naval fleet, the nation does succeed in its attempts.



However, despite being astoundingly powerful, IAF lagged behind its counterparts. The finalized €7.8 billion deal between India and France for the acquisition of 36 Dassault Rafale fighter jets narrowed the gap significantly. To completely seal the gap and attain devastating air superiority in the regional skies, the nation pushes farther and stronger. Moving accordingly to a “multi-pronged strategy” the Indian aerospace is almost ready to accommodate the indigenous light combat aircraft, Tejas. This strategy also includes talks around the American F/A-18 and F-16, and Swedish Gripen-E in contention for the ambitious “Make in India”.



Amidst the talks what’s even more interesting is the nearly finalized deal between India and Russia to co-develop a multi-role fighter, the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Till now it has been agreed upon that both the partnering countries will chip in about $4 billion each for prototype development, testing and infrastructure build-up. The FGFA is proposed to be armed with stealth, super-cruise and multi-sensor integration.



Last but not the least is the upgrading of existing Sukhoi 30MKIs to “Super Sukhois”. Deemed as the backbone of Indian air space protection, the upgraded Sukhois will serve as India’s primary multi-role air superiority fighter for the years to come. The plan is to equip the fighters with long-range stand-off missiles up to the range of 300 km. The coveted BrahMos armed with nuclear warheads are also under consideration. Other possible upgrades include multiple ejector Rack, AESA radar, more powerful EW and jamming systems, along with high-performance engines and anti-armour missiles. The whole upgradation will be coordinated between HAL and Russian help, and is estimated at around Rs 10,900 crores, with the option to increase the spending to $12 billion if required.

http://www.siliconindia.com/news/ge...Fly-In-Indian-Air-Space-nid-196990-cid-1.html

Very pleasing news coming regarding FGFA and Super sukhois in Indian colors  

The best things happening to IAF will be this

Last but not the least is the upgrading of existing Sukhoi 30MKIs to “Super Sukhois”. Deemed as the backbone of Indian air space protection, the upgraded Sukhois will serve as India’s primary multi-role air superiority fighter for the years to come. The plan is to equip the fighters with long-range stand-off missiles up to the range of 300 km. The coveted BrahMos armed with nuclear warheads are also under consideration. Other possible upgrades include multiple ejector Rack, AESA radar, more powerful EW and jamming systems, along with high-performance engines and anti-armour missiles

After several months of hectic negotiations on technical details, India and Russia are ready with a detailed work-share agreement for joint production of a fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA). Russia will now share critical new generation aircraft technologies as part of a deal that would include production of over 100 fighters in India.

The two nations are also expected to incorporate a new company by October for the production of Kamov Ka 226 light choppers, which would involve significant private sector participation.

Both projects have been accelerated ahead of Indo-Russian summit talks in Goa next month that will be attended by President Vladimir Putin.

Officials who have been briefed on ongoing talks told ET that the FGFA programme in particular will yield rich dividends to India due to the quantum of technology on offer. “From a preliminary documents that was barely two dozen pages, we have agreed on a 650 page detailed plan that specifies exactly what all will be shared,” the official said.

Unlike in the past when a broad agreement would be signed on fighter deals like the Su 30 MKI contract, this time around Indian negotiators have gone deep into details of the joint production plan.

The project got a boost last year from Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar after being on the brink of collapse.

The signing of the work share agreement is expected shortly, with India committing to invest $4 billion over the coming years to develop a tailor-made version of the fighter. One of the major concerns of the Indian side was the development of a new jet engine for the fighter and its weapons package.

India has already spent $300 million in a preliminary design contract for the project with Russia that was completed in June 2013. In the initial stage, HAL and Russian Helicopters will sign up for the joint company but the Indian side is clear that a private sector partner will be brought in at a later stage to assist the project.

Pune-based Kalyani Strategic Systems is tipped as a frontrunner for this partnership to manufacture helicopter engines for the KA 226.

On the chopper contract, officials said that work is being accelerated to ensure that a new joint company is incorporated by the time the summit level talks begin.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/india-and-russia-agree-on-details-of-new-joint-production-of-fifth-generation-fighter-aircraft/articleshow/54203573.cms

Pune-based Kalyani Strategic Systems is tipped as a frontrunner for this partnership to manufacture helicopter engines for the KA 226.

This is a very good news Kamov 226 will be made by Russia with privtae players in India and not the HAL which is already over worked

India and Russia Reach Agreement Over 5th Generation Fighter Aircraft

New Delhi and Moscow purportedly have finally agreed to a work-share agreement for the co-production of a new warplane.

L1001025
By Franz-Stefan Gady
September 12, 2016


After repeated delays, India and Russia have agreed to a detailed work-sharing agreement for the joint production of design and production of a new fighter jet under the so-called joint Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) project, known in India as the Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF), according to Indian media reports.

“From a preliminary document that was barely two dozen pages, we have agreed on a 650 page detailed plan that specifies exactly what all will be shared,” an unidentified Indian defense official told The Economic Times. A final contract is expected to be signed in early 2017.

The talks between Indian and Russian defense officials were allegedly accelerated ahead of an Indian-Russian summit to be held in Goa on October 15. As I reported in January, Russian President Vladimir Putin and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi failed to reach an agreement during a bilateral meeting in Moscow in December 2015.

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The FGFA/PMF project has been hampered by repeated delays since the start of the project in 2007 and the signing of a preliminary $295 million design contract in 2010. In 2015, Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar decided to make one last push toward reaching an agreement with Russia. I explained:

Delays were caused by New Delhi and Moscow disagreeing over many fundamental aspects of the joint development project including work and cost share, aircraft technology, as well as the number of aircraft to be ordered. After evaluating the first PAK FA T-50 prototype (the Russian prototype of the PMF), the Indian Air Force (IAF) wanted more than 40 changes addressing, among other things, perceived weaknesses in the plane’s engine, stealth, and weapon-carrying capabilities.

Russia announced in late 2015 that it would only induct a squadron (18-24 aircraft) of PAK FA fighter aircraft, and procure additional Sukhoi Su-35 aircraft instead. The original deal involved Russia procuring 250 and India 144 aircraft at a cost of around $30 billion by 2022. As a result, India threatened to abandon the project in its entirety. Russia in turn made a number of concessions including an offer to cut down its financial contribution from $6 to $ 3.7 billion for three PAK FA T-50 prototypes and substantial technology transfers.

Despite the agreeing on a work-share plan, problems with the FGFA/PMF project nevertheless will remain (See: “Russia Tests Components of New 6th Generation Fighter Jet on 5th Generation War Plane”):

Russia’s defense industry is still facing technical (as well as financial) hurdles including designing a new engine for the aircraft, given that PAK FA prototypes are currently using engines also installed on Sukhoi Su-35S 4++ generation multi-role fighter jets, calling into question whether the PAK FA can genuinely be classified as an 5th generation aircraft

As part of the effort to salvage the defense deal, Moscow has also agreed to let Indian test pilots fly the PAK FA T-50 prototype currently undergoing flight trials in Russia. Hundreds of flight tests have taken place over the last months and the Russian Air Force expects the first aircraft to be inducted into its ranks in 2017. Nevertheless, many senior officers in the IAF remain skeptical about the aircraft’s affordability and capabilities.


http://thediplomat.com/2016/09/indi...reement-over-5th-generation-fighter-aircraft/

http://www.janes.com/article/63653/india-and-russia-reach-agreement-on-fgfa-and-ka-226t-helicopter

India and Russia reach agreement on FGFA and Ka-226T helicopter
Rahul Bedi, New Delhi - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
13 September 2016

India and Russia have concluded negotiations to jointly develop a Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) and to licence-build 200 twin-engine Kamov Ka-226T 'Hoodlum' light multi-role helicopters.
Official sources told IHS Jane's on 12 September that Russia had reached agreement with India's state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) on both platforms ahead of Russian president Vladimir Putin's visit to Goa in mid-October for the BRICS conference and the annual India-Russia summit.

They said that both sides had agreed to contribute USD3.7 billion - down from Russia's earlier USD5 billion demand - to jointly develop the Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA combat aircraft based on Indian Air Force (IAF) requirements.

GarryB wrote:

They said that both sides had agreed to contribute USD3.7 billion - down from Russia's earlier USD5 billion demand - to jointly develop the Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA combat aircraft based on Indian Air Force (IAF) requirements.

I wonder if that means that India will be getting 3.7 billion dollars worth of alterations on the PAK FA design, or if they will get 5 billion dollars worth of changes for 3.7 billion dollars?

Lol pure business minded questions bro , i feel both will contribute this amount of 3.7b $ for design and avionics to be finalized and developed. This is a development cost to be shared 50-50

GarryB wrote:

This is a development cost to be shared 50-50

But why.

The FFGA is not for Russia... it is for India.

India reducing its contribution only reduces the money invested in their aircraft.

lol , Bro i feel the FGFA is going to be modified version of T50 and be assured that India will get 2-3 sq of PAK-FA too till FGFA is finalized and ready. so this development cost of both IS being shared its not that PAK-FA and and FGFA are going to be vastly different in avionics except India will have more double seat version. So both are sharing the development cost of twin version fighter

The negotiations for the Research and Development design contract with Russia for the Indian "perspective multi-role fighter", a variant of the Russian single-seat FGFA called Sukhoi T-50 or PAK-FA has been resolved, Indian Air Force (IAF) chief Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha said.

“The tortuous negotiations holding up the Indo-Russian Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) have been resolved,” Raha was quoted as saying by Business Standard Wednesday.

“The two sides are believed to have agreed on a $4-billion “R&D Contract” that could see HAL and Sukhoi co-develop and build up to 250 FGFAs for the IAF,” he added. “[Earlier, the IAF] found gaps in information on transfer of technology; how they (Sukhoi) have achieved these 5th generation technologies, and in visibility of the total cost. So these issues were flagged… and now a lot of clarity has come on these issues. Hopefully things will be decided sooner rather than later on the FGFA,” Raha said.

The final R&D contract for the FGFA was on hold till now despite the two countries having first inked an inter-governmental agreement in 2007 and then following it up with a $295 million preliminary design contract in 2010.

Earlier reports had said New Delhi had proposed that instead of commencing the detailed project report (DPR), India would pay for three prototypes and transfer of technology (TOT) instead of US$6 billion for the DPR and joint production.

It is not clear if India wants to use the prototypes and TOT to set up its own production line in India.

The FGFA, also called T-50, is the most advanced aircraft to be built in Russia. It combines stealth technology with super-maneuverability enabling it to penetrate deep into enemy territory and conduct bombing as well as dogfight with enemy planes.

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/10/indo-russian-fifth-generation-fighter-r.html

BENAULIM (GOA): With military deals worth about Rs 60,000 crore signed and sealed with India here, Russia is hopeful that another big ticket agreement on Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft will be inked by year-end.

"The agreement had been completed on our end, we are ready to sign it. It is now down to the Indian side.

"There are some formalities to figure out, but I think it will be signed by the end of this year," Sergei Chemezov, CEO of Rostec State Corporation a Russian umbrella organisation of 700 hi-tech civilian and military firms, said here.

After a hiatus of nearly a year, India and Russia had in February revived talks on the much delayed FGFA project after a clearance from Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar.

Since then, a lot of issues related to work share, IPR and technology transfer among others have been sorted out between the two sides along with the monetary commitments.


Under the new offer, India will have to pay about $3.7 billion, instead of $ 6 billion, for the technological know-how and three prototypes of the fighters, defence sources have said.

In 2010, India had agreed to pay $295 million towards the preliminary design of the fighter, called in India as Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF).

"The FGFA project will produce a state of the art fighter jet, and it will be the result of the work on Russia's most modern technology done by both Russian and Indian engineers and constructors," Chemezov said.

"As a Fifth Generation, it means fifth generation speed, ballistics and military equipment, avionics and stealth capabilities among other qualities," he said.

"It shall be on a par with the capabilities of Russia's PAK-FA T-50 aircraft, a Fifth-Generation fighter but as it will be designed in the next few years, it is likely to exceed it in some specifics.

"Our technology is always developing," the Russia's top defence industry official said.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Indo-Russia fifth generation fighter aircraft will be completely new, not linked to Sukhoi T 50: Russia

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/57185821.cms

Rostec has said that it is worrying that faster progress has not been made by the Indian side to finalise the project.

"We have raised the matter at the highest level and had discussions at Aero India as well. What is worrying is that we are not yet taking the program ahead," Viktor N Kladov, Direct, International Cooperation, Rostec said, adding that he was hopeful that progress will be made this year to sign on the dotted line.

Russia is keen to differentiate the Indian project with its ongoing T 50 fighter jet program. "The Indian FGFA is not a copy cat of the T 50, it will be a new aircraft that will also have some technologies from the T 50. If India had wanted the T 50, we would not be working on a new aircraft (FGFA) program," Kladov said.

Answering a query by ET on whether the Russian side would be willing to work on integrating a western engine to the fifth generation aircraft (Russia has been facing delays due to this), the executive said that such an approach would not be practical due to the history of sanctions by western powers. "Even in our plans to develop a new commercial aircraft to take on Boeing and Airbus, we are insisting on our own engine due to the past sanctions. In a military project these concerns are even more

Austin wrote:Indo-Russia fifth generation fighter aircraft will be completely new, not linked to Sukhoi T 50: Russia

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/57185821.cms

Rostec has said that it is worrying that faster progress has not been made by the Indian side to finalise the project.

"We have raised the matter at the highest level and had discussions at Aero India as well. What is worrying is that we are not yet taking the program ahead," Viktor N Kladov, Direct, International Cooperation, Rostec said, adding that he was hopeful that progress will be made this year to sign on the dotted line.

Russia is keen to differentiate the Indian project with its ongoing T 50 fighter jet program. "The Indian FGFA is not a copy cat of the T 50, it will be a new aircraft that will also have some technologies from the T 50. If India had wanted the T 50, we would not be working on a new aircraft (FGFA) program," Kladov said.

Answering a query by ET on whether the Russian side would be willing to work on integrating a western engine to the fifth generation aircraft (Russia has been facing delays due to this), the executive said that such an approach would not be practical due to the history of sanctions by western powers. "Even in our plans to develop a new commercial aircraft to take on Boeing and Airbus, we are insisting on our own engine due to the past sanctions. In a military project these concerns are even more

From my point of view the project is dead, because India has no really plan and is not pushing the project. And I simply doubt India has the Knowhow to be at same level with Russia to develop the project, so Russia should keep important technologies secret!

India has a main problem, they don't want be depending on one chief supplier for weapons, that makes things only complicated and the have a pure zoo of weapon systems.

The Indian FGFA is not a copy cat of the T 50, it will be a new aircraft that will also have some technologies from the T 50. If India had wanted the T 50, we would not be working on a new aircraft (FGFA) program

Interesting
I'd always presumed FGFA would be a 2-seat T-50 with a bunch of Indian systems/manufacturing.

That may be enough to classify as a new plane in the same way Su-30, Su-35 & Su-34 are different planes I guess?

With regards to the discussion about the FGFA. Does this hold any water?