Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+41
Podlodka77
mnrck
Mindstorm
Arrow
lyle6
kvs
mnztr
The-thing-next-door
LMFS
tomazy
Azi
jhelb
Singular_Transform
owais.usmani
dino00
Hole
PapaDragon
hoom
saynow
miketheterrible
JohninMK
AlfaT8
Isos
Project Canada
Cyberspec
George1
max steel
artjomh
magnumcromagnon
Big_Gazza
chicken
Mike E
Vann7
IronsightSniper
TR1
KRATOS1133
Admin
Viktor
GarryB
Austin
coolieno99
45 posters

    Kalibr missile system

    avatar
    saynow


    Posts : 2
    Points : 4
    Join date : 2017-03-27

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty caliber missile why named so ?

    Post  saynow Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:31 am

    is it standard for all new missiles
    or some meaning else
    first time i heard about the name
    it is English word i know it i heard before
    but i couldnt get the meaning why russian named it so
    thank you
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40541
    Points : 41041
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  GarryB Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:42 am

    AFAIK the name calibr is for the missile family whose export name is Klub.

    It is a land attack subsonic missile and a subsonic and subsonic/supersonic anti ship missile that evolved from the grannat nuclear armed cruise missile from the 1980s.

    It is not a standard name for all new missiles... the existing Onyx missile has the export model Yakhont, which was developed with India to create Brahmos. The replacement Zircon is also being worked on with India in an export version too.

    Note the domestic names relate to geological names... ie Granit, Amethist, Vulcan, etc etc.
    avatar
    hoom


    Posts : 2352
    Points : 2340
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  hoom Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:02 am

    In normal use Calibre = the diameter of a gun barrel.

    For the missile its a family name including multiple quite different missiles.

    Think of it like how US navy has Standard (Standard = military flag) as a family name for a bunch of SAMs.
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18520
    Points : 19025
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  George1 Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:47 am

    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18520
    Points : 19025
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  George1 Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:46 am

    100 "Calibers": chronology of 3M14 combat launches

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 0_17c70e_2285c84_orig

    https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/174996.html

    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18520
    Points : 19025
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  George1 Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:27 pm

    Club (Kalibr)-K visuals by JSC Rosoboronexport. Note Project 21820 landing craft render - armed with 2x Club-K with 4 missiles each

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/klab-k/
    Big_Gazza
    Big_Gazza


    Posts : 4896
    Points : 4886
    Join date : 2014-08-25
    Location : Melbourne, Australia

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Big_Gazza Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:06 am

    Nice! A 21820 LCT clearly lacks endurance and open-ocean sea-worthiness, but extend the concept to RoRo container vessels and you have a nice "arsenal ship". No smarts and reliant on external C&C and targetting info, but provides a big boost to taskforce ordnance in operations such as wiping up terrorists in Syria. Use 'em up early and send the civvie home.

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 645ae677de73995e82901660debfa6dc

    It would be prudent to place an order for significant quantities of such containerised systems, and stockpile them at military ports as a rapid response contingency.
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18520
    Points : 19025
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  George1 Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:19 pm

    Kalibr Cruise Missile loaded in torpedo tube of Improved Kilo submarine

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 29386380_997073347113021_3187671430842023936_n
    JohninMK
    JohninMK


    Posts : 15640
    Points : 15781
    Join date : 2015-06-16
    Location : England

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  JohninMK Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:15 pm

    George1 wrote:Club (Kalibr)-K visuals by JSC Rosoboronexport. Note Project 21820 landing craft render - armed with 2x Club-K with 4 missiles each

    http://roe.ru/eng/catalog/naval-systems/klab-k/
    Love the phrase "transportation reticence" used to describe the components housed in standard marine containers. Whoever came up with that knew his English.
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18520
    Points : 19025
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  George1 Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:50 pm

    Russian Navy takes delivery of 49 Kalibr cruise missiles

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1014216
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18520
    Points : 19025
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  George1 Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:54 pm

    New Kalibr-M cruise missile with range of over 4,500 km in development in Russia - source

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1039123
    PapaDragon
    PapaDragon


    Posts : 13472
    Points : 13512
    Join date : 2015-04-26
    Location : Fort Evil, Serbia

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:01 pm

    George1 wrote:New Kalibr-M cruise missile with range of over 4,500 km in development in Russia - source

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1039123

    They'll need new launcher for these.

    I assume approach will be for this new one to ba able to load and fire several standard Kalibr or Redut AA missiles using adapters?
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 11121
    Points : 11099
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Hole Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:42 pm

    Or they change the upper part.

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 000612

    4 big Kalibr-M instead of 8 Kalibr.
    magnumcromagnon
    magnumcromagnon


    Posts : 8138
    Points : 8273
    Join date : 2013-12-05
    Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  magnumcromagnon Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:03 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    George1 wrote:New Kalibr-M cruise missile with range of over 4,500 km in development in Russia - source

    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/1039123

    They'll need new launcher for these.

    I assume approach will be for this new one to ba able to load and fire several standard Kalibr or Redut AA missiles using adapters?

    Or maybe not. The original Kalibr probably was purposely filled with lower calorie fuel, and probably some of the better fuel (reserved mostly for Kh-101) was never installed. Of course as what GarryB has stated, because it's launched from ground/naval platform it loses some range (approx 1000km), as opposed to air-launched (5500km air launch vs 4500km surface/sea launch).
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40541
    Points : 41041
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:33 am

    The fact that it is called Calibr-M shows it is based on the Calibr missile, but it may use more efficient fuel, more fuel in a redesigned shape, that has more efficient turbofan engine as fitted to the Kh-101/102 air launched missiles.

    Keep in mind that the Kh-101 is only 2.5 tons... the Kh-55SM is 1.5 tons so it is only one ton extra of onboard fuel and a more efficient engine that extends its range from 3,000km to 5,500km.

    The ship launched Calibr is also about 1.5 tons, but then the Brahmos is 3 tons in the surface launched model (2.5 ton in the air launched model), so even if it was 2.5 tons it would not be the heaviest missile already carried in the UKSK launcher.
    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40541
    Points : 41041
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  GarryB Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:03 am

    If they are making the UKSK launcher bigger, in the form of the UKSK-M then I rather suspect it is because they want to add the S-500 SAMs but they are likely to be much too big to fit into Redut.

    I also suspect a larger tube for weapons like Zircon would also be useful as scramjet missiles will need to be bigger more than a cruise missile needs to be bigger...
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18520
    Points : 19025
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  George1 Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:48 pm

    About Kalibr-M missile project


    The other day, literally, information passed that the development of a new version of a cruise missile with a range of more than 4500 km Caliber-M was begun. A source in the defense industry told TASS about it. "For the Navy, the newest high-precision ship-based Kalibr-M cruise missile with a maximum firing range of more than 4.5 thousand km is being developed. The creation of the rocket is at the stage of research and is financed by the Ministry of Defense." The rocket is included in the state program of armaments for 2018–2027, and therefore, until 2027, it should be entered into service with the Russian Navy. It is also reported that the rocket will be larger and the mass of the warhead close to 1000 kg. New rocket is planned to equip large surface ships, starting with frigates, as well as nuclear submarines. As well as the progenitor of the new rocket will be able to carry both nuclear and conventional combat units, and will be designed to defeat ground objects.

    I propose to start with dimensions: the Caliber 3M-14 rocket in its maximum configuration (let's say) has a caliber of 533 mm and a length of up to 8220 mm, and a mass of 2300 kg. In this case, it is considered that its range is 2000-2500 km. With a warhead weight of about 500 kg. Immediately make a reservation - the mass of a nuclear warhead can be significantly less - for example, 150 kg. The use of such missiles on shipboard ships is provided with a launcher of a vertical launch of the 3C-14 type. The same launchers 3C-14 are also used as the Onyx 3M-55 anti-ship missiles. TPK which has a length of up to 8900 mm and a diameter of up to 720 mm, the mass of the rocket is not less than 3000 kg.

    It is not difficult to assume that the available reserves allow to carry out a rocket "type 3M-14" with a diameter of 700 mm instead of 533 mm and a length of 8900 mm instead of 8220 mm, which gives just at least 200 kg of additional fuel, but taking into account the optimization of the layout (I think that there are reserves, taking into account the age of the current missiles, will actually give more than 300 kg of additional fuel. And taking into account a more optimal aerodynamic shape, as well as more high-energy fuel, as well as updating the engine, it will fully provide a corresponding increase in flight range.

    Yes, it is likely that the shape of the new missiles will be less round and more flat-square-diamond. The marching engine most likely will not move out of the hull. The start will be smaller in size. Perhaps in the new UBCS there is a reserve for larger-diameter missiles — then the task will be a bit simpler. By the way, with a modular design (and why not?) With such a nuclear missile, the range can be even more. Or maybe 4500 km - this is exactly the range with a nuclear charge? Then, in general, you can do almost nothing - learn how to put a rubber tank instead of half the combat compartment and fly. Just kidding, of course.

    https://militaryrussia.livejournal.com/435266.html
    dino00
    dino00


    Posts : 1677
    Points : 1714
    Join date : 2012-10-12
    Age : 37
    Location : portugal

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  dino00 Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:20 pm

    48 kalibr since the beginning of the year

    https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/20194121232-ebxdY.html
    avatar
    owais.usmani


    Posts : 1825
    Points : 1821
    Join date : 2019-03-27
    Age : 38

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  owais.usmani Sun Sep 22, 2019 6:29 pm

    Where are Kalibr missiles manufactured in Russia? I mean which factory?
    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18520
    Points : 19025
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  George1 Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:37 pm

    During Grom2019 strategic command & control exercise, in the Sea of Barents and the Caspian Sea the Northern Fleet and Caspian Flotilla warships performed Kalibr high-precision cruise missile launches having hit several coastal targets.







    George1
    George1


    Posts : 18520
    Points : 19025
    Join date : 2011-12-22
    Location : Greece

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  George1 Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:45 pm

    3M-14 cruise missile complex Kalibr-NK launch from 11356 fregat Admiral Essen

    Singular_Transform
    Singular_Transform


    Posts : 1032
    Points : 1014
    Join date : 2016-11-13

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Singular_Transform Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:29 pm

    I started to wonder about the existence of a reconnaissance version of the kalibr/onyx/granit.


    Practically all launching platform of the long range ASM missiles lack the range comparable to the E-2, means they will be detected before can detect the targets.


    So, if a brave person remove the warhead from a kalibr (onyx) , and put same extra fuel, electronics, APU and side looking S/VHF band radar then the cost of the missile will go up , but the price of it will be still low compared to a fighter jet, and extreme low compared to an E-2 , and practically 0 compared to a destroyer.


    So, if a ship has eight vertical launchers, then can store say two special missile without warhead, and if there is a plausible existence of an adversary , then just launch one of it.


    IT will have at least two hours of flight time, and can cover few hundred thousand square km of sea.

    As soon as the reconnaissance unit see the enemy the spare special and all slow kalibr units can be launched, and as they reach the proportional distance the onyx, finally the zirkon can be launched.


    So, from the enemy standpoint from the detection of the small , reconnaissance missile in 40 minutes they get 7-100, few of them to loiter and targeting, and the others for attack with different speed/angle/warhead profiles.


    They said that the Granit can attack in pack, and who said the leader of the pack can not loiter alone, until he found the targets?
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11602
    Points : 11570
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Isos Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:25 pm

    Are you talking about attacking a carrier group ? USSR/Russian tactics is to find them with submarines which now have 40 vls for 40 antiship missiles.

    A carrier group makes huge sound and will be detected far away something like 300-400km in good conditions. The data will be send back towards ship and HQ.

    The group goes at max 50km/h so after 1h it can be 50km away, after 2h 100km away ...

    Modern radars in antiship missiles have a range of 40-60km. It will be very hard for the carrier to get away specially that tu-22M will be send very fast and launch their kh-32 from 1000km.

    On the other side radar range of awacs is not that huge. From what I saw on other forum they talk about 200-300km against a 4th generation fighter. They use L band so stealth works less on them but a 5th generation plane still has shapes that send radar signal in other durection than where the radar is so you can expect less range against them (something like 180-280km). A su-35 Irbis radar has 400 km range against a 5m2 jet and 300km r-37 missile to shot down the awacs. Its radar can also detect a carrier at 400km pretty easily and khbiniy EW pods and its onboard RWR will detect any signal out there like data links or comms and know the direction from where it comes and maybe even the range.

    The radars on old bombers like tu-95 or tu22M have also huge ranges against carriers. New pak da will be more and it will come with hypersonic tactical missiles.


    GarryB
    GarryB


    Posts : 40541
    Points : 41041
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  GarryB Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:02 am

    You can't track individual aircraft and drones with satellites, but aircraft carriers have very distinct optical and thermal signatures that make them relatively easy to detect and track...

    In an attack with Granits... and most likely later anti ship missiles like Vulkan and Onyx and now Zircon, one missile will climb to look for targets and then drop down when the enemy surface group is detected and scanned... a bit like a single AH-64 popping up to scan for targets and then dropping back down behind cover to analyse the enemy targets... their position and strength... it would then hand that data to other aircraft in the flight and each aircraft would be assigned targets so they could then manouver to a different place and then pop up from behind cover and launch and then drop down behind cover and move to a new location.

    With Granits one missile would climb and scan and then drop down and analyse the radar return to identify the ships in the target group. If there were 24 missiles in the salvo based on the types of ship it identified it would then pass its radar view of the target both to the other missiles in the group and the ship that launched the missiles. It would allocate missiles to targets, so any nuke armed missiles might slow down a little to increase their chance of getting close to detonate amongst the enemy ships... or conversely they might let it go ahead and blind the defences and do some damage to every ship before the rest of the pack arrive.

    Big air defence targets will be targeted with several missiles, with perhaps the carrier getting 6-8 missiles on its own... the remainder would target AEGIS class cruisers or any helicopter carriers or landing ships that might be detected...

    The point is these Granits entered service in 1980 and datalinks and computing power has improved a bit since that time.

    (Note to be clear the Granit I am talking about is the SS-N-19 Shipwreck, not the SS-N-21 Grannat, which is the ancestor of the Calibr and was land attack only with a nuclear warhead only... it had no terminal guidance so there were no conventionally armed or anti ship models.)
    Singular_Transform
    Singular_Transform


    Posts : 1032
    Points : 1014
    Join date : 2016-11-13

    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Singular_Transform Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:47 am

    Isos wrote:Are you talking about attacking a carrier group ? USSR/Russian tactics is to find them with submarines which now have 40 vls for 40 antiship missiles.

    A carrier group makes huge sound and will be detected far away something like 300-400km in good conditions. The data will be send back towards ship and HQ.

    The group goes at max 50km/h so after 1h it can be 50km away, after 2h 100km away ...

    Modern radars in antiship missiles have a range of 40-60km. It will be very hard for the carrier to get away specially that tu-22M will be send very fast and launch their kh-32 from 1000km.

    On the other side radar range of awacs is not that huge. From what I saw on other forum they talk about 200-300km against a 4th generation fighter. They use L band so stealth works less on them but a 5th generation plane still has shapes that send radar signal in other durection than where the radar is so you can expect less range against them (something like 180-280km). A su-35 Irbis radar has 400 km range against a 5m2 jet and 300km r-37 missile to shot down the awacs. Its radar can also detect a carrier at 400km pretty easily and khbiniy EW pods and its onboard RWR will detect any signal out there like data links or comms and know the direction from where it comes and maybe even the range.

    The radars on old bombers like tu-95 or tu22M have also huge ranges against carriers. New pak da will be more and it will come with hypersonic tactical missiles.



    I'm talking about how could be possible for a standalone ship to attack successfully another ship / group of ships without using any other assets.


    The RUN going into that direction anyway.

    And it can explain the high cost of kalibr.

    Sponsored content


    Kalibr missile system - Page 5 Empty Re: Kalibr missile system

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Nov 21, 2024 1:23 pm