Project 955: Borei class SSBN

Unammed sources strike again.

Borei has been made for years and already ready for service, and already floating around carrying hypersonic missiles (Bulava drops faster than mach 10).

Americans are stupid. Along with people peddling their sources

Yeh this person with firsthand knowledge should know at least that Borei II has 16 Bulavas.

And what sources for surface fleet were cut? Naval construction hasn't seen such speed since late 80s.

Borei SSGN version, pretty please Navy!!!

verkhoturye51 wrote:
And what sources for surface fleet were cut? Naval construction hasn't seen such speed since late 80s.

CVNs postponed to 2030s Liders too, instead of 11356 you have 22800. It doesnt look like budget increases to me.

PapaDragon wrote:Borei SSGN version, pretty please Navy!!!

if Bulava gets Avangard warheads it should be just fine

Yeh this person with firsthand knowledge should know at least that Borei II has 16 Bulavas.

Firsthand knowledge of the Wiki page for Borei class
Literally there is nothing not already widely public in that text & the failure to update the missile count is just laughable fail.

Probably this is a tie-in to the recent UK propaganda bit about 'Yasen-A' supposedly hanging around Faslane & which had a fairly prominent mention of Borei-A for no good reason.

The scary thing is that loyal readers and patriotic americans will believe this shit and think... crap... by 2024 the Russians might have nuclear weapons that can reach US cities... oh... no... now when the next elections come up and one of the candidates says they want to reduce the war budget... how will they react?

Surely they need to increase the budget to deal with this potential new threat from Russia... america cannot be left vulnerable to Russian nuclear attack... it is just unamerican!

Borei will never have 20 launch tubes... it is simply not going to happen... don't they understand the concept of "all your eggs in one basket"?

Of course with belligerent Trump in charge, with the potential for crazy hilary or some replicant that wants to show the democrats are harder on Russia than trump was, then I guess there will be no replacement for the new start treaty and they might have super SSBNs with 30 SLBMs per boat, but I suspect it would be rather more likely they just build more boats and some SLBM barges they can tow around with nuclear icebreakers...

With Bulava SLBM testing over, they could return D. Donskoi SSBN to the fleet with its 20 tubes; to stay in SALT, they can deactivate/convert 1/2 older Deltas. Icebreakers r needed to help surface ships on the NSR & expeditions to the Antarctic.

Borei will never have 20 launch tubes... it is simply not going to happen... don't they understand the concept of "all your eggs in one basket"? wrote:

It's a mistake. Russia needs a much larger nuclear arsenal

Arrow wrote:

It's a mistake. Russia needs a much larger nuclear arsenal

They are limited to international treaties and they already have the biggesr nuclear arsenal.

16 launch tubes means they can build more borei so more plateforms so more survivability.

Arrow wrote:

Borei will never have 20 launch tubes... it is simply not going to happen... don't they understand the concept of "all your eggs in one basket"? wrote:

It's a mistake. Russia needs a much larger nuclear arsenal

No, Russia needs larger and more uniform SSBN fleet which they are now finally getting with 6 more Borei-A ordered instead of waiting for 4 Borei-B.

14 Boreis with 16 missiles each = 224 missiles. 6 to 10 warheads on every missile = 1.344 to 2.240 warheads. This is more than allowed by the last START treaty.

New start allows Russia 1550 deployed warheads...Boreis will have 14*16*6=1344 warheads. 6 each missile.

verkhoturye51 wrote:New start allows Russia 1550 deployed warheads...Boreis will have 14*16*6=1344 warheads. 6 each missile.

Just like on the RN & probably USN subs on patrol, it's possible that not all tubes r filled with BMs: https://fas.org/nuke/guide/uk/slbm/d-5.htm

With Bulava SLBM testing over, they could return D. Donskoi SSBN to the fleet with its 20 tubes; to stay in SALT, they can deactivate/convert 1/2 older Deltas. Icebreakers r needed to help surface ships on the NSR & expeditions to the Antarctic.

The DD didn't have 20 tubes able to launch Bulavas... it only had a couple as far as I am aware so the best you could hope for is to load 1 or 2 Bulavas and 18 or 19 Sinevas... and even then you would have to ask yourself why... it makes rather more sense to have a higher number of subs with slightly fewer missiles each than a couple of subs with huge numbers of missiles on each.

It's a mistake. Russia needs a much larger nuclear arsenal

Much cheaper to develop 10,000km range cruise missiles and then make thousands.

New start allows Russia 1550 deployed warheads...Boreis will have 14*16*6=1344 warheads. 6 each missile.

SLBMs are usually counted as having something like 3 warheads no matter how many it actually has.

Plus by the time they actually have 14 Boreis in service all the Deltas will be gone and the Akulas, and most of the first few Boreis will likely be converted into cruise missile carriers...

The new modification of the Borey submarines is too expensive.
The 1st 3 may be upgraded to A later.

Thats talking about abandoning Borey B which we knew about when that article was posted.
Doesn't say anything about changing the first 3 to A, even explicitly not

A total of 14 such submarines will serve in the Russian Navy: 3 ordinary and 11 in modification "A"

Doesn't say anything about changing the first 3 to A, even explicitly not

I wrote: The 1st 3 may be upgraded to A later.
So, it may or may not happen; or they could be upgraded to near A standard. Time will tell!

Tsavo Lion wrote:

Doesn't say anything about changing the first 3 to A, even explicitly not

I wrote: The 1st 3 may be upgraded to A later.
So, it may or may not happen; or they could be upgraded to near A standard. Time will tell!

When it comes to conversion of first 3, that's a discussion to be had in about decade or so. In the meantime they work just fine.

Borei-B is not cancelled but it's on the distant back burner because improvements​ do not justify increased price (almost 50%)

Also, it would mean they would only get 4 Borei-B​ instead of 6 Borei-A with all accompanying delays that brand new platform would include.

This decision was made several months after Knyaz Vladimir started trials so quite possible that they are quite satisfied with Borei-A and that they don't see the need to push the whole thing into needless excess.

PapaDragon wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:

Doesn't say anything about changing the first 3 to A, even explicitly not

I wrote: The 1st 3 may be upgraded to A later.
So, it may or may not happen; or they could be upgraded to near A standard. Time will tell!

When it comes to conversion of first 3, that's a discussion to be had in about decade or so. In the meantime they work just fine.

Borei-B is not cancelled but it's on the distant back burner because improvements​ do not justify increased price (almost 50%)

Also, it would mean they would only get 4 Borei-B​ instead of 6 Borei-A with all accompanying delays that brand new platform would include.

This decision was made several months after Knyaz Vladimir started trials so quite possible that they are quite satisfied with Borei-A and that they don't see the need to push the whole thing into needless excess.

Good analysis, right on the mark. Its somewhat like Gorshkovs' old maxim "good enough is good enough". No need to force-feed the (state-owned) MIC with additional funds to improve a design that is already adequate.

Knyaz Vladimir started factory trials on 28th November and dived for the first time.



Borei no. 11 & 12 to start production in 2024.

And here be photo of young debutante, dark, grainy and low res in best tradition of Cold War

In the old cold war there would have been no lights on the sub.

verkhoturye51 wrote:Knyaz Vladimir started factory trials on 28th November and dived for the first time.



Borei no. 11 & 12 to start production in 2024.

Not a pic of Knyaz Vladimir.

Edit: just incase there was any remaining doubt about the missile count Google Earth did catch it with the hatches open (exposure like that is part of START or something isn't it?)

verkhoturye51 wrote:Knyaz Vladimir started factory trials on 28th November and dived for the first time.



Borei no. 11 & 12 to start production in 2024.

Borei no 9th and 10th

Russia to build 2 more Borei-A strategic nuclear-powered submarines by 2028

The Russian Navy currently operates three Project 955 Borei submarines

MOSCOW, November 30. /TASS/. Russia will build two more Project 955A Borei-A serial-produced nuclear-powered strategic submarines at the Sevmash Shipyard and their total number will rise to ten, a source in the defense industry told TASS on Friday.

"The state armament program for 2018-2027 includes the construction of two more Project 955A Borei submarines that have not yet received their names. The construction will begin at the Sevmash in 2024," the source said, adding that "the first submarine should be delivered to the Fleet in 2026 and the second in 2027."

The Russian Navy currently operates three Project 955 Borei submarines. The Project 955A Borei-A lead submarine is undergoing shipbuilders’ sea trials and four serial-produced Project 955A submarines have been laid down and are under construction, the source said.

"With the keel-laying of two more underwater cruisers, the number of Project 955 and Project 955A strategic submarines in the Russian Navy will rise to ten. Five of them will be operational in the Northern Fleet and the other five in the Pacific Fleet," the source said.


More:
http://tass.com/defense/1033658

About these 2 more: they previously announced there would be 6 more Borei-A to be laid down 'after 2023' http://tass.com/defense/1005356
There have been 8 Boreis laid down/completed so far -> 14 total announced.
Is it announcing increasing the total to 16? Or changing the keel laying of that additional 6 to 'after 2024'?