Ukraine-Russia Relations and Future developments

splidt the ukraine and join the eastern part and crimea to russia .

The Ukraine is pursuing a self-destructive policy.. but.. welp.. it's up to them!

Have a nice trip fellas, see ya next fall!

russia must take interest to save as much as it can ,there are allot of russians and pro-rus-ukranians there.

Rpg type 7v wrote:splidt the ukraine and join the eastern part and crimea to russia .

Meh, better split Poland, and have the western part slave to Germany again...the eastern part belongs to Russia anyway  

macedonian wrote:

Rpg type 7v wrote:splidt the ukraine and join the eastern part and crimea to russia .

Meh, better split Poland, and have the western part slave to Germany again...the eastern part belongs to Russia anyway  

What ye sayin'...?

If so, then I would prefer being a Russian than a German. 

We need to ALL get along  

As Sa'iqa wrote:What ye sayin'...?
If so, then I would prefer being a Russian than a German. 

Can't say I blame you, we all know how the Krouts treat the Slavs... 
But than again, we also know how the Russians treat their own...oh, it's such a mess...I can't scale the pros and the cons... 

flamming_python wrote:We need to ALL get along

Spoken like a true prodigy (if Mr.Wolf can say so)

Rpg type 7v wrote:splidt the ukraine and join the eastern part and crimea to russia .

Who is going to do the splitting?


And screw getting parts of Ukraine, Russia has enough mess on its hands to clean up.

TR1 wrote:Who is going to do the splitting?

The league of nations?! Before a major war?!  
Or maybe tanks roll in from one side, and from the other....oh I'm gettin' way ahead of myself here... 

TR1 wrote:And screw getting parts of Ukraine, Russia has enough mess on its hands to clean up.

Wait 'till you start gettin' parts of Alaska back, then you'll get your handful   

TR1 wrote:

Rpg type 7v wrote:splidt the ukraine and join the eastern part and crimea to russia .

Who is going to do the splitting?  


And screw getting parts of Ukraine, Russia has enough mess on its hands to clean up.

8,5 million russians in ukraine plus few more million pro rus mixed ukranians , russia would have 155 mill population.
didnt west teach you how to create separatist and secessionist movements ,NGOs , stories about minorities oppresion, TV propaganda  etc

Rpg type 7v wrote:8,5 million russians in ukraine plus few more million pro rus mixed ukranians , russia would have 155 mill population.
didnt west teach you how to create separatist and secessionist movements ,NGOs , stories about minorities oppresion, TV propaganda  etc

Hahaha, I like your style Rpg, I like your style

But in all seriousness - that place is a lot more trouble than it's worth.

But certainly a lot of potential, especially agricultural. With good governance Ukraine should be able to boast a population of more than 120 milions instead of current 40.
And don’t forget that the best tank designing bureau Is located in Kharkiv.

Rpg type 7v wrote:

TR1 wrote:

Rpg type 7v wrote:splidt the ukraine and join the eastern part and crimea to russia .

Who is going to do the splitting?  


And screw getting parts of Ukraine, Russia has enough mess on its hands to clean up.

8,5 million russians in ukraine plus few more million pro rus mixed ukranians , russia would have 155 mill population.
didnt west teach you how to create separatist and secessionist movements ,NGOs , stories about minorities oppresion, TV propaganda  etc

Yeah but its only legit when the West does it.

If Russia does it it will be the new axis of evil.

In all seriousness, population numbers alone are meaningless.

As Sa'iqa wrote:But certainly a lot of potential, especially agricultural. With good governance Ukraine should be able to boast a population of more than 120 milions instead of current 40.
And don’t forget that the best tank designing bureau Is located in Kharkiv.

Used to be the best tank designing bureau, now it is decaying leftovers. Sad reality.

Maybe Crimea would end up back in Russia's hands. They would probably do better at upkeeping it. Well, technically Russia has been upkeeping it with its investments there and the Universities funded by them.

In other news: Russia got an LNG deal with spain:
http://www.enerdata.net/enerdatauk/press-and-publication/energy-news-001/gas-natural-fenosa-signs-long-term-deal-yamal-lng-russia_23408.html

sepheronx wrote:Maybe Crimea would end up back in Russia's hands. They would probably do better at upkeeping it. Well, technically Russia has been upkeeping it with its investments there and the Universities funded by them.

In other news: Russia got an LNG deal with spain:
http://www.enerdata.net/enerdatauk/press-and-publication/energy-news-001/gas-natural-fenosa-signs-long-term-deal-yamal-lng-russia_23408.html

Crimeria by law goes to Turkey if Russian army pull back from there. In other words as long as there is a Russian military presence the land belongs to Russia.

Belarus will replace many Ukrainian components and don't forget on Kazakhstan. UVZ will produce BMPT together with Kazakhstan, so maybe Russia will develop some military industry in Kazakhstan too. Russia already produce helicopter engines, so they only have to increase production. Migs and Sukhois are fully domestic as well as Tupolev. AGAT is from Belarus. Maybe ship engines are problematic, but engines could be bought in South Korea in the mean time.

Anyway, Russian industrial production will well increase in coming years to replace imports from Ukraine and from EU, what will bring more jobs and money to citizens and more money will stay at home. Exports will increase too as many places in the World see the West as unreliable partner with heavy shadow of US sanctions behind. Russia will export no less oil and gas as to now as well as food, which is mostly sold to Arabs. Export of industrial products will increase.

Stopping cooperation with Russia will bring Ukraine in bankruptcy in following months. They could not export their products to the West as well as to other customers as unreliable partner.

Moscow May Be Forced to Demand Early Repayment of $3Bln Debt by Kiev:Source

The breach of the conditions of granting a bonded loan to Ukraine may prompt Moscow to demand a repayment of the $3 billion debt by Kiev in the near future, a government source suggests.

MOSCOW, January 10 (Sputnik) — A whole range of parameters which are the conditions of granting a Russian bonded loan to Ukraine, are being violated, a source in the Russian government said Saturday.

"The situation that is emerging in the economy and finances of Ukraine suggests that a number of parameters, which are the conditions of granting Ukraine a Russian bonded loan are violated," the source said.

He also added that under these circumstances "it is likely that Russia will have to demand from Ukraine in the near future early repayment of the $3 billion debt."

Ukraine has been struggling to find a way out of a monetary crisis that has left the country’s economy in difficulty. To help restore the economy, authorities in Kiev have sought financial assistance from international financial institutions.

In spring, the IMF promised Ukraine a total of $17 billion in bailout loans, to be provided over the course of two years. So far, Ukraine has received two tranches, amounting to $4.55 billion.

Financial assistance to Kiev is also provided by the World Bank, EBRD (European Bank for Reconstruction and Development), European Investment Bank and a number of countries. Overall in 2014, Ukraine received financial assistance amounting to about $9 billion. The total national debt for 11 months of 2014 amounted to $69.3 billion.

In December 2013, Russia made a decision to issue Ukraine a loan of $15 billion and bought Ukraine’s first Eurobonds in the amount of $3 billion.

In November 2014, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Russia would not demand Kiev to make an early repayment of Eurobonds in a bid to help Ukraine restore its financial system.

George1 wrote:In November 2014, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that Russia would not demand Kiev to make an early repayment of Eurobonds in a bid to help Ukraine restore its financial system.

WTF?

Pandering to the West?

Demand that shit back right now!

Russia to substitute for 700 weapon components of Ukrainian origin 2015 — Defense Minister

Poroshenko says Ukraine will need no Russian gas in 2 years

George1 wrote:Poroshenko says Ukraine will need no Russian gas in 2 years

This the school yard level of political discourse in Ukraine. They think that reverse flow from Poland will be the equivalent of
buying discounted gas from Russia. Until Poland gets LNG from Qatar and the USA, it will be using Russian natural gas. Poland
will still be using Russian gas 4 years from now and later. There will not be enough LNG port capacity in the EU for a long while
and most important, there is no supply of 163 billion cubic meters of LNG on the market which the EU can use to replace Russian
supplies. Also, Gazprom has already denied Poland and others extra gas shipments to reverse flow to Ukraine.

So Ukraine will have nothing in 2 years.

kvs wrote:

George1 wrote:Poroshenko says Ukraine will need no Russian gas in 2 years

This the school yard level of political discourse in Ukraine.   They think that reverse flow from Poland will be the equivalent of
buying discounted gas from Russia.   Until Poland gets LNG from Qatar and the USA, it will be using Russian natural gas.   Poland
will still be using Russian gas 4 years from now and later.   There will not be enough LNG port capacity in the EU for a long while
and most important, there is no supply of 163 billion cubic meters of LNG on the market which the EU can use to replace Russian
supplies.  Also, Gazprom has already denied Poland and others extra gas shipments to reverse flow to Ukraine.

So Ukraine will have nothing in 2 years.  

Add to that, importing LNG is very expensive compared to the pipeline Russia has (NORD Stream). So if Ukrainians are happy spending more on gas, then all the power to them. Just isn't a smart move. Actually, as evident to their current economic policies, nothing they done has been smart.

But, who cares. Like Gazprom said, Europe will have to get its gas from the gas hub between Greece and Turkey.

A very good summary of the ukrainian crisis, i highly recommend to read it
http://periscope2.ru/2015/01/19/8298/#facebook

Kremlin says chance of Normandy format meeting over Ukraine dwindles