The Situation in the Ukraine. #23

sepheronx wrote:Such as whom?  Nationalist vs Neo Nazi's are two different things.

The nationalist magazine Sputnik i Pogrom which is anti-Kremlin and does support Novorossiya.
Interestingly, their chief editor did manage to predict Putin's Syrian adventure and linked it with a retreat from Donbass.

sepheronx wrote:Did you also know Russian Youth group is considered nationalist even though they fight for the concept of democracy?

There is technically no contradiction between supporting nationalism and democracy (at the same time).

sepheronx wrote:The illegal coal trade was done via an oligarch that was arrested for it.

Yes, and I doubt this is the end of it.
More people were certainly involved and there is the temptation to continue this trade.

sepheronx wrote:Pantsir has a lot to do with it.  You think Putin would support people in the LNR with newer/modern equipment if it will simply give itself in?  No.

Was the Pantsir transfered to the NAF for good or is it still crewed by Russian servicemen and property of the Russian Federation?

kvs wrote:

x_54_u43 wrote:It honestly would not surprise me if GRU(FSB operates only inside Russia's borders) had a hand in some of this, you all know that the Russian Federation does not want the LPR and DPR to become seperate territories from the Ukraine, right?

If they do, then NATO could accept Ukraine as a member, since it technically won't have any border disputes to settle. Of course, those fighting in Novorossiya might not be so ecstatic about remaining a part of the Ukraine to serve as a barrier to NATO membership, so naturally they would push for secession, thus putting the Federation's interests at risk. For this, they payed the ultimate price...


Game of Thrones stuff right here.

Non sequitur inference.  If the Kremlin was going to engage in this sort of meddling just keep the DNR and LNR part of Ukraine, it would have
left them alone from April of 2014 and let Kiev roll over them.    

Kremlin done that time and again, it's politics within boundaries. That's all. The Kremlin doesn't want DNR/LNR in current Ukraine, it only needs them in for the time being. When time's right, both LNR and DNR will either cease to exist, or indeed become something bigger. Given how small that territory is in absolute terms, Ukraine cannot make a deal with them. It could if the areas affected were bigger, not smaller. That's the paradox of this. So in that sense, Russia is still playing.


On the Dremov case, there are 2 variants, none of them pretty.

A. Dremov was scwhacked because not willing to bow down and poked the ruling gang and exposed their corruption (I'm willing to belive this).
B. Dremov was part of the dealings, only got sidelined, so he exposed the rest of them. (Also belivable).

KoTeMoRe wrote:

kvs wrote:

x_54_u43 wrote:It honestly would not surprise me if GRU(FSB operates only inside Russia's borders) had a hand in some of this, you all know that the Russian Federation does not want the LPR and DPR to become seperate territories from the Ukraine, right?

If they do, then NATO could accept Ukraine as a member, since it technically won't have any border disputes to settle. Of course, those fighting in Novorossiya might not be so ecstatic about remaining a part of the Ukraine to serve as a barrier to NATO membership, so naturally they would push for secession, thus putting the Federation's interests at risk. For this, they payed the ultimate price...


Game of Thrones stuff right here.

Non sequitur inference.  If the Kremlin was going to engage in this sort of meddling just keep the DNR and LNR part of Ukraine, it would have
left them alone from April of 2014 and let Kiev roll over them.    

Kremlin done that time and again, it's politics within boundaries. That's all. The Kremlin doesn't want DNR/LNR in current Ukraine, it only needs them in for the time being. When time's right, both LNR and DNR will either cease to exist, or indeed become something bigger. Given how small that territory is in absolute terms, Ukraine cannot make a deal with them. It could if the areas affected were bigger, not smaller. That's the paradox of this. So in that sense, Russia is still playing.


On the Dremov case, there are 2 variants, none of them pretty.

A. Dremov was scwhacked because not willing to bow down and poked the ruling gang and exposed their corruption (I'm willing to belive this).
B. Dremov was part of the dealings, only got sidelined, so he exposed the rest of them. (Also belivable).

Thanks! I agree with this viewpoint.

Khepesh wrote:

kvs wrote:To the tin foil hat crew: the mafia sorting would be done after the conflict is over and not in the middle of it.
Mafias are not that stupid.   If they undermine their ability to secure the territory for the future, then they lose
everything.   A rather straightforward business concept for them to understand.  

And please spare the Kremlin machinations crap.   The Kremlin supplies the arms, the advisers and the intelligence.  
It does not run the local show in LNR and DNR.    The claim that Russia is killing off all these brilliant commanders  
is exactly the same sort of shit that the Kiev butchers are peddling, that Russia "invaded" poor dear Banderastan,
aka country 404.   And if the thesis is that the Kremlin wants to soften up the Novorussians for some deal with
NATO and Banderastan, then why the f*ck would it have helped them to stave off the Kiev assault since early 2014.
The Kremlin could have sat and done nothing and it would have avoided the sanctions and the rest of the crisis
with NATO.   Obviously this thesis is BS.    

Perhaps you can provide a rational explanation for the four murders, like explain why all four are in Lugansk and none in Donetsk, like all four were not political or commercial allies of Plotnitsky, like Dremov was to expose Plotnitsky's corruption. Your post simply backs up my claim that the curious defence of Plotnitsky is only about seeing him as Putin's hand and so an accusation against Plotnitsky is to be treated as an attack on Putin, quelle horreur!, which it is not. Read this from November 2014 written after the first attempt on Mozgovoi and honestly say it is "tin foil hat" in the light of what had already occured and has occured since. http://n-ostenbaken.livejournal.com/2134.html What was said by some even further back after the murder of Ishchenko has become reality, and after Mozgovoi it became obvious to many who were skeptical about all this that there is something very wrong in Lugansk and that the writing was on the wall for Dremov, well, now the writing is on his gravestone.

And where is your rational explanation for "the Kremlin did it"? I don't see a hint of a shred of any evidence.

You are obviously not even responding to my points but putting in your own tin foil hat strawmen and then attacking them.

Was it Dremov who was arrested a month or so ago, coming back across the border from Russia into Donbass?

Can someone refresh my memory about that incident??

kvs wrote:

And where is your rational explanation for "the Kremlin did it"?   I don't see a hint of a shred of any evidence.  

You are obviously not even responding to my points but putting in your own tin foil hat strawmen and then attacking them.

Show any post by me where I say that "the Kremlin did it" or intimate that "the Kremlin did it". I have intimated that Plotnitsky may be involved, and if you see Plotnitsky as the hand of Putin, and so is untouchable, then that is your affair. Four murders in LNR of prominent men who have crossed Plotnitsky in some way and not only can you not see the link, you do not want anybody to mention that there may be a link, curious....

^ It was the affair about Purgin.

"The supply of electricity from Ukraine to Crimea is possible under some conditions. This was stated at a meeting between the country’s president Petro Poroshenko and Ukrainian MP Mustafa Dzhemilev, who calls himself the leader of the Crimean Tatar people. The meeting discussed signing a new contract after the end of the current deal on 31 December. I was told that the contract renewal is only possible under certain conditions. First, the document must not be signed between state-owned enterprises in Russia and Ukraine, and especially not with the participation of a person who is wanted between the relevant ministries (head of “Krymenergo” Viktor Plakida) —the Ukrainian edition of “Weekly Mirror” reported, quoting Dzhemilev.

He also stated that the Treaty of Crimea should not include the term “Crimean Federal district”, and “Autonomous Republic of Crimea”, with “of the Russian Federation temporarily occupied territory of Ukraine” in brackets. Another condition is “the release of political prisoners”. According to Dzhemilev, Poroshenko agreed to these terms. Recall that the Peninsula was left without electricity from Ukraine in the night of the 21st to 22nd of November. The reason for this was the bombings of power lines leading to the Peninsula from Ukraine. After long negotiations between the organizers of the blockade and the authorities of Ukraine, they failed to persuade them to let the repairmen fix the wires.

On the 2nd of December, the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin, took part in launching the first leg of the power bridge from mainland Russia to Crimea. This month it is planned to fully launch the first stage of the power bridge, in preparation for the second stage. Thus, it will fully cover the needs of the Peninsula’s electricity demand and a supply from Ukraine will no longer be needed.
It is the same situation with the food blockade. Ukrainian products are being completely replaced by Russian ones in Crimea, deliveries of which are reinforced by arms."

Source: http://www.therussophile.org/dzhemilev-and-poroshenko-outline-the-conditions-for-a-new-supply-of-electricity-to-crimea.html/

Militarov wrote:"The supply of electricity from Ukraine to Crimea is possible under some conditions. This was stated at a meeting between the country’s president Petro Poroshenko and Ukrainian MP Mustafa Dzhemilev, who calls himself the leader of the Crimean Tatar people. The meeting discussed signing a new contract after the end of the current deal on 31 December.  I was told that the contract renewal is only possible under certain conditions. First, the document must not be signed between state-owned enterprises in Russia and Ukraine, and especially not with the participation of a person who is wanted between the relevant ministries (head of “Krymenergo” Viktor Plakida) —the Ukrainian edition of “Weekly Mirror” reported, quoting Dzhemilev.

He also stated that the Treaty of Crimea should not include the term “Crimean Federal district”, and “Autonomous Republic of Crimea”, with “of the Russian Federation temporarily occupied territory of Ukraine” in brackets. Another condition is “the release of political prisoners”. According to Dzhemilev, Poroshenko agreed to these terms.  Recall that the Peninsula was left without electricity from Ukraine in the night of the 21st to 22nd of November. The reason for this was the bombings of power lines leading to the Peninsula from Ukraine. After long negotiations between the organizers of the blockade and the authorities of Ukraine, they failed to persuade them to let the repairmen fix the wires.

On the 2nd of December, the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin, took part in launching the first leg of the power bridge from mainland Russia to Crimea. This month it is planned to fully launch the first stage of the power bridge, in preparation for the second stage. Thus, it will fully cover the needs of the Peninsula’s electricity demand and a supply from Ukraine will no longer be needed.
It is the same situation with the food blockade. Ukrainian products are being completely replaced by Russian ones in Crimea, deliveries of which are reinforced by arms."

Source: http://www.therussophile.org/dzhemilev-and-poroshenko-outline-the-conditions-for-a-new-supply-of-electricity-to-crimea.html/

Yeah, chances are, there wont be a second contract at all and Russia/Crimea will give Kiev the middle finger. They used up their hand already on this and will have nothing more in the future.

Good, they made Russia's job a whole lot easier.

flamming_python wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Dremov was murdered by the "odd" people in Lugansk. After the murder of Ischenko it became obvious about Lugansk, the murders of Bednov and Mozgovoi simply added confirmation. It was said when Mozgovoi was mudered that Dremov will be next and that he needs to become very quiet, or leave LNR. He became quiet, but that was not enough to save him from those who control Lugansk. Anybody who continues to deny the obvious is pissing against the wind.

Are they trying to bring back Stalin's era there or what. Someone needs to go there and liquidate these murderous rats.

Not a word on this on Sputnik or other Russian media sources. Gee I'm really surprised. Not.

That must be proof it is part of Putin's plot. Or just maybe it proves that Russia is not going to wipe the bums of these idiots
and hold their hand. How about the locals clean up shop? Or does Russia have to clean it up for them. It is this welfare
leech thought process that is at the root of all of Ukraine's real problems.

kvs wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Dremov was murdered by the "odd" people in Lugansk. After the murder of Ischenko it became obvious about Lugansk, the murders of Bednov and Mozgovoi simply added confirmation. It was said when Mozgovoi was mudered that Dremov will be next and that he needs to become very quiet, or leave LNR. He became quiet, but that was not enough to save him from those who control Lugansk. Anybody who continues to deny the obvious is pissing against the wind.

Are they trying to bring back Stalin's era there or what. Someone needs to go there and liquidate these murderous rats.

Not a word on this on Sputnik or other Russian media sources. Gee I'm really surprised. Not.

That must be proof it is part of Putin's plot.   Or just maybe it proves that Russia is not going to wipe the bums of these idiots
and hold their hand.   How about the locals clean up shop?   Or does Russia have to clean it up for them.   It is this welfare
leech thought process that is at the root of all of Ukraine's real problems.

And Russia's. Russians complain a lot about their economics but they don't seem to realize how much their social benefits and low taxation is costing them compared to most countries. Heck, most countries with similar social benefits, are taxed more than doubled what Russians are. But oh no, it is Dumas fault. Like I am reading on this very thread.

They are twitching in LPR and reported movements in DNR also.

“IMPORTANT: high threat of terrorist attacks and sabotage by special services of Ukraine in LPR, UAF continues moving vehicles”

The situation along the contact line in the LPR and the UAF remain tense. This was reported to Russian Spring by the People’s Militia of the LPR.

The deputy head of the People’s Militia Corps, Igor Yashchenko, said today (December 13) that “the threat of terrorist acts and sabotage by the special services and sabotage groups of Ukraine remains” in the republic. “In connection with this, we have increased vigilance and security measures in military units and administrative buildings. The protection of the military command’s offices, vital facilities, transport communications, and block posts on the republic’s side of the contact line and border is being stepped up.

http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/lpr-hikes-security-measures-and-urges.html

flamming_python wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Dremov was murdered by the "odd" people in Lugansk. After the murder of Ischenko it became obvious about Lugansk, the murders of Bednov and Mozgovoi simply added confirmation. It was said when Mozgovoi was mudered that Dremov will be next and that he needs to become very quiet, or leave LNR. He became quiet, but that was not enough to save him from those who control Lugansk. Anybody who continues to deny the obvious is pissing against the wind.

Are they trying to bring back Stalin's era there or what. Someone needs to go there and liquidate these murderous rats.

Not a word on this on Sputnik or other Russian media sources. Gee I'm really surprised. Not.

How is this different from the US rigging two votes to have Karzai president for life while the mother-fucker was a drug dealer, human trafficker, arms trader and degenerate? He created ANP hit squads to kill poppy farmer that wouldn't pay dope tax, while promising to eradicate the damn thing.

sepheronx wrote:

Militarov wrote:"The supply of electricity from Ukraine to Crimea is possible under some conditions. This was stated at a meeting between the country’s president Petro Poroshenko and Ukrainian MP Mustafa Dzhemilev, who calls himself the leader of the Crimean Tatar people. The meeting discussed signing a new contract after the end of the current deal on 31 December.  I was told that the contract renewal is only possible under certain conditions. First, the document must not be signed between state-owned enterprises in Russia and Ukraine, and especially not with the participation of a person who is wanted between the relevant ministries (head of “Krymenergo” Viktor Plakida) —the Ukrainian edition of “Weekly Mirror” reported, quoting Dzhemilev.

He also stated that the Treaty of Crimea should not include the term “Crimean Federal district”, and “Autonomous Republic of Crimea”, with “of the Russian Federation temporarily occupied territory of Ukraine” in brackets. Another condition is “the release of political prisoners”. According to Dzhemilev, Poroshenko agreed to these terms.  Recall that the Peninsula was left without electricity from Ukraine in the night of the 21st to 22nd of November. The reason for this was the bombings of power lines leading to the Peninsula from Ukraine. After long negotiations between the organizers of the blockade and the authorities of Ukraine, they failed to persuade them to let the repairmen fix the wires.

On the 2nd of December, the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin, took part in launching the first leg of the power bridge from mainland Russia to Crimea. This month it is planned to fully launch the first stage of the power bridge, in preparation for the second stage. Thus, it will fully cover the needs of the Peninsula’s electricity demand and a supply from Ukraine will no longer be needed.
It is the same situation with the food blockade. Ukrainian products are being completely replaced by Russian ones in Crimea, deliveries of which are reinforced by arms."

Source: http://www.therussophile.org/dzhemilev-and-poroshenko-outline-the-conditions-for-a-new-supply-of-electricity-to-crimea.html/

Yeah, chances are, there wont be a second contract at all and Russia/Crimea will give Kiev the middle finger.  They used up their hand already on this and will have nothing more in the future.

Good, they made Russia's job a whole lot easier.

It is just me or in Ukraina a single MP is more powerful than the President of the country ?

Or the current Ukrainian goverment is just for fun ?

Not sure but i assume its Novorossia

I happen to see this pic.



The text is a translation of one part in this interview

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWJafcQW4AAV8Bj.png (in Russian)

Anybody can translate the interview ? Thank you very much.

flamming_python wrote:

Khepesh wrote:Dremov was murdered by the "odd" people in Lugansk. After the murder of Ishchenko it became obvious about Lugansk, the murders of Bednov and Mozgovoi simply added confirmation. It was said when Mozgovoi was mudered that Dremov will be next and that he needs to become very quiet, or leave LNR. He became quiet, but that was not enough to save him from those who control Lugansk. Anybody who continues to deny the obvious is pissing against the wind.

Are they trying to bring back Stalin's era there or what. Someone needs to go there and liquidate these murderous rats.

Not a word on this on Sputnik or other Russian media sources. Gee I'm really surprised. Not.

Well, I am also not surprised, or by the reactions to this murder by "friends" of the guilty in Lugansk.

Militarov wrote:

Not sure but i assume its Novorossia

Look at the barrel, someone took the instruction 'weapons to ploughshares' literally by the look of it and prematurely, hence the cleanup.

Another excellent work of Maidanists

https://www.rt.com/business/325842-ukraine-economy-contraction-inflation/

The Ukrainian economy is set to contract 12 percent this year, while inflation is forecast to reach 50.8 percent, according to the World Bank.

(...)

With more than 50 percent inflation banks have practically stopped bankrolling the economy. The lending rate is about 30 percent per year in Ukrainian hryvnia. The national currency has lost 50 percent of its value in 2015, boosting inflation.

The World Bank estimates the Ukrainian economy will grow one percent in 2016 (or may not, who knows, we are talking about Maidan goverment), and inflation is projected to hit 23.4 percent next year.

Ukraine's economy hits rock bottom

Ah I don't think so, considering the current mental status of Porkie et al. I believe they can sink Ukraina economy deeper.

Further on how the murder of Dremov is covered, or not covered as the case appears to be, at least not on what is meant to be news outlets for supposedly Russophile foreigners.

Search results on RT and Sputnik for Pavel Dremov





On Russian side of RT for Павел Дрёмов to see what they say. Only result shows for Joseph Kobzon, curious


And to see what Russian MSM have, and it can be seen the story is covered.



Googling in English brings very few results, which is not really surprising, except nothing from the news outlets aimed at foreign audience, which is very curious. Google/Yandex in Russian of course brings many results including about his murder.

On Fortruss is a comment that I will not repeat here that accuses Dremov of commiting suicide by default. This comment is from one of the posters who are, at face value, supporters of Donbass, but the reality is they are not as their posts on such places as Fortruss, and elswhere, show they despise the people of Donbass, except of course the "odd" people in Lugansk. That particular poster on Fortruss should be thrown into hell, and fast, but of course his sick comments will be wellcomed by the apologists for the murderers of Ishchenko, Bednov, Mozgovoi and Dremov, who are busy on Anglophone networks....

Funeral of Pavel Dremov takes place tomorrow in Stakhanov at 10:00 and there will be a minutes silence in Stakhanov at 12:00

Serious question - Why do you think Russian MSM should cover this ? They are busy with Syria at the moment.

A Cossack commander in LNR was blown up on his way to his own wedding. His driver also died in the attack. This comes at a time when Ukraine is constantly shelling donbass for a few days already.

The People's prosecutor said an enquiry will be made into this.

End of story.

You want to read this in the newspaper ??

The LNR and DNR armies have changed a lot as compared to pre-Debaltsevo or even after Debaltsevo. its not free reign anymore. He was just a military commander now, not anyone of power. Please understand this and dont spread hysteria. Kremlin has nothing to gain from this. Neither does Igor or anyone in LNR.