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Syria shot down a Turkish F-4E the other day and Turks claim it was international waters. Now calling for an Article 4 hearing at NATO.
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JohninMK
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Turkish military involvement in Syria
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GarryB- Posts : 40538
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Could easily have been an engineered excuse for conflict... like the Gulf of Tonkin II incident, or indeed several USN shootdowns in the ME.
nemrod- Posts : 839
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22513439
I have serious doubts about turkish claims, even though I have no clues to confirm my doubts. I don't know if it is a crash, or simply downed by syrians. As near the turkish borders, they are still active and very efficient anti air defence. And Alep is not far, where terrorists are.
I suspect this F-16 was downed, either by air defence, or by a syrian Mig-23 or Mig-29. I was also intrigued by Erdogan's middle may visit to Washington. Anyway, there is something strange in this turkish F-16.
I have serious doubts about turkish claims, even though I have no clues to confirm my doubts. I don't know if it is a crash, or simply downed by syrians. As near the turkish borders, they are still active and very efficient anti air defence. And Alep is not far, where terrorists are.
I suspect this F-16 was downed, either by air defence, or by a syrian Mig-23 or Mig-29. I was also intrigued by Erdogan's middle may visit to Washington. Anyway, there is something strange in this turkish F-16.
Last edited by nemrod on Thu May 23, 2013 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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I think thats the old F-16 you are talking about.
nemrod- Posts : 839
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Old ???Viktor wrote:I think thats the old F-16 you are talking about.
I don't understand what do you mean.
Viktor- Posts : 5796
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Only one Turkey F-16 crashed. In the title of this theme you state that "Another" Turkish F-16 crashes near Syria indicating that
this was the second crash.
this was the second crash.
nemrod- Posts : 839
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Viktor wrote:Only one Turkey F-16 crashed. In the title of this theme you state that "Another" Turkish F-16 crashes near Syria indicating that
this was the second crash.
I edited the title.
gaurav- Posts : 376
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Nemrod wrote: I have serious doubts about turkish claims, even though I have no clues to confirm my doubts. I don't know if it is a crash, or simply downed by syrians. As near the turkish borders, they are still active and very efficient anti air defence.
Good quote. I also think it was shot down. It was upgradee F-16 and there is no chance that it could crashed by accident.
But still I dont know. The visit of Erdgan to U.S is even more suspicious.
connect2raza- Posts : 49
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The Syrian army has confirmed that Turkish warplanes have shot down a Syrian military helicopter.
Early on Tuesday, the army said in a televised statement that the helicopter was "targeted directly by Turkish warplanes."
The statement further described Turkey’s move in downing the helicopter as “hasty", adding that Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's government is trying to escalate tensions with such a move.
"Given that the helicopter was on its way back and that it was not on a combat mission, the hasty Turkish reaction is proof of the true intentions of Erdogan's government towards Syria, which are to create tension and escalate the situation at the border between the two countries," it added.
The statement also noted that the military helicopter was "lost... while it was on a reconnaissance mission to monitor the infiltration of terrorists via the Turkish border".
On Monday, Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc told reporters that a Syrian MI-17 helicopter was downed over the southern province of Hatay after it strayed two kilometers into Turkish airspace.
Arinc said there was no information about the fate of the crew because the helicopter fell on Syrian soil. He also noted that Turkish air defense had repeatedly warned the Syrian helicopter to leave Turkey's airspace before being hit by missiles.
The shooting happened almost a year after Syrian air force shot down a Turkish warplane after it entered Syria's airspace. The plane fell in Syrian waters and near the village of Um al-Touyour. Ankara, however, insisted at the time that the plane had entered Syrian airspace but quickly left when warned, and was shot down in international airspace several minutes later.
Following this incident in June 2012, the Turkish government changed its military rules of engagement towards Syria. From that time on, every military element that approached the Turkish border from Syria would be considered as a threat.
Early on Tuesday, the army said in a televised statement that the helicopter was "targeted directly by Turkish warplanes."
The statement further described Turkey’s move in downing the helicopter as “hasty", adding that Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's government is trying to escalate tensions with such a move.
"Given that the helicopter was on its way back and that it was not on a combat mission, the hasty Turkish reaction is proof of the true intentions of Erdogan's government towards Syria, which are to create tension and escalate the situation at the border between the two countries," it added.
The statement also noted that the military helicopter was "lost... while it was on a reconnaissance mission to monitor the infiltration of terrorists via the Turkish border".
On Monday, Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc told reporters that a Syrian MI-17 helicopter was downed over the southern province of Hatay after it strayed two kilometers into Turkish airspace.
Arinc said there was no information about the fate of the crew because the helicopter fell on Syrian soil. He also noted that Turkish air defense had repeatedly warned the Syrian helicopter to leave Turkey's airspace before being hit by missiles.
The shooting happened almost a year after Syrian air force shot down a Turkish warplane after it entered Syria's airspace. The plane fell in Syrian waters and near the village of Um al-Touyour. Ankara, however, insisted at the time that the plane had entered Syrian airspace but quickly left when warned, and was shot down in international airspace several minutes later.
Following this incident in June 2012, the Turkish government changed its military rules of engagement towards Syria. From that time on, every military element that approached the Turkish border from Syria would be considered as a threat.
ahmedfire- Posts : 2366
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Turkey is losing everything , they lost Egypt after turkish oppose the 30 june revolution in Egypt , it also lost Iran , Syria,Iraq, even can't join the EU, etc
Most of turkish civil products industry come to Arab world not Europe , so they will lose alot ,
US is using turkey to make a trap for syria , after the chemical file failure, US told turkey to down syrian helicopter to make Bashar get angry and fire some BM on turkey which will be a very good reason for US and NATO to get involved in the war to protect turkey from syrian agression
That was also the US plan when israel bombed what it called a naval missiles.
Most of turkish civil products industry come to Arab world not Europe , so they will lose alot ,
US is using turkey to make a trap for syria , after the chemical file failure, US told turkey to down syrian helicopter to make Bashar get angry and fire some BM on turkey which will be a very good reason for US and NATO to get involved in the war to protect turkey from syrian agression
That was also the US plan when israel bombed what it called a naval missiles.
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Turkey paid their revenge for RF-4 that was shot down last year. I wonder how ready are Turkish armed forces, I doubt that they would intervene directly
flamming_python- Posts : 9542
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Erdogan's a fool, a leader with precarious little wisdom or simply an indifference to the long-term consequences of his actions, that has ruled Turkey for far too long.ahmedfire wrote:Turkey is losing everything , they lost Egypt after turkish oppose the 30 june revolution in Egypt , it also lost Iran , Syria,Iraq, even can't join the EU, etc
Most of turkish civil products industry come to Arab world not Europe , so they will lose alot ,
US is using turkey to make a trap for syria , after the chemical file failure, US told turkey to down syrian helicopter to make Bashar get angry and fire some BM on turkey which will be a very good reason for US and NATO to get involved in the war to protect turkey from syrian agression
That was also the US plan when israel bombed what it called a naval missiles.
Yet he's not an idiot as such and knows how to follow the money let's give him that.
Syria I doubt was ever an important market, Egypt perhaps but its economy is doing badly at the moment anyway due to political instability; Iran is also doing badly because of the Western embargo.
The ones who are doing well are as always the fat-cats in Riyadh, Abu-Dhabi, Kuwait city, etc...
Secure in their position due to military and political support from the West; they control the vast majority of the Middle East's oil and gas reserves; they quite literally sit on tons of money, millions of tons and barrels of it in fact.
And they have shown themselves quite willing to award multi-billion dollar arms contracts, oil barrel price discounts and more straightforward forms of bribery to anyone who has shown a willingness to help them achieve their foreign policy goals.
I'm sure Turkey would be amply rewarded.
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Another false flag by Turkey on its own territory and own people to blame Syria to go for NATO alliance against Syria.
Must be the 4th false flag already.
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ISTANBUL - Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan described the leaking on YouTube on Thursday of a recording of top security officials discussing possible military operations in Syria as "villainous" and the government blocked access to the video-sharing site.
The anonymous posting followed similar releases on social media in recent weeks which Erdogan has cast as a plot orchestrated by political enemies to unseat him ahead of March 30 elections. But it took the campaign to a higher level, impinging on the most sensitive areas of national security.
Related: •
Turkey blocks Twitter after Erdogan condemns social media platform
•
Erdogan confirms Turkey downed Syrian jet near border
An anonymous YouTube account posted what it presented as a recording of intelligence chief Hakan Fidan discussing possible military operations in Syria with Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, Deputy Chief of military Staff Yasar Guler and other top officials.
"They even leaked a national security meeting. This is villainous, this is dishonesty...Who are you serving by doing audio surveillance of such an important meeting?" Erdogan declared before supporters at a rally ahead of March 30 local polls that will be a key test of his support amid a corruption scandal.
The foreign ministry described the leak as a "wretched attack" on national security and said those behind it would receive the heaviest punishment. It said some sections of the recording had been manipulated. Reuters was unable to verify the authenticity of the recordings.
The conversation appears to center on a possible operation to secure the tomb of Suleyman Shah, grandfather of the founder of the Ottoman Empire, in an area of northern Syria largely controlled by militant Islamists.
Ankara regards the tomb as sovereign Turkish territory under a treaty signed with France in 1921, when Syria was under French rule. About two dozen Turkish special forces soldiers permanently guard it.
"NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE" Turkey threatened two weeks ago to retaliate for any attack on the tomb following clashes between militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), an al Qaeda breakaway group, and rival rebel groups in the area, east of Aleppo near the Turkish border.
"An operation against ISIL has international legitimacy. We will define it as al Qaeda. There are no issues on the al Qaeda framework. When it comes to the Suleyman Shah tomb, it's about the protection of national soil," a voice presented as that of foreign ministry undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioglu says.
When the discussion turns to the need to justify such an operation, the voice purportedly of Fidan says: "Justification can be created. The matter is to create the will." The Turkish telecoms authority TIB said it had taken an "administrative measure" against YouTube, a week after it blocked access to micro-blogging site Twitter.
A source in Erdogan's office said the video sharing service was blocked as a precaution after the voice recordings created a "national security issue" and said it may lift the ban if YouTube agreed to remove the content.
Google said it was looking into reports that some users in Turkey were unable to access its video-sharing site YouTube, saying there was no technical problem on its side
The anonymous posting followed similar releases on social media in recent weeks which Erdogan has cast as a plot orchestrated by political enemies to unseat him ahead of March 30 elections. But it took the campaign to a higher level, impinging on the most sensitive areas of national security.
Related: •
Turkey blocks Twitter after Erdogan condemns social media platform
•
Erdogan confirms Turkey downed Syrian jet near border
An anonymous YouTube account posted what it presented as a recording of intelligence chief Hakan Fidan discussing possible military operations in Syria with Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, Deputy Chief of military Staff Yasar Guler and other top officials.
"They even leaked a national security meeting. This is villainous, this is dishonesty...Who are you serving by doing audio surveillance of such an important meeting?" Erdogan declared before supporters at a rally ahead of March 30 local polls that will be a key test of his support amid a corruption scandal.
The foreign ministry described the leak as a "wretched attack" on national security and said those behind it would receive the heaviest punishment. It said some sections of the recording had been manipulated. Reuters was unable to verify the authenticity of the recordings.
The conversation appears to center on a possible operation to secure the tomb of Suleyman Shah, grandfather of the founder of the Ottoman Empire, in an area of northern Syria largely controlled by militant Islamists.
Ankara regards the tomb as sovereign Turkish territory under a treaty signed with France in 1921, when Syria was under French rule. About two dozen Turkish special forces soldiers permanently guard it.
"NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE" Turkey threatened two weeks ago to retaliate for any attack on the tomb following clashes between militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), an al Qaeda breakaway group, and rival rebel groups in the area, east of Aleppo near the Turkish border.
"An operation against ISIL has international legitimacy. We will define it as al Qaeda. There are no issues on the al Qaeda framework. When it comes to the Suleyman Shah tomb, it's about the protection of national soil," a voice presented as that of foreign ministry undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioglu says.
When the discussion turns to the need to justify such an operation, the voice purportedly of Fidan says: "Justification can be created. The matter is to create the will." The Turkish telecoms authority TIB said it had taken an "administrative measure" against YouTube, a week after it blocked access to micro-blogging site Twitter.
A source in Erdogan's office said the video sharing service was blocked as a precaution after the voice recordings created a "national security issue" and said it may lift the ban if YouTube agreed to remove the content.
Google said it was looking into reports that some users in Turkey were unable to access its video-sharing site YouTube, saying there was no technical problem on its side
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Syrian air defenses fall down a Turkish drone over Janata village in the countryside of Latakia
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Possibly a US drone
George1- Posts : 18519
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Syrian Forces Down Turkish Drone in Aleppo – Military Source
The Syrian air defense has shot down a drone near the country's largest city, Aleppo, a military source has told Sputnik.
DAMASCUS (Sputnik) – Meanwhile the Syrian Al-Watan daily newspaper reported that the downed drone belonged to Turkey and was flying above Syrian territory with the aim of gathering information on the movement of Syrian armed forces in order to later pass it on to Syrian rebels.
"A small unmanned aircraft was shot down by servicemen to the north of the city of Aleppo," the source said on Tuesday.
Last week, the Syrian Army discovered the remains of a downed US-made drone in the northern suburbs of the port city of Latakia, located about 35 miles from the border with Turkey.
The Syrian army has been fighting against several opposition and rebel groups, including Islamic State extremists and the al-Nusra Front (Jabhat al-Nusra), since the start of a civil war in the country in 2011.
A US-led international coalition has been launching airstrikes against ISIL targets in Syria since September, 2014.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150325/1019971721.html#ixzz3VOSreWFe
The Syrian air defense has shot down a drone near the country's largest city, Aleppo, a military source has told Sputnik.
DAMASCUS (Sputnik) – Meanwhile the Syrian Al-Watan daily newspaper reported that the downed drone belonged to Turkey and was flying above Syrian territory with the aim of gathering information on the movement of Syrian armed forces in order to later pass it on to Syrian rebels.
"A small unmanned aircraft was shot down by servicemen to the north of the city of Aleppo," the source said on Tuesday.
Last week, the Syrian Army discovered the remains of a downed US-made drone in the northern suburbs of the port city of Latakia, located about 35 miles from the border with Turkey.
The Syrian army has been fighting against several opposition and rebel groups, including Islamic State extremists and the al-Nusra Front (Jabhat al-Nusra), since the start of a civil war in the country in 2011.
A US-led international coalition has been launching airstrikes against ISIL targets in Syria since September, 2014.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150325/1019971721.html#ixzz3VOSreWFe
putinboss- Posts : 6
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here's the thing that the syrian air defence have lock on there aircraft many times, so turkey knows that they would end up with only half of their fleet of f-16s left,
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Turkish Fighter Jet Shoots Down Syrian Aircraft
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George1 wrote:Turkish Fighter Jet Shoots Down Syrian Aircraft
Likely a drone
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PM Says Turkey Needs No Permission for Anti-Terrorist Operations in Syria
Earlier on Friday, Turkey conducted airstrikes against ISIL on Syrian territory for the first time.
ANKARA (Sputnik) — Turkey will protect its borders in any way it feels necessary and does not require any approval from anyone to coordinate possible military operations in Syria, Prime Minister Ahmet Davutolglu said Friday.
"Ankara makes all its decisions on the protection of its borders and ways to ensure the security of the state on its own. We do not coordinate such military operations [in Syria] and we do not answer to anyone but ourselves. No one can take that legitimate right of a legitimate government away," Davutoglu said commenting on Turkish military airstrikes on Islamic State militants' positions in Syria carried out earlier in the day.
Davutuglu noted that any attack on Turkey would be properly answered.
"Our citizens should not worry and should trust their government," the prime minister added.
According to the government of Turkey's official report, the first Turkish Air Force strikes on Friday targeted three ISIL positions in Syria by using laser-guided missles.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150724/1024997175.html#ixzz3go3QcfM6
Earlier on Friday, Turkey conducted airstrikes against ISIL on Syrian territory for the first time.
ANKARA (Sputnik) — Turkey will protect its borders in any way it feels necessary and does not require any approval from anyone to coordinate possible military operations in Syria, Prime Minister Ahmet Davutolglu said Friday.
"Ankara makes all its decisions on the protection of its borders and ways to ensure the security of the state on its own. We do not coordinate such military operations [in Syria] and we do not answer to anyone but ourselves. No one can take that legitimate right of a legitimate government away," Davutoglu said commenting on Turkish military airstrikes on Islamic State militants' positions in Syria carried out earlier in the day.
Davutuglu noted that any attack on Turkey would be properly answered.
"Our citizens should not worry and should trust their government," the prime minister added.
According to the government of Turkey's official report, the first Turkish Air Force strikes on Friday targeted three ISIL positions in Syria by using laser-guided missles.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150724/1024997175.html#ixzz3go3QcfM6
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Turkey launches unprecedented airstrikes against ISIL
Published on Jul 24, 2015
The fight against Islamic State militants has seen a significant escalation in Turkey. Turkey has launched airstrikes for the first time against IS targets in Syria. There are reports that at least 35 militants were killed in the operation. Meanwhile, Turkish police fanned out across the country, arresting hundreds of suspected terrorists in coordinated ground raids.
Turk AF hit arab terror!
George1- Posts : 18519
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Turkish Prime Minister Rules Out Boots on Syrian Soil
Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu ruled out on Sunday sending ground troops to fight the Islamic State military group in Syria, according to the Hurriyet newspaper.
MOSCOW (Sputnik) — In an interview with Turkish media, Davutoglu commented on the agreement with Washington to provide air cover to what they consider to be moderate Syrian rebels, such as the Free Syrian Army and other forces that have the same goal of weeding out ISIL insurgency in the war-torn country.
He stressed that if Ankara was not going to send in ground forces, and it was not, then moderate rebels should at least be protected from above.
Turkey still wants to see Syrian leader Bashar Assad deposed, Davutoglu added. He also said that Kurdish separatists from the PKK party might have a "place in the new Syria" if they sever contacts with Assad.
On Friday, Turkey officially launched its two-front campaign against PKK in northern Iraq and the Islamic State jihadist group in Syria.
The air raids followed a week of violence in Turkey – which shares southern borders with Syria and Iraq – including a suicide bombing in the Turkish border town of Suruc that killed 32 people and injured over 100.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150727/1025077536.html#ixzz3h4sWBsPt
Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu ruled out on Sunday sending ground troops to fight the Islamic State military group in Syria, according to the Hurriyet newspaper.
MOSCOW (Sputnik) — In an interview with Turkish media, Davutoglu commented on the agreement with Washington to provide air cover to what they consider to be moderate Syrian rebels, such as the Free Syrian Army and other forces that have the same goal of weeding out ISIL insurgency in the war-torn country.
He stressed that if Ankara was not going to send in ground forces, and it was not, then moderate rebels should at least be protected from above.
Turkey still wants to see Syrian leader Bashar Assad deposed, Davutoglu added. He also said that Kurdish separatists from the PKK party might have a "place in the new Syria" if they sever contacts with Assad.
On Friday, Turkey officially launched its two-front campaign against PKK in northern Iraq and the Islamic State jihadist group in Syria.
The air raids followed a week of violence in Turkey – which shares southern borders with Syria and Iraq – including a suicide bombing in the Turkish border town of Suruc that killed 32 people and injured over 100.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20150727/1025077536.html#ixzz3h4sWBsPt
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The Ottoman- Posts : 287
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Turkish anti-ISIS-corps
Translation of the tekst ont the emblem: ''Daesh Hunters Club - 'Don't Run, You shall only die tired''
