Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov

George1 wrote:I think this ships should had been commissioned 2 years now..

No reason to rush, and they're not rushing either. They're going slow, so that any problems with the first 1-2 ships can be ironed out, and the next-gen weapons systems can be fully developed, in time for the production of the rest of the ships in the series.

New image ,. january 2014



Looks good

I can imagine that the Onyx and the BrahMos are the one and the same thing, they just work in other wave bands (frequencies). The Indians didn't contribute a bloody thing to this missile.
Same story goes for the Aermacchi M-346.

GJ Flanker wrote:I can imagine that the Onyx and the BrahMos are the one and the same thing, they just work in other wave bands (frequencies). The Indians didn't contribute a bloody thing to this missile.
Same story goes for the Aermacchi M-346.

That is not accurate.

The Italians did a lot of model testing and aerodynamic work when the project was unified.


BrahMos is the Indians localizing the Onyx, but they also did a lot of their own work on making it an anti-land weapon, something Russia as of yet does not use it for.

No reason to rush, and they're not rushing either. They're going slow, so that any problems with the first 1-2 ships can be ironed out, and the next-gen weapons systems can be fully developed, in time for the production of the rest of the ships in the series.

Actually because these vessels will be multirole and therefore will be produced in rather larger numbers than previous vessels it is critical to get all the bugs ironed out before mass production starts.

Previously with Destroyers if there was a problem with one... Say the Soveremmenys engines had a fault then that wasn't the end of the world because you only built 10-16 Sovs and the rest were Udaloy class ASW Destroyers. Now instead of building 15 AShM destroyers and 15 ASW destroyers they will likely make 30-40 destroyers that can do both jobs so it is important to get it right... and of course being multirole they will have rather more features to test and perfect as well.

I can imagine that the Onyx and the BrahMos are the one and the same thing, they just work in other wave bands (frequencies). The Indians didn't contribute a bloody thing to this missile.

Certainly not true... the Onyx is an anti ship missile only... just like the Yakhont, which is the short range export version. The Brahmos added land attack capability and all new electronics which no doubt reduced weight, increased reliability, improved performance and capabilities.

The Brahmos is limited in range to 300km however while the Onyx is not limited in range.

BrahMos is the Indians localizing the Onyx, but they also did a lot of their own work on making it an anti-land weapon, something Russia as of yet does not use it for.

BrahMos is the Indians localizing the Yakhont, but they also did a lot of their own work on making it an anti-land weapon, something Russia as of yet does not use it for.

30-40 destroyers?

Garry, you puffin that pipe tonight

If we get 30-40 Frigates + Destroyers + Cruisers I will be deliriously happy.

zg18 wrote:New image ,. january 2014



Looks good

Thanks for posting - my vote.

The ship seems almost ready with a lot of electronics installed. Still missing the main gun.

TheArmenian wrote:

zg18 wrote:New image ,. january 2014



Looks good

Thanks for posting - my vote.

The ship seems almost ready with a lot of electronics installed. Still missing the main gun.

True. It seems they still have some works on the main mast. I wonder when it will get its main gun.

All that i see Year after Year is Gorshkov pictures being better then the previous one.

When will they bloody get this ship on trials this is all that matters ....we dont need pier side beauty but a fighting ship and ASAP.

Gorshkov has maybe the finest design among world's frigates and destroyers. Not such a high radar mast as Type 45 or Hoizon, nice proportional lines. But also there is that Zumwalt beast around.

22350 is the most beautiful frigate in Russian naval history, although it has the ugliest PESA in human history...

xeno wrote:22350 is the most beautiful frigate in Russian naval history, although it has the ugliest PESA in human history...

What?!?!

Have you seen other designs with 360 coverage?!?

They have absolutely hideous masts that bulge out on top and look like they will capsize the ships.

IMO 22350 is one of the very best looking modern warship designs.

Austin wrote:All that i see Year after Year is Gorshkov pictures being better then the previous one.

When will they bloody get this ship on trials this is all that matters ....we dont need pier side beauty but a fighting ship and ASAP.

When the weapons systems work.

Ship would have been ready a year ago if the 130mm gun and Redut-Poliment had been ready.

TR1 wrote:

xeno wrote:22350 is the most beautiful frigate in Russian naval history, although it has the ugliest PESA in human history...

What?!?!

Have you seen other designs with 360 coverage?!?

They have absolutely hideous masts that bulge out on top and look like they will capsize the ships.

IMO 22350 is one of the very best looking modern warship designs.

I mean those antennas of PESA radars on the foremast. The foremast (with four PESA antenna) itself is fine.

xeno wrote:

TR1 wrote:

xeno wrote:22350 is the most beautiful frigate in Russian naval history, although it has the ugliest PESA in human history...

What?!?!

Have you seen other designs with 360 coverage?!?

They have absolutely hideous masts that bulge out on top and look like they will capsize the ships.

IMO 22350 is one of the very best looking modern warship designs.

I mean those antennas of PESA radars on the foremast. The foremast (with four PESA antenna) itself is fine.

Ah you mean the way the antenna kinda sticks out, instead of being completely flush like some other designs?

Yeah I guess I see what you are saying, but I sort of like the rough "industrial" look of the plates. Honestly I am just relieved the mast does not look like a cancerous growth on top of the ship.

Sad there was no footage of the 130mm gun in the Burevestnik video.

Are we sure its not AESA radar mounted on 22350?

99%
If you are looking for an AESA on Russian warships, wait for 20385(100%, and probably double band).

Viktor wrote:Are we sure its not AESA radar mounted on 22350?

Like Xeno said, 99%.

Basically navalized Vityaz, IIRC.

Not a problem, will be an excellent system regardless.

@ Xeno: You sure about 20385? What will be AESA, the Furke replacement? It isn't that Phazatron 4-faced installation we saw is it?

It is AESA.
Phazatron is developing it based on that 4-faced AESA sample we have seen.
And better news is that Phazatron is developing a series products to meet needs of different class warships not only for 20385(2500t)
If they succeed then Russian navy will make great progress...

Funny, as AESA was orriginal aim fof the Gorshkov. Anyway, what is the progress on it? Such projects must be completed for Russia to stay competitive.

Take a look at those empty slots right by the pink marked UKSK launchers and

than take a look at those same empty slots right inbetween green marked Centauro-NM



and notice those same slot at the newest modular project 22160 which will be build as a patrol boat but can at moment notice become warship armed with Club/Shtil-1 VLS     



I think it is without doubt now that project 22350 has much greater potential for VLS/strike/defense than thought

I don't think so.

It is not surface space that matters, as much as under deck space. Given Russian tendency to pack hulls with weapons, they would have slotted in more UKSK if they could. The Kalibr is REALLY long, and takes up massive underdeck space. I don't think it could fit. Plus:
https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img190/7254/xf5f9addc.jpg
No cutouts.

As for 22160 don't think they will find any space for Kalibr, the Byan-M for example needs its entire raised superstructure to hold the missiles.
For Shtil, you need accompanying radar systems, you can't just slap it on. If you do, the missiles will have problems that make Furke-Redut look like a dream.

Modularity is a big farce in many cases, and I think this is one of them. If they can easily modify the build for export customers, good, but for Runavy the whole point of this ship is not another heavily armed pocket destroyer/frigate, but a lighter armed, long endurance patrol ship.

TR1 wrote:I don't think so.

It is not surface space that matters, as much as under deck space. Given Russian tendency to pack hulls with weapons, they would have slotted in more UKSK if they could. The Kalibr is REALLY long, and takes up massive underdeck space. I don't think it could fit. Plus:
https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img190/7254/xf5f9addc.jpg
No cutouts.

I know and going towards the sides of ship its under deck space becomes smaller but still there is something not of Kalibr/Club size that you could fit in there. Perhaps it could be

9M96 of 3M338 or Morfei missiles it really does not matter as long as you can put that space to good use.

Perhaps a lighter vertical launch system for Morfei and perhaps Kh-35/Kh-31?

It would need to be fairly compact... this is a long endurance patrol boat which means lots of fuel storage and armament supplies... I suspect the drop in calibre was to allow rather more ammo to be carried.

there is no reason why an export model could not have extra structures for UKSK launch bins and large model SAMs of course or a shorter range better armed patrol boat.

http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140226/187907538/Russia-Launches-Construction-of-New-Patrol-Ship-Class.html

The new class is intended for economic zone patrol, search-and-rescue operations, anti-piracy and anti-smuggling activities, environmental monitoring, as well as coastal defense and escort service, according to the shipyard’s statement.

I think the most important feature is the helicopter... old Soviet patrol vessels never had any helicopter capacity, while this ship can carry a heavy helicopter like the Helix family. They could even use this vessel as a radar picket vessel using a Ka-31...