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I meant 32 missiles, not seperate units 
. Unless they quadpack the 9m100, I suspect 9m96 numbers will be around 32.
. Unless they quadpack the 9m100, I suspect 9m96 numbers will be around 32. +87
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Project 22350: Admiral Sergei Gorshkov
TR1- Posts : 5435
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TR1 wrote:I meant 32 missiles, not seperate units
I think per launcher for the cruiser/destroyer/frigate goes.
1x 48N6
4x 9M96
16x 9M100
For smaller boats that may also have Redut system we will see 1x9M96 per launcher.
Mindstorm- Posts : 1133
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TR1 wrote:I meant 32 missiles, not seperate units
If the configuration is that showed at IDEX 2011 it can be any number except ....32
Or 28 or 112 .
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Mindstorm wrote:TR1 wrote:I meant 32 missiles, not seperate units
If the configuration is that showed at IDEX 2011 it can be any number except ....32
Or 28 or 112 .
Yup, but watch one thing. Dimensions of one VLS Redut launcher is basically the
same as dimensions of one VLS UKSK where 0.54m in diameter Club-S or 0.6m in
diameter Brahmos is placed. As one 9M96 is more than half diameter ( 0.25m) in
comparison with antiship missiles it takes 4 times less surface meaning you can
place 4x 9M96 in one VLS Redut or have 112 x 9M96 missiles in all.
Older S-300 missiles 5V55 and newer 48N6 all have 0.5m in diameter meaning they
roughly take the same area as Brahmos and thats why same S-300 battery can carry
4 time payload with 9M96 missiles or 196 x 9M96 missiles for 12 TEL battery.
Last edited by Viktor on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Sorry Mindstorm, you are right. 28 it is.
No way in hell it is 128 unfortunately. Check out Balancers forum, the best place for Russian navy info. Nothing about that many missiles.
No way in hell it is 128 unfortunately. Check out Balancers forum, the best place for Russian navy info. Nothing about that many missiles.
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What Im interested is in picture posted by mindstorm you have more probable VLS
taking space to the UKSK right and left and there is some area in front of
chimney at the stern also accountable for some missiles
taking space to the UKSK right and left and there is some area in front of
chimney at the stern also accountable for some missiles
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TR1 wrote:
No way in hell it is 128
Yes way.
Last edited by Viktor on Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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THe Gorshkov is not meant to have 48N6. 9M96 is the largest missile intended to be carried.Viktor wrote:TR1 wrote:I meant 32 missiles, not seperate units
I think per launcher for the cruiser/destroyer/frigate goes.
1x 48N6
4x 9M96
16x 9M100
For smaller boats that may also have Redut system we will see 1x9M96 per launcher.
Just compare the 20380s with the Redut, it is known to have 12 missiles in the VLS, the Gorshkov's VLS does not appear to be more than 2.5 times larger, in surface area.
The real question is, which variants of 9M96 will the 20380 and 22350 carry. Hopefully the 120km version.
I have never heard of 9M96 quadpacking, only for the hopefullyt-stil-alive 9m100.
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TR1 wrote:THe Gorshkov is not meant to have 48N6. 9M96 is the largest missile intended to be carried.
48N6 is classified as medium missile same as 9M96
TR1 wrote:Just compare the 20380s with the Redut, it is known to have 12 missiles in the VLS, the Gorshkov's VLS does not appear to be more than 2.5 times larger, in surface area.
TR1 wrote:I have never heard of 9M96 quadpacking, only for the hopefullyt-stil-alive 9m100.
You have never heard of 9M96 quadpacking ?
or this
I bet Redut in 20380 and 22350 is one and the same. Perhaps some smaller Redut
VLS can be applied to 500t boats caring only one 9M96 missile per launcher or
4x9M100
TR1 wrote:The real question is, which variants of 9M96 will the 20380 and 22350 carry. Hopefully the 120km version.
Difference is in length not in diameter and diameter is what counts.
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http://www.ausairpower.net/48N6E+9M96E1+E2-Rounds-1S.jpg
Compare the big missile to the 9m96. There has been zero indication at all that the big missile is carried on 20380 or 22250.
The 20380 has 12 missiles, this isnt a mystery, all Russian sources point to this. 22350 has identical cells, just more of them.
Seems pretty clear to me.
The quadpacking would be possible if the cells were designed for 46N6 from the start. But, they were not.
Compare the big missile to the 9m96. There has been zero indication at all that the big missile is carried on 20380 or 22250.
The 20380 has 12 missiles, this isnt a mystery, all Russian sources point to this. 22350 has identical cells, just more of them.
Seems pretty clear to me.
The quadpacking would be possible if the cells were designed for 46N6 from the start. But, they were not.
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TR1 wrote:http://www.ausairpower.net/48N6E+9M96E1+E2-Rounds-1S.jpg
Compare the big missile to the 9m96. There has been zero indication at all that the big missile is carried on 20380 or 22250.
The 20380 has 12 missiles, this isnt a mystery, all Russian sources point to this. 22350 has identical cells, just more of them.
Seems pretty clear to me.
The quadpacking would be possible if the cells were designed for 46N6 from the start. But, they were not.
Perhaps is true but its not logical cozz in that case you would have lots of empty space in between the missile and the launcher and 48N6 is no lengthier missile than Onix/Brahmos meaning if UKSK can be placed there so can smaller in length 48N6 and so can 48N6.
About news titles and 12 missiles for 20380, 9M96 is not ready jet and there is no point of mentioned it in articles for that reason in comparison with all other of the S-300/400 series.
If UKSK is meant to carry all option like 3M-54/3M-14/91R/Brahmos/Onix/Kh-101/102 and can be placed in cruisers, future destroyers, frigates, corvetes and even small 21631 than and unification is the word than I have no doubt Redut is meant for more than just 9M96 and in that case 4x9M96 per launcher is reality and dont care what ria news or others write.
Besides all news and producer itself of S-400 missile system althrow in production already says about 48N6 missile meaning one battery consist of TELx4
missiles not even mentioning 9M96 witch is part of it.
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http://balancer.ru/forum/punbb/attachment.php?item=263664&download=2
New photo of Gorshkov!
Handsome ship so far, the mast isn't hideous like those European AESA boats.
New photo of Gorshkov!
Handsome ship so far, the mast isn't hideous like those European AESA boats.
GarryB- Posts : 40560
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Nice big Phased Array radar antennas make it look modern and powerful...
George1- Posts : 18526
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Frigate Admiral Gorshkov Starts Trials in November
Project 22350 frigate Admiral Gorshkov, the first Russian naval ship made of carbon composite will start sea trials in the Barents Sea no later than in Nov 2012, reports Izvestiya referring to a source in Russian Navy Main HQ.
The ship will join Northern Fleet (NF) 14-th Antisubmarine Ship Brigade. Admiral Gorshkov is built under stealth technology; deck erection is made of composite materials absorbing or partially conducting radio waves which ensures "invisibility" to enemy radars.
"Since 1987, it is the first large-size ship fully designed and built by Russian manufacturers including Severnaya Verf shipyard in St. Petersburg. Project 22350 stealth frigates will shift large ASW ships known in NATO as Udaloy class", said the Russian Navy's staff officer.
Recall that the Navy command earlier declared frigate Admiral Gorshkov would be commissioned in 2012. The ship's delivery to Russian Navy was once postponed in 2011.
Frigate Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Gorshkov was laid down at Severnaya Verf shipyard in 2006 and put afloat on Nov 29, 2010 in St. Petersburg.
Project 22350 frigates are designed for warfare in littoral and sea zones. Displacement is about 4,500 tons; length overall is 130 meters; beam overall is 16 meters; cruising range is over 4,000 miles; navigability is unlimited. Frigate of this class accommodates one ship-borne helicopter.
The ship was named after outstanding military leader and naval art ideologist Admiral Sergei G. Gorshkov who led foundation of Soviet ocean-going nuclear missile fleet. It was he who headed Soviet Navy when over 1,000 warships became the key foreign policy tool.
http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16105
Project 22350 frigate Admiral Gorshkov, the first Russian naval ship made of carbon composite will start sea trials in the Barents Sea no later than in Nov 2012, reports Izvestiya referring to a source in Russian Navy Main HQ.
The ship will join Northern Fleet (NF) 14-th Antisubmarine Ship Brigade. Admiral Gorshkov is built under stealth technology; deck erection is made of composite materials absorbing or partially conducting radio waves which ensures "invisibility" to enemy radars.
"Since 1987, it is the first large-size ship fully designed and built by Russian manufacturers including Severnaya Verf shipyard in St. Petersburg. Project 22350 stealth frigates will shift large ASW ships known in NATO as Udaloy class", said the Russian Navy's staff officer.
Recall that the Navy command earlier declared frigate Admiral Gorshkov would be commissioned in 2012. The ship's delivery to Russian Navy was once postponed in 2011.
Frigate Admiral Flota Sovetskogo Soyuza Gorshkov was laid down at Severnaya Verf shipyard in 2006 and put afloat on Nov 29, 2010 in St. Petersburg.
Project 22350 frigates are designed for warfare in littoral and sea zones. Displacement is about 4,500 tons; length overall is 130 meters; beam overall is 16 meters; cruising range is over 4,000 miles; navigability is unlimited. Frigate of this class accommodates one ship-borne helicopter.
The ship was named after outstanding military leader and naval art ideologist Admiral Sergei G. Gorshkov who led foundation of Soviet ocean-going nuclear missile fleet. It was he who headed Soviet Navy when over 1,000 warships became the key foreign policy tool.
http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16105
Austin- Posts : 7617
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That must be Carbon Fibre Re-enforced Plastic for the Hull and Carbon Composite for superstructure.
Pretty common material these days which are used on ships.
But I think the hull will be all Steel and superstructure will use extensive composite.
CFRP is mostly used for ASW mine hunters.
Pretty common material these days which are used on ships.
But I think the hull will be all Steel and superstructure will use extensive composite.
CFRP is mostly used for ASW mine hunters.
TR1- Posts : 5435
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AFAIK the 22350 uses a more conventional superstructure, unlike 20380 which has the composite superstructure.
GarryB- Posts : 40560
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I am more surprised it will start testing next month!
A little disappointed they didn't mention nano technology too....
A little disappointed they didn't mention nano technology too....
Austin- Posts : 7617
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Composite superstructure is something they should be using if they are not , if 20380 can use it see no reason why the more advanced 20350 cant.
To me the suerstructure looks composites but lets see.
So they mentioned 36 cruise missile , 16 Oniks and 16 Calbir
To me the suerstructure looks composites but lets see.
So they mentioned 36 cruise missile , 16 Oniks and 16 Calbir
GarryB- Posts : 40560
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So they mentioned 36 cruise missile , 16 Oniks and 16 Calbir
32?
They will not be restricted, the launcher will be the UKSK launcher which can take Oniks or Calibre or Klub in any combination.
The anti sub torpedo on a rocket booster Klub, supersonic and subsonic anti ship Klub, subsonic land attack Klub/Calibre, Oniks/Yakhont/Brahmos.
It could carry 4 anti sub missiles (40km range), 6 land attack Calibre missiles(2,500km range), 10 supersonic anti ship Klub/Calibre, and 12 Oniks/Yakhont/Brahmos supersonic anti ship missiles.
In fact the combination can be decided when the tubes are being loaded.
32 missiles means 4 UKSK launch bins.
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"Project 22350 stealth frigates will shift large ASW ships known in NATO as Udaloy class"
And i thought it was critical to replace sovremenny destroyers, and that Udaloy ones are performing well, despite the age?
Also, isnt 22350 supposed to replace both types, but it would make more sense starting shifting out sovremenny´s.
And i thought it was critical to replace sovremenny destroyers, and that Udaloy ones are performing well, despite the age?
Also, isnt 22350 supposed to replace both types, but it would make more sense starting shifting out sovremenny´s.
George1- Posts : 18526
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runaway wrote:"Project 22350 stealth frigates will shift large ASW ships known in NATO as Udaloy class"
And i thought it was critical to replace sovremenny destroyers, and that Udaloy ones are performing well, despite the age?
Also, isnt 22350 supposed to replace both types, but it would make more sense starting shifting out sovremenny´s.
Project 22350 will replace both udaloy and sovremenny class destroyers. Udaloy has 8 (2 x 4) SS-N-14 Silex anti-submarine missiles and sovremenny 8 (2× 4 Moskit SSM P-270) anti-ship missiles.
Their SAMs are 64 SR (8 x 8 SA-N-9 Gauntlet) for Udaly and 48 MR (2× 24 Shtil/SA-N-12 Grizzly) for sovremney.
Both of them have 8 ASW missiles, 8 AShM missiles and 48 medium range and 64 short range SAMs. Count the missiles that 22350 carries
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Austin wrote:Composite superstructure is something they should be using if they are not , if 20380 can use it see no reason why the more advanced 20350 cant.
To me the suerstructure looks composites but lets see.
So they mentioned 36 cruise missile , 16 Oniks and 16 Calbir
The 20380 has a whole separate structure shipped from a different builder; 22350 has nothing like that.
Most large warships don't use all composite structures, its still not the most proven of technologies.
Good thing they are not using it on 22350, RuNavy needs ships not potentially troublesome ships.
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http://www.flotprom.ru/news/?ELEMENT_ID=124569
Gorshkov will not be going out for trials in November.
Izvestia and its sources are wrong, yet again.
Gorshkov will not be going out for trials in November.
Izvestia and its sources are wrong, yet again.
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And i thought it was critical to replace sovremenny destroyers, and that Udaloy ones are performing well, despite the age?
Also, isnt 22350 supposed to replace both types, but it would make more sense starting shifting out sovremenny´s.
The Sovremmenys have had problems with their machinery, but a few were sold to China.
The Udaloys are very good vessels and I suspect there will be a few ships that urgently need to be retired and a few that can stay on for a few years yet, but overall it is the purpose of the 22350 to replace all the old vessels.
Both of them have 8 ASW missiles, 8 AShM missiles and 48 medium range and 64 short range SAMs. Count the missiles that 22350 carries
I am sure Runaway is aware that these new vessels will replace all the old destroyers, I think he is just questioning why the Udaloy class was mentioned for replacement when the Sovremmeny class ships are reportedly not the best in terms of propulsion.
Izvestia and its sources are wrong, yet again.
Talk about making news.... how disappointing.
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Disinformation: Frigate Admiral Gorshkov Won't Start Trials in November
Project 22350 frigate Admiral Gorshkov will not take the Barents Sea for trials late in November. The source in Russian Navy Main HQ that Izvestiya newspaper recently referred to had provided untrustworthy information. Moreover, exterior deck erection does not consist of composite materials, it is only covered with radar absorbent coating, an official of United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) told Central Navy Portal.
"Reporters of Izvestiya and their insider in the Navy are running before the hounds", the USC executive told Central Navy Portal.
"Indeed, the frigate is being actively fitted-out, but she won't be ready for sea trials by the end of November, especially in the Barents Sea. At first, the ship must be tested in the Gulf of Finland, at construction site. Sure, dockside trials may start in November, but the ship will take sea for the first time not earlier than in 2013", added the interviewee.
Vladimir I. Spiridopulo, Director General of Severnoye Design Bureau which is developer of Project 22350 frigates, did say that the lead ship would begin trials this autumn meaning the dockside ones.
The interviewee added that the newspaper most likely had confused the frigate with Stereguschiy-class corvettes being built at Severnaya Verf shipyard. Deck erection of those frigates is really made of laminated composite materials but not just carbon plastic. The frigate's steel tophamper is specially designed to reduce radar signature and coated with radar absorbent materials. There are some other 'howlers' in that article published by Izvestiya; for one, the author mentioned Polimer-Redut system instead of Poliment.
"In all, informativity and credibility of that newspaper article leave much to be desired", concluded the interviewee of Central Navy Portal.
http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16125
Project 22350 frigate Admiral Gorshkov will not take the Barents Sea for trials late in November. The source in Russian Navy Main HQ that Izvestiya newspaper recently referred to had provided untrustworthy information. Moreover, exterior deck erection does not consist of composite materials, it is only covered with radar absorbent coating, an official of United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) told Central Navy Portal.
"Reporters of Izvestiya and their insider in the Navy are running before the hounds", the USC executive told Central Navy Portal.
"Indeed, the frigate is being actively fitted-out, but she won't be ready for sea trials by the end of November, especially in the Barents Sea. At first, the ship must be tested in the Gulf of Finland, at construction site. Sure, dockside trials may start in November, but the ship will take sea for the first time not earlier than in 2013", added the interviewee.
Vladimir I. Spiridopulo, Director General of Severnoye Design Bureau which is developer of Project 22350 frigates, did say that the lead ship would begin trials this autumn meaning the dockside ones.
The interviewee added that the newspaper most likely had confused the frigate with Stereguschiy-class corvettes being built at Severnaya Verf shipyard. Deck erection of those frigates is really made of laminated composite materials but not just carbon plastic. The frigate's steel tophamper is specially designed to reduce radar signature and coated with radar absorbent materials. There are some other 'howlers' in that article published by Izvestiya; for one, the author mentioned Polimer-Redut system instead of Poliment.
"In all, informativity and credibility of that newspaper article leave much to be desired", concluded the interviewee of Central Navy Portal.
http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16125