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Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

hoom

hoom: Posts : 2352
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Post n°51

Sovremennyy-class destroyers.

hoom Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:06 am

Yes I said Chinese...
And they are in progress of doing upgrades
Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers - Page 3 Ddg_136_vls

Not the sketch I was thinking of (& I think it was actually an Udaloy not Sov) but found this
Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers - Page 3 Vertical-launch%20(VL)%20version%20of%20the%20Shtil-1%20naval%20SAM%20system%209M317ME_05

Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers - Page 3 Vertical-launch%20(VL)%20version%20of%20the%20Shtil-1%20naval%20SAM%20system%209M317ME_05

George1

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Post n°52

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

George1 Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:50 pm

Russian Navy plans to modernize five big antisubmarine ships

According to the Navy spokesman, the ships will undergo an "enormous overhaul"

MOSCOW, January 19. /TASS/. Five big antisubmarine ships Project 1155 (Udaloy-class) will be refurbished and modernized until the year 2022 as radio-electronic weapons systems and life support systems are to be overhauled, Russian Navy’s spokesman Igor Dygalo told reporters.

"Until the year 2022, five big antisubmarine warfare destroyers Project 1155 of the Northern and Pacific Fleets will be refurbished and modernized at shipyards in the northern and Far Eastern regions," Dygalo said, noting the ships "will undergo an enormous overhaul of their life support systems and radio-electronic weapons systems."

More:
http://tass.com/defense/925917

PapaDragon

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Post n°53

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

PapaDragon Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:54 am

Okay, if I am reading this right it looks like Marshall Shaposhnikov will be getting 2 UKSK launchers Suspect

(УВПУ 3С-14 is UKSK, right?) confused

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2792784.html

Guest

Guest: Guest

Post n°54

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

Guest Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:12 am

PapaDragon wrote:Okay, if I am reading this right it looks like Marshall Shaposhnikov will be getting 2 UKSK launchers
(УВПУ 3С-14 is UKSK, right?)

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2792784.html

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1544307.html

Mhm Smile

Big_Gazza

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Post n°55

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

Big_Gazza Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:09 am

PapaDragon wrote:Okay, if I am reading this right it looks like Marshall Shaposhnikov will be getting 2 UKSK launchers
(УВПУ 3С-14 is UKSK, right?)

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2792784.html

I wonder if the UKSK will be the usual vertical bins or whether this will be an inclined version for retrofit to older vessels? Kinda like the racks fitted to the Pr 1234.7 missile boat Nakat?

Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers - Page 3 P-800%20Test%20Ship%20Nakat

Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers - Page 3 P-800%20Test%20Ship%20Nakat

Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers - Page 3 Full-1356621695-1468844344

Nakat was clearly a trial arrangement, and apparently needed tarpaulins to provide supplementary environmental protection for the exposed missile tubes, but it demonstrated the feasibility of firing Oniks from inclined tubes. I assume it requires a different missile build to fire from inclined tubes, unlike VLS where the missile pops up & rotates 90 degrees prior to firing main booster.

PapaDragon

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Post n°56

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

PapaDragon Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:23 am

.
@BigGazza

I don't think they will be deviating from standard vertical setup, too much hassle and if they had planned it at any point it would have been done long ago

Most likely they told themselves "We are ripping everything out of this monster that is not fuzed with the bulkhead so why not make some actual improvements with easily available gear while we are at it?"

Also, I don't think that weapons that this ship uses will be in production for much longer if they still are at all

Rowdyhorse4

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Post n°57

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

Rowdyhorse4 Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:27 pm

http://zakupki.rosneft.ru/node/220427

the Procurement list for the Udaloy upgrades

More source about the Udaloys getting UKSK

Last edited by Rowdyhorse4 on Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

George1

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Post n°58

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

George1 Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:43 pm

Τhe strange is that the article says that also 3P-60U (Uran launcher) will be on the ship. So both Kalibr and Uran?

Rowdyhorse4

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Post n°59

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

Rowdyhorse4 Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:48 pm

George1 wrote:Τhe strange is that the article says that also 3P-60U (Uran launcher) will be on the ship. So both Kalibr and Uran?

Ummm

Let me inquire on this first actually and i'll get back to you

BUT IF they are getting Uran launchers....

Probably similar setup to US DDGs where Harpoons missiles containers were placed in the ass of the ship while Anti-Ship Tomahawk missiles are in the MK41 VLS

You can contact me on my discord if you want to try find out more i guess?

UPDATE:

Oh you meant another article because i see no mention of Uran launchers...
there shouldn't be i think...

George1

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Post n°60

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

George1 Sat Aug 19, 2017 8:55 pm

Rowdyhorse4 wrote:

George1 wrote:Τhe strange is that the article says that also 3P-60U (Uran launcher) will be on the ship. So both Kalibr and Uran?

Ummm

Let me inquire on this first actually and i'll get back to you

BUT IF they are getting Uran launchers....

Probably similar setup to US DDGs where Harpoons missiles containers were placed in the ass of the ship while Anti-Ship Tomahawk missiles are in the MK41 VLS

You can contact me on my discord if you want to try find out more i guess?

UPDATE:

Oh you meant another article because i see no mention of Uran launchers...
there shouldn't be i think...

this article i meant

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2792784.html

Rowdyhorse4

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Post n°61

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

Rowdyhorse4 Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:01 pm

George1 wrote:

Rowdyhorse4 wrote:

George1 wrote:Τhe strange is that the article says that also 3P-60U (Uran launcher) will be on the ship. So both Kalibr and Uran?

Ummm

Let me inquire on this first actually and i'll get back to you

BUT IF they are getting Uran launchers....

Probably similar setup to US DDGs where Harpoons missiles containers were placed in the ass of the ship while Anti-Ship Tomahawk missiles are in the MK41 VLS

You can contact me on my discord if you want to try find out more i guess?

UPDATE:

Oh you meant another article because i see no mention of Uran launchers...
there shouldn't be i think...

this article i meant

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2792784.html

Actually my bad... I suck at reading russian anyways... .

yes the Udaloy is getting URAN launchers

Its in the Procurement list i posted...

most likely it will be on deck near the UKSK launchers as well probably.... UKSK is somewhere in the bow of the ship and the old SS-N-14 launchers place become Urans launchers.......

Luq man

Luq man: Posts : 67
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Post n°62

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

Luq man Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:16 am

From twitter: RussianDefence.com‏ @Russian_Defence
Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers - Page 3 Dhl-ti10

Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers - Page 3 Dhl-xu10

Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers - Page 3 Dhl-aj10

PapaDragon

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Post n°63

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

PapaDragon Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:41 am

Last photo is of Grigorevich frigate

They will probably remove one gun and install those 2 VLS systems there

Urans will go in the back, plenty of room

Silex/Sunburn horizontal launchers stay where they are, there will be no horizontal UKSK

UKSK will make these ships Zircon certified which will significantly increase their threat rating, something very few people expected

KiloGolf

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Post n°64

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

KiloGolf Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:22 am

Luq man wrote:From twitter: RussianDefence.com‏ @Russian_Defence

What are we looking at? Uran horizontal launchers in the back and front and UKSK VLS?

Luq man

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Post n°65

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

Luq man Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:40 am

KiloGolf wrote:What are we looking at? Uran horizontal launchers in the back and front and UKSK VLS?

Apparently yes

Edit: The fact this ship will get Urans gives reason all those UKSK cells will be filled with the anti submarine missile/torpedos of the Kalibr family.

Last edited by Luq man on Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:18 am; edited 1 time in total

PapaDragon

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Post n°66

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

PapaDragon Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:12 am

According to some rumors Uran launchers will be installed in the place of Silex containers which will be removed

If true it means a lot of space in the front for Urans, they could squeeze quite a few of them

George1

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Post n°67

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

George1 Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:21 am

do we know if that kind of upgrade will be implemented and in the rest Udaloys?

PapaDragon

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Post n°68

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

PapaDragon Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:49 am

George1 wrote:do we know if that kind of upgrade will be implemented and in the rest Udaloys?

Most likely, if they are going all in on first one then rest of them should not be a problem

Shaposhnikov is one of the oldest of this class in service

One other (Spiridonov) is decommissioned but they said there is possibility of it getting upgrade and returning to service, will it happen is anyone's guess

Big_Gazza

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Post n°69

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

Big_Gazza Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:00 am

PapaDragon wrote:
According to some rumors Uran launchers will be installed in the place of Silex containers which will be removed

If true it means a lot of space in the front for Urans, they could squeeze quite a few of them

Yep, I don't see any point in keeping the Silex launchers. 91RE1/91RET2 would be a far more potent ASW weapon than Silex was, and the Urans will be a huge step up from the Silex secondary anti-surface role.

hoom

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Post n°70

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

hoom Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:16 am

This was a Klub promo image, I believe whats shown are variants of how Klub can be mounted rather than a proposed upgrade.

Inclined Urans on the sides & VLS UKSK is interesting, anything on the AA?
At least upgrade the Tor hopefully but I'd like to see Shtil-1 or Redut.
Could Pantsir-M fit somewhere?

PapaDragon

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Post n°71

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

PapaDragon Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:38 pm

hoom wrote:This was a Klub promo image, I believe whats shown are variants of how Klub can be mounted rather than a proposed upgrade.

Inclined Urans on the sides & VLS UKSK is interesting, anything on the AA?
At least upgrade the Tor hopefully but I'd like to see Shtil-1 or Redut.
Could Pantsir-M fit somewhere?

I don't think they can fit Pantsirs on locations of current CIWS (they could theoretically clear some space on helicopter hangar but it's unlikely). What they can easily do is replace current CIWS with Tandem AK like ones on Buyan-M. Having 4 of these would mean lot's of extra kick without any hassle.

With 16 UKSK cells I would say that they will most likely go with 8 anti-sub and 8 anti-ship missiles. Urans are decent but it makes sense to have some "silver bullets" around just in case. And those 8 torpedo tubes aren't going anywhere so anti-sub functionality will be fully retained.

Speaking of Urans my rough guess is that they can easily fit 3 of them in place of one Silex container. That would mean 24 Uran missiles in front alone. If they opt to add 2 more in the back it would increase missile count to 32. At least. If they get creative then who knows, maybe even more, Urans are not too heavy for ship of this size.

As for AA missiles something definitely needs to be added. Maybe they just get fresh missiles but since they are already cutting hul to fit UKSK then some extra cuts to add Shtil or Redut in place of old AA systems is not a big stretch.

Looks like these ships will be converted to true multirole vessels instead of narrowly specialized anti-sub platforms. Not bad.

hoom

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Post n°72

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

hoom Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:50 pm

So I'm thinking if they replace the Tor/Kinzhal with Shtil-1 (by eyeball looks like a couple of 12* cell modules would fit?) they can take off the big MR-360 fire-control directors fore & aft, replaced by 4* much smaller MR-90s.
Replace the RBUs (assuming that structure includes the ammo & reloader under them) forward of the hangar with a Pantsir-M (would have a bunch of arc blocked by the MR-360 if not removed).
Or replace the RBUs with a couple more Shtil-1 modules?

Hmm, looking again there is actually quite a lot of room forward of the RBUs (including a couple of Kinzhal carousels?), enough for 2*6 cell inclined UKSK per above pic -> maybe could do both Shtil-1 modules and Pantsir-M?
Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers - Page 3 AdmiralTributs1992

Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers - Page 3 AdmiralTributs1992

GarryB

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Post n°73

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

GarryB Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:35 pm

The Udaloys are fundamentally ASW vessels with a secondary AShW capability with its Silex missiles being anti sub torpedoes with a secondary anti ship capability.

this upgrade adding two UKSK launchers and Uran missiles is interesting as I would expect with the ability to carry 16 missiles in the UKSK launcher at least half will be the anti sub Klub missiles... probably three quarters... ie 12 of 16 missiles would be mach 2.5 ballistic rockets to deliver anti sub torpedoes up to 50km from the ship.

The Urans would be good enough for back up anti ship self defence, which leaves 4 tubes for something else like a land attack missile or more powerful anti ship weapon.

I suspect it will remain fundamentally anti sub, but when needed for land attack AKA Syria, then the Uran would protect the ship and 12 tubes of the UKSK could carry land attack missiles with 4 tubes left for anti sub work.

It will be interesting to see what they actually do regarding angled UKSK tubes because this will have implications regarding the Slava class vessels.

And BTW the Onyx/Brahmos/Zircon, and the Club/Klub family of missiles and indeed Calibr are all able to be fired from standard 533mm torpedo tubes so angle launch is not really an issue.

PapaDragon

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Post n°74

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

PapaDragon Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:06 pm

GarryB wrote:The Udaloys are fundamentally ASW vessels with a secondary AShW capability with its Silex missiles being anti sub torpedoes with a secondary anti ship capability.
this upgrade adding two UKSK launchers and Uran missiles is interesting as I would expect with the ability to carry 16 missiles in the UKSK launcher at least half will be the anti sub Klub missiles... probably three quarters... ie 12 of 16 missiles would be mach 2.5 ballistic rockets to deliver anti sub torpedoes up to 50km from the ship.
The Urans would be good enough for back up anti ship self defence, which leaves 4 tubes for something else like a land attack missile or more powerful anti ship weapon.
I suspect it will remain fundamentally anti sub, but when needed for land attack AKA Syria, then the Uran would protect the ship and 12 tubes of the UKSK could carry land attack missiles with 4 tubes left for anti sub work.....

I would wager that they will have 8 anti-sub Klubs and 8 Onyx anti-ship missiles.

By the time upgrade is complete Zircon will already be online. Having 8 Zircons instead of Onyx (which are already plenty powerful) would turn these ships from medium priority target to high level threat for any enemy. Add to that huge number of Urans they could potentially install as a bonus and whole thing gets even sweeter.

They will not need any land-attack capability. Given the construction pace of Buyans and Karakurts there will be huge amount of vessels available at any time for land attack missions. Larger multi-role ships will provide them with cover while they hit land targets.

Which is the whole point of this Udaloi upgrade: to convert them into proper multi-role vessels.

GarryB wrote:.......
It will be interesting to see what they actually do regarding angled UKSK tubes because this will have implications regarding the Slava class vessels.................

Slava class will probably be getting same type of UKSK adapters for Granit launchers that Oscar subs are getting but it's unlikely that other ship classes will get them. Udalois don't even have those launchers. And ones that they do (SIlex) will be removed.

T-47

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Post n°75

Re: Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

T-47 Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:25 pm

Silex removed or not? Two of you telling different things!

Russia Defence Forum

Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

Sovremennyy-class destroyers.

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