Udaloy and Sovremennyy destroyers

Why cant the entire udaloy fleet be converted in parallel? Not enough drydocks?

It is certain that "Admiral Chabanenko" and "Admiral Vinogradov" will be modernized because those two ships are already on modernization..
On the other hand, "Admiral Levchenko" underwent an extensive overhaul, but not modernization, so the ship will serve for a few more years for sure.
The question remains whether or not "Admiral Panteleyev" (1991 PF), which is the youngest LAS project 1155 in the Pacific Fleet, will also be modernized.
It is my opinion that all other ships will be decommissioned in the next few years ie; Vice Admiral Kulakov (1981 NF), Severomorsk (1987 NF), Admiral Tributs (1985 PF).
When the number of project 22350 frigates starts to increase, the number of LAS project 1155 will start to decrease.

Two different ships.
Two different modernisations.

And the Chabanenko went to the yard earlier.

Here is the Adm. CHABANENKO

More pictures of the real deal:

I've heard these ships are pretty popular as anti sub vessels. Even China uses their upgraded model for this but I think the 054b and later corvette anti sub models are finally overtaking them in capability. Is this somewhat true?

You are mixing up projects.
China never operated 1155.
They have 4 pcs of 956E destroyers, called Hangzhou class.
Which was not antisubmarine unit but a smaller seas flotilla flagman dedicated to supporting landing operations.

Krepost wrote:More pictures of the real deal:

What is this antenna for?

ALAMO wrote:You are mixing up projects.
China never operated 1155.
They have 4 pcs of 956E destroyers, called Hangzhou class.
Which was not antisubmarine unit but a smaller seas flotilla flagman dedicated to supporting landing operations.

Not so fast bro!
The Chinese type 55 seems to have taken a leaf from the Pr.21956 - itself a stealthy Udaloy redesign

Well, the Chinese closed to the SU in shipbuilding after sanctions followed Tienanmen.
They have made a turn toward Russian shipbuilding, paying for two unfinished 956s - No 18. and 19.
About the same time, they acquired 877 subs as well.
Chinese specialists started to be trained in the Russian naval facilities, and universities - someone had to operate and repair those ships, which was a part of the plan.
If you are asking me, Type 55 resembles 1136 on steroids
As far as I do consider some close technical connections of both industries reaching the early 90s, external shape means perfectly nothing.

Vympel wrote:
What is this antenna for?

Modernized Kinzhal if I am not mistaken.

Pshh I knew that but it is important to test the skill of forum users here. Yeah...

Udaloy is a beast in anti sub warfare. With UKSK and zirkon it becomes a very dangerous destroyer for any ship.

I always thought they should have just bought project 21956 as the backbone of their navy. It is based on Udaloy which at the time was master by shipyards. By now they would have had an upgraded version with 4 phased arraw radar rather than those moving radars and probably 32 UKSK instead of 16 and fixed VLS for S-400.

The real advantage of 1155 is its engines.
956 class boilers required careful maintenance which was impossible in the 90s.
This is why the Russkie physically used those ships to the sorrowful end, cannibalizing them till the very end.
It is not that the construction was shitty or something - Chinese proved that by using those ships for almost 30 years.
1155 was much more resistant, which is why now we have a bunch of those suitable for modernization.

I most likely asked this question before, but can someone tell me what is the maximum ship displacement/ size that the White Sea–Baltic Canal can accommodate?

Since the Baltic Sea is swarming with NATzO vermins, Russian vessels in the area might be a little exposed to enemy threats. And the concern also extends to Shipyards in the region, particularly the ones located in St. Petersburg.

I asked the question because it looks like Russia's latest surface ship, the Admiral Gorshkov-class, is built in the Severnaya Verf shipyard, if NATzO plays some stupid tricks in the Baltic sea, there is a risk that these ships might get trapped in there with no way out, BUT if the Gorshkovs can go through the WS-B Canal then it takes care of the problem.

Russia has Two other big shipyards, Sevmash in Severodvinsk (although this Shipyard seems to specialize in submarine construction), and the Zvezda Shipyard in Vladivostok, this shipyard is supposed to build large surface vessels but I don't know if the planned expansion (conceived in 2010) has come into fruition or if it has been Sabotaged again by NATzO sponsored fifth column traitors.  

PhSt wrote:I most likely asked this question before, but can someone tell me what is the maximum ship displacement/ size that the White Sea–Baltic Canal can accommodate?

Since the Baltic Sea is swarming with NATzO vermins, Russian vessels in the area might be a little exposed to enemy threats. And the concern also extends to Shipyards in the region, particularly the ones located in St. Petersburg.

I asked the question because it looks like Russia's latest surface ship, the Admiral Gorshkov-class, is built in the Severnaya Verf shipyard, if NATzO plays some stupid tricks in the Baltic sea, there is a risk that these ships might get trapped in there with no way out, BUT if the Gorshkovs can go through the WS-B Canal then it takes care of the problem.

I doubt you could traverse a frigate through these.

PhSt wrote:Russia has Two other big shipyards, Sevmash in Severodvinsk (although this Shipyard seems to specialize in submarine construction), and the Zvezda Shipyard in Vladivostok, this shipyard is supposed to build large surface vessels

There are several more large shipyards which can build frigates. Yantar in Kaliningrad, Zalyv in Crimea, Amur in the Far East.

Amur shipyard in the Far East has been building a floating dock. And they are supposed to be building frigates afterwards.

@ PhSt

Russia will have to stand it's ground in the Baltic - no matter what. At the same time it will be no different anywhere else for the Russians.
If the shit hits the fan in the Baltic Russia will probably be able to capture the Baltic states very quickly - securing the Kaliningrad enclave in the process.
I doubt NATzo will go nuclear if that happens. The Baltics will suffer the same fate as the Poles during WWII - lots of empty promises but no real help at all.

Hypersonic missiles will be a major threat to all NATzo shipping anywhere in the world for quite some time to come - never mind in the Baltic Sea.

ALAMO wrote:The real advantage of 1155 is its engines.
956 class boilers required careful maintenance which was impossible in the 90s.
This is why the Russkie physically used those ships to the sorrowful end, cannibalizing them till the very end.
It is not that the construction was shitty or something - Chinese proved that by using those ships for almost 30 years.
1155 was much more resistant, which is why now we have a bunch of those suitable for modernization.  

Last two Chinese ones were built in the 00s. They needed only 6 years between laid down and commissionning. Quite impressive.

The advantage of Sovs is that they have 2 big guns that can support landings on Taiwan. That's why they upgraded them and kept them in service.

Russian ones are old and rusty. It would be useless to upgrade them. Gorshkovs are much better designed anyway.

Arrow wrote:
Project 22350 the best If only Gorshkovs had been built faster. Almost 20 years have passed since the laying of the first unit and only the fourth unit is going on trials.

That's the problem with Navy fúcking up not with Gorshkov design

I would not say that it's the navy's fault - the main reason for the slow building program was mainly due to unavailability of turbines from the Ukraine - and then the eventual domestic development of a replacement engine. But yeah Russian shipbuilding should be taken up a notch to get more large surface ships into the water - like yesterday.

The future surface fleet should be based around the larger Pr. 22350M - which is practically a destroyer. The first should be laid down this year and currently there are 12 planned. More should be built.

lancelot wrote: There are several more large shipyards which can build frigates. Yantar in Kaliningrad, Zalyv in Crimea, Amur in the Far East.

Amur shipyard in the Far East has been building a floating dock. And they are supposed to be building frigates afterwards.

In addition Kherson shipyard (Russian territory, currently occupied by 404) was big enough to build quite large civilian ships (dry cargo ships, tankers, ice-breakers, container-ships, drilling vessels, and floating dry docks) up to 40000 tons displacement. Eventually it could even be used to build military ships (even if its civil use is also very important).

And let's not forget Nikolaev. It is very unlikely that the war in Ukraine will finish without at least returning Odessa and Nikolaev to Russia.

There are three big shipyards to be completely rebuilt there:
communara61 (nikolaev north), which used to build Kara and  Slava class destroyers), now in a very derelict state

Black sea shipyard (half destroyed by 404 to build there a grain terminal, and then probably hit during the war)

And Okean shipyard (very large civilian shipyard).

In addition there are probably good locations in Odessa to build other  shipyards, if needed (instead of concentrating everything in Sankt Petersburg area).

I am sure these shipyards would be very useful for Russia, even if they would need to invest a lot of money to rebuild them (as they have been rebuilt before after the original Nazi occupied Novorussia).

As an example former communara 61 shipyard (nikolaev north) could be assigned for frigates (and/or destroyers/cruisers) production after being rebuilt.

Furthermore if needed Russia could rebuild Zorya mashproekt in Nikolaev (I believe it has been destroyed in the war) and make it a subsidiary of Saturn and Zvezda, to have an additional place to build naval gas turbines and reductor gears.