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Here TR1, they moved the date to 2015 ... whats is the story with Ivan Grean?? Why stalling ...
Surrender BDK "Ivan Gren" fleet moved to 2015
Surrender BDK "Ivan Gren" fleet moved to 2015
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70 posters
Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
Fleet doesn't want it.
Time wise 2015 is easily achievable, but even if they accept the ship, I don't think they are interested in a second hull at this point.
Time wise 2015 is easily achievable, but even if they accept the ship, I don't think they are interested in a second hull at this point.
navyfield- Posts : 118
Points : 69
Join date : 2013-05-27
another failed design bites the dust ,thank god someone with sane mind canceled the sister ship and imported proper french naval technology eg. mistral !
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
Yeah thank god for huge useless French barges.
Even worse than Ivan Gren as far as the Russian navy is concerned.
Even worse than Ivan Gren as far as the Russian navy is concerned.
GarryB- Posts : 40520
Points : 41020
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Well we have to get the two french made vessels into Russian service and test them out before we can say they are any more useful than the Ivan Grens, but I suspect they will be more useful due to their increased size and multirole capabilities.
France is an imperial power from way back so it knows a thing or two about murdering savages in their own country... just like the UK and now the US, so Russia might find such a vessel useful as it becomes a more mobile blue water Navy.
France is an imperial power from way back so it knows a thing or two about murdering savages in their own country... just like the UK and now the US, so Russia might find such a vessel useful as it becomes a more mobile blue water Navy.
navyfield- Posts : 118
Points : 69
Join date : 2013-05-27
first i see no reason to bring up politics like you did so i wont comment and will stick to the topic.
second ,we already have experience with french mistral in french service and its great.
It will also be great for Russia in pacific island chain ,black sea ,baltic.
This move was criticised but it has proven to be a great leap forward for russian naval industry (from construction tech ,propulsion , electronics ....etc.) who lost pace with modern developments in the 90s.
And there will ofcourse be more mistral class ships built in Russia (and that confirms it was a good decision).
second ,we already have experience with french mistral in french service and its great.
It will also be great for Russia in pacific island chain ,black sea ,baltic.
This move was criticised but it has proven to be a great leap forward for russian naval industry (from construction tech ,propulsion , electronics ....etc.) who lost pace with modern developments in the 90s.
And there will ofcourse be more mistral class ships built in Russia (and that confirms it was a good decision).
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
Wow, that is some terrible circular logic, without any specifics.
What has been so "great" about it in French service? What exactly do French requirments have to do with the Russian navy, in both situation and doctrine?
Do tell how the Mistral is useful in "pacific islands (LOL)) and baltic.
Go into details how the buy has modernized Russia's propulsion building ability. Or construction tech. Wopadedo, Baltisky built have of a big steel barge. And? It could do that before.
And further Mistrals is by no means a fact at this point.
What has been so "great" about it in French service? What exactly do French requirments have to do with the Russian navy, in both situation and doctrine?
Do tell how the Mistral is useful in "pacific islands (LOL)) and baltic.
Go into details how the buy has modernized Russia's propulsion building ability. Or construction tech. Wopadedo, Baltisky built have of a big steel barge. And? It could do that before.
And further Mistrals is by no means a fact at this point.
George1- Posts : 18514
Points : 19019
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Ivan Gren is a landing ship tank. Mistral is a landing helicopter dock. Different ships
GarryB- Posts : 40520
Points : 41020
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
first i see no reason to bring up politics like you did so i wont comment and will stick to the topic.
The Mistral was not designed for the Russians... it has been modified for the Russians but is basically designed for French interests.
The Russian Navy think, with a few modifications, that it might be useful for them too but we really wont know till they get to test it.
second ,we already have experience with french mistral in french service and its great.
Can you provide information about what it has done since it has been in service that no other french platform (or indeed no other Russian platform) could have performed?
It will also be great for Russia in pacific island chain ,black sea ,baltic.
It is too big for the Black Sea and Baltic... it will be used in the Pacific and the Northern Fleet and the Arctic.
This move was criticised but it has proven to be a great leap forward for russian naval industry (from construction tech ,propulsion , electronics ....etc.) who lost pace with modern developments in the 90s.
You might be able to say such things after the second two vessels are built and the Russians actually make more than 30% of the ships. And that assumes they actually make them.
Of course you would be wrong as they have also been working with the South Koreans on how a shipyard should really work... the South Koreans could show the French a thing or two in that area.
I suspect they will make two more because they will want to be sure there are no trojans in them...
KomissarBojanchev- Posts : 1429
Points : 1584
Join date : 2012-08-05
Age : 27
Location : Varna, Bulgaria
What effin idiot in the BSF wouldn't want a new modern landing ship for the fleet and thinks the ancient project 775s are enough for amphibious operation there?
George1- Posts : 18514
Points : 19019
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
KomissarBojanchev wrote:What effin idiot in the BSF wouldn't want a new modern landing ship for the fleet and thinks the ancient project 775s are enough for amphibious operation there?
i agree, and 3-4 of them would be ideal for the replacement of more old ones Project 1171 Alligator
George1- Posts : 18514
Points : 19019
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
According to Kaliningrad shipyard "Yantar", large landing ship "Ivan Gren" Project 11711 will not be delivered to Russian Navy until 2015
runaway- Posts : 417
Points : 430
Join date : 2010-11-12
Location : Sweden
George1 wrote:KomissarBojanchev wrote:What effin idiot in the BSF wouldn't want a new modern landing ship for the fleet and thinks the ancient project 775s are enough for amphibious operation there?
i agree, and 3-4 of them would be ideal for the replacement of more old ones Project 1171 Alligator
And i cant see the Mistral being " to big" for baltic or black sea either. A big landing ship with helos should be better than small landing ships with limited capabilities and in higher sea states.
Admin- Posts : 2926
Points : 3798
Join date : 2009-07-10
TR1 wrote:Wow, that is some terrible circular logic, without any specifics.
What has been so "great" about it in French service? What exactly do French requirments have to do with the Russian navy, in both situation and doctrine?
Do tell how the Mistral is useful in "pacific islands (LOL)) and baltic.
Go into details how the buy has modernized Russia's propulsion building ability. Or construction tech. Wopadedo, Baltisky built have of a big steel barge. And? It could do that before.
And further Mistrals is by no means a fact at this point.
Mistral is far more than a floating barge, it is a forward deployed Army Air Corps base as well as hospital and command that can go anywhere.
In French service, the Mistral class has supported both combat and humanitarian missions numerous times. It provided air support, EVAC, SAR, heavy lift and medical missions. It is the most useful naval ship in French service.
It gives us the ability to threaten any neighbour who might have designs on our periphery as well as projecting force globally. Not to mention finally give the marines the ability to conduct joint operations with distant allies.
Mistral is far and above anything we have. Maybe we could have completed one ourselves, but it is cheaper to buy it off the French.
We have paid $800 million already, it is a fact to that point. The experienced gained in its construction is proper process of modular shipbuilding which is something we do not do well and has both military and commercial applications.
navyfield- Posts : 118
Points : 69
Join date : 2013-05-27
tell that to garry and tr1 ,they have their biased heads in clouds it seems 
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
Vladimir79 wrote:TR1 wrote:Wow, that is some terrible circular logic, without any specifics.
What has been so "great" about it in French service? What exactly do French requirments have to do with the Russian navy, in both situation and doctrine?
Do tell how the Mistral is useful in "pacific islands (LOL)) and baltic.
Go into details how the buy has modernized Russia's propulsion building ability. Or construction tech. Wopadedo, Baltisky built have of a big steel barge. And? It could do that before.
And further Mistrals is by no means a fact at this point.
Mistral is far more than a floating barge, it is a forward deployed Army Air Corps base as well as hospital and command that can go anywhere.
In French service, the Mistral class has supported both combat and humanitarian missions numerous times. It provided air support, EVAC, SAR, heavy lift and medical missions. It is the most useful naval ship in French service.
It gives us the ability to threaten any neighbour who might have designs on our periphery as well as projecting force globally. Not to mention finally give the marines the ability to conduct joint operations with distant allies.
Mistral is far and above anything we have. Maybe we could have completed one ourselves, but it is cheaper to buy it off the French.
We have paid $800 million already, it is a fact to that point. The experienced gained in its construction is proper process of modular shipbuilding which is something we do not do well and has both military and commercial applications.
Oh there is no doubt it is far more capable than anything Russian- of the type. Note I have never said Russia should try to build a Mistral equivalent on its own- that would be even stupider.
The question is is it a smart use of resources when the Russian Navy badly needs to replace escort and major surface combatants.
I think, it is not, at all.
In fact, in terms of doctrine and actual Russian Navy operational realities, the utility of the ships is debatable to say the least.
Further, there is little proof of the massive "learning" from the Mistral that everyone claims Russian shipbuilding has received.
Hell, the French did not even hand over the technology for the Zenit control system (pretty much the only thing from the ships the Russian Navy really wants) with 2 hulls - we have to buy FOUR to get that!
The whole thing smells of massive corruption potential, typical of many Serdukov era deals.
GarryB- Posts : 40520
Points : 41020
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
What effin idiot in the BSF wouldn't want a new modern landing ship for the fleet and thinks the ancient project 775s are enough for amphibious operation there?
Why would you want to put such a large target in such a small "lake"?
They would not need Mistral for operations against Georgia... they didn't need Mistral for operations against Georgia, while against the other NATo countries in the Black Sea... which exactly can you see such a vessel actually being of military use?
(Hint- Such conflicts will be nuclear and will not require amphibious operations).
Basing two Mistrals in the Pacific and two in the Northern Fleet means access to the two main oceans on the planet including the largest, in places of importance to Russia... ie ASIA and ARCTIC.
medo- Posts : 4343
Points : 4423
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
Anyone know if Russia will order additional 2 Mistrals for Northern fleet?
KomissarBojanchev- Posts : 1429
Points : 1584
Join date : 2012-08-05
Age : 27
Location : Varna, Bulgaria
I'm talking about the ivan gren being rejected not about the mistralGarryB wrote:What effin idiot in the BSF wouldn't want a new modern landing ship for the fleet and thinks the ancient project 775s are enough for amphibious operation there?
Why would you want to put such a large target in such a small "lake"?
They would not need Mistral for operations against Georgia... they didn't need Mistral for operations against Georgia, while against the other NATo countries in the Black Sea... which exactly can you see such a vessel actually being of military use?
(Hint- Such conflicts will be nuclear and will not require amphibious operations).
Basing two Mistrals in the Pacific and two in the Northern Fleet means access to the two main oceans on the planet including the largest, in places of importance to Russia... ie ASIA and ARCTIC.
GarryB- Posts : 40520
Points : 41020
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Anyone know if Russia will order additional 2 Mistrals for Northern fleet?
Unless there is a fatal flaw in the design the French haven't found yet or something substantial changes in Russias policy to the arctic I think the second pair of ships will be more practical use for Russia than the ones in the Pacific guarding the Kurile islands.
I think Russia will get a lot of good will from Pacific Island states if they plan good will visits that offer health care, but most of the islands are poor and rely on colonial support... which would be jeopardised if they start looking at Russia.
Of course two main issues for Pacific Islands that Russia could help with are fresh water supplies and electrical power generation. The nuclear power plant ships they are developing would be very useful for most Pacific Island nations where diesel generators are the main alternative, though solar and wind power also offer potential it would have to be without spoiling the environment as wind farms will ruin the tourist business there.
I'm talking about the ivan gren being rejected not about the mistral
My mistake...
Regarding the Ivan Gren, I have heard they want something with much more range and endurance so that it could be based in the BSF or the Baltic but operate over long ranges for long periods of time.
In other words a proper ocean going vessel that could go to the med or even africa if needed.
TR1- Posts : 5435
Points : 5433
Join date : 2011-12-06
Hmm, actual progress:
http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=381506&download=2&type=.jpg
http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=381506&download=2&type=.jpg
George1- Posts : 18514
Points : 19019
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
TR1 wrote:Hmm, actual progress:
http://www.wrk.ru/forums/attachment.php?item=381506&download=2&type=.jpg
i think this kind of ships look good to complement the mistrals
Viktor- Posts : 5796
Points : 6429
Join date : 2009-08-25
Age : 44
Location : Croatia
Looking good - finally 
Flyingdutchman- Posts : 535
Points : 551
Join date : 2013-07-30
Location : The Netherlands
When will it be commisioned?
George1- Posts : 18514
Points : 19019
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Flyingdutchman wrote:When will it be commisioned?
the title still says 2012
