Project 23900 "Ivan Rogov" Amphibious assault ship

Very suprised I could not find anything about this new class in the search. 25K ton helicopter carriers to be laidd down soon to replace the Mistrals. To be laid down soon!!

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/8634-analysis-part-1-russian-navy-starts-production-of-amphibious-assault-ships-project-23900.html

Universal Landing Ships thread is what you're after
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7867-universal-landing-ships-for-russian-navy

mnztr wrote:Very suprised I could not find anything about this new class in the search. 25K ton helicopter carriers to be laidd down soon to replace the Mistrals. To be laid down soon!!

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/8634-analysis-part-1-russian-navy-starts-production-of-amphibious-assault-ships-project-23900.html

Because they were a.t.m. covered into the Ivan Gran class thread, still I think is just the right time to have a dedicated one for them, so you are welcome.

So is this a Mistral knock off, or inspired? My understanding of the Russian Mistral project is that some super blocks were actally manufactured in Russia and floated over to be joined up in the French yard. The next 2 ships were supposed to be built in Russia, And Russia received substantial compensation from the French (Americans) to not deliver the ships..plus the Americans probably had to give Egypt the $ to purchase them lol. In any case the Russians obviously know the Mistral design in intimate detail, so I expect this is a modified Mistral. Opinions?

marcellogo wrote:

mnztr wrote:Very suprised I could not find anything about this new class in the search. 25K ton helicopter carriers to be laidd down soon to replace the Mistrals. To be laid down soon!!

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/focus-analysis/naval-technology/8634-analysis-part-1-russian-navy-starts-production-of-amphibious-assault-ships-project-23900.html

Because they were a.t.m. covered into the Ivan Gran class thread, still I think is just the right time to have a dedicated one for them, so you are welcome.

hoom wrote:Universal Landing Ships thread is what you're after
https://www.russiadefence.net/t7867-universal-landing-ships-for-russian-navy

Yes they were covered there, not in the Ivan gren thread.

However,  since this project got the green light, it deserves a dedicated thread... maybe we can even ask the mods to move some of the latest post to this new thread...

By the way I am not sure it will be called priboy...If I remember well priboy and Lavina were two concepts presented in 2015 by a russian design bureau...

The new project 23900 is of course inspired to them and to Mistral, but has received no name yet I believe...


Maybe we could call it Sevastopol (or Vladivostok)  class, if they confirm those names for the first two ships

Biggest warships built by Russia in a long time, certainly they are an intersting class and maybe will be streched to light carriers in later interations.

So is this a Mistral knock off, or inspired?

They wanted Mistrals... they ordered Mistrals, they helped build Mistrals and they paid for two Mistrals to be built... and by now they would have had 2-3 years of operational experience with the ships and would likely have ordered two more. Whether they got to make one or both would probably depend on their negotiating skills and the pig headedness of the French...

Of course with any purchase of any off the shelf design there will be things you don't like... but being an off the shelf design you can't modify the design too much otherwise it is no longer cheap or a safe design you can then make and expect to work the same as the original.

Mindstorm posted a link to a Russian critique of the Axe job on the Russian Navy and their new ship we essentially actually know very little about.

As they mention we really don't know a huge lot about their new ship but we do know there were a lot of things they didn't like about the Mistral and really this is a chance to fix those problems... things like a single engine room makes it vulnerable to battle damage taking it out with one hit, and of course the fact that it is not ice ready... which would be critical considering it will be expected to operate from the Pacific Fleet and the Northern Fleets so ice will be a factor.

The article also mentions that it will be performing the same role as the Mistral so in many ways it will look alike, but you can't just scale designs up so the fact that it will be significantly bigger and likely have different propulsion means it wont be a copy.

Most likely it will have Redut or other similar SAM system for self defence and also likely Pantsir at the very least in each corner of the deck... possibly two more in the middle in waist positions.

In any case the Russians obviously know the Mistral design in intimate detail, so I expect this is a modified Mistral. Opinions?

They will have Mistral plans but also plans and designs from their own design bureaus that they could mix together to get what they want.

There were a lot of issues with the design of the Mistral they didn't like... when they are designing and building for themselves from scratch they can eliminate those problems. Most drawings I have seen show two smoke stacks for instance... which suggests two engine rooms at least... and being a larger heavier ship they would likely need more power too...

Maybe we could call it Sevastopol (or Vladivostok)  class, if they confirm those names for the first two ships

The plan was always to use these ships in the Pacific Fleet and the Northern Fleet, so Vladivostok is rather more likely.

We need to wait for more information to see what is actually happening and then we can decide what needs to be moved or merged...

GarryB wrote:

Maybe we could call it Sevastopol (or Vladivostok)  class, if they confirm those names for the first two ships

The plan was always to use these ships in the Pacific Fleet and the Northern Fleet, so Vladivostok is rather more likely.

That is the most probable choice, even if a ship like that could be useful also in the mediterranean (and the northern fleet still has the kuznetov).

I remember reading an article from a couple of years ago where they mentioned that the Pacific fleet would ideally need 2 large amphibious assault ships/helicopter carriers, and the northern and black sea fleet one each

Edit: it will take a while, anyway, before they could even think about building the third and fourth ship of this serie...
In the meanwhile probably a couple of modified Ivan gren class could be enough for the black sea fleet (if they start building more than 2)..

In Russia, began to select crews for domestic helicopter carriers

For the first domestic helicopter carriers began to pick up crews. We are talking about two universal landing ships (UDC) of project 23900 Vladivostok and Sevastopol, sources in the Defense Ministry told Izvestia.

According to the interlocutors of the publication, there will be a large helicopter group on board the Russian landing ships, and the crew will include, in addition to sailors, representatives of aviation and marines.

Sources noted that it is planned to pay special attention to aviation technical posts - their qualifications must meet the highest requirements, as specialists will have to maintain the combat effectiveness of equipment away from their native shores.

The crews themselves, according to interlocutors of Izvestia, will be staffed by 2022. By this time, the training program for training the team will also be prescribed. It will take time to develop it, since there are no ships of a similar class as part of the Russian Navy, sources said.

https://iz.ru/1030392/2020-07-01/v-rossii-nachali-podbirat-ekipazhi-dlia-otechestvennykh-vertoletonostcev

Full Article later

The French charged the Russians 1.37 billion Euros for the two ships which was described as being 720 million Euros for the first one and 650 million euros for the second.

That works out at about 1.54 billion US dollars, and the figure given... 100 billion rubles works out at about 1.44 billion US dollars.

Considering it has been 5 years, and these are actually bigger heavier ships I think that is a bargain... especially considering not a ruble is going to French ship builders this time, it is all going to Russian ship builders and sub contractors that make Russian stuff... at 25 K tons it is about 3.5K tons heavier and can carry four more helicopters... and most importantly will be done to their own specification and requirements.... within reason of course.

They are also the lead units, so a portion of the cost will represent R&D activities.  Lead vessels are always more expensive than serial-build units (like the Mistrals).

Big_Gazza wrote:They are also the lead units, so a portion of the cost will represent R&D activities.  Lead vessels are always more expensive than serial-build units (like the Mistrals).

Good point, and thy need more than 2, and in the future they have the competency to export.

GarryB wrote:The French charged the Russians 1.37 billion Euros for the two ships which was described as being 720 million Euros for the first one and 650 million euros for the second.

That works out at about 1.54 billion US dollars, and the figure given... 100 billion rubles works out at about 1.44 billion US dollars.

Considering it has been 5 years, and these are actually bigger heavier ships I think that is a bargain... especially considering not a ruble is going to French ship builders this time, it is all going to Russian ship builders and sub contractors that make Russian stuff... at 25 K tons it is about 3.5K tons heavier and can carry four more helicopters... and most importantly will be done to their own specification and requirements.... within reason of course.

That was what was chaged by the French, but its my understanding that Russia also supplied and manufactured signification sections of the ship no? So you have to add that to the total of what the Mistrals would have cost.

It ultimately doesn't matter because Mistral class ships from France are really not an option.

Usually when you build something for yourself it costs more to make... and it also takes much longer with no assurance you will get it right... that is why they bought the Mistrals in the first place... they might not have been exactly what they wanted but the price was reasonable for ships that size and they were a proven reliable design with no serious problems.

Turns out the French government has no spine and will screw you to your face... which is an important lesson for Russia to learn... one of many they have had to take in the last few decades... Yeltsin actually thought Russia and the US were friends, and Putin entered power thinking lots of good things could be done in cooperating with the west, but the west thinks it won the cold war and that it can therefore dictate to everyone how everything should be... and no back talk from the losers.

Terrible lost opportunity but that ship has clearly sailed... Russia is looking to China and India and other countries that are not joined to the west at the hip and the lip and can't make decisions of their own without checking from Washington first.

From a western perspective not only have they lost a large and powerful potential ally, but the world opposition gained an ally with technology every bit as good as the wests technology, and significant energy resources too. All they had to do was recognise that Russia has its own interests like any other country on the planet and to show a little respect towards those interests... but they couldn't even do that.

I should add that the extra costs these ships are going to add to the budget is not problem at all because those extra funds will go to Russian companies and sub contractors and businesses, and Russian taxpayers who will spend their money inside the Russian economy... saving 100 million dollars by buying French ships means 1.4 billion going to the French economy and French workers who will pay tax in France and spend their money in the French economy... so not really saving 100 million dollars at all.... actually putting 1.3 billion dollars into the French economy vs putting it into the Russian economy...

Interesting hull form.

Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
15h
Russia will lay down its two Project 23900 Priboy-class amphibious assault ships this week at the Zaliv Shipyard. They will be 220 meters long, with a 25k ton displacement, and will be able to carry 20 helos and 2 reinforced naval infantry battalions.





Full press release in Russian https://iz.ru/1034553/roman-kretcul-aleksei-ramm/pod-shum-priboia-rossiiskie-mistrali-zalozhat-v-blizhaishie-dni

First para via Yandex

The UDC 23900 "Priboy" project was developed by the Nevsky design Bureau. To build a Russian "Mistral" will be on the Kerch shipyard "Zaliv". Earlier it was reported that the amount of the contract signed in the spring of the Ministry of defense with the enterprise amounted to 100 billion rubles.

The project was developed for several years. For the first time, the model of the ship was shown back in 2015, but after that, engineers and military experts agreed on its parameters for a long time. It was only at the end of last year that the UDC's appearance and characteristics were finally determined. Initially, the ship was supposed to have a length of 165 m, a displacement of 14 thousand tons, a speed of up to 20 knots and carry up to eight helicopters on Board, but by the final stage of design, all the characteristics were significantly increased. UDC, which will be laid in the next few days, will have a displacement of 25 thousand tons and a length of about 220 m. As a result, Russian helicopter carriers will surpass the French ones in size (displacement-22 thousand tons, length-199 m). This size will allow the Russian ship to take on Board up to 20 helicopters and two reinforced marine battalions.

That's the image of Lavina project

I guess will have to wait until tomorrow to finally figure out what the hell are they building

Putin rescheduled a trip to Crimea to the ceremony of laying new Navy ships on July 20

Moscow. July 16. INTERFAX - Russian President Vladimir Putin postponed a previously scheduled working trip to Crimea to attend the ceremony of laying down warships and will hold the first meeting in Moscow on the upcoming budget process, said presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov.

https://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=534985&lang=RU

Postponed to Monday

Another render.



https://www.business-gazeta.ru/article/475280

Is this?