Project 11711: "Ivan Gren" class

So the so called 8.4k tons displacement for 11711M is actually standard displacement, which means the full displacement should be around 10k tons.
Very impressed...

xeno wrote:So the so called 8.4k tons displacement for 11711M is actually standard displacement, which means the full displacement should be around 10k tons.
Very impressed...

This class has potential to go from Soviet dead end to backbone of future transport fleet

If this works it will be greatest comeback in shipbuilding history

And it will be even more epic if they get that double digit order

Shipyard's problems: solved

Navy's problems: solved

LMFS wrote:Further about the modified 11711, from an interview to Yantar's head:

- How is the work on two BDK modernized project 11711 going? Are there any difficulties with them?

- There are no difficulties. But any construction plant wants to build serial ships. And, of course, we would like us not to modernize, but to receive a series, for example, of 14 ships, in order to replace all the landing ships of previous years with new ones. Yes, the upgraded ships of Project 11711 will be much more efficient both in displacement and in landing capacity.

- How does the BDK of the modernized project 11711 differ from the standard one?

- If the standard displacement is about 6 thousand tons, then the modernized one - 40% more. The main dimensions of the upgraded ship are larger, including the length, the speed is slightly higher, the power of the main power plant is completely different, because the ship is larger. Increased cruising range. Naturally, more crew. The landing capacity for wheeled vehicles has increased by 100%. Improved navigation component support.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/10733689

So different engines, higher speed, length and range, 100% increased capacity for wheeled vehicles, 8500 t displacement... looking good

The engines suppose to power the larger Pr.11711 are the new 10,000hp diesel units.
Hope this helps in the revival of the diesel engines development & production and moves further ahead into the 10,000kW units which are mostly sourced from Wartsila, MTU, etc.

xeno wrote:So the so called 8.4k tons displacement for 11711M is actually standard displacement, which means the full displacement should be around 10k tons.
Very impressed...

Not sure about the 10K displacement full load.
The brochure spec mentioned it as 8,000t full displacement, maybe ~8,500t max.


As for the ships itself, considering the state in which the Russia Navy finds itself in, this is good. But my preference would have been the revival of Pr.1174 or a class which offered similar capacity.

Dima wrote:

xeno wrote:So the so called 8.4k tons displacement for 11711M is actually standard displacement, which means the full displacement should be around 10k tons.
Very impressed...

Not sure about the 10K displacement full load.
The brochure spec mentioned it as 8,000t full displacement, maybe ~8,500t max.


As for the ships itself, considering the state in which the Russia Navy finds itself in, this is good. But my preference would have been the revival of Pr.1174 or a class which offered similar capacity.

Why? This modified class is similar to the san Giorgio class and from the information available seems to have good capabilities. As far as the 1174 where is the need? They even retired those hull relatively early.

Anyway, they are building two new amphibious assault ships (helo carriers) in Zaliv with a displacement 2 to 3 times larger than 1174... and those two ships are even carrying the same name as two of the 1174... so they are (also) replacing those, while offering much greater capabilities.

Dima wrote:
As for the ships itself, considering the state in which the Russia Navy finds itself in, this is good. But my preference would have been the revival of Pr.1174 or a class which offered similar capacity....

No way, those things as dinosaurs

Stock Gren would be better solution, hell even restarting Ropuchas would have been more efficient

And who knows how many Ukrainian parts 1174s have, those are straight from the 70s

it would cost way more money than its worth to bring Ivan's back into service assuming they even could.

But my preference would have been the revival of Pr.1174 or a class which offered similar capacity.

Would be redundant to bring the Ivan Rogovs back into service, and the fact that they have laid down two new ships reportedly in the 40K ton class and one of them is called the Ivan Rogov I suspect they will take their place, so the second option of your wish seems to be going to be granted...

GarryB wrote:Would be redundant to bring the Ivan Rogovs back into service, and the fact that they have laid down two new ships reportedly in the 40K ton class and one of them is called the Ivan Rogov I suspect they will take their place, so the second option of your wish seems to be going to be granted...

I think my use of "revival" created all the confusions. Sorry about that.
What I meant was, not to resurrect the old 1174s, but to have a new ship based on a revised/optimised design/capacity of 1174.

Dima wrote:

GarryB wrote:Would be redundant to bring the Ivan Rogovs back into service, and the fact that they have laid down two new ships reportedly in the 40K ton class and one of them is called the Ivan Rogov I suspect they will take their place, so the second option of your wish seems to be going to be granted...

I think my use of "revival" created all the confusions. Sorry about that.
What I meant was, not to resurrect the old 1174s, but to have a new ship based on a revised/optimised design/capacity of 1174.

they are already doing that with the upgraded Gren's.

Pr.1174 deploying its two Lebed off South Yemen in 1979.


The above is what represents 1174.
500+ marines + 40+ MBTs Or 80+ APCs (both of which when well deck is utilized).
Unfortunately not many realize or appreciates what's at your disposal, inhouse, the result being - Russian Navy is still 4-5 years away from getting similar capability.

It's a capability that was left to decay 30 years ago, but was recoverable even a decade back (with a revised/optimised design) until the disaster struck in the form of Mistral deal in 2011.

The lust for Mistral deal in certain quarters & the bad, myopic decisions earlier made, which resulted in 11711 Ivan Gren (partly as a result of funding issues for "large" projects/undertakings during those years), made sure no one even bothered (?) to pursue a revised/optimised 1174 design.

If the highly inadequate 11711 Ivan Gren project could be salvaged with a new scaled up & more capable 11711, there was pretty much that could have been done with the 1174... if not for the myopic decisions made under those very rough years.



Don't want the topic diverted from the new 11711. So ending it here.

Eh they can carry a bit more tanks but the Russian army isn't the size of the Red Army, when the Rogov's were made the red army was like what 4M men strong?

So having 15k ton landing ships as standard doesn't make sense cost-wise when your army is nowhere near that size, doesn't even make sense operational-wise. The Russians have no need for basic landing ships that large, they do not have the manpower or budget to really justify it.

They are also laying down helio carriers and the 8k Gren's will work alongside those.

8k Gren is more than enough for the Russians requirements.

They are making two 40K ton helicopter landing ships that can easily replicate and replace what the old Ivan Rogov ships did.

The Ivan Gren is to replace all the smaller landing ships like the Alligator and Rogov class boats...

The hull of the upgraded "lander" for the Russian Navy will be formed before the end of the year. 

The hull of the lead large landing ship of the upgraded project 11711 will be formed before the end of 2021. This was announced to TASS during the International Naval Salon by Ilya Samarin, General Director of the Baltic Shipyard Yantar.

"By the end of 2021, it is planned to form the hull of the lead ship on the slipway," he said.

According to him, the construction of two large landing ships "Vladimir Andreev" and "Vasily Trushin" is carried out in accordance with the technical project approved in 2020. "The plant tries to meet the deadlines set by the general schedule and production program. By the end of 2021, it is planned to complete the production of working and design documentation, contract the entire volume of component equipment, products and systems, and form the hull of the lead ship on the slipway."

Initially, the plant built two large landing ships project 11711 "Ivan Gren" and "Peter Morgunov". They were transferred to the Russian Navy. On April 23, 2019, in a video conference mode, in which Russian President Vladimir Putin took part while at Severnaya Verf, the plant held a groundbreaking ceremony for two large landing ships modernized project 11711 "Vladimir Andreev"and" Vasily Trushin".

As stated by officials, in particular the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Alexey Rakhmanov, the large landing ship of the upgraded project will differ from their predecessors in large displacement. They will be distinguished by a new superstructure-one instead of two, as well as the ability to carry combat helicopters.

Source: https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/11736137

Isos wrote:Some shtil launcher can be added on the front to turn it into an air defence ship when not used for landing ops.

For now lets just get them in the water and running, VMF is getting short on transports

They can worry about after sales upgrades later

Yantar shipyard completed the formation of the hull of the ship Vladimir Andreev in the slipway shop, further construction will be continued in open slipway

https://sudostroenie.info/novosti/33652.html

Can't work out if she is north or south bound past Dover on Monday. Was she in St Petersburg? If so could be southbound heading perhaps for a bit of Syrian Express shakedown

You would think they could get much clearer and higher quality images seeing as how it is a Russian ship so clearly deep in UK territorial waters... it is almost like they are respecting international law and remaining in international waters... weird...