Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

hoom wrote:
They seem to say 'Caliber' quite a bit in it?

Nope.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The Slava-class missile cruiser Marshal Ustinov went through repairs and is scheduled to return to Russia's Northern Fleet main base in Severomorsk by the end of 2016, the vice president of the United Shipbuilding Corporation said Wednesday.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/russia/201611161047516376-russia-navy-missile-cruiser/

A1RMAN wrote:

hoom wrote:
They seem to say 'Caliber' quite a bit in it?

Nope.

That's a big mistake, but it seems right now it's more important to have seaworthy, operational ships out there, rather than ideal capability on them.

Apparently yes just electronics & radars.
I guess maybe they will do a round2 with missile upgrades after the others get their upgrade?

hoom wrote:Apparently yes just electronics & radars.
I guess maybe they will do a round2 with missile upgrades after the others get their upgrade?

Current weapon setup is hardly lightweight.

Granit is still a monster and they probably wanted to keep nuclear option readily available. S-300 and anti-sub setup are still going strong as well.

And this way they completed overhaul in decent time which probably factored into decision to go with this approach.

Good call I say.

Russian Navy Slava-class Cruiser Marshal Utsinov Completes First Trials After Modernization

The Marshal Ustinov missile cruiser of the Northern fleet returned to Severodvinsk after the first test sortie following maintenance and upgrade, spokesman of the Zvezdochka Shipyard Yevgeny Gladyshev told TASS.


"The cruiser sailed exactly a month and tested all systems of the warship. It covered over 4 thousand nautical miles. Besides the crew, there were close to 200 experts of the acceptance team from Zvezdochka and subcontractors onboard," he said.

Gladyshev said all exposed drawbacks will be eliminated in two-three weeks and in the end of December the Marshal Ustinov will sail out for the home port of call in Severodvinsk where the main base of the fleet is located.

The maintenance and upgrade of the cruiser began in 2011. In particular, the gas-turbine generators and the main engines, hull systems and the main cable were repaired. The basic radio-electronic warfare complexes have been upgraded.

Copyright 2016 TASS. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


Navy Recognition's comment:
According to various sources, the Marshal Ustinov is being fitted with an advanced missile system, probably, the Kalibr (SS-N-27 Sizzler) or Oniks (SS-N-26 Strobile). The upgrade will provide the cruiser with the Podberyozovik three-dimensional long-range target acquisition radar and Fregat-M2M sea-skimming target acquisition radar. There have been statements that the ship will not receive advanced air defense missile systems.

The Project 1164 Atlant-class cruisers are designed for dealing with enemy surface combatants and providing combat stability of Russian task forces in remote corners of the ocean. The development of the class began in the later 1970s. Four cruisers were built, of which three are in the Russian Navy’s inventory. The cruisers in the class displace a total of 11,500 tons and measure 186 m in length. They have a full speed of 32 knots, a range of 7,500 nm at 18 knots, a 130-mm AK-130 gun, antiship and air defense missile systems, 30-mm AK-630M antiaircraft guns and torpedoes. They can carry a Kamov Ka-27 (Helix) helicopter or derivatives thereof.

Source: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2016/december-2016-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/4637-russian-navy-slava-class-cruiser-marshal-utsinov-completes-first-trials-after-modernization.html

Granit is still a monster and they probably wanted to keep nuclear option readily available. S-300 and anti-sub setup are still going strong as well.

It seems based on recent reports that the Granit now has land attack capability, which makes it more versatile, but when they run out of missiles they could easily do what they are doing with the Oscar class SSGNs and replace each Granit tube with three tubes for Onix or Zircon... so 48 missiles for Slava class and 60 missiles for Kirov class vessels without even fitting UKSK....

Onix and Kalibr also come in nuke armed models BTW.

Russian Missile Cruiser Marshal Ustinov Back in Service After 5-Year Hiatus

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/russia/201612261048997795-russian-missile-cruiser/

Upgraded Slava-class Cruiser Marshal Ustinov Returns to Northern Fleet’s Base

The Project 1164 (NATO reporting name: Slava-class) guided missile cruiser Marshal Ustinov has returned to the Northern Fleet’s Naval Station Severomorsk after five-year absence, according to the fleet’s press office. The cruiser has been repaired and upgraded by the Zvyozdochka Shipyard in Severodvinsk since 2011.


At the pier the ship docked to, she was met in a ceremony led by Northern Fleet Commander Vice Admiral Nikolai Yevmenov," the press office added. Yevmenov said the crew of the upgraded cruiser would immediately start its training and begin to carry out the fleet’s tasks.

Zvyozdochka has repaired the cruiser and upgraded her weapons control, radio technical and communications systems. The crew accommodations and service rooms have been overhauled too. During October and November 2016, the crew completed the acceptance test program. Following a scrutiny of all the systems and mechanisms on the high seas, the uprated cruiser was handed over to the Northern Fleet.

The Russian Navy operates three missile cruisers in the class - the Moskva (Black Sea Fleet), Varyag (Pacific Fleet) and Marshal Ustinov (Northern Fleet).

Copyright 2016 TASS. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


Navy Recognition's comment:
According to various sources, the Marshal Ustinov is being fitted with an advanced missile system, probably, the Kalibr (SS-N-27 Sizzler) or Oniks (SS-N-26 Strobile). The upgrade will provide the cruiser with the Podberyozovik three-dimensional long-range target acquisition radar and Fregat-M2M sea-skimming target acquisition radar. There have been statements that the ship will not receive advanced air defense missile systems.

The Project 1164 Atlant-class cruisers are designed for dealing with enemy surface combatants and providing combat stability of Russian task forces in remote corners of the ocean. The development of the class began in the later 1970s. Four cruisers were built, of which three are in the Russian Navy’s inventory. The cruisers in the class displace a total of 11,500 tons and measure 186 m in length. They have a full speed of 32 knots, a range of 7,500 nm at 18 knots, a 130-mm AK-130 gun, antiship and air defense missile systems, 30-mm AK-630M antiaircraft guns and torpedoes. They can carry a Kamov Ka-27 (Helix) helicopter or derivatives thereof.


Source: http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2016/december-2016-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/4743-upgraded-slava-class-cruiser-marshal-ustinov-returns-to-northern-fleet-s-base-following.html

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Good news . I don't know that the other two cruisers of the class (Moskva and Varyag) should be overhauled on a similar manner like the Ustinov, but it would all depend on the capacity of other Russian shipyards, but I think that there is no urgent need for it.

BTW that seal on the last picture is epic, maybe he just came over to admire the newly refitted cruiser... (Just kidding )

Hmmm.... "According to various sources"... is there any credible confirmation that M.Ustinov has indeed traded her P-500 (P-1000?) for Kalibre/Oniks? I hope so, as her combat potential will greatly enhanced if true.

Now, what about Moskva and Varyag? Hopefully with the experience of the Ustinov under their belt, the Zvezdochka shipyard can turn around her sister ships in a more, shall we say... timely... manner?

Big_Gazza wrote:Hmmm....   "According to various sources"...   is there any credible confirmation that M.Ustinov has indeed traded her P-500 (P-1000?) for Kalibre/Oniks?  I hope so, as her combat potential will greatly enhanced if true.

Now, what about Moskva and Varyag?  Hopefully with the experience of the Ustinov under their belt, the Zvezdochka shipyard can turn around her sister ships in a more, shall we say... timely... manner?

The question is: if they put everything in a dock (Nakhimov, Kuznetsov, Moskva, Varyag), who is gonna be on duty?

A1RMAN wrote:The question is: if they put everything in a dock (Nakhimov, Kuznetsov, Moskva, Varyag), who is gonna be on duty?

Simple, one at a time... I'd put Varyag thru next, as Moskva has P-1000 Vulkans, so leave her till last.

Once Adm "The Beast" Nahkimov is done, its time for Big Pete to get his gunz buffed :-)

is there any credible confirmation that M.Ustinov has indeed traded her P-500 (P-1000?) for Kalibre/Oniks? I hope so, as her combat potential will greatly enhanced if true.

Sadly none that I've seen

Bunch of pics of Ustinov via Balancer forum

Spoiler:

Any ideas why snow sitting on only the front missile tubes?

Very odd... nothing else on the ship seems to have any ice or snow on it...

It seems there's a major planning breakdown here or they're hiding something.
They spent half a decade upgrading a ship but omitted upgrading the obsolete weapons on-board.

The weapons are not obsolete.

If they cannot be easily upgraded to the new standardised system there is no point in upgrading them... make it an electronics/systems/sensors upgrade as a cheap and easy fix and then design a class of cruiser to replace them all.

GarryB wrote:The weapons are not obsolete.

If they cannot be easily upgraded to the new standardised system there is no point in upgrading them... make it an electronics/systems/sensors upgrade as a cheap and easy fix and then design a class of cruiser to replace them all.

Sure I get the sensor upgrade, of course I don't seem to notice any new Search or Tracking radar upgrades. What do you mean not obsolete? They're those Soviet weapons as far the information at hand goes. They spend all these years, not putting new weapons. Whether that's encouraging or positive is not up to debate. It's not.

KiloGolf wrote:

GarryB wrote:The weapons are not obsolete.

If they cannot be easily upgraded to the new standardised system there is no point in upgrading them... make it an electronics/systems/sensors upgrade as a cheap and easy fix and then design a class of cruiser to replace them all.

Sure I get the sensor upgrade, of course I don't seem to notice any new Search or Tracking radar upgrades. What do you mean not obsolete? They're those Soviet weaponsas far the information at hand goes. They spend all these years, not putting new weapons. Whether that's encouraging or positive is not up to debate. It's not.

Those are armored long range supersonic nuclear capable swarm mode anti-ship missiles we are talking about here. They are not obsolete.

Core purpose of these ships has remained the same: targeting surface vessels in early stages of global nuclear war. They are perfectly armed for that gig.

They will never be equipped for land-attack missions because that is 2nd tier work that is meant for small sized vessels.

They needed engine overhaul and new sensors and radars. They got them. On to next one.

PapaDragon wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

GarryB wrote:The weapons are not obsolete.

If they cannot be easily upgraded to the new standardised system there is no point in upgrading them... make it an electronics/systems/sensors upgrade as a cheap and easy fix and then design a class of cruiser to replace them all.

Sure I get the sensor upgrade, of course I don't seem to notice any new Search or Tracking radar upgrades. What do you mean not obsolete? They're those Soviet weaponsas far the information at hand goes. They spend all these years, not putting new weapons. Whether that's encouraging or positive is not up to debate. It's not.

Those are armored long range supersonic nuclear capable swarm mode anti-ship missiles we are talking about here. They are not obsolete.

Core purpose of these ships has remained the same: targeting surface vessels in early stages of global nuclear war. They are perfectly armed for that gig.

They will never be equipped for land-attack missions because that is 2nd tier work that is meant for small sized vessels.

They needed engine overhaul and new sensors and radars. They got them. On to next one.

New radars in what sense and for what purpose? The whole project has characteristics of extended overhaul rather than meaningful upgrade. Also a dozen+ of anti-ship missiles from the '80s hardly qualify as swarm. Obsolescence is a result of their age, inefficient design by 2017 standards and invalid doctrine that nobody needs. How is 2nd tier work Russia's responsibility towards their allies and their own national security? I'm afraid there's something fishy about this, either they've installed new weapons capability that they don't advertise or they wasted their time and cash, as they've done in the past.

KiloGolf wrote:.....

New radars in what sense and for what purpose? The whole project has characteristics of extended overhaul rather than meaningful upgrade. Also a dozen+ of anti-ship missiles from the '80s hardly qualify as swarm. Obsolescence is a result of their age, inefficient design by 2017 standards and invalid doctrine that nobody needs. How is 2nd tier work Russia's responsibility towards their allies and their own national security? I'm afraid there's something fishy about this, either they've installed new weapons capability that they don't advertise or they wasted their time and cash, as they've done in the past.

16 nuclear tipped missiles is not something you want coming your way.

How is doctrine invalid? Threat has not changed. Types of targets are same as before.

Shooting some random idiots in 3rd world shitholes is definitely 2nd tier work. Russia's national security is serviced by it's nuclear arsenal not conventional cruise missiles. Those are for stuff like Syria or need be, Ukraine. Still overkill but it looks good and you don't need to risk pilots.

Rebuilding ship this size to accommodate new weapons for no reason or real necessity is hardly efficient especialy when you have shortage of vessels. Put new missiles on new ships.

And overhaul was originally planed during ''good old days'' so there will be delay. 90's and immediate aftermath are not relevant benchmark.

PapaDragon wrote:16 nuclear tipped missiles is not something you want coming your way.

Actually it's not a major threat as tipping them with nuclear warheads takes away their first-strike or general strike potential.
No nuclear power cares much about tipping surface vessels like that, hence SSBNs are tasked for those purposes.

PapaDragon wrote:How is doctrine invalid? Threat has not changed. Types of targets are same as before.

Well that particular doctrine called for more than three of such cruisers and in a context of a much larger and more capable Navy. Right now Russia has a very poorly kitted fleet, with very small numbers of frigates and destroyers.

PapaDragon wrote:Shooting some random idiots in 3rd world shitholes is definitely 2nd tier work. Russia's national security is serviced by it's nuclear arsenal not conventional cruise missiles. Those are for stuff like Syria or need be, Ukraine. Still overkill but it looks good and you don't need to risk pilots.

OK it's second tier work that currently no major RuN surface vessel can fulfill, apart from two frigates and nine brown water corvettes.

PapaDragon wrote:Rebuilding ship this size to accommodate new weapons for no reason or real necessity is hardly efficient especially when you have shortage of vessels. Put new missiles on new ships.

For me it's not efficient at all, over 700 folks complement with very limited (next to none really) land strike capability.
It's very much a waste of space and resources.

KiloGolf wrote:......

For me it's not efficient at all, over 700 folks complement with very limited (next to none really) land strike capability.
It's very much a waste of space and resources.

In ideal situation those would all be good arguments but this is not ideal situation.

You correctly observed that components of Soviet Navy that Russia inherited are not perfect. They are not but are still capable of getting the job done.

Only alternative is to scrap the whole thing which would be valid option if they had replacements. They don't have them yet.

Smart thing to do is to use what you have. And this class is pretty useful all things considered.