Project 1164 Atlant: Slava Class cruiser

A ship that size is useful if you have no alternative... but a ship that size in a bad shape is more of a liability than something useful.

They had to make the decision of whether to do a full upgrade with all new weapons and systems or to just upgrade electronics and propulsion.

The design of the ship means that the new designed more stealthy weapons are not compatible with the older design so they decided to go with a less ambitious upgrade.

They could have spent an enormous amount of money and done a full upgrade but it would always be a Slava class vessel with new systems... it will never be a new ship.

They clearly decided to spend less money on the upgrade and get it into the water quicker and while wasting less money so resources and money and shipyard time can be spent on more useful things.

Actually it's not a major threat as tipping them with nuclear warheads takes away their first-strike or general strike potential.
No nuclear power cares much about tipping surface vessels like that, hence SSBNs are tasked for those purposes.

From locations in the Black Sea or the North Sea a Slava class ship with Vulcan missiles with nuclear warheads would be very effective in a first strike role against NATO.

16 supersonic low flying missile with 1,000km range would be an ideal way to deal with the European based ABM system and of course various targets in the UK and France...

They adapted the Granit to land attack capability... do you think if they can do that for a missile no longer in production that they might also do that for a missile that is in production...

GarryB wrote:

Actually it's not a major threat as tipping them with nuclear warheads takes away their first-strike or general strike potential.
No nuclear power cares much about tipping surface vessels like that, hence SSBNs are tasked for those purposes.

From locations in the Black Sea or the North Sea a Slava class ship with Vulcan missiles with nuclear warheads would be very effective in a first strike role against NATO.

16 supersonic low flying missile with 1,000km range would be an ideal way to deal with the European based ABM system and of course various targets in the UK and France...

They adapted the Granit to land attack capability... do you think if they can do that for a missile no longer in production that they might also do that for a missile that is in production...

There are only three Slava and only two are anywhere near NATO/Europe. One of them is basically bared to operate at open sea if SHTF.
Two dozens or so of cruise missiles are not a threat for anything significant.

European ABM is also highly ship-based in areas and seas that those two Slavas cannot even reach to fire a few silver bullets from the 80s.

Big_Gazza wrote:

Simple, one at a time...   I'd put Varyag thru next, as Moskva has P-1000 Vulkans, so leave her till last.

Actually all ships of the class is equipped with P-1000 "Vulkan" missiles, so no worries about the main firepower of the cruisers.



What I miss from the Ustinov is the AK-630M-2 "Duet" CIWS. All Slava-class cruisers have 6 single, six-barrelled rotary AK-630 cannons (2 facing forward, 2 facing starboard (right side of the ship) and 2 facing port (left side of the ship)).

The "Duet" is basically 2 of these guns built into one complex. You can find them on Buyan-M-class corvettes. As for the Ustinov, it could have 3 of these instead of 6 single ones would make sense IMO.

European ABM is also highly ship-based in areas and seas that those two Slavas cannot even reach to fire a few silver bullets from the 80s.

The ground based components would be vulnerable to attack...

Vulkan would still be dangerous for even the most modern ship on the planet using a conventional warhead.

KiloGolf wrote:

There are only three Slava and only two are anywhere near NATO/Europe. One of them is basically bared to operate at open sea if SHTF.
Two dozens or so of cruise missiles are not a threat for anything significant.

European ABM is also highly ship-based in areas and seas that those two Slavas cannot even reach to fire a few silver bullets from the 80s.

Europe doesn't has ABM systems.

There is same US system, designed to protect the US.

Europe doesn't has anything to protect itself.

Singular_Transform wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

There are only three Slava and only two are anywhere near NATO/Europe. One of them is basically bared to operate at open sea if SHTF.
Two dozens or so of cruise missiles are not a threat for anything significant.

European ABM is also highly ship-based in areas and seas that those two Slavas cannot even reach to fire a few silver bullets from the 80s.

Europe doesn't has ABM systems.

There is same US system, designed to protect the US.

Europe doesn't has anything to protect itself.

Europe has many ABM-capable ships and have been training/preping on this.
French and Italian are working on Aster missile with ABM component.

KiloGolf wrote:

Singular_Transform wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

There are only three Slava and only two are anywhere near NATO/Europe. One of them is basically bared to operate at open sea if SHTF.
Two dozens or so of cruise missiles are not a threat for anything significant.

European ABM is also highly ship-based in areas and seas that those two Slavas cannot even reach to fire a few silver bullets from the 80s.

Europe doesn't has ABM systems.

There is same US system, designed to protect the US.

Europe doesn't has anything to protect itself.

Europe has many ABM-capable ships and have been training/preping on this.
French and Italian are working on Aster missile with ABM component.

Europe doesn't has basic air defence network , so the ABM network is a dream max.

ABM require things like early warning radars, targeting radars and capable missiles with flexible conventional or nuclear warheads.

The US spending as much for ABM procurement as the whole EU spend for military programs/assets.

Singular_Transform wrote:Europe doesn't has basic air defence network , so the ABM network is a dream max.

ABM require things like early warning radars, targeting radars and capable missiles with flexible conventional or nuclear warheads.

The US spending as much for ABM procurement as the whole EU spend for  military programs/assets.

We do.

European Phased Adaptive Approach (EPAA)
NATO Ballistic Missile Defense Operations Center (BMDOC)

Europe is not a country and its air defence is more similar to Soviet PVO's air component. I.e. a fvckload of fighters and less focus on SAMs beyond the Patriot. Individual countries have their own thing. Greece and Cyprus are quite robust SAM-wise. Others not so much, but then again shared NATO AWACS and big numbers of interceptors compensate for aerial threats. The bonus is AEGIS, APAR, SAMPSON, EMPAR and even SMART-S/L destroyers and frigates which add a huge capability and are much more survivable platforms.

IRBM and MRBM defense is work in progress. RN's Type 45 have been tested in detecting and tracking such targets. Operational EU-made ABMs are a matter of time (Aster 30 Block 1/1NT are ready Block 2 BMD is planned) but the radar sensor capability is already there. Also US forces in Europe are de facto part of Europe's air defense.

KiloGolf wrote:

We do.

European Phased Adaptive Approach (EPAA)
NATO Ballistic Missile Defense Operations Center (BMDOC)

Europe is not a country and its air defence is more similar to Soviet PVO's air component. I.e. a fvckload of fighters and less focus on SAMs beyond the Patriot. Individual countries have their own thing. Greece and Cyprus are quite robust SAM-wise. Others not so much, but then again shared NATO AWACS and big numbers of interceptors compensate for aerial threats. The bonus is AEGIS, APAR, SAMPSON, EMPAR and even SMART-S/L destroyers and frigates which add a huge capability and are much more survivable platforms.

IRBM and MRBM defense is work in progress. RN's Type 45 have been tested in detecting and tracking such targets. Operational EU-made ABMs are a matter of time (Aster 30 Block 1/1NT are ready Block 2 BMD is planned) but the radar sensor capability is already there. Also US forces in Europe are de facto part of Europe's air defense.

Baltic sea frozen winter time, so warships are useful only to protect Europe from the US missiles, not from the Russians.
Check the maps.


And europe (germany, uk , france and so on) needs system to protect against ICBM (US,russia,chinese, indian) ,and medium range missiles.



and as I see the US-European axis will break in the not so constant future.

The US and EU doesn't sharing the same geopolitical interest any more.

Vid of Ustinov upgrade, not much actually interesting until the leaving port bit though

Another picture of the decaying rustbucket that is the pride of the Ukropi navy....




It sickens me to think of this grand old lady in the clutches of these filthy orc mongrels...

Big_Gazza wrote:Another picture of the decaying rustbucket that is the pride of the Ukropi navy....




It sickens me to think of this grand old lady in the clutches of these filthy orc mongrels...

well the time has come..

Symbolic End: Missile Cruiser 'Ukraine' Being Sold Off for Scrap Metal

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201703261051973997-ukraine-cruiser-scrapped/

Russian missile cruiser starts air defense drills in Barents Sea

At sea, the crew will practice combat teams’ cohesion and accomplish a number of shipborne drills for air and anti-submarine defense and shipboard damage control on the move and in anchorage


MOSCOW, May 12. /TASS/. The missile cruiser Marshal Ustinov has sailed to the Barents Sea for air defense and anti-submarine warfare drills, Northern Fleet spokesman Vadim Serga said on Friday.

"The missile cruiser Marshal Ustinov has entered the Barents Sea for accomplishing the second course assignment under the combat training plan. At sea, the crew will practice combat teams’ cohesion and accomplish a number of shipborne drills for air and anti-submarine defense and shipboard damage control on the move and in anchorage," the spokesman said.

The cruiser’s crew earlier made preparations for the voyage, checked weapons and the ship’s technical systems. After the drills, the Marshal Ustinov will return to Severomorsk.

The Marshal Ustinov is a Project 1164 missile cruiser. It was laid down on October 5, 1978 at the Nikolayev Shipyard and floated out on February 25, 1982. The cruiser joined the Northern Fleet on November 5, 1986.

It is 186 meters long and 20.8 meters wide and has a maximum speed of 32 knots and a crew of about 500 men. The cruiser is armed with 16 cruise missile launchers and also with air defense, artillery and anti-submarine warfare weapons.

The Russian Navy currently operates three missile cruisers of this type: the Moskva in the Black Sea Fleet, the Varyag in the Pacific Fleet and the Marshal Ustinov in the Northern Fleet.

Source: http://tass.com/defense/945586

---

First drill after the long refit

Bunch of pics of Ustinov arriving at Kronshtadt for Navy Day http://foto-i-mir.ru/1164-marshal-ustinov-170728/

Couple more Ustinov pics


Is it just me or does having the guys along the rail like that make it look much smaller?

Marshal Ustinov almost ready for active service in NF

Today the RSC "Marshal Ustinov" is carrying out the final commissioning works. As soon as they are finished, there will be tests at the training ground [sea training ranges - A.Sh.]. And the cruiser will finally become part of the forces of constant readiness of the Northern Fleet.

https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/182724.html

Huh, I thought it was supposed to be back in service Dec 2016?
Pic looks like one of those ones from when it went out on trials with snow on the front tubes but not the others.

Ustinov looking good

walle83 wrote:

Isos wrote:If they had the Ukraina ( ukrainian slava ship) which is not finished they could easily modify weapons and sensors and put P-800 instead P-1000 and S-400 instead S-300. The other ships will probably be replaced so they could be canibalized for parts for the Ukraina and keep this one for another 20 years. But I don't think they will.

Ukrainya has been sitting at the docks for over two decads without any work. It would take years to ger her in shape and it would cost a very large sume of money. No russia would be better of building new frigates och corvettes for those cash.

There were actully plans that Russia would buy the cruiser from Ukraine a few years back, but after inspecting the ship they would not buy it, even for a very low cost. I think that tells us how bad condition that ship relly is.

Cruiser "Ukraina" has already turn to something as a hulk beyond repair.

Moskva parked in Sevastopol, decision pending wether to upgrade of scrap her (35 years old currently) and no money for upgrade it seems

http://www.militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=485165

A shame
If Ustinov came out Kalibrised, with upgraded S-300 & Pantsir-M (at least provision for) I'd definitely want them to go ahead with Moskva.
But yeah 35yr old ship goes in to refit for 5yrs like Ustinov, comes out without big upgrades, doesn't seem particularly worth it.
Probably makes more sense to spend the $ on new ships, also BSF is running a pretty high tempo with Syria ops.

Edit: apparently this is the current state

It spent some time in drydock near immediately after arriving back to Sevastopol after covering the initial Syria deployment, I'm guessing they didn't finish repainting after patching/repairs done then?
Or there is actually still work ongoing.

hoom wrote:A shame
If Ustinov came out Kalibrised, with upgraded S-300 & Pantsir-M (at least provision for) I'd definitely want them to go ahead with Moskva.
But yeah 35yr old ship goes in to refit for 5yrs like Ustinov, comes out without big upgrades, doesn't seem particularly worth it.
Probably makes more sense to spend the $ on new ships, also BSF is running a pretty high tempo with Syria ops.

Edit: apparently this is the current state

http://2018.f.a0z.ru/07/04-6436913-dsc-4056.jpg?title=DSC_4056.JPG

It spent some time in drydock near immediately after arriving back to Sevastopol after covering the initial Syria deployment, I'm guessing they didn't finish repainting after patching/repairs done then?
Or there is actually still work ongoing.

I forgot how old these things are.

35 years plus 5 in overhaul, that's 4 decades at best. And pricetag is probably massive pain in the ass for something of this size.

Looks like it's time to retire the old girl.

At least she had one last rodeo in Syria before punching out.

Damn... she reminds me of the Ukraina.... well, not that bad, but its sad to see her at the end of the line.