Syrian Civil War: News #10

GarryB wrote:

Here you go again embarrassing yourself with stupidity, please, do explain to me why you want to fire $80k Javelin missiles at Toyota pickups that cost $20-40k.....

Or more accurately why fire an $80K Javelin missile when you can do the same job with an $8K Metis-M... or old surplus Konkurs...

KiloGolf wrote:

GarryB wrote:

Here you go again embarrassing yourself with stupidity, please, do explain to me why you want to fire $80k Javelin missiles at Toyota pickups that cost $20-40k.....

Or more accurately why fire an $80K Javelin missile when you can do the same job with an $8K Metis-M... or old surplus Konkurs...

The cost of a deployed, trained and experienced SOF operator, officer or advisor is much higher than a Javelin (or two).
Javelin is a good insurance policy for whoever can field it. Metis or Konkurs cannot do the same job.

JohninMK wrote:Not seen this map maker before

KoTeMoRe wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

GarryB wrote:

Here you go again embarrassing yourself with stupidity, please, do explain to me why you want to fire $80k Javelin missiles at Toyota pickups that cost $20-40k.....

Or more accurately why fire an $80K Javelin missile when you can do the same job with an $8K Metis-M... or old surplus Konkurs...

The cost of a deployed, trained and experienced SOF operator, officer or advisor is much higher than a Javelin (or two).
Javelin is a good insurance policy for whoever can field it. Metis or Konkurs cannot do the same job.

Agan Javelin is not foolproof and really shines at that kind of situation when the FF mode just takes out the human factor of the equation. But as I said we've seen how when these things hit they simply don't wait for you to have a lock on the target or allow you to be in a safe position.

That svbied the French smacked would have been folded equally by normal defensive preparations. Defensive charges would have done the same thing on that stuff vehicle, a kill alley made out of mines would have done the same. Without needed to use Half the GDP of Vanuatu for a company attacking the position.

calm wrote:

The cost of a deployed, trained and experienced SOF operator, officer or advisor is much higher than a Javelin (or two).
Javelin is a good insurance policy for whoever can field it. Metis or Konkurs cannot do the same job.

Hence the term insurance policy. Same way the French employed it, MILAN missed, Javelin finished it. The expensive operators are still alive.

Mindstorm wrote:If any this engagement just confirm all what said previously about FGM-148.

It is very difficult to image a weapon system worsely conceived.

KiloGolf wrote:It's amazing to witness the prudent use of a very capable, one of a kind ATGM that saved some important lives on-camera and yet there's always people dismissing the result and doctrine. One or more SOF operators are worth many times more than the missile and system combined. This whole bean counting doesn't always work in war.

UK is sponsoring "independent Syrian media", which then report on the alleged Russian space forces bombed hospitals, said the official representative of the defense Ministry major General Igor Konashenkov, based on data from the official report of the British government.

When allegations of "bombed" hospitals and mobile clinics in Syria, Western politicians refer not to reliable information, and on the White helmets or the local anonymous "journalists" ("activists"), said Konashenkov, reports TASS.


"In this regard drew the attention of the official report of the British government "non-humanitarian aid the UK in Syria in 2012-2015". The document explicitly States that "White helmets" received from the British government of 15 million pounds. But another 5.3 million pounds received some "media", – said Konashenkov.
The official representative of the Russian Ministry noted that the document also stated: "UK-Funded projects aimed at creation of a network of independent media outlets across Syria. Their job is to report to Facebook and Twitter about the chemical attacks of the regime forces in ghouta, and promptly to supply information from local residents and the "White helmets".

"In Russia, this is called: "the cuckoo rooster praises for what he praises the cuckoo." But Admiral John Kirby (state Department spokesman), it seems, does not know about this", he said.

Earlier Konashenkov also said that speculation Kirby about "bombing hospitals" in Syria are information error.

On Wednesday, Kirby said that the US state Department has no evidence of alleged Russian attacks on military targets in Syria, the Agency simply accepts on faith the statements of certain "humanitarian organizations".

Tuesday Konashenkov denied approval of the media about the alleged bombing "for the third day of the hospital" in Aleppo. He also recalled that the aircraft of Russian air force and Syrian air force for 28 days did not cause any strikes on Aleppo.

The U.S. state Department spokesman Elizabeth Trudeau during the media briefing said that the latest data supposedly indicate beats Russia in five hospitals and one mobile hospital.

Konashenkov said in response that the state Department is probably already "tired of lying", but continues to repeat the rumors about the "bombed hospitals" in Syria, and called such accusations "shameless lie."

KiloGolf wrote:It's amazing to witness the prudent use of a very capable, one of a kind ATGM that saved some important lives on-camera and yet there's always people dismissing the result and doctrine. One or more SOF operators are worth many times more than the missile and system combined. This whole bean counting doesn't always work in war.

There's a lesson learnt from the French video, expensive, fire and forget ATGMs have their niche position in today's asymmetric wars. Carefully fielding them in areas where embedded personnel are located is smart. Russians should take notes, given their recent experience in Raqqa against SVBIEDs.

OminousSpudd wrote:Development and production costs outweigh the benefits. You're not applying basic economic principles to the system. How many of these videos exist showing a successful use of a Javelin against its specifically designed for targets? Namely being armour?
Is it effective with SOF? Of course, just like the majority of weapons on the planet are effective with SOF.

To make the production of the system worthwhile a certain amount have to be produced, to justify this there has to be demand, now, SOF on their own aren't going to fork that bill, so you then must turn to the primary branches, problem is, the Army & Marines don't have the specialised training to operate the system effectively in the first place so now you have a bunch of grunts firing off your stockpile of expensive missiles at the walls of buildings. It's nice in theory Kilo, but the system has been around for a good chunk of the 21st century... and the Russians haven't taken notes, because they have better, cheaper systems that do the same job.

This isn't even going into the fact that the missile is well documented as not performing how it should.

MAP | #IDLIB | THE FORGOTTEN FU'AH AND KAFRAYA POCKET - Besieged since March 2015, shia pocket is hold by pro-#Assad local militias.

GarryB wrote:

Hence the term insurance policy. Same way the French employed it, MILAN missed, Javelin finished it. The expensive operators are still alive.

I am surprised Milan missed... would be interesting to find out more about what actually happened...

Of course missiles can miss and when the target is not as straight forward as a car in motion the Javelin is actually inferior to Metis-M1.

par far wrote:"SYRIAN ARMY KILLS SEVERAL DOZENS OF ISIS TERRORISTS IN DEIR EZ-ZOR."


https://southfront.org/syrian-army-kills-several-dozens-of-isis-terrorists-in-deir-ez-zor/