Syrian War: News #12

I wonder if ones perception of time slows down as one watches one of these parachutes drop gracefully through the sky right above you?

Whether the 'perhaps joining up wasn't the best decision I made' thought has time to progress through ones mind before it is vaporised.

Then there are the guys on the other side of the valley doing the filming. There must be a thought in the back of their mind that the next stick of 4 'normal' bombs, as per the second video, might include them.

Great stuff, may the Syrian Express keep delivering the goodies.

Res Publica‏ @_paulo34 4h4 hours ago

NOW! Turkey Backed Rebels attacking SDF on several fronts, heavy clashes ongoing in Şehba Dam, Semûqa, Zewyan, Hasiya, Om Hosh & Qastal Jend

Is there any estimate on HTS losses in the Hama offensive?

Also can we expect the SAA advance to speed up?

One thing that always grinds my gears is that there is constant news of the moderate headchoppers splintering and infighting, yet each time after that they mmake even bigger offensives and the SAA advance never speeds up. I understand saudi and turkish backing yada yada, but surely the constant loss of militants, bombings and casaulties from infighting should make the "FSA" front lines disorganized and at least have manpower shortages on the tactical level?


Could it be possible for the Syrian airforce to bomb and murder Jordanian and Saudi suppliers at the Syrian border or oustide of it? Surely there must be some sort of middle man on the border that could eat some barrel bombs?

PapaDragon wrote:
How interesting. So this would meant that Turkey has officially went off the reservation?

Probably to put more pressure for the U.S to "come home". Diverting the attention of the american proxies only makes the Raqqa dream more costly for both the SDF and the U.S. I don't think it'll be of any significance in the end but as long as there is a chance it's a possibility.

So many ifs IF Turkey pulls out a major offensive against the Kurds. Loving the strategic side for Assad/Russia. There is no faction that excuses american boots on the ground like the Kurds.

Mindstorm wrote: some time ago i had already pointed out to the very large mean time between missile launch (one of the most critical features for cruise missiles, having deep effect on salvo cohesion and concentration).

Seriously ??? What has a large mean time between missile launch got to do with success or failure?

In this case the US Navy was fully aware of the fact that the adversary cannot strike their ships with long range missiles or even aircraft.

If the adversary did have such capabilities the mean time between launch of the Tomahawks would have been a lot less.

RTN wrote:

Mindstorm wrote: some time ago i had already pointed out to the very large mean time between missile launch (one of the most critical features for cruise missiles, having deep effect on salvo cohesion and concentration).

Seriously ??? What has a large mean time between missile launch got to do with success or failure?

In this case the US Navy was fully aware of the fact that the adversary cannot strike their ships with long range missiles or even aircraft.

If the adversary  did have such capabilities the mean time between launch of the Tomahawks would have been a lot less.

I read somewhere that the Tomahawks were landing over a two hour period. If correct and assuming both ships launched 30, that's a one every four minutes or so launch rate. Maybe they were trying to 'double tap' some areas of the airfield.

RTN wrote:Seriously ??? What has a large mean time between missile launch got to do with success or failure?

It has anything to do with successful employment against a strong opponent.

That is actually an huge technical problem for this kind of military products that has caused that TLAM Block IV attack salvo toward Al-Shayrat AB (or, for better say, the fraction part of the salvo that actually managed to reach the targeted air base) to last about half an hour.

With a similar salvo density you are uncapable to cause problems even to '80 years air defense systems, let alone up-to-date specimens.

A salvo of 60 Калибр-НК would have converged at the same air base in less than 10 minutes, mostly just in virtue of their much lower mean time between missile delivery and that would greatly complicate air defense missions , in particular negating capability for second of third attempt to engage a cruise missile before to next one would arrive.

Mindstorm wrote:


It has anything to do with successful employment against a strong opponent.

That is actually an huge technical problem for this kind of military products that has caused that TLAM Block IV attack salvo toward Al-Shayrat AB (or, for better say, the fraction part of the salvo that actually managed to reach the targeted air base) to last about half an hour.

I don't quite understand the substance of this technical problem. You have vertical launch cells - surely you should just be able to queue them as rapidly or slowly as you like. Admittedly there is a flame trench thing which many missiles share:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/US_Navy_090825-N-1522S-020_A_Tactical_Tomahawk_Cruise_Missile_launches_from_the_forward_missile_deck_aboard_the_guided-missile_destroyer_USS_Farragut_%28DDG_99%29_during_a_training_exercise.jpg/800px-thumbnail.jpg

But that should only rule out simultaneous launch, not launching one missile right after the other leaves. Unless the flame trench thing will get too hot if you launch too frequently, I suppose. Looking at it that doesn't seem like an unreasonable concern, it seems like a design that gives the surrounding cells a nice toasting.

Here's a video of a USN ship launching two missiles in quick succession:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzM-lTr-xW8#t=41s

I suppose that proves nothing about sustained salvo speed, though.

A video from USS Stout in 2011 striking Libya shows similar salvo speed to the Porter striking Syria: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLJOGrI6uo8

Are there any images or videos that display Russian VLS flame trench designs?

Mindstorm wrote:
It has anything to do with successful employment against a strong opponent.

That is actually an huge technical problem for this kind of military products that has caused that TLAM Block IV attack salvo toward Al-Shayrat AB (or, for better say, the fraction part of the salvo that actually managed to reach the targeted air base) to last about half an hour.  

In my OP itself I've explained to you that we are NOT dealing with a strong opponent that has a credible air defense network. We could have shot 58 missiles in 5 mins, we could have shot 58 missiles in 58 days, it makes no difference. The adversary cannot attack us.

Also, what kind of  technical problem do you see in the Tomahawk missile?  Even if I accept your argument about the mean time ( which is a flawed argument in any case) it still does not prove that the Tomahawk suffers from serious technical problems.

Mindstorm wrote:A salvo of 60  Калибр-НК would have converged at the same air base in less than 10 minutes, mostly just in virtue of their much lower mean time between missile delivery and that would greatly complicate air defense missions , in particular negating capability for second of third attempt to engage a cruise missile before to next one would arrive.

Maybe. If you are fighting against a mediocre opponent like Assad what you said may well be true. But for my sake & your own do not quote those offenders in Russia who tell you that you can fire a salvo of cruise missiles against the US Navy & every missile is going to hit the target.

JohninMK wrote:
I read somewhere that the Tomahawks were landing over a two hour period. If correct and assuming both ships launched 30, that's a one every four minutes or so launch rate. Maybe they were trying to 'double tap' some areas of the airfield.

I suspect you read that in some Russian website. Russian media is as corrupt as compromised as Western media so read whatever you want but don't believe them.

The Russian MoD can't even label their own system accurately on social media . They uploaded images of S-300PS and labelled it as S 400.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1909366939306053&id=1492252324350852

No wonder they can't accurately account for TLAM hits in Syria

Zastel wrote:I don't quite understand the substance of this technical problem.

Achieve a lower mean time between delivery for naval launched long range cruise missile missiles is a very complex problem involving not only traditional rocketry problem linked to aerodynamic layout, stage impulse engineering and cell conceivement but also specific ,less intuitive, problems such as interaction with the buyoancy and stability of the same ship -or submarine- delivering platform in those critical seconds.

Obviously those problem grow exponentially at the reduction of the ship mass (and that spell volume on the achievement of the installation of пр. 21631

Zastel wrote:Here's a video of a USN ship launching two missiles in quick succession:

I don't see any quick launch of two TLAM here......unless ,in perfect typical "US straight-face-bollock" style, someone do not attempt to sell the lauch of two standard missiles as TLAM launchs ,not that this would surprise me by now ...........

There are reports that Trump promised Erdgoan that US will support them against PKK.

https://southfront.org/trump-told-erdogan-united-states-to-cooperate-with-turkey-in-fight-against-pkk-cnn-turk/


https://southfront.org/syrian-war-report-april-18-2017-turkish-kurdish-tensions-increase-in-northern-aleppo/

par far wrote:There are reports that Trump promised Erdgoan that US will support them against PKK.

https://southfront.org/trump-told-erdogan-united-states-to-cooperate-with-turkey-in-fight-against-pkk-cnn-turk/


https://southfront.org/syrian-war-report-april-18-2017-turkish-kurdish-tensions-increase-in-northern-aleppo/

Yeah, right, and watch the SDF turn round and go home. Leaving who to die taking over non Kurdish Raqqa?

Please, can someone explain why the pockets in Ghouta and Homs hold for so long when they're under siege? Why hasn't attrition and lack of supplies destroyed them?

Genius timing in the embedded video. Its an oldie but goldie. The Saudi rebel rouser is naturally apparently still alive.

https://twitter.com/Souria4Syrians/status/854426472219627520

Mindstorm wrote:Achieve a lower mean time between delivery for naval launched long range cruise missile missiles is a very complex problem involving not only traditional rocketry problem linked to aerodynamic layout, stage impulse engineering and cell conceivement but also specific ,less intuitive, problems such as interaction with the buyoancy and stability of the same ship -or submarine- delivering platform in those critical seconds.

Obviously those problem grow exponentially at the reduction of the ship mass (and that spell volume on the achievement of the installation of  пр. 21631  

The features that you have identified are always addressed by most shipbuilders & certainly by US shipbuilders.

Can you prove that the Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyer design does not address those features?

Two years ago when Russia fired Kalibr-NK into Syria, 4 of them landed in Iran. Does this prove that the above mentioned features identified by you were absent in the  Gepard-class frigate that fired these missiles.

SAA lost T-72 "adra" and T-72 "Shafra" in Qaboun. But manage to free 34 prisoners.







Syrian Army releases 34 captured soldiers after attacking rebel HQ in Alqaboun district Northeast Damascus
They are very lucky. Same rebels have captured two soldiers 2 days ago, they have been beheaded them immediately.




One captured alive
the guard of the field jail SAA soldiers were freed from in Qabun was also captured during the special operation
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9siaN5UAAAGROe.jpg

Some SAA improvisation

Kafr Zita north of Al-Lataminah

NEW MAP showing areas back under #SAA control after recent truce deal.Some militants went to #Idlib,many stayed and accepted reconciliation.

calm wrote:Al-Lataminah...

Noticed that this munition usually detonates at or slightly above the target ground, but sometimes there's a substantial pause between the landing and detonation. Is it set to burrow into the ground in those instances? Since it's parachute-bourne, I wouldn't think it would have sufficient velocity to do that, but I have no idea.

PapaDragon wrote:
We see Syrian Su-22 but I am pretty sure these bombs are delivered by VKS.

I also noticed that BETAB-500s always seem to come in 2 in 1 package....

Also a mix of with and without parachutes and there seems to be a couple of sizes of parachutes.

I hope that their targetting info is good, would hate for all that to be just wanton destruction.