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Log inSounds like similar to the Kh-22 -> Kh-32 upgrade with a big speed increase due to (steeper?) terminal dive from higher altitude.
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P-800 Oniks and BrahMos
hoom- Posts : 2352
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LMFS- Posts : 5162
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Not even confirmed that this improvement is applicable to the Onyx, but I think it is likely. I suppose the propulsion would be changed to allow higher speeds in level flight, why do you see it related specifically to the terminal dive's angle?hoom wrote:Sounds like similar to the Kh-22 -> Kh-32 upgrade with a big speed increase due to (steeper?) terminal dive from higher altitude.
GarryB- Posts : 40541
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Sounds like similar to the Kh-22 -> Kh-32 upgrade with a big speed increase due to (steeper?) terminal dive from higher altitude.
The speed increase is not related to terminal dive speed.
Standard speed for the Kh-22M is supposed to be mach 3.2, but its dive on target speed is supposed to be mach 4.1 or so.
Standard speed for Kh-32 is mach 4.5 but there is no information regarding its dive speed.
The Kh-22M was offered to european companies for testing high speed and its stated test speed was mach 4.5, so that might be what it was capable of with warhead and radar and guidance systems removed, or they might have developed better propulsion then that was later used in the Kh-32.
dino00- Posts : 1677
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- Post n°129
The range of the cruise missile "Brahmos" will bring up to 500 kilometers
dino00 Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:30 am
The range of the cruise missile "Brahmos" will bring up to 500 kilometers
MOSCOW, Apr 8 - RIA News. The range of the Bramos cruise missile now exceeds 400 kilometers, the task is to bring it up to 500, the co-director of the Bramos company from the Russian side, Alexander Maksichev, told RIA Novosti.
"We will come to hypersound by increasing the range, we have already confirmed 400 kilometers, in order to increase the range to 500, we need to increase the speed. Now the rocket flies at a speed of 2.8 mach Through modernization we will reach the speed of hypersound, this is more than 4.5 mach "- said Maxichev.
https://ria.ru/20190408/1552465122.html
MOSCOW, Apr 8 - RIA News. The range of the Bramos cruise missile now exceeds 400 kilometers, the task is to bring it up to 500, the co-director of the Bramos company from the Russian side, Alexander Maksichev, told RIA Novosti.
"We will come to hypersound by increasing the range, we have already confirmed 400 kilometers, in order to increase the range to 500, we need to increase the speed. Now the rocket flies at a speed of 2.8 mach Through modernization we will reach the speed of hypersound, this is more than 4.5 mach "- said Maxichev.
https://ria.ru/20190408/1552465122.html
Austin- Posts : 7617
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It has been known for some time , Existing Ramjet is being improved and with a modified fuel will give it a speed of Mach 4.5 plus
This is different from Scramjet BRahmos which is Zircon variant
This is different from Scramjet BRahmos which is Zircon variant
dino00- Posts : 1677
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Austin wrote:It has been known for some time , Existing Ramjet is being improved and with a modified fuel will give it a speed of Mach 4.5 plus
This is different from Scramjet BRahmos which is Zircon variant
Respect for Índia and everything but i hope they "only" get the 4.5 BrahMos.
dino00- Posts : 1677
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What damage "Onyx" can cause the enemy ship?
The missile is arranged in such a way that when it hits a potential large enemy ship of any modern enemy, it will completely destroy it or sink it. It will not be able to sink an aircraft carrier, but the Onyx will be able to cause significant damage to such a ship. And the aircraft carrier team will fight not for the fulfillment of their combat mission, but for the viability of the ship
Anatoly Svintsov, Deputy General Director of the military industrial complex NPO Mashinostroyenia interview
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/20194121058-5j6x3.html
The missile is arranged in such a way that when it hits a potential large enemy ship of any modern enemy, it will completely destroy it or sink it. It will not be able to sink an aircraft carrier, but the Onyx will be able to cause significant damage to such a ship. And the aircraft carrier team will fight not for the fulfillment of their combat mission, but for the viability of the ship
Anatoly Svintsov, Deputy General Director of the military industrial complex NPO Mashinostroyenia interview
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/opk/content/20194121058-5j6x3.html
GarryB- Posts : 40541
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I suspect it really depends on the angle it hits... if it hits coming in sideways and penetrates across the width of the ship its damage might be limited and the ship might be able to limp home... but hitting it end on and penetrating down the length of the ship... that is going to do some serious damage even if the warhead does not explode and we have no reason to think it wont...
LMFS- Posts : 5162
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I suspect the missile indeed knows where and how to hit for maximum damage:GarryB wrote:I suspect it really depends on the angle it hits... if it hits coming in sideways and penetrates across the width of the ship its damage might be limited and the ship might be able to limp home... but hitting it end on and penetrating down the length of the ship... that is going to do some serious damage even if the warhead does not explode and we have no reason to think it wont...
A carrier is a huge and very reinforced vessel, but to put out such a fire would leave the crew with no appetite for much fighting afterwards
Thanks for the interview dino00!
dino00- Posts : 1677
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Russia to upgrade operational cruise missiles to hypersonic weapons
More:
http://tass.com/defense/1060357
More:
http://tass.com/defense/1060357
Isos
Isos- Posts : 11602
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LMFS wrote:
A carrier is a huge and very reinforced vessel, but to put out such a fire would leave the crew with no appetite for much fighting afterwards
Your video show s-400 and moskit missiles if I'm not wrong. But it is impressive how it goes through the ship from the front to the end so easily.
Arrow- Posts : 3486
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P-800 use ramjet engine. How is possible to increase hypersonic speed ?
GarryB- Posts : 40541
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Your video show s-400 and moskit missiles if I'm not wrong. But it is impressive how it goes through the ship from the front to the end so easily.
The first part of the video is the land based model seems to be the S-400 SAMs... you can tell because the proper Onyx/Yakhont are normally launched up into the air and then stop and rockets fire to roll them over in the direction of the target and then the nose cap pops off and the main rocket fires and it accelerates away... the nose cap is the cover for the ramjet engine the Onyx uses... when the main rocket burns out the ramjet takes over.
The impact with the boat shows two direct hits on the target and each weapon coming at slightly different angle with one seeming to blow up on each side of the ship after passing through most of it from the other end.
P-800 use ramjet engine. How is possible to increase hypersonic speed ?
It has already been mentioned that the new high energy fuel for Zircon can be used in the Onyx to increase performance.
Onyx is limited by its ramjet engine so top speed will be mach 4-5 or so, while Zircons scramjet has much higher speed potential and gets to mach 10 with the same fuel...
Arrow- Posts : 3486
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What kind of fuel can it be?
hoom- Posts : 2352
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It was S-300 in the East from what I read, they shot down some missiles sent towards shore.
I've been trying to figure out what ship that actually was that got hit, seems to be actually a lot smaller than it at first seems.
With its proportions it looks like a big car carrier or something.
But I think its actually quite little, some form of river barge probably.
I've been trying to figure out what ship that actually was that got hit, seems to be actually a lot smaller than it at first seems.
With its proportions it looks like a big car carrier or something.
But I think its actually quite little, some form of river barge probably.
Isos- Posts : 11602
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IMO it's a practice target that simulate modern ship's armor, similar to the ones you can see on kh-35 tests.
A simple screenshot shows that the missiles looks like a moskit. And the target is something like 50 or 60m long compare to the missile's size.
It also shows the wake of the missile on the water. Looks like it is touching it a little bit. Must be flying at less than 1m to hit the waterline of the ship. The explosion occurs deep in the ship and water pops in where the missile hit.. 2 ways of destroying a ship at once : fire and water at the same time. Very hard to save the ship.
A simple screenshot shows that the missiles looks like a moskit. And the target is something like 50 or 60m long compare to the missile's size.
It also shows the wake of the missile on the water. Looks like it is touching it a little bit. Must be flying at less than 1m to hit the waterline of the ship. The explosion occurs deep in the ship and water pops in where the missile hit.. 2 ways of destroying a ship at once : fire and water at the same time. Very hard to save the ship.
chicken- Posts : 110
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Exercise is Vostok 2014. First missile is Vulkan from Slava cruiser of the Pacific fleet. It dives to the water line. Another video shows a smaller target missed by 1 Vulkan and hit by shrapnel from another Vulkan that dived too early. Second missile is a Moskit from a Sovremenny destroyer.
GunshipDemocracy- Posts : 6168
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good news lads:
Vulcan is almost 2x heavier then Onix and has the same top speed. Ths much more kinetic energy.
The speed of cruise missiles in service in Russia will be brought to hypersonic
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/6478037
Also, work is underway to achieve the universality of the rocket in terms of its goals, said the general director of NPO Mashinostroeniya, Alexander Leonov
MOSCOW, May 28th. / Tass /. The existing Russian supersonic cruise missiles will be improved by increasing their range and bringing the speed to hypersonic. This was announced in an interview with TASS by the general director, the general designer of NPO Mashinostroyenia (part of the Tactical Missile Arms Corporation) Alexander Leonov.
"The general trend in the direction of improving cruise missiles is an increase in speed to hypersound, an increase in the range of action <...> In this direction we are moving," he said, answering a question about the ways to improve this type of weapon, in particular, about possible changes in rocket "Onyx".
He added that work is also being done to achieve "the universality of the rocket, both in terms of its goals and the launch pad used."
The NPO Mashinostroeniya has developed the Onyx supersonic anti-ship missile, which, along with the Caliber missiles, is launched from universal firing systems and can be used from such carriers as Project 22350 frigates and Project 885 submarines (Ash). The maximum speed of the rocket at an altitude of more than 2.5 times the speed of sound, and the range reaches 600 km.
Also, NPO Mashinostroeniya is the leading developer of the newest Russian hypersonic Zircon rocket.
chicken wrote:Exercise is Vostok 2014. First missile is Vulkan from Slava cruiser of the Pacific fleet. It dives to the water line. Another video shows a smaller target missed by 1 Vulkan and hit by shrapnel from another Vulkan that dived too early. Second missile is a Moskit from a Sovremenny destroyer.
Vulcan is almost 2x heavier then Onix and has the same top speed. Ths much more kinetic energy.
GarryB- Posts : 40541
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My understanding is that the Granit and Vulkan are supposed to hit the water about 20m before the ship so the impact point is underwater to maximise damage...
Now that they are using UAVs to video their exercises, hopefully they will become more active in filming targets and releasing the footage...
Now that they are using UAVs to video their exercises, hopefully they will become more active in filming targets and releasing the footage...
chicken- Posts : 110
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Longer video that shows launch platforms and a Moskit on terminal flight.
Vulkan misses
Granit hit from the same exercise. Launched from an Oscar. Note the small wake.
Vulkan misses
Granit hit from the same exercise. Launched from an Oscar. Note the small wake.
Isos- Posts : 11602
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Vulkan is disapointing. The first is a miss, probably there were some sort of jamming, and the second one seems to explode into water and do far less damage than moskit and Granit.
They are also supposed to come into salvos. The time btw the two missiles is exactly 20 seconds which is huge.
The two moskit did better and hit at the same time.
They should upgrade slavas with UKSK. That would be very easy to do with its external launchers. They wouldn't need to cut the ship like they do for kirovs.
They are also supposed to come into salvos. The time btw the two missiles is exactly 20 seconds which is huge.
The two moskit did better and hit at the same time.
They should upgrade slavas with UKSK. That would be very easy to do with its external launchers. They wouldn't need to cut the ship like they do for kirovs.
chicken- Posts : 110
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There was no 2 Moskits. As said before, it was a Vulkan and a Moskit. And there was no jamming, it was target practice.
Isos- Posts : 11602
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chicken wrote:There was no 2 Moskits. As said before, it was a Vulkan and a Moskit. And there was no jamming, it was target practice.
They both look like moskit on the first video. Do you have a proof that it is a vulkan and a moskit or is it only your opinion ?
On the second video both missiles dive into water so they are both Vulkan. There could have been some jamming equipment on the target. Russian use always jamming against their forces during exercices. The first one misses by some tens of meters while the second one seems to dive too early. It can be explained by a jammer that affects missiles onboard radar to calculate distances. That's typically how DRFM jammers works. And it seems to work on Vulkan.
Firebird- Posts : 1811
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dino00 wrote:Austin wrote:It has been known for some time , Existing Ramjet is being improved and with a modified fuel will give it a speed of Mach 4.5 plus
This is different from Scramjet BRahmos which is Zircon variant
Respect for Índia and everything but i hope they "only" get the 4.5 BrahMos.
I can't really believe that India is enjoying tech sharing with Russia on this.
Ofcourse Modi and co might want to convey that to their own population to justify the expense.
But frankly I don't believe Russia will hand over anything of note.
There's even a suggestion India might turn to the US in coming years eg over 15/20 years.
I think a Ru-India alliance can be terrific. But ultimately Russia is about military (and other) tech. India is about economic growth in a highly populous emerging market.
chicken- Posts : 110
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Isos wrote:chicken wrote:There was no 2 Moskits. As said before, it was a Vulkan and a Moskit. And there was no jamming, it was target practice.
They both look like moskit on the first video. Do you have a proof that it is a vulkan and a moskit or is it only your opinion ?
On the second video both missiles dive into water so they are both Vulkan. There could have been some jamming equipment on the target. Russian use always jamming against their forces during exercices. The first one misses by some tens of meters while the second one seems to dive too early. It can be explained by a jammer that affects missiles onboard radar to calculate distances. That's typically how DRFM jammers works. And it seems to work on Vulkan.
Missile launch at 01:05 of the video clearly shows a Slava deck. The wake made by the missiles on two of the videos is consistent with Bazalt/ Vulkan capabilities of diving towards the waterline and I do not have sources indicating Moskit is capable of diving towards the waterline. The twower livejournal page indicated on the video also said it was Vulkan and Moskit although the page was pruned.
The coordinated strike was a rehearsed event.
http://7fbtk.blogspot.com/2014/08/russias-secret-naval-exercise.html?m=1
A source or citation on Russians using jamming on anti ship missile exercises would be appreciated. I've never read about them use jamming equipment for anti ship trainings.