S-300/400 ORBAT. Battalions and Regiments

As I said, "If we could agree but alas"

On the other hand agree re Rambo. I count too but not like him... wow! The man is a walking Satellite, I can't tell the difference between some models but he never is in doubt.

amigo!

franco wrote:As I said, "If we could agree but alas"  

On the other hand agree re Rambo. I count too but not like him... wow! The man is a walking Satellite, I can't tell the difference between some models but he never is in doubt.

 amigo!

Well Im not interested in counting as while interesting can never represent the full picture of the Russian PVO and for that reason Im more interested in the way Russian PVO design works on which I have spend considerable time. Anyway any type of info is wellcomed.

JohninMK wrote:Is it possible that part of the confusion on what is where and how many of this and that per unit is intentional and exactly what the Russian MoD wants? Making the job of Western Intelligence in their evaluation of the SAM risk more complex.

If so a sterling job is being done here, I am more confused now than 20 posts ago.

No it can. There are other ways to confuse foreign intelligence.

What is confusing you?


- Well previous it was reported that 5 S-400 regimental sets will enter RF. Now it seems to be 4 S-400 regimental sets with the latest one being

confirmed as delivered for 2016 and 3 others during the year.

I gues one missing for up to 5 will go somewhere else

FSI Russia before the end of the year will receive three sets of regimental S-400

In 2016, the regiment set SAM S-400 "Triumph" has entered into service one of the compounds videoconferencing Russian missile defense stationed in the Moscow region.
"Three sets of regimental S-400" Triumph "in 2016 entered service connections air defense military districts. In the future S-400 should form the basis of anti-aircraft missile regiments videoconferencing," - said in a statement.

JohninMK wrote:Is it possible that part of the confusion on what is where and how many of this and that per unit is intentional and exactly what the Russian MoD wants? Making the job of Western Intelligence in their evaluation of the SAM risk more complex.

If so a sterling job is being done here, I am more confused now than 20 posts ago.

Probably a combo of
- translations
- media not understanding military terminology and or just plain getting them mixed up
- military not wanting to say more then absolutely necessary
- some misinformation for sure

EDIT: the Russian military is also more flexible in it's Table of Organization & Equipment then the West is. In example all Patriot SAM battalions would be exactly the same, but I see at least 4 different ones in the S-300/400 battalions. There are separate parts or sub-units that are similar, but the end unit can vary.

i made this thread as more specialized in numbers, sites and regiment/battalion composition of TELs and firing units.
I have noticed that issues above have special interest in a lot of members and so they can look here for that specific info and the same discussion will not repeated in the general S-400/S-500 thread or anywhere else

Lets keep it for these issues only and not polluted it with other subject about s-300/400/500 (exercises, integration, news, countering etc)

If you dont like it as an idea i will put back the selected posts. Thanks!

Thus, since the beginning of serial deliveries of S-400 (40R6), to the Air Force and Air Defence of Russia were delivered 16 regimental sets of system (a total of 33 divisions) - one in 2011, two in 2012 and 2013, three in 2014 and 2015 and five in 2016.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2293653.html

33 divisons in total x?? Firing units (TELs)=so how many ?? TELs till now [if we can agree that firing unit is TEL ]

George1 wrote:

Thus, since the beginning of serial deliveries of S-400 (40R6), to the Air Force and Air Defence of Russia were delivered 16 regimental sets of system (a total of 33 divisions) - one in 2011, two in 2012 and 2013, three in 2014 and 2015 and five in 2016.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2293653.html

33 divisons in total x?? Firing units (TELs)=so how many ?? TELs till now [if we can agree that firing unit is TEL ]

Our PMU1 guys have come up with the term "fire control unit" (Russians call it ADMC, air defense missile complex - go figure    ) and I'm pretty positive it comprises 5P85TE TELs (4 in our case), one 30N6E1 'Flap Lid' and one 76N6E 'Clam Shell' (which I'm not sure is near the firing unit or get positioned somewhere else, probably the second, guess it depends on the ground features and all). And then we got like one "Command and Control Unit" which basically the Regiment-level component with a 64N6E 'Big Bird' and a 54K6E1 Self Propelled Command Post. I think our Russians friends have now done away with the Clam shell (the one on the mast) and have some new kit on their PMU3, it was seen in Syria too. Ukraine also have their own 'Tin Shield' which Vietnam bought for their PMU2.

Hope it clarifies the whole firing unit thingy

PS. I think Russian regiments have each 4 ADMCs (battalions) of ~4 TEL each (not 100% on this). So that would be over 500 TELs?! Bloody hell.

George1 wrote:

Thus, since the beginning of serial deliveries of S-400 (40R6), to the Air Force and Air Defence of Russia were delivered 16 regimental sets of system (a total of 33 divisions) - one in 2011, two in 2012 and 2013, three in 2014 and 2015 and five in 2016.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2293653.html

33 divisons in total x?? Firing units (TELs)=so how many ?? TELs till now [if we can agree that firing unit is TEL ]

99 to 264 TELS but a good question

It appears that when a S.400 regiment is formed, it is not complete and starts out with the TAR, C3 plus 6-8 TEL's. Have noticed most of the new 400 regiments have only 6 TEL's as opposed to the 8 TEL's normally found in a 300PM battalion. Also noticed when the 400 regiment formed in Novosibirsk, the first SAT images showed the 6 S.400 TEL's split between the two battalion locations along with the old 300PS TEL's still active. So not a clue how many are actually active yet.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:S-400, Triumf

A "standard" S-400, Triumf battalion [дивизион (divizion), not дивизия (diviziya, division)] includes up to 6 batteries (батарея, batareya), each comprising up to 12 four-missile (large missiles) launchers.

Yeah well now it's more confusing
Frickin S-300 sub-unit organization is so complicated.

George1 wrote:Russia's top arms manufacturer hands over five S-400 regiments to Defense Ministry

More:
http://tass.com/defense/915277

Well 5 RGT for 2016!
They claim now 16 RGT for the end of 2016.
I'm a little bit consufed about the deployment. My personal counting stands at 15. Maybe someone can help.

I have the folowing pattern:

Western Military District (7 RGT plus 2 announced)

Moscow: 4 RGTs
• 210 AD RGT Dubrovki (5P85T2 TELs):
2 sites with 2 Battalions: 56.167371° 37.822745°and 56.063696° 37.500765°

• 93 AD RGT Svenigorod (5P85S2 TELs):
2 sites with 2 Battalions: 55.687537° 36.835377° and 55.941736° 36.913069°

• 606 AD RGt Elektrostal (5P85T2 TELs):
2 sites wit 2 Battalions: 55.796308° 38.357293° and 55.543436° 38.373120°

• 549 AD RGT Podolsk (5P85S2 TELs)
2 sites with 2 Battalions: 55.363357° 37.442335° and 55.359212° 37.607020°


Kaliningrad: 1 RGT
• 183 AD RGT Gwardeisk (5P85T2 TELs):
1 site with 1 or 2 Battalion (with a total of 12 TELs): 54.682654° 21.012234°


Murmansk: 1 RGT
• 531 AD RGT
--Gadshijevo site (69.232178° 33.256977°):
1 site with 1 or 2 battalion (with 12 launchers 5P85S2 TELs)
--Severomorsk site (69.054950° 33.348033° & 69.043204° 33.243891°) maybe organized in 1 additional Batt


St.Petersburg: 1 RGT (plus 2 more RGT announced for 2016)
• 500 AD RGT
2 sites with 2 Battalions at 59.895045° 29.437281° and 59.485446° 28.822210°

• ? AD RGT (announced for 2016)

• ? AD RGT (announced for 2016)


Eastern Military District (3 RGT)

Nachodka: 1 RGT
• 589 AD RGT Nachodka (5P85S2 TELs):
2 sites with 2 Battalions: 42.951133° 133.106931° and 42.735811° 132.860026°

Vladivostok: 1 RGT (summer 2016: at only 1 site – probably further deployment in 2016)
• 1533 AD RGT
2 sites with 2 Battallions: 43.022231° 131.789562° and 43.130167° 132.040857°
[Note: google earth still shows S-300PS deployment as of April/May 2016 at these two sites]
Plus one new site at Tavrichanka 43.358422° 131.863451° which was S-300V site until 2012
probably set up as a 3rd Batt (=Div) of the 1533rd. Google Earth shows 4 5P85S2, 92N6 & 96L6 at this site as of March 2016.

Kamchatka: 1 RGT
• 1532 AD RGT Petropavlovsk -Rybachi (5P85S2 TELs):
3 sites with 3 battalions: 53.060366° 158.773051° / 53.121334° 158.394619° / 52.925954° 158.498924°


Southern Military District (2 RGT)

Novorossisk: 1 RGT
• 1537 AD RGT Novorossisk (5P85S2 TELs):
2 sites with 2 Battalions: 44.664209° 37.782459° and 44.922545° 37.419733°

Crimea: 1 RGT
• 18 AD RGT - Crimea/Feodossia
possible locations 45.009633° 35.399836° / 45.150839° 35.726739° / 45.323842° 36.362506°
deployment still not verified!


Central Military District (1 RGT)

Novosibirsk: 1 RGT
• 590 AD RGT Novosibirsk (5P85S2 TELs):
2 sites with 2 Battalions: 54.862860° 82.825623° and 55.073365° 83.278359°


Including the 2 announced RGT for St Petersburg this makes 15 RGT.

So were is No 16 ?

I concur with you. Not sure of all locations myself. We should know by years end.

KiloGolf wrote:Yeah well now it's more confusing
Frickin S-300 sub-unit organization is so complicated.

What you see there is a only basic building blocks of the Russian grand airdefense design. It only starts to get interesting from there

The additional regiment is supposed to go to the Moscow Region. I think additional deployments in Rostov, Saratov (Engels Airbase), and near ICBM locations would be useful as well as major cities.

Arrow wrote:Thanks
So Russia in 2020 will be about +- 162 launcher S-300V4. In the case of S-400 it will be about 448 launcher.

You will have roughly:

- S.400 = 56*12*4 = 2688 "big" missiles max and 56*8*4= 1792"big" missiles min
- S-300P = 72*8*4=2304 "big" missiles
- S-300V = 9*3*4*(2*2+4*4)=2160 "big" missiles

meaning roughly by 2020 Russia will have ready to fire around 6700 "big" missiles with around 220 guidance radars of all kind able to guide abt. 3000 missiles

on 1500 targets at once

As I mentioned previously the general requirements for the Russian aerospace forces is simultaneous defense against the attacking force coming from

three different directions simultaneously each having composition of 500 planes

Viktor wrote:

Arrow wrote:Thanks
So Russia in 2020 will be about +- 162 launcher S-300V4. In the case of S-400 it will be about 448 launcher.

You will have roughly:

- S.400 = 56*12*4 = 2688 "big" missiles max and 56*8*4= 1792"big" missiles min
- S-300P = 72*8*4=2304 "big" missiles
- S-300V = 9*3*4*(2*2+4*4)=2160 "big" missiles

meaning roughly by 2020 Russia will have ready to fire around 6700 "big" missiles with around 220 guidance radars of all kind able to guide abt. 3000 missiles

on 1500 targets at once

As I mentioned previously the general requirements for the Russian aerospace forces is simultaneous defense against the attacking force coming from

three different directions simultaneously each having composition of 500 planes

For each missile they probably have at least 2 missiles for reload if not more. The loading take some 20-30 minutes if realoaders are near the systems so you can add some "3000 targets"

Isos wrote:

Viktor wrote:

Arrow wrote:Thanks
So Russia in 2020 will be about +- 162 launcher S-300V4. In the case of S-400 it will be about 448 launcher.

You will have roughly:

- S.400 = 56*12*4 = 2688 "big" missiles max and 56*8*4= 1792"big" missiles min
- S-300P = 72*8*4=2304 "big" missiles
- S-300V = 9*3*4*(2*2+4*4)=2160 "big" missiles

meaning roughly by 2020 Russia will have ready to fire around 6700 "big" missiles with around 220 guidance radars of all kind able to guide abt. 3000 missiles

on 1500 targets at once

As I mentioned previously the general requirements for the Russian aerospace forces is simultaneous defense against the attacking force coming from

three different directions simultaneously each having composition of 500 planes

For each missile they probably have at least 2 missiles for reload if not more.  The loading take some 20-30 minutes if realoaders are near the systems so you can add some "3000 targets"

I think they are full of missiles - they can keep firing till the end

Arrow wrote:

Ok but now all battalion S-400 have a 8 launcher.



All S-300PS will be withdraw. In service will be stay about 24 battalion S-300PM-2 and develop new S-350.

Around 75 batteries will be modernized to PM2 standard the rest will be withdrawn.

Arrow wrote:

I read that only S-300 PM. This is about 24 battalions.

I have read about 75 while the 30-40 S-300PS will be scraped. Anyway your number is way low by any measure

And you are optimistic to the end...

franco wrote:And you are optimistic to the end...  

There's no treaty in place that requires accurate numbers of SAM launchers.

franco wrote:And you are optimistic to the end...  

Haha thats right, you can not go against your own nature

Well after the SSSR breakup Russia had about 200+ S-300 batteries and that could be very conservative number anyway up to 2000 launchers /200+ batteries is the low end of suspected number. So you see, Russia does not have 24 of anything. We can discuss in hundreds  but in tens just does not work when referring to Russia. Its simply a wrong number. Russia has abt 400 nuclear tipped SAM missiles and that also does not fit your 24 battery PM2 count.

The philosophy of Russian aerospace forces ORBAT does not allow you to count all there is Thats my 24 cents

Remember when Syria was attacked at the begging  and Russian general said that Syria needs 12  S-300 batteries for the protection of the country of its size and expected enemies. I can not  see how by multiplying that number by only 2 Russia would settle for a country of its size and expected enemies.

I believe that Russia thinks that having around 200-250 batteries of S-300P/V/400 all are about the right number.

Strange; MOD Shoygu reports of 13 (!) RGT S-400....
http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201705241018-wbj0.htm

My count is 15 - 16* RGTs:

Moscow: 5 (606, 210, 93, 584, 549)
St. Petersbg: 2 (500, 1488)
Kaliningrd: 1 (183)
Murmansk: 1 (531)
Severodvinsk: 1 (1528)
Kamchatka: 1 (1532)
Nachodka: 1 (589)
Novorossisk: 1 (1537)
Crimea: 1 (18)
Novosibirsk: 1 (590)
Vladivostok: 1 (1533) *

* Vladivostok is still somewhat unclear.
Although they have got their Pantsir point defence more than one year ago
http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12079357@egNews
it seems that S-400 delivery is in progress only right now.

On the other hand it seems to me that hey have got at least four 5P85S2, one 92N6 and one 96L6 last year at the following location
43.358422° 131.863451°

Here are some statements about the 1533 which shows the Russian game of early announcements and slow progress in reality:

1. Press Service Eastern Military District 25.11.2015
http://structure.mil.ru/structure/okruga/east/news/more.htm?id=12066727@egNews

Военнослужащие гвардейского краснознаменного зенитного ракетного полка Восточного военного округа (ВВО), дислоцированного в Приморье,  приступили к освоению полкового комплекта зенитной ракетной системы (ЗРС) С-400 «Триумф» на полигоне Ашулук.
После приёмки новая техника будет доставлена в Приморье и заступит на боевое дежурство.

Servicemen of the Guards Red Banner Air Defense Missile Regiment of the Eastern Military District (VVO) stationed in Primorye began to develop a regiment of the S-400 Triumph anti-aircraft missile system at the Ashuluk range.
After acceptance, the new equipment will be delivered to Primorye and will take up combat duty.


2. Press Service Eastern Military District 25.2.2016
http://structure.mil.ru/structure/okruga/east/news/more.htm?id=12079357@egNews

На вооружение гвардейского краснознаменного зенитного ракетного полка, дислоцированного во Владивостоке, поступил дивизион новейших зенитных ракетно-пушечных комплексов (ЗРПК) «Панцирь-С2». Его расчеты на полигоне Ашулук в Астраханской области успешно освоили новую технику и выполнили стрельбы по различным видам мишеней.
Кроме того, во второй половине года полк пополнится комплектом зенитной ракетной системы (ЗРС) С-400 «Триумф». Сейчас ее расчеты проходят плановое переобучение.

The division of the newest anti-aircraft missile and cannon complexes (ZRPK) "Pantsir-S2" entered the arsenal of the Guards Red Banner air defense missile regiment stationed in Vladivostok. His calculations at the Ashuluk range in the Astrakhan region successfully mastered the new technique and fired at various types of targets.
In addition, in the second half of the year (2016) the regiment will be replenished with a set of the S-400 "Triumph" anti-aircraft missile system (SAM). Now her calculations are undergoing planned retraining.


3. Expression commander of the 93rd Division Air Defense 9.2.2017 on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the Primorsky air defense grouping.
http://to-ros.info/?p=46058#more-46058

..... полк подполковника Алексея Морокова – старейший в России (в 2015 году он отметил своё 85-летие). Его дивизионы создают надёжный оборонный щит над главной базой ТОФ – городом воинской славы Владивостоком. Сейчас полк перевооружается на новейшие ракетные системы.

... the regiment of Lieutenant Colonel Alexei Morokov - the oldest in Russia (in 2015, he celebrated his 85th birthday). Its divisions create a reliable defense shield over the main base of the Pacific Fleet, the city of military glory in Vladivostok. Now the regiment is rearming with the latest missile systems.


But even when we leave out the 1533 we would have 15 RGT right now...and not 13 ??????