Incidents in Russia (Natural Disasters, Accidents and Emergencies)

Militarov wrote:

sepheronx wrote:You people make me laugh. How would a plane blowing up in Egypt cause a second Afghanistan in Syria? Do any of you who post such nonsense realise where Egypt is? And where Syria is? As well, what, will this force Russia to invade Egypt? Will this all of a sudden increase terrorists in Syria? Or all will it do is increase bombing terrorists from the skies in Syria and provide assistance to Egypt to help fight the terrorists in Sinai?

If I was planning a flase flag, it would be in Syria, not Egypt.  Makes no logical sense.

Well, maybe, just maybe on longshot it would cause retaliation from Russians in terms of land operations in Syria to deal with ISIS threat. But still i dont find whole conspiracy theory very plausible, maybe, you never know but still not very likely. And land operation in Syria would be probably long, expencive in both manpower and funds and it would remind of Afganistan....i guess that would be the idea.

Nobody is dumb enough to start land operation in Syria, least of all Russia.

Some Americans maybe e.g. John McCain or Hilary Clinton&Co, but list ends there...

sepheronx wrote:

Firebird wrote:

sepheronx wrote:You people make me laugh. How would a plane blowing up in Egypt cause a second Afghanistan in Syria? Do any of you who post such nonsense realise where Egypt is? And where Syria is? As well, what, will this force Russia to invade Egypt? Will this all of a sudden increase terrorists in Syria? Or all will it do is increase bombing terrorists from the skies in Syria and provide assistance to Egypt to help fight the terrorists in Sinai?

If I was planning a flase flag, it would be in Syria, not Egypt.  Makes no logical sense.

Turn it down will you...

"Afghanistan" means "a quagmire" ie  drawing Russia into a long, costly, morale and money sapping campaign. It DOESN'T refer to Afghanistan or any place in particular. Its like calling a military campaign for America a "new Vietnam".

MOST of the Middle East is infected with ISIS. Much of it has US backed maniacs.
The loss of 200 innocent Russians is a way of potentially pushing Russia further into a conflict in the M East. More so, that whatever is happening in Arab v Arab events.

So your attempt to differentiate Egypt/Syria or wherever makes no sense.

Back to the other pt, its one hell of a coincidence that there was an article re Russian and US jets being knocked out of the sky just a day or two before.

And we all know Russia would just up the ante by bombing more ISIS positions.  That is it.  We all know they are not going to all of a sudden send in some sort of contingent to fight them.

It's laughable how the West remembers the Afghan theatre as Russia's 'quagmire', but not for the U.S. or NATO who are failing miserably in Afghanistan lol! Talk about selective memories lmao!

As far as winning in Syria, there's more than one way to skin a cat! Instead of Russia sending in ground forces, Russia really only needs to make the lives of Turkey and the GCC vermin miserable. Start jamming communications, ELINT/SIGINT, etc., etc. in Yemen and in southern Turkey, and let it do it's magic!

magnumcromagnon wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Firebird wrote:

sepheronx wrote:You people make me laugh. How would a plane blowing up in Egypt cause a second Afghanistan in Syria? Do any of you who post such nonsense realise where Egypt is? And where Syria is? As well, what, will this force Russia to invade Egypt? Will this all of a sudden increase terrorists in Syria? Or all will it do is increase bombing terrorists from the skies in Syria and provide assistance to Egypt to help fight the terrorists in Sinai?

If I was planning a flase flag, it would be in Syria, not Egypt.  Makes no logical sense.

Turn it down will you...

"Afghanistan" means "a quagmire" ie  drawing Russia into a long, costly, morale and money sapping campaign. It DOESN'T refer to Afghanistan or any place in particular. Its like calling a military campaign for America a "new Vietnam".

MOST of the Middle East is infected with ISIS. Much of it has US backed maniacs.
The loss of 200 innocent Russians is a way of potentially pushing Russia further into a conflict in the M East. More so, that whatever is happening in Arab v Arab events.

So your attempt to differentiate Egypt/Syria or wherever makes no sense.

Back to the other pt, its one hell of a coincidence that there was an article re Russian and US jets being knocked out of the sky just a day or two before.

And we all know Russia would just up the ante by bombing more ISIS positions.  That is it.  We all know they are not going to all of a sudden send in some sort of contingent to fight them.

It's laughable how the West remembers the Afghan theatre as Russia's 'quagmire', but not for the U.S. or NATO who are failing miserably in Afghanistan lol! Talk about selective memories lmao!

As far as winning in Syria, there's more than one way to skin a cat! Instead of Russia sending in ground forces, Russia really only needs to make the lives of Turkey and the GCC vermin miserable. Start jamming communications, ELINT/SIGINT, etc., etc. in Yemen and in southern Turkey, and let it do it's magic!

Let's not forget that it was Gorbachev who basically pulled the plug on the Afghanistan operation and the Najibullah government. By
now we should know that Gorby was a compardor and it was not obvious that the USSR would have failed to prevail in the long term.
Much like one could pontificate about Russia's failure in Chechnya in 1996 and ignorantly claim that it would never prevail.

Yes, the more so when we look at this as being about the 5th time the British have "invaded" Afghanistan... with consistent results...

This is just speculation...

Looking at the videos and photos it seems that part of the aircraft is missing, at least as a clearly recognisable single piece of wreckage, and that is the fuselage from just behind the wings to just forward of the tail. The tail does not have the back blown out or shredded which might be the case in rear bulkhead failure, and the rear door is still in place and only suffers buckling from impact, so a rear door blow out, which has caused some crashes in the past, can be ruled out, and in fact no airliner has crashed due to door blowout since 1974 and that was a fault specific to DC-10 and no other type of aircraft before or since, tho I may be wrong on that. In June 1980 Aerolinee Itavia Flight 870 flying from Bologna to Palermo crashed into the sea just north of Sicily. The exact cause is still disputed and an accidental hit by a missile from a French fighter possibly engaged with Libyan fighters is still seen as the cause by Italian authorities. It seems that all experts outside of Italy see that as total bullshit. The rear lavatory of the aircraft, a DC-9, was found to have damage consistant with an internal explosion, a bomb. Tests were made on a DC-9 lavatory with a small explosive device and exactly the same pattern of damage was seen. Airbus A-321 have a rear toilet, but it is right at the tail and looking at photos it seems, to non expert eyes, that the tail ripped off reasonably cleanly and probably the result of aerodynamic forces more than an explosion. However, A-321 have more than one lavatory and there is a central one that is just rear of where the wings meet the fuselage. No group ever claimed responsibility for the Italian aircraft crash, or Pan Am Flight 103, or the Air India flight blown up over the Atlantic, so claims or lack of claims do not have any great relevance.

On Saturday, Airbus A-321 operated by Russian airline Kogalymavia crashed in the Sinai Peninsula en route from the Egyptian resort city of Sharm El-Sheikh to St. Petersburg. All 224 people on board, including 25 children, were confirmed dead by Russian and Egyptian authorities. The tragedy has already been named the biggest civil aviation disaster in Russian and Soviet history.

After the tail part of the Airbus A321 plane had sustained damages, the airliner was fully repaired. The technical condition of the plane was normal, Kogalymavia officials said. “Before the A321 began falling, it most likely had received considerable damage to its construction that would not allow it to fly. Obviously, due to this, when the catastrophic situation started to unfold, the crew completely lost control over the plane, which would explain why there were no attempts to communicate and report on the emergency situation on board,” the airlines’ deputy general director of technical and production issues, Andrei Averianov, said at a press conference in Moscow.

External forces are the only possible reason of the deadly crash, Kogalymavia officials said Monday. Kogalymavia 7K9268 flight likely suffered substantial damages when it started to fall, officials said. Only possible explanation for the crash is "physical or mechanical actions," the officials said.

The Kogalymavia plane's crew completely lost control over the aircraft as the disaster started to unfold. The Airbus A321 had been in uncontrolled flight as the catastrophe unfolded. However, Kogalymavia excluded human or technical factors as the cause for the deadly crash in Egypt, officials said.

However, the crashed Russian airliner had passed all necessary tests; and the technical condition of the plane was good, the company's top manager said Monday. The aircraft's engines were inspected in Moscow on October 26; no problems were found. Moreover, there were no problems with the quality of fuel used by the Russian airliner.

“In regard to fatigued cracks it should be noted that work on its assessment of metal fatigue on airliners is done every five years. We also conducted such work very carefully on this plane and that was in March 2014,” Kogalymavia flight director Alexander Smirnov said during a press conference in Moscow.

Debris belonging to the A321 Russian airliner are seen at the site of the crash in Wadi el-Zolmat, a mountainous area in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on November 1, 2015. International investigators began probing why a Russian airliner carrying 224 people crashed in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, killing everyone on board, as rescue workers widened their search for missing victims.

The Russian airline does not exclude a terrorist attack or an explosion as reasons behind the 7K9268 flight's deadly crash.

Kogalymavia halted flights over the Sinai Peninsula, the company's top manager said. There are no doubts that the investigation into the Russian plane crash is objective, officials said.

The company added that videos shared online, which allegedly showed the Russian airliner's crash in Egypt, were likely fake.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151102/1029455702/kogalymavia-tail-part-damaged.html#ixzz3qKU9Wc00

It's starting to sound like a work of terrorists. If this is the case it will only make Russia more determined in their fight against domestic and external terrorism. No, Russia won't attack Egypt or something like that, but I bet Russian agents will be going to business trips into this region.

^ I agree.
Russian media are now saying that preliminary autopsy reports on about one hundred victims show main causes of death to be severe trauma, rupture of internal organs and burning. The first two are what would be expected in any fall from great hight, but the burning is important, and of course horrific. The tail shows no sign of fire damage, and if it had ripped off as a cause of the tragedy, while making the aircraft suddenly fall from the sky would not cause it to burn. The nose of the aircraft shows no fire damage. Therefore the fire was situated somewere between these two extremities. It is not pleasant to even think about, but the only way a cause of death by burning is established is by the state of the lungs and air passages. That a so far unknown number died by burning shows the aircraft was on fire as it fell. The wings, while burned, are otherwise intact so if a fuel tank had exploded, as in the case of a TWA 747 some years back, this would not be that case and obvious severe distruption to the central part of the aircraft and wings would be seen, or not, as they would likely have disintegrated in the explosion, and that part of the aircraft is reasonably intact. Presuming a fuel tank had not exploded, then any other fire caused by accident would be much slower to take effect, not a sudden explosion, and the pilot would have had time to send a message that he had a fire, but nothing, they just drop out of the sky without warning. So, if there was no fuel tank explosion and presumably no "normal" fire, what other event can cause the aircraft to suddenly, in moments, fall from the sky and burn on the way down. I still don't say it definately was a bomb, but the evidence to even a non expert starts to very strongly suggest so.

Let's look at the facts here.

-No SOS signal was sent out from the airliner
-Pilots maybe reported some problems with the plane but nothing serious
-Egyptian technicians swear that the plane underwent a 35 minute pre-check

Then this ends with: a sudden mid-air breach and collapse of the hull?

This smell like an inside explosion i.e. terrorist act.

No shortage of accident investigators descending on the site. No slow work or secrets here then, unlike some other crash we know of..

MOSCOW (Sputnik), Anastasia Levchenko – On Sunday, an Irish Aviation Authority representative told RIA Novosti that the Russian aircraft was registered in an Ireland-based office of US subsidiary company Wilmington Trust SP Services.

"The Air Accident Investigation Unit (AAIU) of Ireland is sending two investigators to assist with the investigation. They will also be accompanied by an official from the Irish Aviation Authority. So there will be three individuals traveling," Leo Murray stated. The Kogalymavia (Metrojet) operator leased the aircraft from Wilmington Trust SP Services, which registered the Airbus A321 in 2012.

French and German civil aviation teams, alongside an Airbus investigation team, are also expected to assist Russia’s Interstate Aviation Committee in the inquiry.

All 217 passengers and seven crew members aboard flight 9268, en route from the resort city of Sharm El-Sheikh to St. Petersburg, have been confirmed dead. The tragedy is the biggest civil aviation disaster in Russian and Soviet history.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20151102/1029467371/a321-aaiu-investigation-aid.html#ixzz3qKuDQGFl

No traces of explosive substances have so far been discovered on the debris of Kogalymavia's A321 plane that crashed in Sinai on Saturday, a source familiar with the investigation said Monday.

CAIRO (Sputnik) — The source told RIA Novosti:

"No traces of explosive substances have been discovered thus far on the analyzed parts of the plane."

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151102/1029477178/a321-no-explosives-traces.html#ixzz3qLgRM1bP

More photos from the crash site:

















































Source for all photos: https://twitter.com/Kosarev_RT

My condolences to all victims families. RIP

"The Russian airline whose jet crashed in Egypt killing everyone on board said on Monday the crash could not have been caused by a technical fault or human error. The crash, in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on Saturday, could only have been the result of some other "technical or physical action" which caused it to break up in the air and plummet to the ground, said Alexander Smirnov, deputy general director of the airline, Kogalymavia. He did not specify what that action might have been, saying it was up to the official investigation to determine.

"The plane was in excellent condition," Smirnov told a news conference in Moscow. "We rule out a technical fault and any mistake by the crew," he said. He said there had been no emergency call from the pilots to services on the ground during the flight, which took off from the Egyptian Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh and was bound for the Russian city of St Petersburg. Kogalymavia's deputy general director for engineering, Andrei Averyanov, said a 2001 incident when the plane's tail section struck the tarmac on landing was fully repaired and could not have been a factor in the crash.

He said the aircraft's engines had undergone routine inspection in Moscow on Oct. 26 which found no problems and he said in the five flights before the crash, the crew recorded no technical problems in the aircraft's log book. Oksana Golovina, a representative of the holding company that controls Kogalymavia, told the news conference the airline had experienced no financial problems which could have influenced flight safety."

Source: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/11/02/uk-egypt-crash-russia-airline-idUKKCN0SR12T20151102

"The Russian plane that crashed in Egypt was not struck from the outside and the pilot did not make a distress call before it disappeared from radar, a source in the committee analyzing the flight recorders said on Monday. The source declined to give more details but based his comments on the preliminary examination of the black boxes recovered from the Airbus A321 which crashed in the Sinai Peninsula on Saturday killing all 224 people on board. The Egyptian government said the black boxes were being examined by Egyptian and Russian experts along with German and French specialists from Airbus and from Ireland where the aircraft was registered. It said the search was continuing across the 9-sq-km crash site. Security sources said intelligence agencies had obtained a copy of the passenger list.

Russian officials have said the plane, carrying holidaymakers from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh to St Petersburg, likely broke up in mid-air but said it was too early to say what caused it to crash. When asked if a terrorist attack could be to blame, Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov said no theory could yet be ruled out. An Egyptian militant group affiliated with Islamic State said on Saturday it brought down the plane "in response to Russian air strikes that killed hundreds of Muslims on Syrian land". Russian Transport Minister Maxim Sokolov dismissed the claim, saying it "can't be considered accurate". "

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/02/us-egypt-crash-idUSKCN0SR1FH20151102

Black box data soon, just like MH-17. Oh sorry, misread weeks for months...............................

CAIRO (Sputnik) — Preparation of a report on flight data recorders of Russian crashed A321 will take from one to four weeks, spokesman for the Egyptian government Hossam al-Kawish said Tuesday.

"Transcript work on the black boxes depends on the technical condition in which they were found. Civil Aviation Minister assured that the black boxes were found in good condition, thus the report should be prepared in short period of time, from one to four weeks," Kawish told CBC News.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/world/20151103/1029507907/a321-flight-data-recorders-in-four-weeks.html#ixzz3qNYntp4t

"Items not related to the structure of A-321 found at crash site" says this report from Rossiya 24. http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2682625&cid=7  
An earlier report now widely circulated says that an American infra-red satellite had detected a heat flash over Sinai at the time of the disaster. Yet their satelites seem unable to detect even the existance of Ukraine, let alone airliners being shot down or Russian "invasions"......

NTV are quoting Interfax that a source in Cairo says the last contact from the pilot was four minutes before the aircraft dissapeared from radar, but that sounds in the background were "Uncharacteristic of normal flight sounds", tho the pilot did not report any problems. The link NTV provided to Interfax does not work and I cannot find this report anywhere but on NTV http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1560857/

Khepesh wrote:"Items not related to the structure of A-321 found at crash site" says this report from Rossiya 24. http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2682625&cid=7  
An earlier report now widely circulated says that an American infra-red satellite had detected a heat flash over Sinai at the time of the disaster. Yet their satelites seem unable to detect even the existance of Ukraine, let alone airliners being shot down or Russian "invasions"......

NTV are quoting Interfax that a source in Cairo says the last contact from the pilot was four minutes before the aircraft dissapeared from radar, but that sounds in the background were "Uncharacteristic of normal flight sounds", tho the pilot did not report any problems. The link NTV provided to Interfax does not work and I cannot find this report anywhere but on NTV http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1560857/

If there were "uncharacteristic flight sounds" wouldn't the pilot have picked it up on his dashboard? AFAIK every little piece of the plane's equipment is represented on the pilot's dashboard so that he can act accordingly in case something goes wrong. The media are full of shit too, they are polluting the facts with speculation of their own.

Neutrality wrote:
If there were "uncharacteristic flight sounds" wouldn't the pilot have picked it up on his dashboard? AFAIK every little piece of the plane's equipment is represented on the pilot's dashboard so that he can act accordingly in case something goes wrong. The media are full of shit too, they are polluting the facts with speculation of their own.

I suspect that report originates from Egyptian "officers daughter" who has some connection with Cairo ATC and is exagerrating or simply lying. I never trust NTV since the Gusinsky days, even with him now gone, but the news is put out so I think worth repeating just in case there is some truth, and if it is at least true that last contact was four minutes before whatever happened and no reports of problems, then it shows a very sudden problem. It is noticed that on Saturday and Sunday the media etc were talking in terms of it not being terrorist, but they only mentioned this is relation to missile and strangely never said the word "bomb". I thought this curious as it must be a possibility from the very first news, but now "bomb" is mentioned, and with increasing frequency. I suspect that the cockpit recorder has already been listen too and it will be known if there was sound of explosion, or even some problem within the cockpit. CVR noise gave the clue to Pan Am 103 being a bomb.

I was about to post the video that is said to show the inside of the cabin minutes before the crash. It shows what looks like white smoke coming out of the ventilators and the passengers are speaking Russian and are concerned about this, but not very much. I believe that video is old and shows the condensation that can occur when taking of from a very hot environment, like Egypt, and ascending into high cold air.

However, breaking news. Forensic experts have divided the remains of the victims so far returned to Peter into two groups. First those whose bodies were found in the forward and central part of the aircraft, and secondly those whose bodies were found towards the tail. Injuries to those in the first group are traumas expected with an aircraft crash, while those in the second group have been burnt and many have metal particles and other parts of the aircraft embedded in them, injuries that can really only be caused by an explosion and the forensic experts say that these bodies show what could be termed the effects of a thermal blast shockwave. http://lifenews.ru/news/167897  The baggage hold of the airbus is directly under where these passegers would have sat from rear of the wings to the tail.

"Egypt’s civil aviation ministry said on Tuesday there were no facts to substantiate assertions by Russian officials that the Russian airliner that crashed in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula on Saturday broke up in mid-air.

But spokesman Mohamed Rahmi confirmed that no distress call had been received before the crash, which left wreckage from the Metrojet Airbus 321, carrying Russian holidaymakers back to St Petersburg from the Sinai Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, strewn over more than 3 km (2 miles) of desert. “No communication from the pilot was recorded at the navigation centers requesting anything,” he told Reuters. Rahmi said the investigating team, led by Egypt and aided by experts from Russia, Airbus and Ireland, where the plane is registered, had returned to the crash site on Tuesday morning. Once investigations at the site were completed, probably later in the day, they would focus on analyzing the contents of the black box flight recorders, Rahmi said.

Sources on the investigation committee have said the recorders are in good condition and should yield clues. Rahmi said there was no proof yet that the plane had broken up in flight. "This could be a long process and we can’t talk about the results as we go along,” he said. However, the fact that no distress call was received, and the wreckage was scattered widely, has suggested a sudden breakup to many experts. Theories floated so far range from a missile attack, or a bomb on board, to a structural failure."

Hmm...

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/03/us-egypt-crash-russia-idUSKCN0SS1LH20151103

Egyptian forensic experts say analysis of injuries to victims indicate a mid-air explosion http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151103/1029538354/midair-explosion-a321-forensic-expert.html

Yes, now reports are coming out saying that the likeliness of an explosion is very high.

Without the media BS: this was an explosion.