Russian Civil Aviation: News #2

miketheterrible wrote:

KomissarBojanchev wrote:Why doesn't Russia sell the SSJ100 with american components to Iran anyway? Its not like anyone will give a shit.

At this moment, I think Russia is still holding onto the last string of trying to look like a good country to cooperate with since they will uphold their end of the bargain.  Which seems to be working since so many countries are still flooding into Russia to invest in.

Problem is, Russia will face the issue of having little cooperation with Iran and others whom are interested in Russian stuff but they decided to play nice, even though everyone else isn't.  And the US is pushing sanctions hard on Russia by threatening third nations like India as an example.

This just shows that any kind of attempt to appease the US is going against Russian economic interests and bordering on treason.

GarryB wrote:Makes more sense to develop all Russian components so Russia can sell a sanitised sanctions proof version to anyone.... including itself.

Immediate profits are more important. Plus Iran could reverse engineer the US components of the SSJ100. When america starts to bitch they won't be able to do more. Bitching about Iran having American civilian aircraft landing gear will make the US a laughing stock in front of the 3rd world and Europe will just ignore it.

Actually why not get Iran to licence produce Russian alternative components to the US components in these aircraft.... then when Russia sells these aircraft to countries the US is likely to sanction (so they wont want any US components in it) Iran can make a bit of money out of US sanctions...

GarryB wrote:Actually why not get Iran to licence produce Russian alternative components to the US components in these aircraft.... then when Russia sells these aircraft to countries the US is likely to sanction (so they wont want any US components in it) Iran can make a bit of money out of US sanctions...

Because it will take many years before Russia tests its components and Iran needs the aircraft now and Russia needs money now.

Russia already has civilian aircraft, so the components already exist.

They wont be up to a high standard but they can be upgraded when the systems are improved.

The point is that if they keep selling planes with western avionics then why would Russian Avionics get better with no market or experience?

GarryB wrote:Makes more sense to develop all Russian components so Russia can sell a sanitised sanctions proof version to anyone.... including itself.

True, but it also costs money and takes time. And bears risk that success is not with the first iteration. Currently Tu-204/214 has all Russian components and MS-21 is likely to have unless somebody took lots of bribes to do otherwise.

SSJ100 will be gradually localized but unlikely 100%.

One more negative factor is that now US is imposing new sanctions against Iran. This effectively blocks Iranian funds on western accounts. So this 100bln USD unlikely returns home.


The only short term solution is to either order Il-114/Tu-204 first then MS-21 with partial localization in Iran. Full in case of Tu-204. Iran should not be too picky in case of lack of money and even tougher sanctios...

GarryB wrote:Russia already has civilian aircraft, so the components already exist.

They wont be up to a high standard but they can be upgraded when the systems are improved.

The point is that if they keep selling planes with western avionics then why would Russian Avionics get better with no market or experience?

Why not do both by selling the western equipped Russian aircraft to Iran right now and using the immediate profits fund R/D for domestic technologies?

The whole point of the US forbidding Russia to sell equipment to Iran is to keep it short of money.

Since the start of the program, it was stated that there would be a "pure Russian" version of the MS-21 airliner, with PD-14 engines. It will come later than the "Westernized" version (first prototype already flying with P&W engines), but it will come. So they won't repeat the same mistake as with the SSJ.

Svyatoslavich wrote:Since the start of the program, it was stated that there would be a "pure Russian" version of the MS-21 airliner, with PD-14 engines. It will come later than the "Westernized" version (first prototype already flying with P&W engines), but it will come. So they won't repeat the same mistake as with the SSJ.

What if the PD 14 is delayed a lot longer than the actual aircraft?

KomissarBojanchev wrote:
What if the PD 14 is delayed a lot longer than the actual aircraft?

It doesn't seem it will get delayed, it already passed all manufacturer's tests and is now undergoing certification, it is unlikely they will stumble into serious problems at this stage.

KomissarBojanchev wrote:

Svyatoslavich wrote:Since the start of the program, it was stated that there would be a "pure Russian" version of the MS-21 airliner, with PD-14 engines. It will come later than the "Westernized" version (first prototype already flying with P&W engines), but it will come. So they won't repeat the same mistake as with the SSJ.

What if the PD 14 is delayed a lot longer than the actual aircraft?

I'm sure that in that case Iran will just buy from Airbus and Boeing as they always do so worry not...

True, but it also costs money and takes time. And bears risk that success is not with the first iteration. Currently Tu-204/214 has all Russian components and MS-21 is likely to have unless somebody took lots of bribes to do otherwise.

If they want to use them domestically they will need domestic versions...

SSJ100 will be gradually localized but unlikely 100%.

I am sure the Russian military can find a use for such an aircraft and they can pay to Russianise it.

Of course keep in mind the costs to develop Russian equivalents is money spent investing in something that can be applied to Russian aircraft across the board, so not only is it money spent within the Russian economy on a Russian company to allow it to replace foreign companies in the local and international market, it also improves the level Russian companies can work and compete at internationally and domestically.

One more negative factor is that now US is imposing new sanctions against Iran. This effectively blocks Iranian funds on western accounts. So this 100bln USD unlikely returns home.

They should withdraw them all immediately... why buy products from such a criminal organisation?

I can only think Stockholm syndrome.

Why not do both by selling the western equipped Russian aircraft to Iran right now and using the immediate profits fund R/D for domestic technologies?

What profits... the western companies making the western components get the most profit from such sales.... it was the same with the Indian Su-30MKIs...

Thales made out very well on those deals....

It doesn't seem it will get delayed, it already passed all manufacturer's tests and is now undergoing certification, it is unlikely they will stumble into serious problems at this stage.

It is going to be very widely used on Russian engines... both new and existing.

It will be used on new Il-276 (only two per aircraft) and also Il-476 (4 per aircraft).

An uprated model could even be used on the upgraded and updated Il-106... which might end up being called Il-676 perhaps...

More amusing is if the US cancels the deal completely and puts Iran under full US sanctions again... that means Airbus but not Boeing...

GarryB wrote:

True, but it also costs money and takes time. And bears risk that success is not with the first iteration. Currently Tu-204/214 has all Russian components and MS-21 is likely to have unless somebody took lots of bribes to do otherwise.

If they want to use them domestically they will need domestic versions...

Well the fun is that Tu-204 i produced in very slow pace and Iranians unlikely got their orders within 10 yrs or so. With MS-21 can be otherwise though. Thsi complimented with Il-114 can be good solution only if Russian throughput will be increased.

GarryB wrote:

SSJ100 will be gradually localized but unlikely 100%.

I am sure the Russian military can find a use for such an aircraft and they can pay to Russianise it.

Of course keep in mind the costs to develop Russian equivalents is money spent investing in something that can be applied to Russian aircraft across the board, so not only is it money spent within the Russian economy on a Russian company to allow it to replace foreign companies in the local and international market, it also improves the level Russian companies can work and compete at internationally and domestically.

Money for any investment is in short supply so they have to be prioritized,

GarryB wrote:

One more negative factor is that now US is imposing new sanctions against Iran. This effectively blocks Iranian funds on western accounts. So this 100bln USD unlikely returns home.

They should withdraw them all immediately... why buy products from such a criminal organisation?

I can only think Stockholm syndrome.

First of all. I do not think they were unconditionally released l otherwise they would be already in Iran. They would be released under condition Iran buys something in US/EU.

Today, the 145th Sukhoi Superjet made its first flight.

https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/100055/

It is the 27th for this year.

Also today, an Antonov AN-148 made its first flight at VASO in Voronezh.
This is the second AN-148 that flew in 2017.
It is destined for the Russian Defense Ministry.
Many photos at the bottom of this page:

https://vk.com/antonov_148?w=wall-63415490_4457

TheArmenian wrote:Today, the 145th Sukhoi Superjet made its first flight.

https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/100055/

It is the 27th for this year...............

They are about to double last year's output with room to spare. 150th SSJ jubilee is also coming soon.

I read in some interview that they do not plan to push production beyond 30 aircraft per year due to market saturation in that segment.

Even Bobmbardier seem to be exiting civilian segment and only retaining business segment:
http://www.fliegerfaust.com/q400-sold-to-china-2502191746.html

SSJ is doing good at current capacity so it makes sense.

PapaDragon wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:Today, the 145th Sukhoi Superjet made its first flight.

https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/100055/

It is the 27th for this year...............

They are about to double last year's output with room to spare. 150th SSJ jubilee is also coming soon.

I read in some interview that they do not plan to push production beyond 30 aircraft per year due to market saturation in that segment.

Even Bobmbardier seem to be exiting civilian segment and only retaining business segment:
http://www.fliegerfaust.com/q400-sold-to-china-2502191746.html

SSJ is doing good at current capacity so it makes sense.

America basically made Bombardier an offer it could not refuse.

Bombardier screwed up entirely since they were wanting to sell the C400 series to Russia, and Russia planned a huge order (something along like 300 planes) and then Canada had to go all Pro Neo Nazi Ukraine and then sanction Russia. Which really killed the deal and helped nearly bankrupt Bombardier (mixed in with Bombardiers drastic corruption, lack of providing goods on a timely basis or in quality).

Turkey’s TAI signs civil aviation deal with Russia’s Irkut

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) has signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with Russian company Irkut on a strategic cooperation venture, TAI said on Nov. 13.

“According to the agreement which was signed, the two companies will implement joint design and production in the field of civil aviation,” it said in a statement.

The MoU was signed on the sidelines of the Dubai Air Show, which is being held on Nov. 12-16.

Pursuing a diversification strategy, Irkut Corporation develops and manufactures the МС-21 short/mid-range airliner family for the needs of civil aviation, according to data from the company’s website.

Meanwhile, for the first time in Dubai, TAI’s T129 ATAK Advanced Attack and Tactical Reconnaissance Helicopter will be showing its performance on the first three days of the exhibition, according to a previous TAI statement.

Until now, the T129 ATAK has been successfully deployed for several tests and demonstrations in various locations in the world including Turkey, Poland, Pakistan, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Bahrain and the United Kingdom, according to the statement.

Programme status MC-21-300

The VIP version of the MS-21 aircraft may appear in 2022

DUBAI, November 15th. / TASS /. A VIP version of the Russian MS-21 aircraft may appear in 2022, Alexander Rubtsov, president of Sukhoi Civil Aircraft, told reporters on the sidelines of the Dubai Air Show - 2017.
"The VIP version (MS-21 aircraft) should appear after two to three years of commercial operation, the machine must be cleaned of childhood diseases," he said. "It [the VIP version] is planned unconditionally."
Currently, the aircraft MS-21-300 is being developed, and at the end of May 2017 it made its first flight. The first deliveries of the aircraft are planned for 2019, the receipt of the type certificate and the start of the batch production - for 2019.

Подробнее на ТАСС:
http://tass.ru/ekonomika/4731018




More than 50% of the aircraft SSJ-100 is planned to be exported

DUBAI, November 14th. / TASS /. The manufacturer of the Russian SSJ-100 aircraft, Sukhoi Civil Aircraft (SCU), plans to export more than 50% of the aircraft. This was reported to journalists on the sidelines of the Dubai Air Show -2017 by the president of the SCA Alexander Rubtsov.
He also noted that the share of export sales of aircraft could be 50%.


"If we say that we are manufacturing and selling 30-35 cars (SSJ-100 per year - TASS comment) - this is a huge volume, almost 40% of the market, we will probably need expansion into the adjacent segments. we consider the development of the car in the direction of reducing the seats, facilitating the airplane to 75-78 and increasing it to 110 seats.In parallel, work will be carried out to improve the design, improve reliability and improve the quality of after-sales service, "Rubtsov said .- According to our forecast, more than half of sales will account for the foreign market in the near future".
According to Rubtsov, now there are about 120 planes in operation, the 169th copy is going to.
As previously reported, in 2015 the company produced 19 aircraft, in 2016 - 22 aircraft. This year it is planned to produce at least 30 aircraft


Подробнее на ТАСС:
http://tass.ru/ekonomika/4728235

Some extra news about possible new contracts for SSJ-100, can Russian speaker give the highlights?

https://rg.ru/2017/11/14/superdzhet-100-stanet-menshe.html

PapaDragon wrote:
Some extra news about possible new contracts for SSJ-100, can Russian speaker give the highlights?

https://rg.ru/2017/11/14/superdzhet-100-stanet-menshe.html

- Plans are to create a shortened version of the Superjet with 75-78 seating spaces; in accordance to the requirements of a potential customer that's waiting for the new design by Feb. (must be a big customer)
- Azerbaijan wants to buy a few Superjets in VIP configuration. Definite order for 1 plane, with an option for several more.
- Unamed Asian country that borders India; preliminary order for 20 Superjets in standard configuration.
- Africans are looking for replacements for old models, and the head of Sukhoi Civilian Airplanes is hoping to sell some to them.
- Some interest from European airlines; which makes the current co-operation with their existing customer - Irish CityJet - all the more important. CityJet is in fact pressuring Sukhoi to provide better support and spare parts for the planes; they had a meeting not long ago and a roadplan was agreed upon that Sukhoi is currently carrying out.
- Interest into the MS-21 airplane at the Dubai airshow was enourmous but no further details on that.

flamming_python wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:
Some extra news about possible new contracts for SSJ-100, can Russian speaker give the highlights?

https://rg.ru/2017/11/14/superdzhet-100-stanet-menshe.html

- Plans are to create a shortened version of the Superjet with 75-78 seating spaces; in accordance to the requirements of a potential customer that's waiting for the new design by Feb. (must be a big customer)
- Azerbaijan wants to buy a few Superjets in VIP configuration. Definite order for 1 plane, with an option for several more.
- Unamed Asian country that borders India; preliminary order for 20 Superjets in standard configuration.
- Africans are looking for replacements for old models, and the head of Sukhoi Civilian Airplanes is hoping to sell some to them.
- Some interest from European airlines; which makes the current co-operation with their existing customer - Irish CityJet - all the more important. CityJet is in fact pressuring Sukhoi to provide better support and spare parts for the planes; they had a meeting not long ago and a roadplan was agreed upon that Sukhoi is currently carrying out.
- Interest into the MS-21 airplane at the Dubai airshow was enourmous but no further details on that.

Thanks


Also:

28th SuperJet for this year completed:

https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/100273/

Crazy billionaires want to turn the Tu-160 into a supersonic business jet...

Tycoons want to convert Russian strategic bomber into a supersonic business jet

Wealthy businessmen from the Middle East, Australia, and Greece, have asked Russian aerospace and defense company Tupolev to turn the Tu-160 strategic bomber, into a private supersonic plane, according to the company's lead designer Valery Solozobov.

https://www.rt.com/business/409726-russia-tupolev-bomber-business-jet/

What it could look like....but I guess it will only remain a photoshop

Large amphibian 121 concept

Looks like it's suppose to use some elements from the MS-21