Russian Navy: Status & News #2

Russia developing Shtorm supercarrier

The carrier wont be that big... 80K ton at most... probably rather less and with no long range strike role as their navy will have every ship able to carry land attack cruise missiles of a range of types... including hypersonic by the time this carrier is operational.

It will likely be nuclear powered too...

They mention potential customer requirements for both ships.

And the ship projects are both suffixed with the letter 'E'.

My bet is that this has nothing to do with Russian Navy requirements or the ship configurations that they're interested in.

Just some wet-dreams of Krylovsky State Research Center over export orders. Perhaps these are the export models of the proposals for the Russian fleet. But could just as easily be unrelated.

Didn't TR1 claim that Krylovsky only really tests hydrodynamic configurations and that it is not responsible for the ultimate design of the ship? We already seen that Pagoda-destroyer configuration of theirs earlier.
Definitely wet-dreams then.

we are currently looking for a customer-defined research and development, modeling, prototyping

An elegantly evasive way of saying that they don't have any customer interest at the moment at all and that this is simply their private initiative/wet dream.

BTW such talk and proposals of reviving ekranoplans have been around since the 90s. One company made some scale models too, and made the same proposals about oceanographic uses, etc..

As it stands now, it's as dead as the flying saucer I'm afraid.

http://sputniknews.com/military/20150520/1022363599.html

As I said in the past, using foreign components in anything military related was stupid.

I wonder what foreign components, other than engines, those Gremyashchy corvettes use? Armament is domestic, radars, EW and communications are domestic. There is nothing there, they could not produce at home. Domestic engines will maybe take some time to be produced, but there is no reason to cancel the project.

flamming_python wrote:

we are currently looking for a customer-defined research and development, modeling, prototyping

An elegantly evasive way of saying that they don't have any customer interest at the moment at all and that this is simply their private initiative/wet dream.

BTW such talk and proposals of reviving ekranoplans have been around since the 90s. One company made some scale models too, and made the same proposals about oceanographic uses, etc..

As it stands now, it's as dead as the flying saucer I'm afraid.

True, but a bit too pesimistic IMO.

If it was dead they wouldn't be still bringing it up at conferences and promoting it...it also sounds like they're still working on it at some level.


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Some news on the 'Yantar' (Pr. 22010) Oceanographic Research Vessel ....Spy ship ?

In August, the "Yantar" will go out into the Atlantic for continued testing of all its hardware. By October, the test must be completed, and depending on the success of the tests, the customer to decide on the construction of a series of such ships, the source said.

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150520/1065498684.html#ixzz3afN2kLT9

medo wrote:I wonder what foreign components, other than engines, those Gremyashchy corvettes use? Armament is domestic, radars, EW and communications are domestic. There is nothing there, they could not produce at home. Domestic engines will maybe take some time to be produced, but there is no reason to cancel the project.

The word "cancel" is probably misleading. The intention is most likely to complete the 2x Gremyashchy vessels with domestic equivalents of the originally intended foreign components (whatever they are), and then develop a follow-on class where the design is reworked to optimise it for those domestic equivalents, a Gremyashchy Mk II if you will. The need for a further development of the Stereguschy doesn't simply evaporate...

Nice find Zivo +

Big_Gazza wrote:The word "cancel" is probably misleading.  The intention is most likely to complete the 2x Gremyashchy vessels with domestic equivalents of the originally intended foreign components (whatever they are), and then develop a follow-on class where the design is reworked to optimise it for those domestic equivalents, a Gremyashchy Mk II if you will.  The need for a further development of the Stereguschy doesn't simply evaporate...

x2

Agreed

Big_Gazza wrote:

medo wrote:I wonder what foreign components, other than engines, those Gremyashchy corvettes use? Armament is domestic, radars, EW and communications are domestic. There is nothing there, they could not produce at home. Domestic engines will maybe take some time to be produced, but there is no reason to cancel the project.

The word "cancel" is probably misleading.  The intention is most likely to complete the 2x Gremyashchy vessels with domestic equivalents of the originally intended foreign components (whatever they are), and then develop a follow-on class where the design is reworked to optimise it for those domestic equivalents, a Gremyashchy Mk II if you will.  The need for a further development of the Stereguschy doesn't simply evaporate...

And this is a lost to Germany rather than to Russia. Domestic consumption of Germany weapons is very low due to the low military budget of Germany. So losing any foreign deal is a severe blow to German military industry.

And the result ? Anti-NATO, anti-Obama is increasing in the EU. EU knows that all these are due to the "sanction" initiated by the White House. And with the increase of anti-Obama in EU, well, the day that NATO disintegrate will not be very far.

When you have a break from developing and making things for 10-15 years it is not easy to just jump straight back into production like nothing happened.

If you want to entertain your children or yourself you don't get the set square out and the pencil and develop a new gaming machine... you look at what is available and how much it costs.

If you decide that buying Ukrainian parts is no easier than buying from any other foreign country then the germans do make good engines and if you were going to buy foreign engines anyway why not buy German instead of unreliable Ukrainian.

Same applied to night optics... why buy expensive ex soviet thermal imagers from belarus, when French thermals are far superior in terms of performance and resolution despite being only slightly more expensive.

Obviously the problem is created when you import German diesels and their government imposes sanctions... when you have licence production of French thermals however things are rather easier, though more expensive than just buying off the shelf...

And this is a lost to Germany rather than to Russia.

Ironic that the German worker probably would appreciate the work, while the Russian worker is already busy and this will just delay other projects to make these engines too...

Russia Has Technology to Build Equivalent of Mistral Helicopter Carrier

Russia possesses the necessary technology to build helicopter carriers similar to the French-made Mistral-class ships, Russian presidential aide Vladimir Kozhin said.

"We have such capacity, no problems. If we extremely need it, we will build this ship. Now everything is changing rapidly, and for us [the delivery of Mistrals] is not so crucial. If they are not delivered, our defense potential will not sharply decrease."

Russian President Vladimir Putin said during his annual Q&A session last month that refusal to deliver Mistrals did not affect Russian defense capabilities in a negative way adding that "the contract has been first of all aimed at "supporting our [French] partners and assuring that their shipyards are busy."

Russia and France signed a $1.3 billion deal for two Mistral-class ships in 2011. The handover of the first vessel was scheduled for November 2014, but French President Francois Hollande put the delivery on hold over Moscow's alleged role in the Ukrainian crisis, a claim denied by the Kremlin.

Meanwhile, the upkeep and maintenance costs for the two ships will cost French taxpayers €5 million per month. Paris considered dismantling the two Mistral ships, commissioned by Russia, or selling them to a third party, French media reported.

Earlier in May, Russian newspaper Kommersant reported that Paris had proposed to terminate the contract, offering to pay some 785 million euros ($865 million) back, on condition that Russia allows France to sell the ships to a third party. Moscow, reportedly, denied the offer, since the costs and losses Russia associated with the breach of the contract are currently estimated at about 1.163 billion euros.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20150521/1022415089.html#ixzz3ao7AGYZJ

Rus. Navy ships may receive electrical propulsion system of Russian production - said the head of the United shipbuilding Corporation Alexey Rakhmanov

Currently on most warships, the transmission of power from the engine to the propeller shaft is via a gearbox. In the electrical propulsion system, electric power will power the engine and rotate the propellers.

The obvious advantage of such a system for warships is the ability to quickly change the speed of propeller rotation and the ships direction, and consequently resulting in a higher acceleration and maneuverability of the ship. In addition, the implementation of the principle of electrical propulsion allows for freer layout of the ship in the sense of the location of the main power plant.



The use of electrical propulsion system is being considered as a auxilary system to the main propulsion system in the design of the prospective destroyers

http://flotprom.ru/2015/%D0%92%D0%BC%D1%8437/

Cyberspec wrote:Rus. Navy ships may receive electrical propulsion system of Russian production - said the head of the United shipbuilding Corporation Alexey Rakhmanov

Currently on most warships, the transmission of power from the engine to the propeller shaft is via a gearbox. In the electrical propulsion system, electric power will power the engine and rotate the propellers.

The obvious advantage of such a system for warships is the ability to quickly change the speed of propeller rotation and the ships direction, and consequently resulting in a higher acceleration and maneuverability of the ship. In addition, the implementation of the principle of electrical propulsion allows for freer layout of the ship in the sense of the location of the main power plant.



The use of electrical propulsion system is being considered as a auxilary system to the main propulsion system in the design of the prospective destroyers

http://flotprom.ru/2015/%D0%92%D0%BC%D1%8437/

Damn good news. I wonder what made them wait so long. Less wight and noise, no mechanical energy converters. Just raw power cables and engine.

Electrical drive instead of gas turbines is definitely breakthrough idea. One nuclear reactor just feeds all electrical drives. including deck rail guns

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Cyberspec wrote:Rus. Navy ships may receive electrical propulsion system of Russian production - said the head of the United shipbuilding Corporation Alexey Rakhmanov

Currently on most warships, the transmission of power from the engine to the propeller shaft is via a gearbox. In the electrical propulsion system, electric power will power the engine and rotate the propellers.

The obvious advantage of such a system for warships is the ability to quickly change the speed of propeller rotation and the ships direction, and consequently resulting in a higher acceleration and maneuverability of the ship. In addition, the implementation of the principle of electrical propulsion allows for freer layout of the ship in the sense of the location of the main power plant.



The use of electrical propulsion system is being considered as a auxilary system to the main propulsion system in the design of the prospective destroyers

http://flotprom.ru/2015/%D0%92%D0%BC%D1%8437/

Damn good news. I wonder what made them wait so long. Less wight and noise, no mechanical energy converters. Just raw power cables and engine.

Electrical drive instead of gas turbines is definitely breakthrough idea. One nuclear reactor just feeds all electrical drives. including deck rail guns

Of course you would still have mechanical energy converters - they're called electric engines; they convert elecricity back into mechanical power.

For those ships that are too small for nuclear reactors - gas turbines are still going to be used; only for generating elecricity rather than powering propellers directly via mechanical transmissions. Which is something they're better at anyway; gas turbines are most efficient when operating at constant high-loads; which will be just fine for generating electric power and charging accumulators/batteries.

I'm also surprised they haven't done this earlier.
Diesel-electric transmission for trains has been the norm for decades now - where the diesel engine doesn't provide locomotion directly; but is used for generating power that the smaller electric motors slaved to each axel use in order to actually propel the train.

victor1985 wrote:How nice would be to put a railgun on submarines...they could hit ships...
And maibe could find a way to shoot in water....maibe faster new torpedo will apear

The problem with firing a railgun from a sub is that it would instantly give away the sub's position; as well as its depth, bearing, inclination, etc...

Uber-bad idea.

victor1985 wrote:How nice would be to put a railgun on submarines...they could hit ships...
And maibe could find a way to shoot in water....maibe faster new torpedo will apear

bad idea- you can only fire above water. try to do it underwater and a nice s/c will fck your railgun up. bonus points for that massive current being dumped into water producing impressive amounts of steam, oxygen and hydrogen in record time that it will fck up your sub too when the mix blows up.

Russian Navy to receive 50 ships in 2015 of which 11 are for the Black Sea;
https://defencerussia.wordpress.com/2015/06/01/russian-navy-to-receive-more-than-50-ships-of-various-classes-in-2015/

"Dagdizel" has begun to develop high-precision underwater weapons

MOSCOW, Jun 2, — RIA Novosti. Specialists of the plant "Dagdizel" (Kaspiysk) began development of a precision underwater weapons, told RIA Novosti on Tuesday, the chief designer of the enterprise, the first Chairman of the Russian scientific Council on torpedoman academician Shamil Aliyev, without specifying because of the secrecy, which is a weapon.
This information he reported on the meeting with Deputy Minister of defense of Russia Yuri Borisov, the General Director of Corporation "Tactical missile armament" Victor Obnosov and management of the concern "Sea underwater weapon — Gidropribor, who last week called for "Dagdizel".
"We have reported that the plant is a further development of the problem of vysokotochnoi of Russian weapons, including underwater. In addition, the guests were informed about the approaches to establishing objectives for reliability, performance and noise immunity of underwater weapons," — said Aliyev.
He also said that in 2016 in St. Petersburg it is planned to conduct the first scientific conference on ideology torpedo weapons.
Previously Aliyev said RIA Novosti that the main task of the Russian torpedoman at this stage is equipped with the latest in underwater weapons of artificial intelligence. The latest Russian torpedoes will be equipped with a digital information management system that will allow this weapon to combine the functions of a scout, observer and means of the direct impact, said Aliyev.

So life after Fizik? I wonder what else above underwater robots and torpedoes you can think off? In every case good news

Based on this photo below, and the fact that Ivan Gren has a telescopic hangar...



...is this possible?

With wings and rotors folded the Kamov is a very compact helo and could potentially be stored side by side...

Not sure why this boat is being produced as well as the Raptor but the second vessel has been launched;

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1330627.html

It is being produced to give the shipyard something to do within its capabilities.

I came across this article from VICE where an american writer was talking about Chinese scientists have newly developed "lubricant" or a "liquid membrane" as they call it. By controlling the spread of this membrane they expect to control the bubble shape, thus control the steering. He linked it as China's Newest SUB: Supersonic Underwater and called it bullshit .


Read his views on Shkval and let me know is it true or just another military expert poser from american basements .


Cavitation is either bad news, very bad news, or totally awesome news — it all depends on what you're up to. First, the bad news. When moving parts — like a propeller — cause cavitation, the microjets caused by the collapsing bubbles can do a fair amount of damage, even to metal surfaces, tearing up equipment something fierce. (This is also the phenomenon in play when something is cleaned "ultrasonically." But in ultrasonic cleaning, the idea is that the microjets are powerful enough to knock off the munge, but not so powerful that they damage the thing being cleaned.)


The very bad news is that the shockwave from a collapsing bubble is noisy. While that's not a concern for some, it's a huge concern for people who spend all of their time trying to be sneaky by hiding in vast quantities of saltwater — sailors on military submarines, for instance. Noisiness is considered worse than physical damage and gets rated as very bad news here because I write about defense issues, not industrial processes. (That said, sub skippers certainly don't want their propellers damaged.)



The theoretically totally awesome news is that if you move something through the water fast enough, the bubble created by cavitation gets enormously large, and it really starts to cut down on the drag experienced by the vessel. Do it fast enough — you can also emit a little bit of gas from the nose of a fast-moving object to create or enlarge a bubble — and the bubble envelops and becomes larger than the object moving through the water. Voilà — supercavitation!

This means the object underwater has no contact with any liquid except for a tiny little area at the front where the bubble is being created. It also means (almost) no hydrodynamic drag is produced, which is basically a license to go mind-blowingly fast.

What the fine folks at Harbin have figured out how to do is reduce the speed at which an object can start supercavitating. By spooing out liquid from the front of a vessel — say, a submarine — they can theoretically get supercavitation to occur at speeds as low as 45 mph.

This revelation has inspired people to daydream about sailing submarines around the world at a zillion miles per hour as supercavitating angels descend from heaven to sing the praises of supercavitation and a new utopian era is ushered in.

Sadly, all of this — supersonic submarines and supercavitating angels — is, from a technical engineering point of view, complete bullshit.


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The Russians have been doing some leading-edge research to make hella fast torpedoes, because if a torpedo is screaming toward its target at hundreds of miles per hour, there's really no evasive maneuver in the world that will help the target ship. The Russian Shkvall torpedo plows through the water at a brisk 230 mph.

Sounds amazing. But remember: Supercavitation is astonishingly loud. That's why the Shkvall is basically a revenge weapon. If you're not about to die before you launch one, you'll die shortly thereafter because everyone else within 1,000 miles will know you're there the minute you launch the weapon. (In addition, the Shkvall has other practical limitations when it comes to range and guidance.) So a supercavitating torpedo is all about going out in a blaze of glory — firing it when you know you're already dead.

There's one thing that would be even louder than a supercavitating torpedo, and that is a supercavitating submarine. In fact, it might as well tweet its position and heading, and send out e-vites to enemy torpedoes. That's why submariners, who try to be the ninjas of the sea, generally believe that a supercavitating submarine is totally insane.


There's a final problem with zipping around at a few hundred miles per hour in a supercavitating sub: You can't tell what's in front of you. Sonar is more or less out of the question in part because of all the noise you're already making. The Shkvall torpedo can be steered because it gets guidance signals through a wire connected to the submarine that fired it, but unspooling a 6,000-mile-long wire while traveling hundreds — or thousands! — of miles per hour across an entire ocean is… well, let's just say it's not currently feasible. So a supersonic submarine crossing an entire ocean at thousands of miles per hour is basically just a gigantic underwater harpoon looking for a whale or ship or Great Pacific garbage patch to ram.





https://news.vice.com/article/all-about-the-pacific-oceans-newest-sub-supersonic-underwater-bullshit