Russian Navy: Status & News #3

KiloGolf wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:And I am sure that Kilo can make you a custom General version of the badge

presenteth thee with the 4-star Generalisimo's badge



@Militarov intoxicate responsibly

Not bad, i like the camo touch

Tsavo Lion wrote:

All the talk about Russian military finances is basically hot air. The Chinese natural gas pipeline and several Russian LNG, natural gas, and oil projects will start increasing production over coming years. Unless the energy market collapses, the Russians will be in better financial situation in the future. The Russian nuclear forces moderization should be completed will before 2025. http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/navy-maritime/russian-navy-discussions-updates-8178-78/#post327099

Fixing the fleet: The new infrastructure of the Russian Navy https://www.rbth.com/defence/2016/06/13/fixing-the-fleet-the-new-infrastructure-of-the-russian-navy_602403
The infrastructure will be definitely ready by the time the 1st new a/c carrier/TAKR built.
RF to open new nav. base in B. Sea to counter NATO by the end of 2020 https://www.rbth.com/defence/2016/06/29/russia-to-open-new-naval-base-in-black-sea-to-counter-nato_607229
https://sputniknews.com/russia/201607281043700718-russia-novorossiysk-naval-base/
That'll free up some space in Sevastopol for Adm.K (with Draught 11m; discussed earlier) & other TAKRs. The Azov Sea may also be used for their basing/training, if the new bridge is high enough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuznetsov-class_aircraft_carrier
http://www.mapofukraine.net/map/azov_sea_map.gif
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_of_Azov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerch_Strait_Bridge#Design_of_the_planned_bridge

The Admiral Kuznetsov wont go through the black sea.  Instead, it is based off of the Baltic.  With their proposed new base on Kurils and then the baltic, yes, they can support it there.  Most people forget that Russia can build a small carrier at the St.Petersburg plant, but not super carrier.  The larger ships will be built most likely at Zvezda plant when it is operational in 2019.

The debate here is pointless because the Russians already stated their need for an Aircraft carrier.  The rest here are simply couch commando's like you and I.  So far, the Russians are doing exactly what they need to and have pumped out a lot in import substitution quicker than most here would like to admit. Will it be a super carrier or a small carrier? My bet is more closer to a smaller carrier than a large one. But I am only guessing on that due to the need vs not (Russia is a land and air based power, not so much navy). In the end, the need will be basic, much like the need to have helicopter carriers.

And fact is that from financial standpoint Navy can choose to purchase one of two things:

A) One supercarrier, aircraft not included

B) One brand new Pacific Fleet, submarines included, probably couple of helicopter carriers as gravy

What would you choose?

Except that it is an artificial situation that you have created.

For Russian military from an financial standpoint having and air force is very expensive... you can have an air force or you could have a brand new army in all four new regions of the Russian federation.

Except of course that is bullshit too.

They could easily afford 3-4 moderate sized carriers and the aircraft to fly from them as well as upgrading all their fleets over time.

Their future navy will be rather smaller than the Soviet Navy but will be much more powerful and better armed and equipped.

Aircraft carriers will be part of that.

Russia at this time will favor submarines and small surface ships right now over a carrier.

Of course they will go out and immediately buy ten super carriers right now.

Shame people are stupid and can't read.

Air power is a requirement for any modern Navy and as such will be a requirement of the future Russian Navy.

It will take 15 years to build and to get operational their first large carrier so any talk of anything sooner is BS.

BECAUSE it will take 15 years to plan and prepare for all the BS about lack of infrastructure and support now is just that... BS.

In the 15 or so years it will take to get a large carrier operational they will have plenty of time to develop all the other components they will need to make it work... support ships, infrastructure, aircraft types, etc.

I have no clue why some people here insist Russia has the funds to build the thing.

They don't need the funds now... the costs are spread over two decades...

Fact is they cannot even properly base the Kuz,

Now you are just being a dick.

Has the Kuz been based in the US at a proper navy base all this time?

Now they have two training bases for carrier aircraft... do you think that was for nothing?

Your insane if you think you can just build a Super AC and that's it....honestly have no clue on how that stuff works but hey that's alright.

When it takes 15 years to make don't you think it also takes a lot of preparation and planning... when do you think all that takes place.

Look at the budgets for the Russian Navy at the moment... they include funding to look into building new carriers.

They have new NPPs for new carriers.

They are planning naval models of the PAK FA and there is talk of a new light 5th gen fighter with potential naval applications.

This all points to the potential for new large carriers.

I am not talking Super carriers... only the homo loving US can have SUUPPPER Carriers.... you know... to fuck third world countries into submission... In the real world it is an air cover carrier to support naval forces.

Same here, highly depends on thread how ppl threat you. Its basically unpopular to be critic of anything that comes from Motherland

Claiming they wont be making large ships because they can't source quality steel is insulting. Do you think the Russians are idiots?

Don't answer that, the question alone shows you why you sometimes get the responses you get.

But I am only guessing on that due to the need vs not (Russia is a land and air based power, not so much navy).

Using that logic how do you explain the UK... it became a super power because of its navy... it did not become a global power and then build a powerful naval fleet...

Now it is a shadow... a lap dog to the US... Hopefully leaving the EU it will find its feet and its balls again and start to matter again in the world... But I am not holding my breath... especially as the US wont want to let that happen either.

Militarov wrote:I am even skeptical about production of marine grade steel of such quantity and quality in Russia at this moment, judging by problems recent submarine projects had due to steelworks underperfoming and overpicing their products.

Militarov wrote:No, i am talking about steel. I linked a year ago or so article about issues regarding marine grade steel production in Russia. As steelworks refuse to produce fairly small amounts Russian shipyards require for the price state is offering to pay as they claim such production is not profitable for them in any way

Militarov wrote:Also some batches of that steel werent of adequate quality, that being one of reasons why Russia obtained fairly significant amounts of marine grade steel from South Korea though years.

I image you would mean high-tensile corrosive resistant steel.


Well i would read this article that you have mentioned, because i have the feeling that you have confused the problem of the flooding in the market of very cheap low-grade steel by part of Korean and Turkish firms ( a problem that has hit much harder European and ,even more, US corporations of the sector) with production of military shipbuilding high-tensile alloy steel.


You well know ,i image, that the performance level (for tensile strength, plasticity, weldability, and salt and cold resistance ) of domestic Federation synthesis of HTS was always historically and is still today totally unmatched at world level; with the technological gap with foreign firms even fast widening, with the design and production of new nitrogenic steel by part of ЦНИИ КМ "Прометей", therefore Federation Navy couldn't import military grade steel from foreign firms simply because they cannot offer nothing today even at the level of half of '80 years domestically, simple like that  


Just for a clear comparison with some often cited over ocean corresponding products : a Virginia submarine is made today with HY-80 HTS steel (with an yield stregth of 550 MPa) that is inferior to the 1954 "Прометей" designed AK-25 (580 MPa and incomparably better weldability and plasticity) !


Even the other mostly used over ocean high stength steel alloy HY-100 (yield strength of 690 MPa ) is not competitive with 1972 synthetised AK-33 - used ,at example, for pr.949, 949A  (yield strength of 785 MPa) or AK-32, used for pr. 971, (yield strength of 985 MPa).


Even theirs most advanced effectively synthetised high tensile strength steel alloy product , having practically not achieved any real military production employment, the HY-130 (yield strength of 896 MPa) is terribly obsolete and underperforming not only against the cited AK-32 but against the more modern AK-34 ( yield strength of 1177 MPa ) or latest AK-35 and AK-36 (classified, but from projection superior to 1300 MPa).


As you can realize to create surface ships or submarines of marine grade steel incomparably superior to those of the most up-to-date surface and under-surface units now in water or in construction by part of over ocean companies, domestic manufacturers could employ old reserve stocks, in air-proof sealed sites, of Ak-32 and AB-2 steel.


The problem is only that this kind of product, for its physical characteristics crushingly superior to those employed today by foreign shipbuilding industry, is evaluated terribly obsolete by domestic standard.

@Garry

The kuz is always anchored off the coast of the base, so yes my statement is accurate, you may find it to be a "dick" of a statement but they have no docks suitable for it.

They have in the past tried putting her up in small docks not suited for the ship and it didn't really work out.



It will not take them 15 years to get up the infrastructure for a carrier of that size, Where the hell did I ever claim it would take them 15 years to do just that?. Do be putting words in my mouth man you have done this before and I didn't like it then. Also I'd say they will have it done in maybe 10 years, I man 15 is possible don't get me wrong

I said they currently do not have the support tools and infrastructure for a supercarrier and they do not, that is not BS. They have nothing they need for a supercarrier right now.

Sorry if you do not like that, I am just saying whats the case.

They are currently expanding docks, they are currently building up other support facilities. None of this is done yet however and won't be for a very very very long time we are talking well over five years and when they are I will be the first to say "okay now Russia has part of what they need for it".

Also ten carriers....Again where did I EVER say Russia needs 10 carriers. They do not, they need just four. Russia is a landlocked power, my country needs a large navy due to our location on the map and to be honestly anyone who says Russia needs 10 carriers like the United States has no dam clue what Geography is.


The cost of building a supercarrier isn't just the carrier...It's a whole ton of other stuff also again. A SUPERCARRIER DOES NOT EXIST ON IT'S OWN.




They have plans, plans in the grand schemes mean little when those plans start to turn into real things that is a different story. so far the only official statement released was they will have the plans for the ship done by 2025.

Russia has stated they want the Storm and so far data supports this so you may not like this fact but they are planning for supercarriers, if you have evidence they are going for smaller AC's, by all means, share it here with us.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:@Garry

The kuz is always anchored off the coast of the base, so yes my statement is accurate, you may find it to be a "dick" of a statement but they have no docks suitable for it.

They have in the past tried putting her up in small docks not suited for the ship and it didn't really work out.



It will not take them 15 years to get up the infrastructure for a carrier of that size, Where the hell did I ever claim it would take them 15 years to do just that?. Do be putting words in my mouth man you have done this before and I didn't like it then. Also I'd say they will have it done in maybe 10 years, I man 15 is possible don't get me wrong

I said they currently do not have the support tools and infrastructure for a supercarrier and they do not, that is not BS. They have nothing they need for a supercarrier right now.

Sorry if you do not like that, I am just saying whats the case.

They are currently expanding docks, they are currently building up other support facilities. None of this is done yet however and won't be for a very very very long time we are talking well over five years and when they are I will be the first to say "okay now Russia has part of what they need for it".

Also ten carriers....Again where did I EVER say Russia needs 10 carriers. They do not, they need just four. Russia is a landlocked power, my country needs a large navy due to our location on the map and to be honestly anyone who says Russia needs 10 carriers like the United States has no dam clue what Geography is.


The cost of building a supercarrier isn't just the carrier...It's a whole ton of other stuff also again. A SUPERCARRIER DOES NOT EXIST ON IT'S OWN.




They have plans, plans in the grand schemes mean little when those plans start to turn into real things that is a different story. so far the only official statement released was they will have the plans for the ship done by 2025.

Russia has stated they want the Storm and so far data supports this so you may not like this fact but they are planning for supercarriers, if you have evidence they are going for smaller AC's, by all means, share it here with us.

Take the insignia man, you too, like your friends )

Oh do you want an Armchair general badge then

miketheterrible wrote:The Admiral Kuznetsov wont go through the black sea.  Instead, it is based off of the Baltic.  With their proposed new base on Kurils and then the baltic, yes, they can support it there.

It's now based on the Barentz Sea, the Baltic Sea straits & Kiel Canal are controlled by Denmark, Sweden & Germany, leading to NATO's North Sea- only an idiot will base Adm.K there.

..most large, modern cruise ships cannot pass through this canal due to clearance limits under bridges,..https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiel_Canal#Operation

The Kurils are too small & exposed; Petropavlovsk in Kamchatka, Sakhalin island & Vladivostok are ideal bases for future carriers.

Folks, pl. use PM about badges!

SeigSoloyvov wrote:@Garry

The kuz is always anchored off the coast of the base, so yes my statement is accurate, you may find it to be a "dick" of a statement but they have no docks suitable for it.

They have in the past tried putting her up in small docks not suited for the ship and it didn't really work out.



It will not take them 15 years to get up the infrastructure for a carrier of that size, Where the hell did I ever claim it would take them 15 years to do just that?. Do be putting words in my mouth man you have done this before and I didn't like it then. Also I'd say they will have it done in maybe 10 years, I man 15 is possible don't get me wrong

I said they currently do not have the support tools and infrastructure for a supercarrier and they do not, that is not BS. They have nothing they need for a supercarrier right now.

Sorry if you do not like that, I am just saying whats the case.

They are currently expanding docks, they are currently building up other support facilities. None of this is done yet however and won't be for a very very very long time we are talking well over five years and when they are I will be the first to say "okay now Russia has part of what they need for it".

Also ten carriers....Again where did I EVER say Russia needs 10 carriers. They do not, they need just four. Russia is a landlocked power, my country needs a large navy due to our location on the map and to be honestly anyone who says Russia needs 10 carriers like the United States has no dam clue what Geography is.


The cost of building a supercarrier isn't just the carrier...It's a whole ton of other stuff also again. A SUPERCARRIER DOES NOT EXIST ON IT'S OWN.




They have plans, plans in the grand schemes mean little when those plans start to turn into real things that is a different story. so far the only official statement released was they will have the plans for the ship done by 2025.

Russia has stated they want the Storm and so far data supports this so you may not like this fact but they are planning for supercarriers, if you have evidence they are going for smaller AC's, by all means, share it here with us.

*cough*retard*cough* oh excuse me.

http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/zvezda-shipbuilding-complex-bolshoi-kamen/

So how is that

very very very long time

working for you?

Save it liar.

Lets see. Its 2019 when completed, 2017 right now. Is that 5 years?

BTW, explain how they finished the Indian carrier if it couldn't be docked? Are you trying to tell us the kind of sized ship was worked on wasn't done at a shipyard? Wowee.

Regardless, your info is quite wrong. And I will be glad when zvezda shipyard is done so we can lay to rest the "they don't have a large shipyard to do it".

Okay Mike buddy....tell me where in my statement did I say "Russia will not have a shipyard capable of building a supercarrier in five years"

I did not say that, you are an asshole and are inserting words into my mouth, only the second phase will be done by 2019, when they complete the third phase which won't be in five years they will then have a capable shipyard for building a supercarrier.

so you got your own information wrong.

You are delusional and I mean this whole heartfully if you think all you need is a shipyard for a supercarrier that is one part of the infrastructure you need. It's beyond words at times with guys like you it really is.

You call me a retard and lair....off something I never even said. You got a real rotten personality man and that's coming from an American and you hear the stories of the shit we do.

They raised the ship out of the water btw to do the extensive work.

you just reacted like a child because someone said something you don't like grow up kid and do me a favor do not respond to me in the future over anything appreciate it. I got no time for children.

Read the Fucking article dipshit.

Expansion completion is 2019. Because shipyard already existed. This is 1 extension.

Fuck. I don't know why I bother arguing with people like you. Guess it just riles me up.

The SECOND PHASE of the expansion. There are three stages of expansion for the shipyard the third should be done by 2021 if they work fast.

They can build smaller ships once stage two is finished.

They are planning to do so in 2019.

The third stage is everything they need for 100k ton vessels.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:The SECOND PHASE of the expansion. There are three stages of expansion for the shipyard the third should be done by 2021 if they work fast.

They can build smaller ships once stage two is finished.

They are planning to do so in 2019.

The third stage is everything they need for 100k ton vessels.

Alright, last time I post regarding this.

http://dcss.ru/en/projects/construction-of-zvezda-shipbuilding-complex.html

By 2019, if you are not dead in Syria or whatever you claim and we are still here, then we can discuss it.

Russia cannot into shipbuilding like Polan cannot into space.

LOL.

miketheterrible wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:........

........
By 2019, if you are not dead in Syria or whatever you claim and we are still here, then we can discuss it.

You do realize you just gave him extra motivation to not die in Syria?

PapaDragon wrote:

miketheterrible wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:........

........
By 2019, if you are not dead in Syria or whatever you claim and we are still here, then we can discuss it.

You do realize you just gave him extra motivation to not die in Syria?

Good. I don't actually want him to die. I may be an asshole but I am not THAT much of one. I may give the impression and may say I don't care if he does or doesn't, but I will be serious in saying that I don't wish it upon him.

Plus I will enjoy the debate next time, even if he may not.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Oh do you want an Armchair general badge then

You deserve it, is a nice award for you.

True intoxicators deserve field decoration.

miketheterrible wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:The SECOND PHASE of the expansion. There are three stages of expansion for the shipyard the third should be done by 2021 if they work fast.

They can build smaller ships once stage two is finished.

They are planning to do so in 2019.

The third stage is everything they need for 100k ton vessels.

Alright, last time I post regarding this.

http://dcss.ru/en/projects/construction-of-zvezda-shipbuilding-complex.html

By 2019, if you are not dead in Syria or whatever you claim and we are still here, then we can discuss it.

I was about to post the same link, that is the official information, and it says clearly. Duration of the reform 2010-2018. Bad surprises for the intoxicators.

The Zvezda shipyard is far more advanced than what they wish. According to the contracts the shipyard will have all the cranes this year (at this point 4 of 5 delivered).

http://www.heavyliftnews.com/news/unique-crane-equipment-delivered-to-zvezda-shipbuilding-complex

By 2019 not only will be ready, 2019 is the timeline to finnish the pilot ship, that the shipyard is building since 2016. For intoxicators, pilot unit means the first, then obviously is built in the new part of the shipyard.

Then, 2019 can be perfectly the year of the begin of the production of the new Project 23000 aircraft carrier. The shipyard is coming Just In Time for the data when the final design of the Project 23000 is totally completed.

The kuz is always anchored off the coast of the base, so yes my statement is accurate, you may find it to be a "dick" of a statement but they have no docks suitable for it.

"no docks suitable" would be a fairly ignorant statement... do they do upgrades at sea?

They have in the past tried putting her up in small docks not suited for the ship and it didn't really work out.

So they have no suitable docks but they have used docks in the past?

Sounds like something a dick would say.

Kirov class vessels are of a very similar size to the kuznetsov, are you saying they can't dock those either?

It will not take them 15 years to get up the infrastructure for a carrier of that size, Where the hell did I ever claim it would take them 15 years to do just that?. Do be putting words in my mouth man you have done this before and I didn't like it then. Also I'd say they will have it done in maybe 10 years, I man 15 is possible don't get me wrong

You said:

Fact is they cannot even properly base the Kuz, They lack support infrastructure and everything else they need for a Super carrier and all that alone will add on tens of Billions of dollars.

To which I replied it will take them 15 years to build and get operational new carriers... super or otherwise... which is plenty of time to upgrade the northern and pacific fleet bases to operate such vessels.

It makes no sense to spend billions of dollars upgrading either the northern fleet base or the pacific fleet base or both to operate the K from when the situation might change for a dozen different reasons and the vessel moved... it makes no sense to upgrade both bases just to get the choice of basing it in either place as needed.

When plans are to build several new carriers and base them in both areas then upgrades make sense.

I said they currently do not have the support tools and infrastructure for a supercarrier and they do not, that is not BS. They have nothing they need for a supercarrier right now.

They have the Kuznetsov and have been using her fine... why do you think an 80K ton carrier will suddenly require all new support that a 60K ton vessel can get by without?

Especially when that 80K ton carrier will likely be nuke powered...

Sorry if you do not like that, I am just saying whats the case.

You can say anything you like is the case... has no effect on what I like or believe to be true.

They are currently expanding docks, they are currently building up other support facilities. None of this is done yet however and won't be for a very very very long time we are talking well over five years and when they are I will be the first to say "okay now Russia has part of what they need for it".

I doubt they will notice your comment, but I am sure you will say you were saying for months that they were going to develop super carriers...

Also ten carriers....Again where did I EVER say Russia needs 10 carriers. They do not, they need just four. Russia is a landlocked power, my country needs a large navy due to our location on the map and to be honestly anyone who says Russia needs 10 carriers like the United States has no dam clue what Geography is.

Americas geography has nothing to do with its need for carriers... they need carriers to be the imperial leader of the world and to bully anyone who resists... for big countries like Russia and China the carriers are not used... they use sanctions... for smaller countries like Afghanistan or Iraq or Serbia then the carriers are a part of the instrument that bludgeons the small and the weak into conformity... it is all very democratic and peace loving when you read the final entry in the historical documents.

The cost of building a supercarrier isn't just the carrier...It's a whole ton of other stuff also again. A SUPERCARRIER DOES NOT EXIST ON IT'S OWN.

Now you tell me... I thought it was all about building a 150K ton vessel so I could go on the internet and brag about how Russia has the most powerful ship in the world... thanks a heap for the heads up.

Russia has stated they want the Storm and so far data supports this so you may not like this fact but they are planning for supercarriers, if you have evidence they are going for smaller AC's, by all means, share it here with us.

Wow... so you do sometimes listen to what I say, yet you seem perfectly capable of ignoring all the rest... half of which you repeated in this post I am quoting you from...

Finnish company Konecranes will supply 15 tailor-made cranes with automatic mode, each capable of hoisting 120t, to the shipbuilding complex. The cranes will primarily be CXT and SMARTON cranes.

Ohh... nooo... Milis going to be pissed...

And according to this 2011 link it was supposed to be finished by 2018, so I would suspect 2019 is the finish time of the project now rather than the end of phase 2...

http://dcss.ru/en/projects/construction-of-zvezda-shipbuilding-complex.html

Russian and Chinese fleets exercise together in the Baltic Sea
http://www.pravdareport.com/news/world/europe/12-07-2017/138150-russia_china_baltic-0/
I won't be surprised if they do the same in the Barents & Bering Seas!
Bad news for NATO & Japan- their helping each other will negate any shortages each of them may have in different maritime theaters.

GarryB wrote:

Finnish company Konecranes will supply 15 tailor-made cranes with automatic mode, each capable of hoisting 120t, to the shipbuilding complex. The cranes will primarily be CXT and SMARTON cranes.

Ohh... nooo... Milis going to be pissed...

And according to this 2011 link it was supposed to be finished by 2018, so I would suspect 2019 is the finish time of the project now rather than the end of phase 2...

http://dcss.ru/en/projects/construction-of-zvezda-shipbuilding-complex.html

I am not happy if that is what you mean. But these are cranes of abit different class to ones i had in mind.

But yet again that was not unavailable technology to Russia. There were even 2000+ t cranes built by domestic companies not that long ago, some 20 years. But oh well.

Militarov can you repost the article you have alluded to in the post n 486 ?



Do you see , in post 529 i have pointed out the huge technological edge that domestic material Science Institutes enjoy against all competitors worldwide ,including in HTS steel alloy for ships and submarines construction to the point that the best foreign products of the kind that domestic shipbuilding companies could procure abroad would not match domestic of beginning of '80 years.

Are sure you do not mean low-grade Fe-Mo stainless steel alloy of Korean and Turkish production inflating the market (above all US one) with unbeatably cheap products ?

Militarov wrote:

GarryB wrote:

Finnish company Konecranes will supply 15 tailor-made cranes with automatic mode, each capable of hoisting 120t, to the shipbuilding complex. The cranes will primarily be CXT and SMARTON cranes.

Ohh... nooo... Milis going to be pissed...

And according to this 2011 link it was supposed to be finished by 2018, so I would suspect 2019 is the finish time of the project now rather than the end of phase 2...

http://dcss.ru/en/projects/construction-of-zvezda-shipbuilding-complex.html

I am not happy if that is what you mean. But these are cranes of abit different class to ones i had in mind.

But yet again that was not unavailable technology to Russia. There were even 2000+ t cranes built by domestic companies not that long ago, some 20 years. But oh well.

You are expecting too much from them. During those 20 years Russia was in a very bad state. Actually the way Putin managed to get the situation better is pretty impressive. However their is no problem to buy from Finland as they will sell them oil and gas and get the money back home. It's not like they are buying from US. You can't just do everything by yourself. Even western countries don't produce everything, they also buy foreign stuff. At least they didn't buy some chinese bs that brock in two days.

Isos wrote:

Militarov wrote:

GarryB wrote:

Finnish company Konecranes will supply 15 tailor-made cranes with automatic mode, each capable of hoisting 120t, to the shipbuilding complex. The cranes will primarily be CXT and SMARTON cranes.

Ohh... nooo... Milis going to be pissed...

And according to this 2011 link it was supposed to be finished by 2018, so I would suspect 2019 is the finish time of the project now rather than the end of phase 2...

http://dcss.ru/en/projects/construction-of-zvezda-shipbuilding-complex.html

I am not happy if that is what you mean. But these are cranes of abit different class to ones i had in mind.

But yet again that was not unavailable technology to Russia. There were even 2000+ t cranes built by domestic companies not that long ago, some 20 years. But oh well.

You are expecting too much from them. During those 20 years Russia was in a very bad state. Actually the way Putin managed to get the situation better is pretty impressive. However their is no problem to buy from Finland as they will sell them oil and gas and get the money back home. It's not like they are buying from US. You can't just do everything by yourself. Even western countries don't produce everything, they also buy foreign stuff. At least they didn't buy some chinese bs that brock in two days.

From where comes this quote GarryB? I checked until the page 15 of this topic and I do not found it. Not the words and of course not who said it.

Finnish company Konecranes will supply 15 tailor-made cranes with automatic mode, each capable of hoisting 120t, to the shipbuilding complex. The cranes will primarily be CXT and SMARTON cranes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/6n2gu1/russian_navy_raises_two_us_sherman_tanks_from_the/

https://imgur.com/a/VZ05O#AizVpjc


Russian Navy recovering 2 M4 Shermans....

Interesting....

I heard that they are also going to Restore the Shermans?
From what i know they stored the shermans at the Nevsky Shipyard and is being worked on over there for now before being transferred elsewhere...

They should keep one in Russia for Kubinka or other museums and send the other one back to the US as a good will sign to their History/WW2 Community....