its already involved in a hybrid war; if they sent their tanks, they can send panes to help the rebels. We already discussed that, so pl. don't waste my time dismissing it.
No. You are claiming they sent a single BUK vehicle... That would be stupid because it is designed and intended to operate as a battery... a single BUK vehicle has a tracking radar and EO targeting but no search radar so finding targets would be a total pain in the ass because there is no search radar to tell the vehicle where to look so it would essentially have to look using its EO system, which on that model was non existent if I remember correctly... this is the SA-11... it is not SA-17.
And what planes have they sent to support the rebels... I am pretty sure the Ukraine would have loved for that to happen because they could then use their BUKs to shoot such planes down... like they did with this airliner.
I'm sure there was a reason to give them Buk- how about high flying US drones that regularly come there from Sicily?
The Americans have more drones than BUK has missiles.
That version of BUK would be useless against a high flying drone unless it had a search radar operating with it and there are no claims it did.
up to that point it didn't escalate to those altitudes- if they knew about the Buk in rebels' hands, those corridors above them would be closed.
They would know because of the amazing rebel operation deep into Ukrainian territory to capture one... surely...
Why risk a shootdown, lawsuits & intl. condemnation for not doing it, not to mention revenue losses?
Which begs the question why they had them there in the first place.... perhaps we will find a set of papers left at a british phone box that detail how UK intelligence thought it might be a good idea to shoot down a plane with foreigners in it to stir up the western world with a nice crime they can blame Russia for.
Wouldn't be the first time.
Polonium, novachok, Buk... athlete doping syndicate bullshit.
the rebels would shoot 1st & ask ?s later, to be safe
Bullshit. There were dozens of planes flying over that airspace every day... that plane was no surprise.
So far the word of the Ukraine has been bullshit, and it is them making all these accusations...
as they have no fighters of their own & been bombed by Ukr.
By that stage the Orcs had stopped bombing because they had lost too many aircraft, they limited themselves to shelling... for which a BUK TEL is useless.
The Buk crew could also be new to the area & not aware of the local conditions.
The Ukrainian BUK crew might have made a mistake which Kiev and London and Paris and Berlin and Brussels might have wanted to capitalise on which is why the story was so pathetic and fragmented.
A bit like the Novachok case in the UK... clearly a bungled attack by western security clumsily blamed on the Russians.
What evidence is there that the British Intel fabricated it?
Bellingcat is staffed by former British intel officers and its funded by the British government to do things the British don't want to be officially seen to be doing.... like getting dirt on Jeremy Corbin and creating anti Russian feeling at every opportunity.
the old Buk didn't cost them anything & big USAF UAVs r worthy targets, as Iran showed.
They only have four missiles on one TEL and once it is revealed they have it the Americans and Ukrainians and EU will try to hunt it down and neutralise it as quickly as possible.
One TEL on its own would be useless against high flying drones.
A newer model like the SA-17 or SA-25 would be excellent but that old model... nope.
no civ. plane was their intended target; it was a mistake they & Russia paid for dearly.
Russia does not realise it but it was the best thing to happen to Russia for quite a while.
The EU sanctions means Russia was able to ban EU food exports to Russia which gave the Russian food industry a chance to grow and develop without the fierce competition from established growers in the EU who already dominate their own market and wanted to flood the Russian market.
As you might have read in the agricultural thread desperate EU companies have had to open farms and production in Russia to bypass the laws which is even better...
I would say the only losers were the EU apple growers and their like who were making really good money till they lost the Russian market...
no, in such cases we check & leave no stone unturned,
You are not leaving no stone unturned... you aren't even looking down... you are taking what the west tells you and wagging your finger at these Ukrainians for being so naughty when it was Kievs Ukrainian Nazis that shot that plane down... and they get to be part of the investigation so they can destroy evidence and murder witnesses and generally tell lies.
they thought it was An-26 as phone/radio intercepts showed
Those intercepts were proven to be fabricated after the event.... just like Bell Ends photos of a BUK TEL sneaking back to Russia... with one missile missing...
& it tells how professional they r as the type can't fly that high & fast, or their radar wasn't working right.
Yeah, unprofessional idiots that kicked the arses of the Orcs for how long now? So the Orcs now resort to long range shelling instead of actual combat... if you want to know how professional the rebels are that alone tells you all you need to know.
they r smart enough to cooperate with investigations & not make things worse for themselves & Russia.
Make it worse? The west is the enemy, they are not looking for real evidence, they want something they can use to convict Putin personally of doing this...
by then Russia been sanctioned for years, so they knew it's not working, so killing their own people & blame Russia would only backfire on them, & that's why it doesn't make any sense.
Sanctions don't make sense... when they block Russia from accessing their products they force Russia to produce their own... and they take their time and use state of the art production equipment and modern methods to produce replacements that are often better than what they were buying from the west.... Which they can then sell to the rest of the world in competition to the western crap they bought before.
Sanctions means western companies lose a large customer, but in a couple of years will have to compete with a much cheaper product from Russia that might be adapted to Russian conditions which means it is probably better too and it will certainly be cheaper as well.
Sanctions never work but the people who apply them think they just weren't hard enough so next time they are slightly harder... but as they are applied they simply make Russia stronger by making her independent and also make her look to other places for trade and commerce... so you push them away... make them stronger... and weaken your own companies who lose good customers that paid their bills on time...
like dozens of other planes before, as u said, & immediately after- how far was it's route from the previous track? The Ukr. side could shoot it down 20-30miles away from that spot & still blame it on Russia.
Russia was always going to get the blame.... it just happened to be there that it happened.
u r delusional.
No, you are right... the reason Russia is so fucked up and backward is because Putin spends all his time watching court cases and making decisions because he is actually the only judge in Russia allowed to make any decisions that are binding. That is why Russia has a 24 trillion dollar debt and spend 800 billion a year on a bloated military that is bloody useless and does not protect Afghan women from Afghan men...
all that doesn't mean that Russia is heaven on Earth.
There is no such thing. The countries with the best standard of living stole it from someone else...
after several FSB apartment building explosions & resulting 2nd war in Chechnya which propelled Putin to where he is today. With his new Constitution, he can run for president 2 times more. It's a parody on democracy.
Putin was voted into power each time in a democratic election, the old constitution was written by fucking idiots who don't know what democracy is... in the US the two political parties are not choices because as we have seen... Obama and Trump and Biden and Clinton and the Bushes... they are all the same and have no real control of the country anyway... Trump went into power saying better relations with Russia and bringing home American troops from shitholes where America has no business in being there... but presidents don't command presidents don't rule.... it is the super rich in the west that dictate what is going to happen and you can't vote them out... there is no election for those assholes.
Bill Clinton was a common slut that couldn't keep his cock out of the women around him... if he was a woman there would be national condemnation and she would be called all sorts of terrible things like slut and whore, but because he is a man there is quiet admiration from most Americans... besides the economy was going well so who cares what he does?
Well guess what... the economy in Russia has been going just fine, so Putin gets re-elected... that IS democracy... the people voting for the best man for the job.
the area is small, so the frontline isn't too far from anywhere there; who knows, may be they were drunk on that day & didn't pay attention; after the accident, they tried to hide the fact that Buk was there.
Why make up shitty excuses that should pathetic and made up when the obvious questions are not answered or proven... there is no evidence the rebels did this, there is no evidence the rebels could have done this, there is clear evidence the Orcs had this model missile in the area the plane was shot down at the time it was shot down.... If the rebels captured one vehicle that means the Orcs still have five other TELs in the area.
The US lost all its radar recordings for that airspace for that time period... they lost them.... sounds like that video material from that Intruder aircraft that killed those people in that cable car... the radar signal from the BUK launch obviously came from an ORC BUK battery in ORC territory so once that was verified it was marked as lost and then destroyed.
I suspect they got it from Russia but declared it was captured from the Ukr. side.
Russia does not have these missiles in service.
They could be in a hurry & with no tarp at hand. Since they in the West can figure out what's inside boxes unloaded from planes & ships, from their dimensions alone, a tarp won't help- it's only good to hide things from the ground observers.
They have camouflaged covers for all sorts of equipment but they didn't have time to put any on. The west lost the radar tapes of the area at the time... there was no Russia BUK to camouflage and teh ORC BUK that shot the plane down didn't even enter rebel territory... Occams Razor... the simplest answer that explains everything is usually the most likely answer.
It would be moronic if Ukrainians assumed that there isn't going to be Russian SF, etc. & AF operating in & around rebel held Donbass.
That is very true, but why did they shoot down a civilian airliner and try to blame the rebels and Russia or that?
Analytical videos of what is happening in the country.
This shit is going to split it up even further...
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Helping them to legitimize
That actually will have been extremely convenient by the west , if they agree with cooperation and use Russia vaccine as booster shot , because later they can blame the russian booster for people heart attacks and blood cloths . 
