S-300P/400 News [Russian Strategic Air Defense] #3

Now it appears Russian AD will have 3 Interceptor that can take out a HGV flying at Hypersonic Speed

Medium Range 9M96E2 , Long Range 9M82MD (1) from S-300V4 and 40N6 of S-400 system

1 ) http://tass.com/defense/898884

All the three interceptor have sufficient long ranges and highly manouverable to take out Fast Moving , High Cross Range and Highly Manouverable HGV's

The rest of interceptor would still be capable of intercepting Aerodynamic Targets and Ballistic Missile of various ranges.

The ACE of Spade would be S-500 system.

on a German trailer?

A little show for the SAM enthusiast.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/6CRuWZ5hZis

"Deadly trick" for Moscow: new details of the "Rapid Global Impact". How not to step on the same rake?

https://topwar.ru/127311-smertelnaya-ulovka-dlya-moskvy-novye-detali-bystrogo-globalnogo-udara-kak-ne-nastupit-na-odni-i-te-zhe-grabli.html

"Prometheus" will cover Russia from NATO attacks from space

https://svpressa.ru/war21/article/184449/

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/2914426.html

The Ministry of Defense received the third regiment of the S-400 surface-to-air missile system in 2017
(the second in October and the third in 2017)

 It is known that the first regiment kit of the S-400 missile system under the state defense order of 2017 was placed in the 511th Guards air defense missile Smolensk Red Banner of the Order of Suvorov three times the Order of Kutuzov of the Order of Bogdan Khmelnitsky regiment (stationed in Engels, Saratov region) the composition of the 76th Air Defense Division of the 14th Air Force and Air Defense Army of the Central Military District

 The second set (two-divisional composition) of the S-400 SAM under the state defense order of 2017 was delivered in October to the 12th anti-aircraft missile regiment (Sevastopol stationed) of the 31st air defense division of the 4th Red Banner Army of the Air Force and Air Defense of the Southern Military District.

 So far, there have been no reports as to which units will be delivered to the third consignment of the S-400 SAM on the state defense order of 2017, as well as the fourth regiment planned for delivery by the end of the year.According to unofficial information, the two sets will be part of one of the anti-aircraft missile regiments of the 1st Air Defense Division of the 45th Air Force and Air Defense Army of the Northern Fleet and the 1533th Guards Anti-aircraft Missile Red Banner Regiment (deployed in Vladivostok) of the 93d Air Defense Division of the 11th Air Defense Division, th Red Banner Army Air Force and Air Defense of the Eastern Military District.

There are also reports of plans for the delivery in 2017 of at least one additional S-400 SAM battalion to the 18th Guards air defense missile Sevastopol-Theodosia regiment (stationed in Feodosia) of the 31st Air Defense Division of the 4th Red Banner Army of the Air Force and Air Defense of the Southern Military District which already has two S-400 SAM battalions since 2016) - possibly to start the formation of a group of S-400 SAM battalions to ensure the air defense of the Kerch bridge under construction.

In total, since the beginning of serial deliveries of S-400 (40P6) SAM systems, 19 regiment complete sets (total 39 or 40 divisions) have been supplied to the Air Force and Air Defense of Russia - one in 2011, two in 2012 and 2013, three in 2014 and 2015 years, five in 2016, and three already - in 2017. the pre-production set S-400 of the two-division structure was delivered in 2007-2009 to the 606th anti-aircraft missile regiment in Elektrostal (Moscow region), in 2015 one of the divisions of this set of the 606th regiment was transferred for training purposes in The 11th training center for anti-aircraft missile troops of the VKS (Gatchina, Leningrad region), and in return the regiment received a two-divisional S-400 SAM package for a new delivery of 2015.

They are getting them like breads in a bakery and countries like India or Turkey can't even decide if they should buy 2 or 4 of them because of the price.

Wouldn't it be better to get more fighters instead of hundreds of aair defence systems ?

Isos wrote:They are getting them like breads in a bakery and countries like India or Turkey can't even decide if they should buy 2 or 4 of them because of the price.

Wouldn't it be better to get more fighters instead of hundreds of aair defence systems ?

You need highly-trained pilots for fighters and for a huge country like Russia, it takes time to dispatch fighters to where are needed (assuming that they can be spared...). In wartime I would rather have a dense multi-layered SAM-based defense system ready to shoot down anything that didn't show as friendly on IFF, and locate then at (a) high value facilities/cities, and (b) to plug gaps in fighter-based AD coverage.

Isos wrote:They are getting them like breads in a bakery and countries like India or Turkey can't even decide if they should buy 2 or 4 of them because of the price.

Wouldn't it be better to get more fighters instead of hundreds of aair defence systems ?

These are orthogonal entities so your argument fails. Fighters can't carry ABM missiles. All the talk is about the S-500 being an ABM
system. In fact, the S-400 can be turned into one simply by using the same missiles. As posted above, there are already Mach 15
target interceptors in a small form factor. Cranking them up to Mach 25 target interceptors does not look like an impossibility to me.

kvs wrote:

Isos wrote:They are getting them like breads in a bakery and countries like India or Turkey can't even decide if they should buy 2 or 4 of them because of the price.

Wouldn't it be better to get more fighters instead of hundreds of aair defence systems ?

These are orthogonal entities so your argument fails.   Fighters can't carry ABM missiles.   All the talk is about the S-500 being an ABM
system.  In fact, the S-400 can be turned into one simply by using the same missiles.    As posted above, there are already Mach 15
target interceptors in a small form factor.   Cranking them up to Mach 25 target interceptors does not look like an impossibility to me.

I didn't mean to replace all of them but for 1 S-400 which cost like 500 million $ (at least for export version) you could buy a squadron of Su-30. And Russia is getting a lot of S-400 in a record time.

Russia needs more fighters now than S-400. ABM role is not a big argument too. Who would try a nuclear war with a country that has like 10 000 nuks ?

France has only 300 nuks and 0 long range ABM system and no one would Attack them.

You need highly-trained pilots for fighters and for a huge country like Russia, it takes time to dispatch fighters to where are needed (assuming that they can be spared...). In wartime I would rather have a dense multi-layered SAM-based defense system ready to shoot down anything that didn't show as friendly on IFF, and locate then at (a) high value facilities/cities, and (b) to plug gaps in fighter-based AD coverage.

Yeah I agree but with the introduction of stealthy jet, you will need lot of Aircraft to Attack their position too. When operating, S-400 are static defences so you can lunch missiles at them by staying out of range.

You need highly trained operators for S-400 too, it is not a old Igla manpad where you just look at the target and shoot. At least for a fighter you need 1 or 2 pilot/operator, but for S-400 you need much more.

Russia is huge but the areas to protect are not ... You will have to protect western side and the South east. No need to protect Siberia, it would be also difficult for someone to go that deep and come back because of the distance.

Isos wrote:

kvs wrote:

Isos wrote:They are getting them like breads in a bakery and countries like India or Turkey can't even decide if they should buy 2 or 4 of them because of the price.

Wouldn't it be better to get more fighters instead of hundreds of aair defence systems ?

These are orthogonal entities so your argument fails.   Fighters can't carry ABM missiles.   All the talk is about the S-500 being an ABM
system.  In fact, the S-400 can be turned into one simply by using the same missiles.    As posted above, there are already Mach 15
target interceptors in a small form factor.   Cranking them up to Mach 25 target interceptors does not look like an impossibility to me.

I didn't mean to replace all of them but for 1 S-400 which cost like 500 million $ (at least for export version) you could buy a squadron of Su-30. And Russia is getting a lot of S-400 in a record time.

Russia needs more fighters now than S-400. ABM role is not a big argument too. Who would try a nuclear war with a country that has like 10 000 nuks ?

France has only 300 nuks and 0 long range ABM system and no one would Attack them.

Because S-400 is hot right now? I'm under the impression Russia knows it doesn't really need it now but is purchasing them to boost confidence in foreign buyers.
Overall I agree with you though, Russia needs more planes right now.

GarryB wrote:Just having fighters or just having SAMs makes you vulnerable... having both makes a much more difficult task to defeat for your enemy.

A fighter plane can fly outside of your territory to inspect an incoming threat and determine if it is hostile or innocent.

A fighter and a SAM can work together to find and engage multiple targets much better than either could on their own.

A SAM has a restricted range but is always there defending.

A fighter is much more flexible but its operational costs in terms of training and the weapons it launches would make it more expensive to have than a SAM battery that can use old near expired missiles for testing and training.

I totaly disagree with the last part. S-400 missiles are much more expensive than a R-60/73 or R27/77.

Russia doesn't have enough modern fighters right now. Old Su-27 and Mig-29 SMT, even modernized, will be in big trouble against F-35 or last variants of Rafale, Typhoon. They should spend less for air defence and more for Su-35 and Pak Fa.

And it's not like if they were buying stuff from foreign countries, they produce their own fighter so the money goes to Russians again, the higher cost is not a big problem, specially during war when you don't care about the cost because the factories are in Russia.

Interesting ... a 5P85S2 launcher from the 590th AD RGT (S-400 unit) was seen in the Novosibirsk area loaded with 5V55 instead of 48N6...
5V55 is usually deployed with S-300PS and early S-300PM.

Isos wrote:

GarryB wrote:Just having fighters or just having SAMs makes you vulnerable... having both makes a much more difficult task to defeat for your enemy.

A fighter plane can fly outside of your territory to inspect an incoming threat and determine if it is hostile or innocent.

A fighter and a SAM can work together to find and engage multiple targets much better than either could on their own.

A SAM has a restricted range but is always there defending.

A fighter is much more flexible but its operational costs in terms of training and the weapons it launches would make it more expensive to have than a SAM battery that can use old near expired missiles for testing and training.

I totaly disagree with the last part. S-400 missiles are much more expensive than a R-60/73 or R27/77.

Russia doesn't have enough modern fighters right now. Old Su-27 and Mig-29 SMT, even modernized, will be in big trouble against F-35 or last variants of Rafale, Typhoon. They should spend less for air defence and more for Su-35 and Pak Fa.

And it's not like if they were buying stuff from foreign countries, they produce their own fighter so the money goes to Russians again, the higher cost is not a big problem, specially during war when you don't care about the cost because the factories are in Russia.

the missiles may be expensive but the method is a long term cheapness. A lot of these AD systems are automated and controlled by a central station so it can be unmanned for a huge part of it. As well, training for pilots are expensive. Their method is a long term solution of a mixture of keeping businesses alive and steady supply of equipment. Su-27 still have upgrade potentials that will make it competitive against the other 4++ gen aircraft, plus they have a relatively decent sized air force as is. While I agree they need more, it will take time for that

rambo54 wrote:Interesting ... a 5P85S2 launcher from the 590th AD RGT (S-400 unit) was seen in the Novosibirsk area loaded with 5V55 instead of 48N6...
5V55 is usually deployed with S-300PS and early S-300PM.

The 5V55U although smaller then the 48N6 had the same range of 150 km so "waste not, want not". There have been reports that all PM systems have been or soon will be upgraded to PMU1/2 level, which has some compatibility with the 400 and lately even that some of the PS systems were being upgraded to ?? standards. So perhaps this missile and some conversion of later model 300PS TEL's to carry 300PM missiles is what has occurred. Another 50-100 TEL's and 1,000 missiles would I'm sure be useful... hypothetically speaking.

franco wrote:

rambo54 wrote:Interesting ... a 5P85S2 launcher from the 590th AD RGT (S-400 unit) was seen in the Novosibirsk area loaded with 5V55 instead of 48N6...
5V55 is usually deployed with S-300PS and early S-300PM.

The 5V55U although smaller then the 48N6 had the same range of 150 km so "waste not, want not". There have been reports that all PM systems have been or soon will be upgraded to PMU1/2 level, which has some compatibility with the 400 and lately even that some of the PS systems were being upgraded to ?? standards. So perhaps this missile and some conversion of later model 300PS TEL's to carry 300PM missiles is what has occurred. Another 50-100 TEL's and 1,000 missiles would I'm sure be useful... hypothetically speaking.  

extremely useful imo. Anything considered to be compromised would be older systems sensors and comm structure like the radar. All that can be changed with the radar systems that are new working with the older missiles, and the older missiles undergoing some upgrades/tweaks of their sensors to remove any comrpormise, which would rather be cheap and give the AD system that much more importance.

Anyway, I'm excited for S-350.

https://youtu.be/9-gvYnOX7II

George1 wrote:

Russian troops receive 16 regiment sets of S-400 air defense missile systems over 5 years

Russia’s air units and military formations have been annually receiving over 200 advanced aircraft since 2013

MOSCOW, November 7. /TASS/. Russia has rearmed 16 air defense missile regiments with advanced S-400 surface-to-air missile complexes over the past five years, Chief of General Staff Army General Valery Gerasimov said on Tuesday.

"Over the past five years, 16 air defense missile regiments have been rearmed with the S-400 surface-to-air missile complex. This system detects and destroys targets at a distance that exceeds by more than two times the capabilities of the latest Patriot modifications operational in NATO countries while the S-400 deployment time is five times less compared to its US variant," the general said at a board meeting of Russia’s Defense Ministry.

More:
http://tass.com/defense/974464

update: Jan. 2018

The actual count in Jan. 2018 should be 18 deployed RGTs:


Western Military District (10 RGT)

(4 th Aerospace Defence Division)

Moscow: 3 RGTs

• 210 AD RGT Dubrovki (5P85T2 TELs)
2 sites with 2 Battalions

• 93 AD RGT Svenigorod (5P85S2 TELs)
2 sites with 2 Battalions

• 584 AD RGT Selenograd (5P85S2 TELs)
1 site with 1 batt


(5 th Aerospace Defence Division)

Moscow: 2 RGTs

• 606 AD RGt Elektrostal (5P85S2 TELs)
3 sites wit 3 Battalions

• 549 AD RGT Podolsk (5P85S2 TELs)
2 sites with 2 Battalions
(detachment of 2x4 launchers in Syria?)


(44th  Air Defence Division)

Kaliningrad: 1 RGT

• 183 AD RGT Kaliningrad (5P85T2 & S2 TELs)
4 sites with 4 batt
Jantarny: 1 site with 1 Batt (with 6 S2 TELs)
Dorozhnoye: 1 site with 1 Batt (with 6 S2 TELs)
Baltysk: 1 site with 1 Batt (with 6 T2 TELs)
Baltiyskoye: 1 site with 1 Batt (with 6 T2 TELs)


(1 th Aerospace Defence Brigade)

Murmansk: 1 RGT

• 531 AD RGT (5P85S2 TELs)
2 sites with 2 batts

Severodvinsk: 1 RGT

• 1528 AD RGT
2 sites with 2 batts


(2nd Air Defence Division )

St.Petersburg: 2 RGT

• 500 AD RGT
2 sites with 2 batts

• 1488 AD RGT
2 sites with 2 batts


Eastern Military District (3 RGT)

(93rd  Air Defence Division)

• 589 AD RGT Nachodka (5P85S2 TELs)
2 sites with 2 Battalions

• 1533 AD RGT Vladivostok (5P85S2 TELs)
2 sites with 2 Battalions (since Dec. 2017)

(53rd  Air Defence Division)

Kamchatka: 1 RGT

• 1532 AD RGT Petropavlovsk -Rybachi (5P85S2 TELs)
3 sites with 3 battalions


Southern Military District (3 RGT)

(51th  Air Defence Division)

Novorossisk: 1 RGT

• 1537 AD RGT Novorossisk (5P85S2 TELs)
2 sites with 2 Battalions

(31st  Air Defence Division)

Crimea: 2RGT
• 18 AD RGT Crimea (5P85S2 TELs)
2 sites at Feodossia & Kerch with 2 batt

• 12 AD RGT Crimea (5P85S2 TELs)
1 site at Sevastopol with 1 batt since Jan. 2018 (the 2nd site at Belbeck will receive equipment in Feb. 2018)


Central Military District (2 RGT)

(41th  Air Defence Division)

Novosibirsk: 1 RGT

• 590 AD RGT Novosibirsk (5P85S2 TELs)
2 sites with 2 Battalions

(76th  Air Defence Division)

Engels: 1 RGT

• 511 AD RGT Engels (5P85S2 TELs)
1 site with 1 Battalion since Dec. 2017 (the 2nd site will receive equipment in Feb. 2018)