Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

Some high-rez pics of the K getting tarted up...

source

This "dry dock" (or should that be "mud pit" ) isn't a permanent structure, as other than some retaining walls and the concrete pad for the K and her supports, much of the interior is unimproved. I wonder if the gov will develop it further into a proper dry dock with a cassion gate once the K is done, or whether they will just demolish the cofferdam and reinstate the old facility?

Eight round revolving underdeck launcher is the standard firing unit of shipboard Kinzhal. Eight-round launchers are usually grouped in a group of three or four in various combinations. Although modular, it is rather bulky and heavy.

It was, but only for the naval version of the missile to allow under deck inspection and testing of each missile... they did something similar for the naval BUK and Rif type missiles too.

The thing is that a circle of 8 missile tubes takes up quite a bit of under deck space... not to mention the mechanism that rotates the tubes to the launch hatch for launching... the only advantage is that it reduces by a factor of 8 the number of missile hatches you need, but in comparison missile hatches are simple and cheap and having one hatch for each missile simplifies the whole thing and makes for a much more compact design where every missile is ready to launch all the time and you can check the health and readiness of each missile electronically before launch.

The location of the tubes means a pallet of launch bins could be stored inside the ship and driven out and have the old bins raised up and put to one side and full missile bins lowered into place and the old pallet taken away and checked and any fired missile tubes reloaded ready for reuse.

This "dry dock" (or should that be "mud pit" Laughing ) isn't a permanent structure, as other than some retaining walls and the concrete pad for the K and her supports, much of the interior is unimproved. I wonder if the gov will develop it further into a proper dry dock with a cassion gate once the K is done, or whether they will just demolish the cofferdam and reinstate the old facility?

I think moving forward they are going to have more and more rather large ships... civilian and military... so any extra dry docks they can have on hand would be valuable... big ones allow smaller vessels to be worked on in groups as long as you can schedule filling and emptying times to suit each project.

I would say the few months it would take to empty the dry dock and then lay down enough cement to do the job to the thicknesses needed to hold the weights involved and of course waiting the necessary curing time for the cement would tie the dock up for longer than they would prefer, so using it without a cement base was saving time and making better use of available resources... or perhaps they are running out of cement...

Big_Gazza wrote:This "dry dock" (or should that be "mud pit"   ) isn't a permanent structure, as other than some retaining walls and the concrete pad for the K and her supports, much of the interior is unimproved.   I wonder if the gov will develop it further into a proper dry dock with a cassion gate once the K is done, or whether they will just demolish the cofferdam and reinstate the old facility?

It is unfinished, but they lost the PD-50 so they need a replacement, which in this case is much better. The gates are being built, but they didn't have them ready for the docking of the Kuznetsov. Obviously to destroy such a huge construction makes no sense. They were simply terribly late due to the fiasco with the first contractor and needed to do some emergency management.

USC allowed postponement of the return of the Admiral Kuznetsov to the Navy

USC announced a possible postponement of the return of the Admiral Kuznetsov to the Navy

August 20, 2022, 02: 11

The heavy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov of the Soviet Union Fleet and the heavy nuclear-powered missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov may be handed over to the Navy by 2024. This was announced on Friday, August 19, by Vladimir Korolev, Deputy General Director of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) for Military Shipbuilding, on the sidelines of the Army-2022 forum.

"Due to delays in the supply of equipment by cooperative enterprises, there is a possibility of postponing the transfer of the Admiral Kuznetsov fleet to 2024. The same applies to the Admiral Nakhimov cruiser, " he said.

It is noted that the USC is doing everything possible to transfer the aircraft carrier and cruiser in 2023, as planned,but there is a risk of postponing the deadline.

https://iz.ru/1382383/2022-08-20/osk-dopustila-perenos-srokov-vozvrashcheniia-admirala-kuznetcova-vmf

Jesus, just put it out of it's misery already...

Let the tantrums begin... because obviously a delay of one year will make them both totally obsolete because by 2024 everyone will have even bigger ships and these ones will have become not as shiny.... mom... you did this to me last Christmas... and Nyke boots are not the same as Nike boots... all the other kids laughed at me... wah wah wah.

GarryB wrote:Let the tantrums begin... because obviously a delay of one year will make them both totally obsolete because by 2024 everyone will have even bigger ships and these ones will have become not as shiny.... mom... you did this to me last Christmas... and Nyke boots are not the same as Nike boots... all the other kids laughed at me... wah wah wah.

How many Zircons will fit the space left after Granit is gone?
24?
Maybe there will be no need to air the planes anyway

ALAMO wrote:How many Zircons will fit the space left after Granit is gone?
24?
Maybe there will be no need to air the planes anyway

Many more actually

But I am not sure they will change them, I have not seen the kind of rework at the flight deck that would make you think they are going to remove the Granits.

GarryB wrote:
Let the tantrums begin... because obviously a delay of one year will make them both totally obsolete because by 2024 everyone will have even bigger ships and these ones will have become not as shiny.... mom... you did this to me last Christmas... and Nyke boots are not the same as Nike boots... all the other kids laughed at me... wah wah wah.

Current force + Gorshkov, Kasatonov and Golovko (more to come next year and in 2024) armed with Tsirkons will cover the gap and keep yankees worried enough in the meanwhile. Plus the 949AM that will also come in the same period, for which the doubt persists, how many CBG a single sub can send to the bottom...

The problem is the supply chain for those capital vessels seems to be little efficient, logical to a certain point due to their uniqueness. I assume the relevance the navy is getting in this phase of the struggle against the West will force the government to cut the crap and put everyone risking the national security in their place for good. No place for crooks and 5th columnists in the MIC, but they can go to Siberia for a refreshing change in their lives

The head of the USC: after the repair, the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" will serve at least 25 years

Alexey Rakhmanov spoke about the implementation of the state defense order, the prospects for serial equipping of ships with Zircon missiles and the possibility of strengthening the armament of diesel submarines

Moscow. August 15. INTERFAX.RU - General Director of United Shipbuilding Corporation JSC (USC) Alexei Rakhmanov, in an interview with Interfax columnist Pavel Koryashkin, spoke about the corporation's plans at the military-technical forum "Army", the repair of the only Russian aircraft carrier, fifth-generation submarines and the decision of the Ministry of Defense to stop on one frigate project.

- How many ships, vessels and submarines will USC hand over to the military this year?

- This year it is planned to transfer 11 ships to the fleet - eight new and three after repair. We have already handed over to the Russian Navy a new minesweeper (we will hand over another one after repairs) and a diesel submarine.
Recently, the flag was raised on a ship you know (On July 8, USC handed over to the Russian Navy a special-purpose nuclear submarine "Belgorod" - IF), two more submarines at Sevmash are in the final stages of testing (the Pacific Fleet reported that it would receive a strategic nuclear submarine this year " Prince Oleg" and multi-purpose "Novosibirsk" ). We hope that they will also join the Navy this year.

- In your office, cameras show several shipyards in real time. Here is the dock with the Admiral Kuznetsov under repair. Is it true that the transfer of the aircraft carrier to the fleet has been postponed to 2024?

- Dock repair will proceed within the framework of the existing schedule. All this time, work on the ship did not stop, active preparations are underway for the installation of cable products, the installation of a large amount of modernized equipment. We must give the ship to the military in the first quarter of 2024. As a result of fault detection, a significant part of the equipment required replacement or repair in the factory. These are objective difficulties, there were also subjective ones. In addition, decisions have been made on the ship, which I cannot comment on, but I will note that after the repair, the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier will serve for at least 25 years.

- "Admiral Kuznetsov" will receive new boilers, new flight systems and communication systems, new weapons ...

- There's a lot of new stuff.

- In principle, USC is ready to build such large warships?

- Of course. We are in full swing modernizing "Severnaya Verf". As soon as the installation of the slipway is completed, it will be the tallest industrial building in St. Petersburg - 75 meters high, 125 meters wide and 250 meters long. This is more than enough to build virtually any large-capacity vessel. And even if a decision is made to build a new aircraft carrier, the lion's share of the work can be done at Severnaya Verf.

- In May 2021, Commander-in-Chief of the Russian Navy Nikolai Evmenov announced that the Baltic Fleet would receive new diesel submarines. Still, now there is already an understanding of what kind of submarines we are talking about - 636.3 or 677 ?


- I can't comment on it. Let me just say that we have worked out projects - 677 and adapted 636, which we learned to build at the Admiralty Shipyards in large series.

Ready to fulfill orders of the Ministry of Defense.

By the way, I am glad that one of the Project 677 submarines will finally complete the main part of the tests, and the frequency of construction and delivery of such products will already be clear to us. It is likely that the Navy will say which it would prefer - 636.3 or 677, and for which fleet. Both submarines turned out to be good, and we are confident in their effectiveness.

- Now USC is fulfilling a contract for a series of diesel submarines of project 636.3 for the Pacific Fleet. Still, there are plans to continue the construction of these submarines?

- These submarines were designed at the end of the last century. Given a number of upgrades - and there are quite a lot of them - we get an effective weapon that is definitely better than the old diesel-electric submarines that are now in service. With rhythmic financing, we can promise the construction of two such diesel submarines per year. And then - already the decision of the fleet, what kind of submarines are needed by type, for which fleets and, accordingly, at what speed the construction should go. Now we are building one such boat a year, but this is not our shortcoming, but the planned pace of construction within the framework of the existing order.

- Project 636.3 submarines can be upgraded to carry more Kalibr cruise missiles?

- We have at least six versions that we offer for modernization. And the one that offers an increase in armament power is also being considered by us.

- Last December, you said that the USC would make a technical design for the Leader nuclear destroyer, and that the Defense Ministry's wishes were understandable. At what stage of the technical project?

- I would not become attached to a specific project now. I can say one thing - the Ministry of Defense decided that the ships of the "frigate" class of the far sea zone should be based on one project. The technical project is currently under development. As soon as it is approved, we will announce what kind of project it will be, its qualifications and so on. We understand the logic and strategy of the Ministry of Defense for the development of the Navy. Our task is to design and offer various kinds of options. The task of the customer is to choose and bet on certain projects.

- Does this mean that the nuclear destroyer project was abandoned?

- No, until the decision is made, I would not reject any options.

- According to the military, the Project 22350 frigates, in particular the Admiral Gorshkov, performed well ?

- Yes. The development of this project is one of the options.
"Admiral Gorshkov" can become, relatively speaking, a "donor" of this platform of ships of the far sea zone in terms of its optimal size, seaworthiness without restrictions and its geometric dimensions, the likelihood of some kind of correction in case a larger number of strike ships need to be placed there and defensive weapons.

- You said that one basic frigate design would probably be selected. Are there any plans to equip it with more Kalibr missiles?

- We count on it.

- Does this mean that the military will choose the modernized project 22350M as the base?

- Probably yes. But since the question is still within the competence of the Ministry of Defense, I can only speculate here.

- The Ministry of Defense reported on successful tests of the Zircon hypersonic missile from the Admiral Gorshkov frigate. On Navy Day, the President of Russia announced that the delivery of Zircons to the Armed Forces would begin in the coming months. When can serial equipping of surface ships with these missiles begin?

- We go in the wake of the wishes of the customer.

The fact that the tests went well inspires confidence that we are finally going in the right sequence: first the weapon is tested, and then the carrier adapts to it. We are very glad that we have found a common understanding with the Ministry of Defense. As soon as they place an order, these missiles will be installed on the appropriate ships, on launchers. So everything is going according to plan here.

- Is the creation of fifth-generation submarines - strategic and multi-purpose - not stalling?

- There is always a temptation to complain that our design bureaus are working slowly, and the military is slow to make decisions. But fifth-generation submarines are actually a serious challenge. Due to the tasks that the customer has set for us, a number of technical solutions must be revised radically.
We do not want to run into long-term construction. By and large, we build for a long time only in the case when, as the so-called hidden R&D projects, undeveloped technical solutions get on our lead ships. Wherever we are talking about the creation of new weapons, and not serial samples, the increase in terms is caused by the need to refine or refine either weapons systems or ship control systems. By doing this ashore, we save a huge amount of time when the product goes on combat duty.

We made our conclusions jointly with the fleet. To date, fundamental technical solutions are being developed, each of which entails additional tests, the creation of additional prototypes, and their testing. As soon as these works are completed, we will be able to assemble what will be called the fifth generation submarine from a set of technical solutions.

In general, work is progressing according to schedule. I hope that in the near future we will be able to finally agree with the Ministry of Defense on a pragmatic final work schedule for fifth-generation submarines.

- Are you satisfied with the way "Sevmash" fulfills contracts for "Yasen" and "Borey"?

- In general, yes. Last year we commissioned three nuclear submarines.

Three nuclear submarines a year by one plant have not been surrendered for a very, very long time, since 1991. This suggests that the plant has increased the necessary production capacity, was able to cope with the training of the necessary personnel and did everything to ensure that the products were of high quality and worked reliably.

Of course, we would very much like to deliver not three, but four nuclear submarines last year. But there were objective reasons why we had to conduct additional series of tests.

- In 2020, Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko said that Sevmash's capacities were fully loaded with orders until 2027. What's next?

- "Yasen" and "Borey" have already been modernized, the modernized submarines of the Yasen-M and Borey-A projects have already been put into service. If you are interested in whether there will be a modernization of the next order or whether we will immediately switch to the fifth generation, then on this issue we are deciding with the military. They decide what will be more effective, including in terms of the pace of rearmament of the Navy.

- Have you completed the relocation of the USC main office to St. Petersburg?

- Yes, successfully completed. Here we live and work for two cities, in trains and planes. Of course, all those who are directly involved in production management are in St. Petersburg. Of course they are more comfortable. They are very close to the factories, to the technical and tactical decisions made there.

The strategic office is still the same as it was and remains in Moscow. Simply because the government, the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Industry and Trade, and all the federal ministries with which we have to work - they are all here.

- You said that about 1.5 billion rubles would be spent on moving the main office to St. Petersburg. Did you get this amount?

Plus or minus yes. Of course, there are some nuances associated with adjusting the budget, because during the period of repair, design work, something became cheaper, something more expensive, but in general, we managed to accurately predict the costs of moving. We closely monitored both the budget and the fundamental technical and design decisions that influenced the performance of the work.

- The West is tightening sanctions, how noticeable is this for USC?

- In terms of military shipbuilding, we practically do not feel any sanctions. The small "tails" that we have left are closed or are being closed by alternative supply channels. The work of our partners and contractors is to completely remove dependence on foreign components.

In military shipbuilding, the level of required localization significantly exceeds 95%. The remaining less than 5% - electronic component base, some small products. If these 5% are suddenly blocked, we have the competence to create such components, assemblies and assemblies. They relate rather to the convenience of being on board and do not affect the combat properties of the ships that we build. But in the end, the Navy orders the equipment for us, and, as they say, we take it under the hood.

https://www.interfax.ru/interview/856092?utm_source=mob&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=mob

LMFS wrote:

The problem is the supply chain for those capital vessels seems to be little efficient, logical to a certain point due to their uniqueness. I assume the relevance the navy is getting in this phase of the struggle against the West will force the government to cut the crap and put everyone risking the national security in their place for good. No place for crooks and 5th columnists in the MIC, but they can go to Siberia for a refreshing change in their lives

It's nice to be optimistic. Keep it up.

But I am not sure they will change them, I have not seen the kind of rework at the flight deck that would make you think they are going to remove the Granits.

I have to agree... but its remote location from the main aircraft hangar and its likely isolated and firewalled nature... I would say UKSK-M tubes with some Ovtet anti sub missiles would be more valuable to an aircraft carrier... if 80 UKSK tubes can replace 20 Granit tubes on a Kirov class then they should be able to get 40 tubes in the space for 12 Granit tubes on the Kuznetsov...

how many CBG a single sub can send to the bottom...

If you want to operate globally the best way is via the worlds oceans and waterways... subs are dangerous, but carrier groups hunting subs are dangerous too and western subs will only actually attack Russian subs once because the result is the same for everyone... all Russia has to do is make the west believe that attacking Russian shipping and interfering with Russian trade with the rest of the world will break the west into little broken non functioning pieces they can't recover from... via some Zircon surgery... amongst other instruments.

Building a decent navy means they are ready to trade and wont take shit from western navies who will be small by comparison in most cases except for the US Navy.

The problem was always with the suppliers of components, not the yards. You can´t finish a ship in time if some stuff is missing, even if it is only some small auxiliary machine. A lot of the old suppliers of the ship construction complex were left in the south-western regions (known as "Ukraine" in the last decades). For some companies in Russia is was not very lucrative to build small numbers of specialised equipment for the Navy. Larger orders could change this. Or what LMFS mentioned (vacation in Siberia).

Hole wrote:The problem was always with the suppliers of components, not the yards. You can´t finish a ship in time if some stuff is missing, even if it is only some small auxiliary machine. A lot of the old suppliers of the ship construction complex were left in the south-western regions (known as "Ukraine" in the last decades). For some companies in Russia is was not very lucrative to build small numbers of specialised equipment for the Navy. Larger orders could change this. Or what LMFS mentioned (vacation in Siberia).

Even the biggest marine construction superpowers like China and Korea are not self-sufficient.
They still importing tons of things from other countries, because this is how this entire business is constructed.
Soviet Union had it's production dispersed not only among the republics that are no longer the Russian sphere of influence but ordered a waste supply of specialized maritime construction abroad. Not only in Poland, East Germany, Bulgaria and Romania, but in countries as exotic as Finland and Yugoslavia. They have ordered the specialized equipment for yards not only in West Germany but in Japan and the Netherlands as well.
Donbas was a source of high-quality marine rated steel sheets for shipbuilding for decades, and I guess this will be something that will be reestablished very soon. And it might be both China and Korea that will be really interested. All the factories that were busi producing railroad stuff, often were source of marine shafts or propellers - again Donbas was among the suppliers for a waste period of time.
Electronic&radio equipment was produced on the territory of Latvia and Ukraine - this thing was gone for the last 30 years, Russkie reestablished construction potential on its own soil. You can't produce ships having no supply, and there will be no domestic supply if you are not producing ships in series. That is a closed circle. Russkie did a huge and outstanding job with fishing fleet reconstruction, and the very same scheme is applied for the river going vessels. Oil and gas companies are the next momentum gain for this business, only now we will see some reshaping of it due to war.

caveat emptor wrote:It's nice to be optimistic. Keep it up.

Indeed it is...

Nevertheless, uprooting the weeds in the MIC is a tedious and lengthy work that will extend for many years still. But it is accelerating as of late.

GarryB wrote:
I have to agree... but its remote location from the main aircraft hangar and its likely isolated and firewalled nature... I would say UKSK-M tubes with some Ovtet anti sub missiles would be more valuable to an aircraft carrier... if 80 UKSK tubes can replace 20 Granit tubes on a Kirov class then they should be able to get 40 tubes in the space for 12 Granit tubes on the Kuznetsov...

What about naval S-500 tubes? Seeing the K become the first carrier in the world protected against hypersonic weapons would make PD the happiest man in the world, for sure

If you want to operate globally the best way is via the worlds oceans and waterways... subs are dangerous, but carrier groups hunting subs are dangerous too and western subs will only actually attack Russian subs once because the result is the same for everyone... all Russia has to do is make the west believe that attacking Russian shipping and interfering with Russian trade with the rest of the world will break the west into little broken non functioning pieces they can't recover from... via some Zircon surgery... amongst other instruments.

Building a decent navy means they are ready to trade and wont take shit from western navies who will be small by comparison in most cases except for the US Navy.

Certainly the deterrence must be that in any exchange, USN will lose. If they gain the upper hand in a certain region, they would be tempted to disregard their own losses and cripple VMF's ability do deploy there. So Russia needs to be ready to battle USN for real. The issue is the massive numerical advantage they have. Against PLAN, the US advantage is qualitative. But against both operating together, US loses in every aspect. This (Chinese numbers together with Russian weapons systems) gives Russia the time to develop their blue water fleet, including destroyers, cruisers and carriers. A massive challenge, but one that cannot be avoided or delayed further.

Podlodka77 wrote:The head of the USC: after the repair, the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" will serve at least 25 years

For some reason, taken the ships history, I kind of doubt that.

Yep. I'm not sure if this ship was in regular service more than 10, altogether.

Very god interview with lots of interesting points. It seems the K's modernization received some upgrade. It also seems Severnaya will be enabled to build big destroyers or cruisers (main building 75 m high)

Yep. I'm not sure if this ship was in regular service more than 10, altogether.

Yeah from about 1990 to about 2012 the Russian Army was not in great shape either, but with money and attention and a few upgrades they seem to have their shit together... talk to a Nazi about it... but be quick... they seem to be running out...

GarryB wrote:

Yep. I'm not sure if this ship was in regular service more than 10, altogether.

Yeah from about 1990 to about 2012 the Russian Army was not in great shape either, but with money and attention and a few upgrades they seem to have their shit together... talk to a Nazi about it... but be quick... they seem to be running out...

Yes Kuz last 5 years has been nothing but perfection...

It is not an easy thing to master a fixed wing aircraft carrier, and lack of purpose and funding for quite some time has hampered performance.

But being an aircraft carrier expert yourself you know they operate in three cycles... overhaul/upgrade, training, operational... the Kuznetsov has spent most of its time in training mode because there was no need for it to sail the world, and no money to do so even if they wanted to, so sitting at a pier means lack of proper training and usage.

That same lack of funding means proper overhauls and upgrades have been lacking for quite some time, but experience in Syria will have been invaluable... the opportunity to operate as a carrier... receiving intel about real world enemy targets that are trying to be elusive, having to then plan missions to attack said targets, which unfortunately ended up having to be launched by land based aircraft, but they would have run it by the numbers and worked out tempos and how much fuel and ammo was being used, which aircraft would be available for each mission and follow up recon missions to determine if the strikes were successful and whether follow up attacks would be needed.

All the while watching over friendly ships nearby and monitoring the airspace and sea surrounding the group.

It was excellent practise that was carried out in the middle of a scheduled overhaul and upgrade programme that it went back to afterwards.

They likely learned more in a few weeks than they managed to learn in years being tied up at a pier... and it is all valuable information that will shape the next gen carriers when they build them... which likely wont be till well into the 2030s because they need destroyers and cruisers first.

The west would love them to give up their carrier... their goal is to isolate and contain Russia and also China, and also ironically to a lessor extent the countries they are using to "fight" them... HATO/EU and India... how much US Navy hardware can the US sell to India or Australia or Europe...

walle83 wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:The head of the USC: after the repair, the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" will serve at least 25 years

For some reason, taken the ships history, I kind of doubt that.

I don't doubt it. China has proven that the design is good. This the first time modern Russia has thrown some real money and effort into the carrier program. After this refit , it most likely will look no different than its sister ships in China.

GarryB wrote:The west would love them to give up their carrier...

Agree 100%, and that is the main reason why our presstitute scribbler class is so insistent on recycling stupid old propaganda tropes such as the K being a rusty hulk, or having no toilets, or having smokey exhaust, or needing a tug wherever she goes in case she breaks down, or being useless cuz it doesn't have catapults (an old favourite that they continue to reuse even though the two new UK carriers both use ski-jumps, as did the Invincible class before them).

These scribblers are bought-and-paid-for idiots and despite their efforts their spiteful BS will have zero effect on the Russian navy planning. K will be modenised and repaired, and she will be an altogther different vessel when she emerges. Naturally the K-haters will continue with their silly diatribes, but they will simply make themselves look even more petty and stupid.

Western morons invoke the idiot meme about the K needing to be followed by a tug on case she "breaks down" but i'll bet these cretins will remain silent about the brand new UK carrier Prince of Wales breaking down while attempting to cross the Atlantic...  

UK's biggest warship, HMS Prince of Wales, breaks down off south coast shortly after setting sail for US

The 65,000-tonne vessel is said to have suffered a "significant technical fault" - with unconfirmed reports about damage to the starboard propeller shaft.

source

Karma is such a bitch....