U.E.C.- Russian aircraft engines

Swgman_BK wrote:

Make that NEVER.

GarryB wrote:Ukraine is hardly known for its sensible and commercially sound choices....

If Ukraine had Russian engines as an option they would be looking at PD-35s and an enlarged An-124 with four PD-35 engines and a scaled down model with just two engines that would mimic the Il-106 and Slon Russian projects... and then say the Russian aircraft would not be needed because obviously Russia should buy the Ukrainian aircraft and stop Russian development of transport and cargo aircraft because that is Ukraines thing.

The Ukrainian engine and transport plane industry is dead... even if the people involved are still alive, Boeing and GE and other western companies would be hunting them down to hire them for their skills... if not their politics...

• Nothing or TVRS-44 Ladoga with 2 TV7-117 turboprop for the 5 tons payload niche.
  
  
• Il-212 with 2 PD-8 turbofan (around 10-12 tons payload)
  (Possibly to be paired later with a new aircraft with 2 PDV-4000 turboprop
  
  
• ??? In the 20-35 tons payload range.
  
  Possibly tu-330 with either 2 PD16 or with modern propfan (core of PD-14 with modernised NK-93 architecture) I doubt it can be in service by 2030 but at least it could be in already in flight tests.
  
  
  
• Il-76 (up to 60 tons payload, but with restricted max width of payload in comparison to newer project like Tu-330 and An-70. (3.2 m Vs 4m)
  
  
  
• An-22 replacement in development with 80-100 tons payload (To be ready after 2035) Probably revamped il-106 with wither 4 PD-18R or with 2 PD-35.
  
  
  
• An-124 (120 to 150 tons of payload) with 4 D-18T turbofan possibly slightly increased range if the engines are modernised.
  Possibly modernised version to be produced after 2030 with 4 PD-28 turbofan.
  
  
• Slon???
  

GarryB wrote:
BTW I bet it was the Russian military that was pushing for the Il-112V to have the TV7-117 engine because it is going to be used in Mi-38 helicopters and Il-114 aircraft and also Altius drones and likely also the civilian Ladoga light twin engine plane too, so they probably wanted a bit of engine commonality and standardisation... but the TV7-117 is not a PD series that is designed to be scalable between engine thrust classes, so of course there were problems boosting power.

A PD-8 powered version to replace the An-72 is an excellent solution and when a 4-5K hp engine is ready then the Il-112V can be revisited... probably in the 8-10 ton payload class.

But the An-124 was a Soviet project, not an Ukrainian one. That is one of the bullshits done by Eltsin and his entourage during the fall of Soviet union. Russia should have taken all the IPs, and legal ownerships and moved the design bureau and at best left there the plant to act as a potential contractor.

Anyway Russia has all the designs and capabilities to produce new modernised An-124 in Ulyanovsk.

It does not need anymore Ukraine for that.

Slon could be interesting, but it is counterproductive to dedicate resources to develop from scratch something to replace the An-124 when they still need to design, develop and test an An-12 replacement, and a An-22/il-106 replacement. Not too speak of the il-212, which still require additional work to fix.

Actually working on a il-76 replacement would make more sense than working on a An-124 replacement.

Nothing or TVRS-44 Ladoga with 2 TV7-117 turboprop for the 5 tons payload niche.

Il-212 with 2 PD-8 turbofan (around 10-12 tons payload)
(Possibly to be paired later with a new aircraft with 2 PDV-4000 turboprop

I do not like the il-276 project instead (even if there could be commonalities with the il-76).

I really hate that old steaming pile of shit airframe design in the TVRS-44 Ladoga. Just cancel that shit. Same thing with L-410. Kill it with fire.
Someone should unfreeze the Il-114 project. If the problem is the engines, then why is the TVRS-44 Ladoga proceeding while that is frozen?

They need aircraft with these engines:
- twin PD-8s. An-72 replacement.
- twin PD-14/16. An-12 replacement.
- twin PD-28/35. Il-76 replacement.
- quad PD-28/35. An-124/225 replacement.

Isos wrote:An-124 are very important. Either keep building more or create a replacement.

Isos wrote:Antonov is a failed company today maintained artificially by the ukrainians. No one cares about it, russians have invested massively in SSJ-100, il-76, MC-21...and others.

No need to add a campany and loose money on it.

kvs wrote:No piece of a unitary state can claim exclusive rights to any IP. All the pieces have equal rights to such IP. Clearly most of the pieces
of the USSR have no capacity to do anything with various IP. But they should not have the legal right to block Russia from applying all of the
USSR IP. This grotesque nonsense is what is happening.

An-124 are very important. Either keep building more or create a replacement.

Replacement works better. Just gotta wait for that PD35 with a high bypass ratio.. Should make for something capable of lifting 150-200 tons if 3 are mounted on each wing..

As far as Il-106, at the moment it is only a paper plane and manufacturing was never planned or or organised.

They announced many times in the period between 2018 and 2022 that this plane would have the same cargo size as the an-124 and up to 120 tons payload. That has nothing to do with the original il-106 project.

Just as an example both the Tu-330 and the An-70 were planned to have a cargo hold with 4 m internal width.

Basically I see the Il-76 as a good plane, but also as only a stop gap since nothing else could be produced in a short time by Russia. Commonality with it is not that necessary for a medium transport plane if by the time the smaller aircraft enter production, the il-76 production is stopped.

Also Tu-330 will need several years of work, but at least there are commonalities with Il-204/214 which should simplify things for production.

I mean if there will be il-212 with PD-8 engines and 10-12 tons of payload and Tu-330 with PD-16 engines (or PD-18R or the old PS90) and 30/35 tons of payload, then a il-276 with 20 tons of payload (and PD-14 (or PS-90) engines) seems redundant.

But they should not have the legal right to block Russia from applying all of the
USSR IP. This grotesque nonsense is what is happening.

Should they throw away all of that just because the Antonov Design bureau was based in Kiev after being moved there from Novosibirsk?

They can easily restart the production. An-124 or Il-1000, name doesn't matter.

There is an An-124 production facility in Russia. Aviastar-SP at Ulyanovsk.

GarryB wrote:The Il-106 had 4 x 16 ton thrust engines so a new model with 2 x PD-35 should be able to carry more.

Heavier loads possible with reduced fuel loads using inflight refuelling to top up after take off to restore range.

the original il-106 project was supposed to have 4 NK-92 propfan (military version of the "civilian" NK-93), with 18 tons of takeoff thrust each.

So actually 2x35 tons engines would mean a total of 2 tons less of thrust at takeoff rating. Not a lot, of course, but definitely not more than the original plan.

The engines could be uprated at 36- or up to 38 tons apparently in the plans of UEC, but that possibly would require a modified version in order not to compromise too much engine life.

I am not that sure planning for inflight refueling in normal operations makes sense.

If it is for an emergency or for extra long range maybe, but when the extra load or range is needed, using a larger an-124 (if available) would cost much less than doing inflight refueling in an il-106.

– Have the sanctions affected the work of your department?

- Yes, sure. We need to switch from foreign calculation programs to domestic ones, take into account the use of domestic materials and components, including the element base, raw materials and supplies.


– What is the biggest difficulty you encountered in the process of import substitution?

– Perhaps the most difficult task is the transition to domestic software. Recently, almost all calculations were performed using foreign software. Now we will gradually switch to analogues of Russian developers. The second is domestic units for helicopters and, first of all, a new generation of gas turbine engines.


– Are there organizations in Russia that could take on this work?

– Of course, they exist, but you need to understand that the creation of any engine is almost comparable in complexity and time to the creation of an aircraft. The implementation of a propulsion project requires a very long time, a large number of theoretical calculations and applied solutions, technology development, etc. It takes about ten years to create a full-fledged helicopter engine. This task is currently being carried out at the United Engine Corporation, but time and, of course, appropriate funding are needed.


– Could such a delay in engine production negatively affect the development of helicopter manufacturing in our country?

– We look at this situation positively, knowing that in the near future domestic engines will be created for lighter types of helicopters (with a maximum take-off weight of 3-4 tons and 6-8 tons). Rotorcraft will be designed on the basis of these engines until 2030. Such developments are underway. It is also necessary to create gas turbine engines in the 4–5 thousand horsepower class for heavy types of promising rotary-wing aircraft (with a maximum take-off weight of 12–15 tons).

– Could such a delay in engine production negatively affect the development of helicopter manufacturing in our country?

The only helicopter Russia has in development around 15tons MTOW is the Mil Mi-38, with a MTOW of 15.6 tons.

However it was not supposed to use a 4000-5000 hp engine.

The engine of the Mi-38 should have been the TV7-117 / VK-3000, rated at 2800 HP, turboshaft derivative of the il-114 engine.

UEC will produce more than 1,500 helicopter engines by 2030
12.11.2023, 13:15
TV7-117V engine. Photo by United Engine Corporation (UEC)

Since 2022, imported technologies and components of the aircraft industry have become unavailable to Russia due to political reasons of its former partners. At the same time, import substitution and transition to domestic aircraft and helicopters ensures technological sovereignty, reliability, independence and safety of the Russia aviation industry. The comprehensive program for the development of the aviation industry until 2030, adopted in the summer of 2022, provides, in particular, an increase in the production of helicopters and turboshaft engines for them.

Adjustments made to the program in August 2023 take into account the forecasted needs of helicopters for operating companies, as well as the growth of production capacity of the United Engine Corporation enterprises. As a result of these changes, the total number of turboshaft engines produced, excluding the production of replacement propulsion systems, should total 1,528 units, and helicopters – 764 machines.

The most mass turboshaft engines used in Russian helicopters are the TV3-117 and the VK-2500. Both engines were developed by the Klimov Design Bureau, only the first one was developed in the USSR, the second one – in Russia. The TV3-117V was produced in Zaporozhye at the Motor Sich plant, and after the 2014 Maidan, when Ukraine began to wind down its cooperation with the Russian Federation, serial production of the VK-2500 engine began at UEC-Klimov in the St. Petersburg. Both engines have similar technical characteristics and are used on the same types of helicopters. Therefore, in the tables of the Integrated Program they are indicated with a slash, which emphasizes their interchangeability.

VK-2500 has increased power, is equipped with a digital control system and is capable of operating at high altitudes. This engine was tested in the mountains of Tibet as part of the Mi-17-V5 helicopter power plant and proved its reliability and efficiency in extreme high altitude conditions. According to UEC-Klimov, the engine has a rated life of 9,000 hours and an overhaul life of 3,000 hours. VK-2500 has become the standard choice for new serial helicopters, it is also offered for remotorization of previously produced machines.

The production of the VK-2500 engine is organized in cooperation with the Ufa-based UEC-UMPO, while the V.V. Chernyshyov Helicopter Plant produces the free turbine modules. The axial compressor module is produced by MMP named after V.V. Chernyshyov. The final assembly of the propulsion system is carried out at the St. Petersburg-based UEC-Klimov. It is planned to produce 934 VK-2500 engines by 2030, as well as 160 replacement engines. About 100 power units will be produced annually and will be installed on various types of helicopters, including Mi-8MTV1, Mi-8AMT, Mi-171/A2/A3, as well as Ka-32A11M and Ka-32A11BC. As a result, by 2030, the total number of helicopters produced for which the VK-2500 is designed should reach 428 units.

The TV7-117V turboshaft engine is a helicopter version of the TV7-117SM free turbine GTE and is designed for installation on the Mi-38 helicopter. The certificate for the TV7-117V was issued in 2015. The engine is equipped with a new digital electronic control and monitoring system BARK-6V of FADEC type, created on the basis of a single unit of automatic regulation and control.

The engine is operated according to the technical condition in accordance with aviation rules AP-33 until the assigned resource of any of the main parts is reached without mandatory removal of the engine for repair. The assigned resources of the main parts are specified in the data card of the type certificate. On June 29, 2023 the approval of the main change of the type design was issued, according to which the resources of main parts were increased.

The peculiarity of the TV7-117B engine family development is to ensure the safety of helicopter flight in extreme situations by introducing a 2.5-minute emergency mode of 3750 hp. This was achieved by optimizing the design of the inlet guide tube and the first stage of the axial compressor, as well as changing the material of high-pressure turbine blades. The corresponding changes to the type certificate data card were made on July 1, 2022.

It is planned to gradually increase the production volume of TV7-117B engines from four units in 2025 to 16 power units annually from 2028. A total of 78 TV7-117V engines, plus eight reserve engines, which corresponds to 39 Mi-38 helicopters, are planned to be produced in the Comprehensive Program.

The design of the VK-1600V engine for the Ka-62 helicopter began in 2019, at which time a preliminary design was developed. Calculations of all elements of the power unit’s flow part were performed using 3D optimization techniques, and composite materials and additive technologies are used in its production. In 2020, the technical specification was defended and design documentation for the engine-demonstrator was prepared. In mid-2021, the demonstrator itself was assembled and tested.

The first VK-1600V prototype was manufactured in 2022, and in 2023, UEC-Klimov plans to assemble two more prototype engines. Currently, preparations are underway for a set of certification tests and the release of proof documentation. The start of tests as part of the Ka-62 helicopter is scheduled for June 2024. According to the plan, in 2025 it is expected to receive a type certificate and start serial production of the VK-1600V engine.

UEC notes that the powerplant will have a power output of 1,400 horsepower in takeoff mode and 1,750 horsepower in 2.5-minute power mode. The VK-1600B will have high fuel efficiency and low life cycle cost. According to the Integrated Program, by 2030 it is planned to produce 180 propulsion units, as well as 12 replacement units. This corresponds to the production of 90 Ka-62 helicopters.

The new VK-650V helicopter engine is designed for installation on Ansat and Ka-226T light helicopters. Like the VK-1600V, one of the key features of the VK-650V is the use of 3D-optimization techniques in the development of the flow section. This allows to achieve the optimal shape and geometry of elements, which in turn increases the fuel efficiency of the engine. Another feature is the presence of an autonomous closed-type oil system, which provides reliable lubrication of engine parts and increases its service life.

Work on the VK-650V began in 2018, and in May 2023, a set of tests of the demonstrator was completed. Now specialists of UEC-Klimov conduct engine tests and prepare proof documentation for obtaining a type certificate already in 2024. UEC-Klimov plans to build 10 prototypes in 2025, four of which will be used in flight tests as part of the Ansat helicopter. Also, in the same year it is planned to start delivery of serial engines. According to the Comprehensive Program, from 2025 to 2030, 336 VK-650V power units and 34 substitutes should be produced, which corresponds to the construction of 167 Ansat helicopters and one Ka-226T.

So unless the new PDV4000 will be used in a very high speed helicopter, possibly this could mean that Russia wants to redesign the Mi-38 and make it considerably bigger (about 30% more).

GarryB wrote:Perhaps a PD-8 based turboprop engine could eventually be developed for medium helicopters and perhaps in a four engined version to replace the An-12?

The PD-8 would be used on the Il-212 to replace the An-72 and An-24/25/26, but a turboprop based version with perhaps 5,000hp would be useful too.

GarryB wrote:So it mentions the TV7-117 and the VK-2500 have similar characteristics, it has more power and is good for use at higher altitudes than the TV7-117, but it also has improved fuel system management... so moving forward I would like to see the Russian VK-2500 replace the Soviet TV7-117

GarryB wrote:Well honestly, the Mi-8 and Mi-17 continue to sell and be used around the world so perhaps upping the weight class of the Mi-38 might be a good idea moving forward.


The Mi-8 and Mi-17 are good aircraft even today and could continue to be used for quite some time.

ZMKB "Progress" manufactures parts and components of external piping (pipelines, pipes, fittings, self-made units, cable plan), performs final engine assembly, prepares test benches, tests and overhauls of engines, and also carries out experimental, development and special tests and certification work.

Motor Sich OJSC manufactures a high-pressure compressor, a combustion chamber, a high-pressure turbine, an air starter, an air separator, a start valve and an air bypass valve, incoming parts for piping pipelines, fasteners for engine assembly.

JSC "KMPO" manufactures a low-pressure compressor with a fan, a low-pressure turbine, a rear support with a mixer and stacker, transmission units (KPMA, KSA, c/drive), middle support, engine mounting components, oil system units (oil tank, oil unit, centrifugal breather, etc.), and also purchases purchased components manufactured in the Russian Federation.

KAPO im. S.P. Gorbunova (now called  KAZ) manufactures thrust reversers, jet nozzles, hoods (shells with noise-attenuation panels).