T-90 Main Battle Tank #2

AlexandruC4
@AlexandruC4
·
11h
The most important manufacturer of armored vehicles in Russia - the company Uralvagonzavod - suspends all other activities and switches to mass production of tanks

The most important manufacturer of armored vehicles in Russia - the company Uralvagonzavod - suspends all other activities and switches to mass production of tanks

Instead of suspending work on other activities, perhaps its a better idea to build new facilities to expand tank production while simultaneously working on other important tasks.

It takes years to build new facilities. The need for more tanks is too urgent for that.

Fortunately Russia is building more of everything nowadays

UVZ build record numbers of railcars in the past years. Concentrating on tanks for one or two years doesn´t harm the railway services.

lyle6 wrote:Demand for bulk transport of feedstocks to Europe has cratered so there is actually a surplus in rolling stock.

UVZ is just catering to the demands of the market like good capitalists.

And the market needs less railcars, more tanks.

There are some new production caps open in Russia, including the new territories.
I suppose they could just relocate some of the processes to LDNR factories. I know at least one that was known for a huge share in rail trail business.
All that territory was a fukin industrial giant. It will steadily recover.

In Russia they have OMSK Mash they can build T80 tanks...in UVZ, they have 3 line for tank production,one they use for made T90Ms, one for rebuild and modernized T72tanks and third one they made what they want...its amde for T14, so probably they also made T90Ms on this line...

OMSK also have two lines for made 80s, but for now they just modernized and rebuild old BVs they have it almost 2500 in stock ready for quick modernization and rebuild/repaire....and probably ~1000 witch they can use for easy spare parts for BVs who just go for rebuild/repair not modernisation...

Isos wrote:Uranium tiles won't change anything. You can't protect the side from even basic cold war era apfsds because if you want enough protection you would need just as much armor as on the front so you will end up with a 150t tank. Not realistic.

The M1A2 has uranium tiles on its side. The tank weighs 55 tons.

Russia will have to protect its tanks in Ukraine from Sabot rounds that NATO is providing Ukro Nazis.

Tolstoy wrote:

Isos wrote:Uranium tiles won't change anything. You can't protect the side from even basic cold war era apfsds because if you want enough protection you would need just as much armor as on the front so you will end up with a 150t tank. Not realistic.

The M1A2 has uranium tiles on its side. The tank weighs 55 tons.

Russia will have to protect its tanks in Ukraine from Sabot rounds that NATO is providing Ukro Nazis.

and you think that will protect it ? Any apfsds will go through m1a2 side easily.

The materials that stops anything and is wide 5cm doesn't exist my friend. If you wabt to stop a modern apfsds you need heavy material and a lot of it.

If you wabt to stop a modern apfsds you need heavy material and a lot of it.

Or you intercept the APFSDS and make it yaw before impact and it is like swinging a hammer so hard it goes into the wood with one hit... but if the nail is at an angle all the energy of the hammer goes into bending and crushing the nail and it does not go very far at all into the wood...

The M1A2 has uranium tiles on its side. The tank weighs 55 tons.

Which model Abrams is 55 tons?

The M1 with the 105mm rifled gun was about 55 tons but the M1A1 was 65 tons and the M1A2 is about 73 tons.

Tolstoy wrote:
The M1A2 has uranium tiles on its side. The tank weighs 55 tons.

Russia will have to protect its tanks in Ukraine from Sabot rounds that NATO is providing Ukro Nazis.

Just being curious, can you try to be more pointless?

Nato tanks can't even get to the front to fire their rounds.

Wonder what happened to the Challenger? Really thought it was up for the challenge

Maybe they should consider renaming it

I was thinking Matilda III.

GarryB wrote:

The M1 with the 105mm rifled gun was about 55 tons but the M1A1 was 65 tons and the M1A2 is about 73 tons.

You are mixing the ton(n)s and models.
M1A1 weight is approx. 57000kg, while M1A2 - 62000.
US materials are addressing a TON, that is 2000lbs.
And there is a tonne which is 1000 kilos.
Both are not equal. A tonne is 907kg only.
SEPv2 is 73 tons/66 tonnes.
SEPv3 is more than 68 tonnes, which is 76 tons already.
There is a catch, as for both weight increase is mainly caused by additional equipment like provisions for Troophy APS - v2 get the cabling and mounts even if does not carry the system itself.

GarryB wrote:Or you intercept the APFSDS and make it yaw before impact and it is like swinging a hammer so hard it goes into the wood with one hit... but if the nail is at an angle all the energy of the hammer goes into bending and crushing the nail and it does not go very far at all into the wood...

Gerashimov said on two successive occassions on national TV that Russian tanks are vulnerable to APFSDS rounds.

Since an APS is not available yet the Russian MoD will have to think about novel ways to intercept APFSDS rounds. IDK to what extent an APS will be successful, because Israeli tanks had APS and yet took hits from ATGMs, obviously they can't stop APFSDS rounds.

Tolstoy wrote:

GarryB wrote:Or you intercept the APFSDS and make it yaw before impact and it is like swinging a hammer so hard it goes into the wood with one hit... but if the nail is at an angle all the energy of the hammer goes into bending and crushing the nail and it does not go very far at all into the wood...

Gerashimov said on two successive occassions on national TV that Russian tanks are vulnerable to APFSDS rounds.

Since an APS is not available yet the Russian MoD will have to think about novel ways to intercept APFSDS rounds. IDK to what extent an APS will be successful, because Israeli tanks had APS and yet took hits from ATGMs, obviously they can't stop APFSDS rounds.

Good to know nato tanks are safe from apfsds and have their own physics that applies only to them.

Nato tanks can't even get to the front to fire their rounds.

Very true... suicide drones and land mines are probably more important in this conflict than APFSDS rounds, but the currently used Russian APFSDS are probably good enough. The distances we have seen tanks firing at each other seems to suggest most tanks can defeat most targets anyway.

Wonder what happened to the Challenger? Really thought it was up for the challenge

I seem to remember the British "suggesting" that their tanks not go anywhere near the front lines because of the risk of their capture.

Unlike most of the other tanks supplied that seem to come from stocks, these British tanks are probably front line vehicles with the super secret stuff removed, but still front line things they likely don't want the Russians to get their hands on.

Sending tanks was a gesture on their part but they don't want to risk their tanks reputation... much like the US dragging its feet with Abrams deliveries.

Just saw an article on RT where Zelensky basically said he needs a victory before a HATO meeting on July the 12th or 14th or something to justify continued funding and support from the west, so that is interesting.

Another article mentioned that this big counter offensive was supposed to push the Russian forces back so far they can move artillery up and threaten the Black Sea Fleet HQ in Sevastopol so they have some leverage going into peace talks...

https://www.rt.com/russia/579038-ukraine-battlefield-results-nato-summit/

https://www.rt.com/russia/579018-ukraine-crimea-hostage-plan/

And now they are demanding membership in HATO....

https://www.rt.com/russia/579062-kuleba-nato-merkel-ukraine/

Which is great... it means Russia cannot leave the current idiots in power no matter what tiny sliver of land is left.

You are mixing the ton(n)s and models.
M1A1 weight is approx. 57000kg, while M1A2 - 62000.
US materials are addressing a TON, that is 2000lbs.
And there is a tonne which is 1000 kilos.
Both are not equal. A tonne is 907kg only.

You are correct, but in my defence when you add the four man crew they get much closer to my figures than to yours...      

Gerashimov said on two successive occassions on national TV that Russian tanks are vulnerable to APFSDS rounds.

All tanks are vulnerable to APFSDS rounds when fired from close range. The goal of tank designers is not to make a super tank that can't be penetrated by anything... that would make it too heavy and too slow which would make it rather more likely to be hit.

The goal of most traditional tank designers is the front 60 degree angle to stop the main gun rounds of the enemy tank, the sides to stop the main calibre auto cannon rounds of the enemy and for the rear to stop HMG rounds.

They don't always achieve this performance.

Remember the 30mm cannon on the A-10 can penetrate most tanks because it generally hits the roof of the turret and the engine deck so a 30mm AP round has a chance to penetrate from the top.

That doesn't mean the best gun for a US tank is the 30mm gatling on the A-10 because mounted on a tank it will be trying to penetrate the front or side or rear armour which is thicker than the roof armour.

The 30mm round of the A-10 is only slightly more powerful than the standard Soviet 30 x 165mm, the A-10 round is a 30 x 173mm shell. In comparison the Soviet Navy had a 30 x 210mmR cartridge on their old CIWS mounts. It had two separate barrels but otherwise looked like the Dalek guns.

Since an APS is not available yet the Russian MoD will have to think about novel ways to intercept APFSDS rounds.

Or they could take advantage of their superiority in air power and drones and when enemy tanks are spotted they could use ATGMs to destroy them or work out which roads they are going to be driving down and launch minefields in their path and behind them and either side of their position so the enemy tanks never get close enough to even use their APFSDS rounds... they can also use suicide drones to destroy them well before they get to use their main guns too... and if they decide to stop with minefields all around them afraid to move then a Grad or Smerch battery can shower them in HEAT warheads from the sky.

IDK to what extent an APS will be successful, because Israeli tanks had APS and yet took hits from ATGMs, obviously they can't stop APFSDS rounds.

No APS system is perfect, but once they get them into service they can work out the bugs and improve them and make their armoured vehicles even better and safer... but there is no such thing as absolutely safe in war.

NATO is actually on record that even their best shells have trouble piercing Russian armor. And they're not supplying Ukraine with their best.

The British supplied DU APFSDS rounds because that was the only type they had and their HESH are useless against any vehicle with add on armour with any cavities... which would include ERA blocks.

You can give Ukrainians T-14s and it still wouldn't change the outcome. Its that one-sided at this point.

Which makes western claims so amusing... oh if we give them Leopards it will turn the tide and they can win... or Javelin, or Brimstone, or Storm Shadow, or MLRS, or HIMARS, or M777, or NLAW, or Stinger, or Starstreak, or IRS-T, or NASAMS, or Patriot, or F-16...  if they had a free press it would have mentioned the fact that all these game changers have just led to more Orcs dying on a battlefield they can't win... even if their planners had some idea of what they were doing...

I have a feeling that in the next few decades the exPAT Ukrainians will talk about this conflict the way the Aussies and Kiwis talk about the quality of British military minds during WWI... and if you don't understand that try watching the entire Blackadder goes forth series... it is very educational... isn't it sad where the truth can only be shown in a comedy.... in the UK and US...

Good to know nato tanks are safe from apfsds and have their own physics that applies only to them.

Reminds me of a comment my friend made... he said when he was on holiday in Australia he asked a local if there were any sharks where he was intending to go for a morning swim. The Aussie had a big smile on his face and said this far up the river there are no sharks at all... because the gators eat them...

Western tanks face all the full range of Russian and Soviet weapons designed to destroy them, but also the mud and the fact that each type of western tank has different engines and wheels and guns and ammo and spare parts, none of which is compatible and how much support equipment did they send and is that safe from a visit in the night by Kh-101s because Russian satellites notice damaged western tanks keep getting sent to this large building in the west of the Ukraine... and then come back out headed to the new eastern front...

GarryB wrote:All tanks are vulnerable to APFSDS rounds when fired from close range.

When fired from close range tanks are vulnerable to all types of rounds, APFSDS rounds are not an exception.

The point that Gerasinov made to Россия-1 was interesting because he said Russian tanks have had the better of Ukranian tanks throughout the conflict but now western MBTs capable of firing APFSDS rounds and an increase in Ukro ATGM units launching top attack ATGMs does call for Russia to change tactics and adopt novel technologies.

Equiping T 72s with a roof rack filled with ERA tiles is probably one such novel technology. I suspect we will see similar technologies designed to nullify APFSDS rounds.

GarryB wrote:
Western tanks face all the full range of Russian and Soviet weapons designed to destroy them, but also the mud and the fact that each type of western tank has different engines and wheels and guns and ammo and spare parts, none of which is compatible and how much support equipment did they send and is that safe from a visit in the night by Kh-101s because Russian satellites notice damaged western tanks keep getting sent to this large building in the west of the Ukraine... and then come back out headed to the new eastern front...

This war called all the myths build by the western propaganda for the last decades.
And it is hell of fun to watch, if only not the human tragedy behind it.
The general opinion of how Russkie are behind in technology, and how the Western gear is superior faded away like a fog, no matter how much propaganda was unleashed to cover the facts.
Have you noticed how the whole narrative has changed?
When have you heard of "Russkie will run out of..." mantra last time?

Remember of how the western audience was shocked when they have examined the Ch-101 debris? It turned out that the missile has own countermeasures on board, including active and chaff/flare dispensers.
It puts the missile not only well ahead of any existing US/NATO made cruise missile, but was unimaginable till the very moment. Nobody figured that a single usage, low cost missile will hold a defensive suite. Not "some suite", but one effective enough to fool multiple missiles - what we have witnessed multiple times.
Overall, the percentage of Ukro AD malfunctioning can be addressed to that.
What we are hearing now, is general acknowledge that Russia has the most modern and potent ECM tools, and NATO can't match them. Well, people who are close to the military matters due to professional connections knew that for a decade at least. Stories of how Russkie can turn off the AWACS, or just jamm the satellite, or make some area invisible for all the tools are floating around for a long time. But now we have that officially.
There is more and more Russkie Wunderwaffe emerging in the western media. Sure, it is a part of general cover up of the defeat, to tame the audience. Soon, the narrative of "powerful Soviet ... o pardon, Russian army" that "tiny Ukraine couldn't stand" will start - it already has, actually.

We can't forget that from the Russian perspective, it is still a special military operation, with all pros and cons. This biggest war in the last 40 years is being fought by PMC, national guard, police, and some 1/5th of army units on hand.
In the background, there is a massive build up of an army.
Prigozin was right when he said once, that the enemy has not clashed with Russian army yet - the heavy one. The one that will be used as a roller, and nothing will stand after. It is a matter of political decision only, and acceptance for increased casualty rate.

The point that Gerasinov made to Россия-1 was interesting because he said Russian tanks have had the better of Ukranian tanks throughout the conflict but now western MBTs capable of firing APFSDS rounds and an increase in Ukro ATGM units launching top attack ATGMs does call for Russia to change tactics and adopt novel technologies.

Equiping T 72s with a roof rack filled with ERA tiles is probably one such novel technology. I suspect we will see similar technologies designed to nullify APFSDS rounds.

Russia has quite a few different APS systems and together with ERA and NERA and other technologies as well as composite main armour Russian tanks are probably potentially the best armoured vehicles on the planet, but the fact that very few APS systems are deployed on Russian vehicles means this is theory and not reality.

Certainly the threat of western vehicles and their supposed superiority would require Russia to step up what they send to combat, that is just common sense, but the best solution to enemy APFSDS is to destroy enemy armour before it reaches the point of contact with Russian vehicles... so suicide drones and ATGMs launched from aircraft and of course the humble mine which can destroy the best armoured vehicles very easily and cheaply.

Russia has an enormous range of land mines that can be delivered by rocket or bomb that sits and waits till it detects targets and actively launches towards them and attacks them with top attack munitions...

...like this:

The one that will be used as a roller, and nothing will stand after. It is a matter of political decision only, and acceptance for increased casualty rate.

Continued escalation by the west will eventually make that necessary, but in the mean time there is a chance for a massive blood bath after a failed mass offensive that the people of the Ukraine might decide they need new management and new international patrons that even if they don't give a shit about them at the moment, at least are human... and wont trade the lives of Ukrainians for MIC profits.

GarryB wrote:
Russia has quite a few different APS systems and together with ERA and NERA and other technologies as well as composite main armour Russian tanks are probably potentially the best armoured vehicles on the planet, but the fact that very few APS systems are deployed on Russian vehicles means this is theory and not reality.

You are addressing someone who thinks that "DU" is the final answer to every question.
Using a 2+ letters acronyms might be challenging, you know.

The irony is that Russia has better uranium processing technology so give them 1,000 Abrams tanks with DU armour suites and Russia could make them much lighter and also power American houses for a couple of centuries on the useful Uranium they can extract.

They will have breeder reactors that can enrich the DU and make it usable fuel rod material again... that will be essentially fully recyclable and vastly more valuable as an energy resource than as an armour plate or round of ammo...

GarryB wrote:The irony is that Russia has better uranium processing technology so give them 1,000 Abrams tanks with DU armour suites and Russia could make them much lighter and also power American houses for a couple of centuries on the useful Uranium they can extract.

They will have breeder reactors that can enrich the DU and make it usable fuel rod material again... that will be essentially fully recyclable and vastly more valuable as an energy resource than as an armour plate or round of ammo...

The real irony is, that we have again and again the same repetition, with just new/different western Wunderwaffe proving itself a crap.

The myth of Leopard is gone. Done.
Just take a look at the wreckages.
This tank was build with only frontal protection in mind, and now it proves. Side coverage is pathetic, top/roof coverage is pathetic. Tank burns like a torch if hit by artillery fire - and that must not be a direct hit.
Imagine that both side ant top armor protection of any single tank in Russia now, doubles the L2 even without ERA.

And guess what - Leopard 2 is a tank that was actually made BETTER than M1. And much better than CH2.
Germans didn't spare like Muricans, and didn't have the stupid ideas of Brits.
If there will be M1A1 confronted, those won't stand an hour against Russkies. They will just devastate them.

FORTY ONE L2s frosted in 3 weeks - and that is official Ukro data, which means that they simply don't have any L2s left. All are scrap.
A whole Polish stock is 240 L2s, while Germany owns about 330 - not sure how many in workable condition as they have cannibalized them for two decades.
Russkie are pumping out 30+ fresh new tanks a WEEK, and only heating up.
Who wants a good joke?