Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #9

I don't think this image is correct. It shows a possible load of 42 x FAB-250m.


However based on the hardpoints it can 'only' carry 22 of them. With each weighing 219kg (4.818kg) that is still a huge weight to lift.


I also noticed that the TU-22M only drops a few bombs each run instead of a full load (9,000 kg). Is this because the distance from Russia to Syria can only be covered by the TU-22M long range capability? If so the base in Iran would make the TU-22 unnecessary since the SU-34 takes over the role, or they still use the TU-22 but with much higher loads than we have seen before.

''Russian Warships Launch Cruise Missiles on al-Nusra Front Targets in Syria''

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160819/1044435044/russia-fleet-cruise-missiles-syria.html

^

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:And even if they do (which US probably does), wouldn't make much of a difference since it takes time to decode messages, then transfer to the terrorists, and then terrorists prepping to leave. Russian aircraft and bombs would reach the enemy far sooner. Satellite footage isn't like hollywood, it needs to be in position and there is always a delay in information being translated and sent to the viewer.  And satellite images do not just disappear because you have another airbase, since Iran is spied on 24/7.  All this is, is giving Russia another location to fly heavier bombers from, and bomb targets. Rather than bringing those Tu-22M from direct Russia or into the Russian airbase in Syria.

The main issue here is that it's not the US that has a direct channel with JaF or ex-JaN, it's Turkey.

And you know this how exactly? Yeah, the US doesn't share a direct channel with the radicals, they only support "moderates". Do you honestly think the US doesn't have a spiderweb of intel-sharing and control over every anti-Syrian opposition force in the region? Come on man. That's why they almost lost some of their blokes on the ground recently to a VKS strike, they bitched to high heaven about it as I recall.

I know that because the "moderates" have a long history of having direct relations with US "friends", then ending up dead from a "rival" group attack. In the last two years the "moderates" have pust space between them and the US "help", this spacing has been done by Turkey, that now is in charge of commo with Ahrar and JaN/Jaf. For Aleppo if the US was the one talking, we wouldn't have had such glorious impact of the VKS the two first days of attack (including direct hits on assault groups).  And no the US doesn't do micro-managment. It does top down control, it sponsors bigger structures, not individual groups. Now this doesn't mean they aren't responsible for "leaks" to groups, after all they know when Turkey does its shit. But to accuse the US of directly talking with AQ regarding Aleppo is stupid, not because the US doesn't want to talk with AQ, but because AQ doesn't want to become the next target for the US. Every tool exceeds its usefulness at some point. The beardies know this...

I was assuming you meant the US has no contact at all with Daesh/JaN/Jaf/FSA/AQ/Mujis/WTFTheirNameIsToday. I totally agree the US is topdown with their approach, but I am also completely convinced that they coordinate with every anti-Assad force in the region when possible, be that Blackbeards, Greenbeards, Bluebeards or Yellowbeards. I am not meaning micro per se, simply people on the ground talking with their (Moderates™) "General Staff". There is no moderate force, not anymore, so one has to ask who they're talking with outside of the PKK. I also am pretty sure the SDF is not a sizeable or capable force in any way, it is simply buffed by copious amounts of US boots-on-ground. The battle for Aleppo is a key victory, the US will be using AQ and co. to maximum effect at the moment. This isn't about the US controlling Aleppo, this is about not letting Syria control Aleppo, they don't give a dime whether or not they'll have to liberate it from Daesh later on down the track, and Daesh are way too many sandwiches short of a picnic to realize they're being used.

The US either want Aleppo held (not feasible), or they want Aviators Inc.'s victory to be Pyrrhic (very feasible). Any communication between Uncle Smeagle and his bearded man-children will be in overdrive right now. The intensification of propaganda just in the last 24hours demonstrates this as well.

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:And even if they do (which US probably does), wouldn't make much of a difference since it takes time to decode messages, then transfer to the terrorists, and then terrorists prepping to leave. Russian aircraft and bombs would reach the enemy far sooner. Satellite footage isn't like hollywood, it needs to be in position and there is always a delay in information being translated and sent to the viewer.  And satellite images do not just disappear because you have another airbase, since Iran is spied on 24/7.  All this is, is giving Russia another location to fly heavier bombers from, and bomb targets. Rather than bringing those Tu-22M from direct Russia or into the Russian airbase in Syria.

The main issue here is that it's not the US that has a direct channel with JaF or ex-JaN, it's Turkey.

And you know this how exactly? Yeah, the US doesn't share a direct channel with the radicals, they only support "moderates". Do you honestly think the US doesn't have a spiderweb of intel-sharing and control over every anti-Syrian opposition force in the region? Come on man. That's why they almost lost some of their blokes on the ground recently to a VKS strike, they bitched to high heaven about it as I recall.

I know that because the "moderates" have a long history of having direct relations with US "friends", then ending up dead from a "rival" group attack. In the last two years the "moderates" have pust space between them and the US "help", this spacing has been done by Turkey, that now is in charge of commo with Ahrar and JaN/Jaf. For Aleppo if the US was the one talking, we wouldn't have had such glorious impact of the VKS the two first days of attack (including direct hits on assault groups).  And no the US doesn't do micro-managment. It does top down control, it sponsors bigger structures, not individual groups. Now this doesn't mean they aren't responsible for "leaks" to groups, after all they know when Turkey does its shit. But to accuse the US of directly talking with AQ regarding Aleppo is stupid, not because the US doesn't want to talk with AQ, but because AQ doesn't want to become the next target for the US. Every tool exceeds its usefulness at some point. The beardies know this...

I was assuming you meant the US has no contact at all with Daesh/JaN/Jaf/FSA/AQ/Mujis/WTFTheirNameIsToday. I totally agree the US is topdown with their approach, but I am also completely convinced that they coordinate with every anti-Assad force in the region when possible, be that Blackbeards, Greenbeards, Bluebeards or Yellowbeards. I am not meaning micro per se, simply people on the ground talking with their (Moderates™) "General Staff". There is no moderate force, not anymore, so one has to ask who they're talking with outside of the PKK. I also am pretty sure the SDF is not a sizeable or capable force in any way, it is simply buffed by copious amounts of US boots-on-ground. The battle for Aleppo is a key victory, the US will be using AQ and co. to maximum effect at the moment. This isn't about the US controlling Aleppo, this is about not letting Syria control Aleppo, they don't give a dime whether or not they'll have to liberate it from Daesh later on down the track, and Daesh are way too many sandwiches short of a picnic to realize they're being used.

The US either want Aleppo held (not feasible), or they want Aviators Inc.'s victory to be Pyrrhic (very feasible). Any communication between Uncle Smeagle and his bearded man-children will be in overdrive right now. The intensification of propaganda just in the last 24hours demonstrates this as well.

Also they're not talking to the PKK, while Russia is. They talk to a sister structure, but not PKK. Also I can hardly try and sell you the lemon that the US doesn't talk to the beardies, since not farther than a month ago TOW's were found with 2015 US calibration dates...It just doesn't do direct talk with them anymore. While "FSA" and "NySa" yes they do. Also on "SDF" the problem is more complex. There the US talks directly while Turkey doesn't.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:

sepheronx wrote:And even if they do (which US probably does), wouldn't make much of a difference since it takes time to decode messages, then transfer to the terrorists, and then terrorists prepping to leave. Russian aircraft and bombs would reach the enemy far sooner. Satellite footage isn't like hollywood, it needs to be in position and there is always a delay in information being translated and sent to the viewer.  And satellite images do not just disappear because you have another airbase, since Iran is spied on 24/7.  All this is, is giving Russia another location to fly heavier bombers from, and bomb targets. Rather than bringing those Tu-22M from direct Russia or into the Russian airbase in Syria.

The main issue here is that it's not the US that has a direct channel with JaF or ex-JaN, it's Turkey.

And you know this how exactly? Yeah, the US doesn't share a direct channel with the radicals, they only support "moderates". Do you honestly think the US doesn't have a spiderweb of intel-sharing and control over every anti-Syrian opposition force in the region? Come on man. That's why they almost lost some of their blokes on the ground recently to a VKS strike, they bitched to high heaven about it as I recall.

I know that because the "moderates" have a long history of having direct relations with US "friends", then ending up dead from a "rival" group attack. In the last two years the "moderates" have pust space between them and the US "help", this spacing has been done by Turkey, that now is in charge of commo with Ahrar and JaN/Jaf. For Aleppo if the US was the one talking, we wouldn't have had such glorious impact of the VKS the two first days of attack (including direct hits on assault groups).  And no the US doesn't do micro-managment. It does top down control, it sponsors bigger structures, not individual groups. Now this doesn't mean they aren't responsible for "leaks" to groups, after all they know when Turkey does its shit. But to accuse the US of directly talking with AQ regarding Aleppo is stupid, not because the US doesn't want to talk with AQ, but because AQ doesn't want to become the next target for the US. Every tool exceeds its usefulness at some point. The beardies know this...

I was assuming you meant the US has no contact at all with Daesh/JaN/Jaf/FSA/AQ/Mujis/WTFTheirNameIsToday. I totally agree the US is topdown with their approach, but I am also completely convinced that they coordinate with every anti-Assad force in the region when possible, be that Blackbeards, Greenbeards, Bluebeards or Yellowbeards. I am not meaning micro per se, simply people on the ground talking with their (Moderates™) "General Staff". There is no moderate force, not anymore, so one has to ask who they're talking with outside of the PKK. I also am pretty sure the SDF is not a sizeable or capable force in any way, it is simply buffed by copious amounts of US boots-on-ground. The battle for Aleppo is a key victory, the US will be using AQ and co. to maximum effect at the moment. This isn't about the US controlling Aleppo, this is about not letting Syria control Aleppo, they don't give a dime whether or not they'll have to liberate it from Daesh later on down the track, and Daesh are way too many sandwiches short of a picnic to realize they're being used.

The US either want Aleppo held (not feasible), or they want Aviators Inc.'s victory to be Pyrrhic (very feasible). Any communication between Uncle Smeagle and his bearded man-children will be in overdrive right now. The intensification of propaganda just in the last 24hours demonstrates this as well.

Also they're not talking to the PKK, while Russia is. They talk to a sister structure, but not PKK. Also I can hardly try and sell you the lemon that the US doesn't talk to the beardies, since not farther than a month ago TOW's were found with 2015 US calibration dates...It just doesn't do direct talk with them anymore. While "FSA" and "NySa" yes they do. Also on "SDF" the problem is more complex. There the US talks directly while Turkey doesn't.

Oh I see. We're getting caught up in the "direct-talk" jargon. My bad, I certainly don't think they have instructors in the field, as that is far too risky (Steve Jobs being everywhere these days). I simply mean there is coordination on some level at all times, be that in Incirlik, some Saudi palace, or in a bunker in Syria. They have a web of communication set up, with a hierarchy that probably leaves the US looking like they were never involved. Turkey (maybe that's going to change now) /Saudi/Jordan make plausible deniability very very easy.

It seems that FAB-3000 bombs have been used around Aleppo. Ouch

http://nortwolf-sam.livejournal.com/1434490.html

However based on the hardpoints it can 'only' carry 22 of them. With each weighing 219kg (4.818kg) that is still a huge weight to lift.

FAB-250s are about 250kgs, so 22 would be 5,500kgs.

It seems that FAB-3000 bombs have been used around Aleppo. Ouch

Glad to not be under that...

Will be interesting if they use those old stocks up what new model weapons will be like...

Russia really needs to up the RC department. Even Iraqi Shia Arabs have these now.

Hahahaha... have you even watched that video?

Teflon Armour?

I suppose that is so any blood stains it gets on it will be easily cleaned off afterwards...

And the 12.7mm thermal cannon?

Looks like a WWII DShKM 12.7mm Heavy machine gun to me...

Remote control armoured vehicles are not that new... even in WWII there were remote control vehicles used to deliver bombs into enemy positions...

Actually having one that would be any use is something else.

Syria has enormous potential for testing new systems, but lets not be stupid and just send in crap because someone else is doing it too.

Iran kicked Russia out of Hamedan air base.

Quick in quick out.

Syria Mission Complete: Russian Air Force Returns From Iran’s Hamadan Airfield

Russian aircraft involved in airstrikes against the Daesh jihadist group last week have returned home
from western Iran after successfully completing their tasks, the Russian Defense Ministry spokesman said Monday.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said further use of the Hamadan airfield for Russia’s anti-terrorist mission in Syria
would be carried out in line with bilateral agreements with the Islamic republic and events on the ground.

"Russian military aircraft that took part in the operation of conducting airstrikes
from Iran's Hamadan air base on terrorist targets in Syria have successfully completed all the tasks.
Currently, all the Aerospace Forces aircraft involved in the mission are on Russian territory," he told reporters.

"Continued use of the Hamadan air base in the Islamic Republic of Iran by the Russian Aerospace Forces
will be carried out on the basis of mutual agreements to combat terrorism and depending on the unfolding situation in Syria," Konashenkov said.

On August 16, Russia used the Iranian base for the first time in its anti-terrorism campaign in Syria.
Russian Tu-22M3 long-range bombers and Su-34 strike aircraft carried out airstrikes against the jihadist groups
Daesh and the Jabhat Fatah Al-Sham, formerly known as the Nusra Front, in Syria.

www.sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160822/1044520198/russia-iran-hamadan.html

Russia needs to stop being a penny pincher and arm SAA with some Kords instead of 1930s DShKs. America always supply the best arms to its proxies.

zepia wrote:Quick in quick out.

Syria Mission Complete: Russian Air Force Returns From Iran’s Hamadan Airfield

Russian aircraft involved in airstrikes against the Daesh jihadist group last week have returned home
from western Iran after successfully completing their tasks, the Russian Defense Ministry spokesman said Monday.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said further use of the Hamadan airfield for Russia’s anti-terrorist mission in Syria
would be carried out in line with bilateral agreements with the Islamic republic and events on the ground.

"Russian military aircraft that took part in the operation of conducting airstrikes
from Iran's Hamadan air base on terrorist targets in Syria have successfully completed all the tasks.
Currently, all the Aerospace Forces aircraft involved in the mission are on Russian territory," he told reporters.

"Continued use of the Hamadan air base in the Islamic Republic of Iran by the Russian Aerospace Forces
will be carried out on the basis of mutual agreements to combat terrorism and depending on the unfolding situation in Syria," Konashenkov said.

On August 16, Russia used the Iranian base for the first time in its anti-terrorism campaign in Syria.
Russian Tu-22M3 long-range bombers and Su-34 strike aircraft carried out airstrikes against the jihadist groups
Daesh and the Jabhat Fatah Al-Sham, formerly known as the Nusra Front, in Syria.

www.sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160822/1044520198/russia-iran-hamadan.html

Yikes, how embarrassing.

zorobabel wrote:

zepia wrote:Quick in quick out.

Syria Mission Complete: Russian Air Force Returns From Iran’s Hamadan Airfield

Russian aircraft involved in airstrikes against the Daesh jihadist group last week have returned home
from western Iran after successfully completing their tasks, the Russian Defense Ministry spokesman said Monday.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said further use of the Hamadan airfield for Russia’s anti-terrorist mission in Syria
would be carried out in line with bilateral agreements with the Islamic republic and events on the ground.

"Russian military aircraft that took part in the operation of conducting airstrikes
from Iran's Hamadan air base on terrorist targets in Syria have successfully completed all the tasks.
Currently, all the Aerospace Forces aircraft involved in the mission are on Russian territory," he told reporters.

"Continued use of the Hamadan air base in the Islamic Republic of Iran by the Russian Aerospace Forces
will be carried out on the basis of mutual agreements to combat terrorism and depending on the unfolding situation in Syria," Konashenkov said.

On August 16, Russia used the Iranian base for the first time in its anti-terrorism campaign in Syria.
Russian Tu-22M3 long-range bombers and Su-34 strike aircraft carried out airstrikes against the jihadist groups
Daesh and the Jabhat Fatah Al-Sham, formerly known as the Nusra Front, in Syria.

www.sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160822/1044520198/russia-iran-hamadan.html

Yikes, how embarrassing.

Embarrassing what?

"Continued use of the Hamadan air base in the Islamic Republic of Iran by the Russian Aerospace Forces
will be carried out on the basis of mutual agreements to combat terrorism and depending on the unfolding situation in Syria," Konashenkov said.

So claims they were "kicked out" are bullshit.

They have permission to use it when they need to but wont keep aircraft there all the time.

Sounds pretty consistent with Iranian law which forbids the permanent basing of foreign military forces on their soil.

Russia needs to stop being a penny pincher and arm SAA with some Kords instead of 1930s DShKs. America always supply the best arms to its proxies.

It has nothing to do with penny pinching... why would Russia supply a weapon the Arabs don't have in service, don't know how to operate, and have no spare parts or mounts for?

A DShKM delivers a 12.7mm projectile the same as a Kord, there would be no clear advantage to providing Kord instead of weapons they already have an are already familiar with.

At least the DShKM does not have the timing and head space issues that the US 50 cal does.

eehnie wrote:

zorobabel wrote:
Yikes, how embarrassing.

Embarrassing what?

Because Iran's account of the issue completely conflicts with Russia's.

Russia MOD is a joke. Seriously. What the hell man? Reporting reconciliation with 4 ant hills in Latakia.

Within last 24 hours, truce agreements have been signed with representatives of 4 inhabited areas in the Latakia province.

https://www.facebook.com/1492252324350852/photos/a.1492313031011448.1073741828.1492252324350852/1788504408058974/?type=3&theater

Don't feed the trolls.

Good analysis of the Russian move in and out of Iran. Looks like pretty nimble footwork by Moscow again.

http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/08/deciphering-russian-withdrawal-from.html

JohninMK wrote:Good analysis of the Russian move in and out of Iran. Looks like pretty nimble footwork by Moscow again.

http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/08/deciphering-russian-withdrawal-from.html

Nimble footwork, need for which was cause entirely by Iranian stupidity.

I don't buy this article for a second. Iran wanted VKS to defy Darvinian laws and keep their morons on the ground alive but got cold feet and came up with some BS story about Russia disrespecting them and not keeping deployment of full sized strategic bombers a secret.

Or maybe they got butthurt because Turks got their heads out of their asses and started talking to Russia again. Legendary mid-east pettiness.

We still have morons here like Vann who keep ranting about how Russia should deploy ground troops in this swamp and ''solve this for good''. With morons like SAA and Iran on your side it would be ''perfect''.

I believe that Russia's decision to keep the military footprint here to bare minimum will go down in history as smartest and most intelligent decision ever made by any middle eastern player.

Russia alrady achieved 90% of it's objectives here so what needs to be done now is to detach Latakia and Damascus and create independent state of Do What You Are Fucking Told.

Assad should suffer skiing accident so someone not retarded could take over.

East Syria can burn for next several decades which should keep the local morons busy. VKS can use that region for target practice from time to time just to make sure no unauthorized pipelines get built.

Kurds should be served to Turks on the silver platter. After the bullshit Kurds pulled of recently there is no need whatsoever to keep them alive. I detest Turks but at least dealing with them has potential for monetary benefit if nothing else. And we all know Turks will not pass up opportunity to tweak those rats.

As for Iran I am sure their air force is ready to enter the fray with zeal and bring instant victory to their cause. They are probably on their way now as we speak.

PapaDragon wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Good analysis of the Russian move in and out of Iran. Looks like pretty nimble footwork by Moscow again.

http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/08/deciphering-russian-withdrawal-from.html

Nimble footwork, need for which was cause entirely by Iranian stupidity.

I don't buy this article for a second. Iran wanted VKS to defy Darvinian laws and keep their morons on the ground alive but got cold feet and came up with some BS story about Russia disrespecting them and not keeping deployment of full sized strategic bombers a secret.

Or maybe they got butthurt because Turks got their heads out of their asses and started talking to Russia again. Legendary mid-east pettiness.

We still have morons here like Vann who keep ranting about how Russia should deploy ground troops in this swamp and ''solve this for good''. With morons like SAA and Iran on your side it would be ''perfect''.

I believe that Russia's decision to keep the military footprint here to bare minimum will go down in history as smartest and most intelligent decision ever made by any middle eastern player.

Russia alrady achieved 90% of it's objectives here so what needs to be done now is to detach Latakia and Damascus and create independent state of Do What You Are Fucking Told.

Assad should suffer skiing accident so someone not retarded could take over.

East Syria can burn for next several decades which should keep the local morons busy. VKS can use that region for target practice from time to time just to make sure no unauthorized pipelines get built.

Kurds should be served to Turks on the silver platter. After the bullshit Kurds pulled of recently there is no need whatsoever to keep them alive. I detest Turks but at least dealing with them has potential for monetary benefit if nothing else. And we all know Turks will not pass up opportunity to tweak those rats.

As for Iran I am sure their air force is ready to enter the fray with zeal and bring instant victory to their cause. They are probably on their way now as we speak.

BS. You think you can hold Latakia without Aleppo? You are delusional. Moscow would be bombed if jihadists are not wiped out in Syria.

Krasnopol has been in use:

In Syria, for the first time applied the Russian guided projectiles "Krasnopol"