[Official] Armata Discussion thread #1

GarryB wrote:The old multi turreted tanks made sense when armour was thin and a 37mm or 45mm gun was enough to penetrate enemy tanks.

The central gun was artillery while the odd turrets were MG equipped leaving two turrets with anti armour weapons in the form early on of 37mm and later 45mm guns.

Personally, I thought two turrets in the front hull corners with a PKT MG and a 40mm grenade launcher would have been an excellent if expensive addition to the T-90 based BMPT shown.

With light weapons the turrets could have a wide field of fire... perhaps up to 225 degrees horizontal and -15 to plus 90 degrees in elevation from very close in out to 1.2km for the PKT and 2.5km for the 40m grenade launcher.

The BMPT vehicle had a crew of 5 anyway and with proper turrets instead of bow guns targets at greater angles could be engaged so the vehicle could fire upon more than just a couple of targets at once (ie in front and where ever the turret is pointed)...

Most soft targets can be dealt with using 7.62mm fire and where targets are better protected or behind cover the small HE bursting grenades would do the job.

Doing away with the bow guns you could get rid of the two extra gunners and with a crew of three perhaps a central front hull mounted small turret with a PKT and 40mm grenade launcher that is controlled by the driver might be useful.

With a PKT on the commanders main sight this would pretty much mean each of the three crewmen would have access to a weapon to immediately fire on any target that wanders into view immediately without having to worry about turning the turret.

In terms of size and weight a 23mm cannon based on the KPV (KPB?) mounted next to the MBTs main gun would offer cannon level HE power in a compact low recoil weapon whose compact ammo could be carried in large quantities.

Mindstorm wrote:
Unified heavy platform "Armata" comfirm at today all technical requirements set by MoD.


http://vpk.name/news/112104_gosispyitaniya_bronetankovoi_tehniki_armata_podtverzhdayut_tehharakteristiki_platformyi.html

State Trials of Armata is still to be completed

"This new generation tank. It has no analogues neither we nor abroad. The crew is completely isolated from the crew compartment in a peculiar bronekapsuly. Manage the most computerized.


The tank is fitted satellite navigation. The obtaining of information from unmanned aerial vehicles. "Armata" fits well with the concept of network-centric battle management. It really is a breakthrough in terms of tank implemented in the technologies involved, and a real breakthrough tank "- said O.Sienko.


He noted that "Armata" is designed as a single platform for a wide range of combat vehicles for various purposes ranging from engineering to health and artillery and rocket. "

Austin wrote:New Tank "Armata" has no foreign counterparts

Олег Сиенко wrote:Пушка отличается высокой скорострельностью и точностью стрельбы на дальности до 16 км. Она может уверенно поражать не только наземные цели, но и воздушные

Олег Сиенко wrote:Между тем наши расчеты показали, что именно 57 мм пушки должны хорошо работать практически по всем типам беспилотных летательных аппаратов

high capability to engage aerial targets and in particular UAVs on any kinds 

Any idea what is the effective altitude of this 57 mm Gun , The range is 16 km but what is the max effective altitude ?

Also the Atom-2 is interesting , it wont be French which other country it will be ? China ?

Mindstorm wrote:

Austin wrote:New Tank "Armata" has no foreign counterparts

Yes Austin but , in mine opinion,  the most interesting  news coming out from the full interview


http://www.arms-expo.ru/news/aviasalony_i_vystavki/gendirektor_uralvagonzavoda_oleg_sienko_svoimi_vagonami_my_gordimsya_ne_menshe_chem_tankami/

is the specifics (and some hints the its CONOP) of the 57 mm АУ-220М mounted now on ATOM IFV : it show an engagement range of 16 km and seem that its selection has been the fruit of analysis showing high capability to engage aerial targets and in particular UAVs on any kinds  

Олег Сиенко wrote:Пушка отличается высокой скорострельностью и точностью стрельбы на дальности до 16 км. Она может уверенно поражать не только наземные цели, но и воздушные

Олег Сиенко wrote:Между тем наши расчеты показали, что именно 57 мм пушки должны хорошо работать практически по всем типам беспилотных летательных аппаратов

This simple factor - capability to engage very cheaply and at enormously exapanded ranges small flying vehicles ,such UAVs, capable to change quickly direction in the 3D - point openly :


1) To the capability, by part of similar veichles to capitalise the vastly increased capabilities of its main weapon system through the authonomous acquisition and processiing -through mostly optical channel and improved ballistic computing systems - or through third party reception of networked informations stream on target positional data ,  also for flying vehicles like UAV/UCAV capables to swiftly change position in the 3D axis.


2) To the capability to engage reliably PGMs ,in particular high precision gliding bombs, characterized by very limited closing speed and almost not existent capability to "challenge" the defeating zone of the 57 mm АУ-220М's bursts, moving outside the computed kill zone with sharp maneuvers. .
Equally important : the greatly exapanded kill zone will not only allow the re-engagements on all the incoming flying targets eventually survivng the first attempt but also to engage some kind of PGMs (at example a CBU-97) long before them will come in the zone useful for the delivering of theirs sub-munitions



Very likely those impovements (together with new depelopments in the munition technology in this particular class of guns) will deeply influence not only the caliber of choice for the main medium caliber weapon of the future Armata/Kurganet/Boomerang brigades but the same basis concept of ground force protection's doctrine for the foreseeable future.
 

Zivo wrote:IMO, the 57mm was adopted to take on the west's new generation of heavy IFV's.

A 57mm APFSDS would make swiss cheese of anything that doesn't have MBT frontal level protection. It wouldn't make much sense to use a 57/125mm coaxial configuration as the 125 is the main anti-armor weapon.

magnumcromagnon wrote:
Remember the Armata MBT will be modular in nature and it'll probably have multiple load outs. The 125mm gun will be for enemy tanks while the 57mm gun would be for everything else, in a low intensity conflict fighting an asymmetrical insurgency the Armata BMPT will pick up most of the slack while Armata MBT will still play a role.

magnumcromagnon wrote:
Future conflicts may see cheap suicide mini-helicopter drones being employed by insurgents with shaped charges strapped to the bottom of them for the purpose of landing on top of armor and blowing up, and most likely will be employed in swarms, so future MBT's will likely have to evolve to have some kind of limited AA capability. A secondary 57mm gun with telescopic ammo, ANIET proximity fuzes, and guided shells will be an adequate answer for asymmetrical suicide mini-drones.

Remember the Armata MBT will be modular in nature and it'll probably have multiple load outs. The 125mm gun will be for enemy tanks while the 57mm gun would be for everything else, in a low intensity conflict fighting an asymmetrical insurgency the Armata BMPT will pick up most of the slack while Armata MBT will still play a role. Future conflicts may see cheap suicide mini-helicopter drones being employed by insurgents with shaped charges strapped to the bottom of them for the purpose of landing on top of armor and blowing up, and most likely will be employed in swarms, so future MBT's will likely have to evolve to have some kind of limited AA capability. A secondary 57mm gun with telescopic ammo, ANIET proximity fuzes, and guided shells will be an adequate answer for asymmetrical suicide mini-drones.

Zivo wrote:
Armata chassis will be expensive, cutting MBT's for purpose built BMPT's just doesn't seem smart. I believe the best solution would be to simply increase the lethality of the RWS on the group's lead MBT.

Armata chassis will be expensive, cutting MBT's for purpose built BMPT's just doesn't seem smart. 

GarryB wrote:16km range laser guided 57mm HE shells will be a very powerful anti aircraft and anti ground target weapon... with all your IFVs equipped and also your air defence vehicles carrying them too then there will be plenty of fire power in every unit.

I would expect the pattern of IFV weapons would continue with a mix of 57mm main gun for the IFV to penetrate enemy IFVs and likely Kornet-EM for use against enemy tanks would be standard.