Russian Economy General News: #7

We take Russia's progress for granted. Given the amount of sabotage, primarily funded by NATO, it is a miracle that Russia is managing
to get its house in order and manifest to the world real progress. Nobody is harassing and undermining the USA, Canada and the EU.
So their "performance" isn't something to trumpet.

Putting Russia into its past historical context, it is simply spectacular how Putin's government is maintaining freedom and democracy
and resorting to forced methods to achieve "progress". The demonization of Putin is grotesque, obscene, and evil. The same shitballs
that are trying to ruin Russia and carve it up into manageable colonial pieces are the self-appointed arbiters of Russia's human standards.
Sick.

Bannon Breaks Silence: Vows "Economic War With China"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-16/bannon-breaks-silence-slams-far-right-clowns-goldman-lobbyists-vows-economic-war-chi

“We’re at economic war with China,” he added. “It’s in all their literature. They’re not shy about saying what they’re doing. One of us is going to be a hegemon in 25 or 30 years and it’s gonna be them if we go down this path.”

“To me,” Bannon said, “the economic war with China is everything. And we have to be maniacally focused on that. If we continue to lose it, we're five years away, I think, ten years at the most, of hitting an inflection point from which we'll never be able to recover.”

Bannon’s plan of attack includes: a complaint under Section 301 of the 1974 Trade Act against Chinese coercion of technology transfers from American corporations doing business there, and follow-up complaints against steel and aluminum dumping.

“We’re going to run the tables on these guys. We’ve come to the conclusion that they’re in an economic war and they’re crushing us.”

Can Russia take benefit of the trade war between China and US ?

kvs wrote:We take Russia's progress for granted.   Given the amount of sabotage, primarily funded by NATO, it is a miracle that Russia is managing
to get its house in order and manifest to the world real progress.   Nobody is harassing and undermining the USA, Canada and the EU.
So their "performance" isn't something to trumpet.    

Putting Russia into its past historical context, it is simply spectacular how Putin's government is maintaining freedom and democracy
and resorting to forced methods to achieve "progress".    The demonization of Putin is grotesque, obscene, and evil.    The same shitballs
that are trying to ruin Russia and carve it up into manageable colonial pieces are the self-appointed arbiters of Russia's human standards.
Sick.

Im not demonizing Putin.. he is actually more closer to a Saint.. than anything. And probably will be canonized as Nicholas and his family. So is not Putin's heart the problem. he is a good man actually. Is Putin's foolish ideas and vision of Russia is the problem instead. He live in another Era ,in the soviet times. He don't understand what Leadership is , the ability to Influence others to follow you.. thats Leadership.  And some my argue that Putins ratings bla bla bla.. but what happens is Putin is trusted ,and the others politicians are not.  So putin gets re-elected only because he defend Russia interest and there is no other politician Russian citizens trust.   But Putin's vision of Russia is OBSOLETE , big time .  I have seen Putin in ST
petersburg economic forums ,beg Americans major business CEOs who wants to work in Russia ,to help him restore relations with Americans.  Then Putin himself goes and say How America is the "only super power" and they are ready how to cooperate with them.
So Putin is the only world leader im aware that downplays its own nation capabilities..  


So Putin shows Russia to be a weak nation . this is awful to watch.. painful to see how he humiliate Russia in front of the world. He have to ask permission Obama to bomb Alqaeda.   Putin behave more like a spiritual guide of Russians and thats it. But not like a Business leader. he is patriotic but at the same time he is a bad leader .

It was Einstein the genius scientist who told..

Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results

So Putin since he came to power, in 2000. he have been doing the same things over and over and over. All his strategy for Russia is to make a monopoly in Energy and modernize its military and try to keep a low profile ,as much as possible, and not annoy Americans ,
so that he is allowed to develop and modernize Russia peacefully. Using the soviet union and Romanov glorious past and olympics as the favorite tool to promote Patriotism.

But none of that works.. Because He have been IGNORING AMERICANS Business domination in the world. Not offering a competition to them.. Not even in Space ,that Russia already achieved a lot in the soviet times ,he is taking it seriously. he actually cut the budge of space
by 50% and be happy with a taxy to the ISS.

, if he believe he can continue doing the same things over and over again and expect different results.. that is Ignoring Americans domination over the world.. ignoring the way they win the hearts of the world community ,with its leadership ,with its top business with its culture and entertainment industry.. if Putin continue to ignore Americans domination .. how he does that?
by NOT offering any competition. then he later should not complain at all in the future ,if Americans don't respect Russia interest in the world ,or neither complain if Europe ignores
Russia and follows Americans and not Russia.

So Putins allows Americans Business to steal the show ,to win the hearts of Russian citizens..
and the citizens of the entire world , and later he have the face to complain why no one listen a gas station like Russia ,,that only export healthy food ,and takes Russia seriously. and a serious developed nation. As long Putin do nothing to offer Competition to Americans top business in technology and entertainment ,Business that steal the show and people talk for weeks about them , then Russia will continue being a Rejected Nation in the world . by the most developed nations that is.. So effectively Putin behave like a traitor ,because the way he develops Russia , is the best possible way to help Americans to continue dominating in the world with its very modern economy and innovative modern business that have no competition.  The day Russia offers a real alternative to American Internet ,To American computers ,to americans software industry , to American entertainment industry ,including sound equipment or television ,and start landing in mars and moon.. is the moment the world ,en special Europea nd NATO countries ,will realize that no longer they need to continue following Americans on anything ,that they don't need Americans at all ,since Russia have comparable things to offer that everyone love from US business..

So if you will like to see Russia disrespected more and more every month or day or week , humilliated many times , their civilian airliners shutdown by CIA-ISIS. then Putin is what will
give you that a very weak Russia ,with modern nukes and a similar primitive economy ,like the one you see in third world nations. But if you will like a mayor change and Russia no longer disrespected ,or humiliated and NATO being disbanded. Then Russia needs to become a much
more attractive nation on its business. and develop a very modern innovative economy. not relying selling healthy food ,or sport tourism.. but instead relying in Space exploration ,selling advanced computers for civilians , with software, selling entertainment.. etc.. and technology aimed for the media and social life.

Putin is certainly a capable leader, but one person's influence should never be exaggerated.

The problem is that there is this "myth" that Russia - and Eastern Europe in general - is somehow meant to be "poor". That for some reason the Russian and Polish potential level of development is lower than Italy's or Spain's.

But why!? Because that is what happened in the late 20th century, during the last 3 or 4 decades, when Southern European countries quickly converged to Western living standards, while East's central planning went to shit, and what's worse, in many places that system collapsed more or less uncontrollably. But historically that's a very short period of time.

So when it comes to Russia, the period between 1970-2000 (and of course, a full convergence is going to take additional decades) was just an exception, an anomaly.

The Soviet "experiment" wasn't a total disaster, but contrary to Soviet propaganda, Russian Empire was developing rapidly just before WW1. Of course it was. The Russians were (and they are) European, caucasian/white = high average IQs.

Without the Soviet Union, without a nuclear war, etc., Russia today would be a fully developed country, just like Spain and Italy. So yeah, Anatoly Karlin's "theory" (well, he actually didn't invent it) has convinced me. It makes perfect sense. https://www.unz.com/akarlin/education-as-elixir-of-growth/

What's a developed country? I hear this term a lot but never understood it.

Russia has modern healthcare, covered by taxes. Like developed nations excluding US.
Russia has modern education, covered by taxes. Most developed nations don't have this.
Modern housing (expensive)
has manufacturing that most nations don't have

So what if it has poor villages? So does Canada. But we are considered developed.

I think it is a poor method of patting your own back and trying to degrade other nations. China is classified as a developing nation.

I don't buy into this bullshit thank you.

I would say that Russia is just about a "developed" country, but it's neither "fully developed", nor "undeveloped".

Is that health care, for an average person, really comparable to that of Canada? Certainly not, although it's improving, but many indicators are not great. The average quality of housing is still... varied, same with the infrastructure, and industry.

I visited Russia (Leningrad region) in 2016, IIRC. And I can say that I saw things you would never see in Finland (or I'm sure, in Canada).

Like many apartments, the quality of roads in certain areas, some of the houses along the highways and railroads from Finland to Saint Petersburg were in terrible condition. It's likely that that some of them were empty, but you would never see that kind of stuff in Finland. Never, not even close.

Of course, I saw many positive things as well, mostly positive, in fact. New roads were being built (if anything, the roads are getting worse here in Finland), new shopping malls, many modern apartments and of course Saint Petersburg looked great all around. But Russia is still clearly a country in transition. PPP GDP per capita figures seemed really accurate, actually. (Also, there are some really poor regions like Chechenia.)  

The fact that average Russian living standards are not as high as in Western European countries is common sense. And that is fine, btw. Even kvs seems to admit that. Everyone does. Let's not go crazy here, please. But I do agree that those differences should not be exaggerated, not in 2017! That is why Russia can - and it should - developed and grow faster than the Western countries.

I'm talking about countries which have a PPP GDP per capita of atleast $35,00-40,000, maybe 60% of the US level (which means a similar lvl to that of the US, btw, the dollar is overvalued, etc.), so basically Spain or South Korea. Czech Republic is probably close to that as well. Russia is currently at 40-45%, which is pretty good, considerably above the global average.

I guarantee you it is better than Canadian healthcare. Our healthcare is total garbage. To the point were everyone is Bitching for private health care. Cubas healthcare is leaps and bounds better.

Yeah, sure bub. You never been to Canada. I've been to Russia. So I can compare. We have Fucking reserves were people break a hole from top floor to basement so they use it as a toilet or rip out copper wires for money. It was only recently they made the main highway 4 lanes. And half decent quality. That's the #1

Like a lot of discussion about Russia, the perceptions are afflicted with delayed reaction. Around 2000 Russian healthcare lacked
MRIs and other high tech equipment at sufficient levels. Now Russia makes its own world class MRIs and the situation is
much better. It is unfair to base evaluation of Russia's development on the 1990s Yeltsin toilet years. Any NATO country would
have been similarly "undeveloped" with the same 40-50% GDP contraction and massive payment arrears. Not only did Russia manage
to pull itself out of this toilet (a fact that is not properly appreciated by most), but it has moved ahead of the pre 1990 Soviet era.
You can see this in the increased life expectancy, rates of alcohol consumption lower than under Gorbachev's draconian (and self-defeating)
anti-alcohol campaign but with zero coercion (i.e. people are freely choosing not to booze themselves silly), infant mortality rates
comparable to Canada, etc.

Since Russia is a huge country, the hinterland is still in transition and relatively poor compared to the major population centers. But
the transition is happening and in the right direction. And talking about the hinterland, the USA and Canada has a lot of poverty
in the rural areas. Like Appalachia, for example.

miketheterrible wrote:What's a developed country? I hear this term a lot but never understood it.

Russia has modern healthcare, covered by taxes. Like developed nations excluding US.
Russia has modern education, covered by taxes. Most developed nations don't have this.
Modern housing (expensive)
has manufacturing that most nations don't have

So what if it has poor villages? So does Canada. But we are considered developed.

I think it is a poor method of patting your own back and trying to degrade other nations.  China is classified as a developing nation.

I don't buy into this bullshit thank you.

The problem that Russia face ,is not about infrastructure .Is not about who have the better
roads or better buildings.. you need those things ,to promote business.. but is not this Russia
problem , that don't promote business. they do it.. The problem of Russia is an influence  problem. Influence, what is influence mike?  What influence you ?  what influence canadian people about Russia? you want to know what influence people ,follow the money.

So let see if i can show you , what is influence ,an influential country and what is being a backward nation.

Saudi Arabia,UAE and QATAR they have the best infrastructure in the planet.second to none.
Airports with swimming pools ,bathrooms in gold and all that shit. They also have the best quality of living standards when it comes to material needs. For example in Qatar the average salary is $150k a year for civilians. and there is no unemployment. free healthcare and they provide free education to university. they even send their people to study in best Europe universities. and just like Putin the moron.. Qatar king love sports ,and invest a lot of money
in Olympic bullshit. they will wost FIFA 2020.. Does this means that Qatar is an influential nation to you ? or Canadian people? or Europe? NO..  is actually seen as a third world nation
with a lot of money. and why is that that with so much money ,Qatar is not an influential nation to the western developed societies? Lybia also have the highest quality of living in all africa and most of europe. but was Lybia influential nation? NO..

So is not shinny new buildings what will make Russia , solve its problems in the world.
which are? the American Government hate for Russia and their full time policy of try
to destroy Russia. Is not Russia olympic bullshit and gold medals what will make Europe to
disband NATO and turn to Russia. NO. Is neither Putin's selling more potatoes or wheat than americans or healthy food what will make Russia solve its problems.

is Russia I N F L U E N C E  and Russia L E A D E R S H I P , what will do it.

So in what ways Russia influence you mike? What things Russian business produce ,
that you will like to buy ???  

The monitor ,keyboard and computer you are using right now , look at it. that was made
by Americans and/or belongs to an international business that Americans control. This forum will not even exist Russiandefense.net without Americans business authorization of it..
So see the difference?  Russia business influence no one in the world unless you are a minority like us ,that likes to talk about tanks and combat planes and military power.and AMerican business influence everyone. Otherwise you will not have internet . what Russia sells that people likes is basically military protection ,the reason why nations comes closer to Russia. and a taxi to the ISS.  


and this is why Russia is without allies. and only rejected nations comes closer to them.
Because Russia Business leads in almost nothing in the world..  
So is a influence/leadership problem ,what Russia does not project any leadership in the world
with their CIVILIAN business.

Russia can win all the olympic medals in the world ,and still will be under without allies. Russia can sell all the wheat and potatoes in the world and still will be a backward nation ,in most people opinions. By focusing too much in Agriculture ,it only invites Americans to sabotage it ,by helping Ukraine to sell exactly the same agriculture products Russia sells..  

Russia popularity is not for being a modern (business) nation ,but for being a backwards one. and this needs to change. Only when Russia modernize its economy and offer an alternative to American Top innovative business in the world they will start to earn respect and allies from NATO ,to collapse it ,and break US hegemony in the world.

If i was on putin shoes.. i will be promoting an IT (information technology)
industrial revolution in Russia.To create a major business with Everything that is connected to a computer or build computers itself too.. Quantum computers ,photonic computers or anything of the like ,and not for military use only but for civilians too. All this things pulls thousands of other business. including entertainment industry,advertising ,it also promote a modern culture too. something Russia seriously is behind . still promoting foolish old way of living of the past.
instead of living in the Present and leading the world into the future.

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/russia-turns-cryptocurrencies-counter-us-sanctions/ri20693

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/mining-cryptos-russias-cheap-energy-cold-and-brains-are-big-advantages/ri20701?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Austin wrote:Can Russia take benefit of the trade war between China and US ?

Yes Russia can take advantage of the trade war between China and US and Russia will probably do it, China took advantage of Zionst sanctions on Russia. The thing about Trump is that everybody is spilt and can't get along and China knows this. Also the US plans for the next 5-10 years, while China plans for the next 20-30 years(the Chinese will play the long term game and once rich bastards in the US start losing money, they probably won't want any piece of this.)

FROM SOVIETS TO OLIGARCHS: INEQUALITY AND PROPERTY IN RUSSIA, 1905-2016 (nothing too surprising):

http://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/NPZ2017.pdf

Any comments?

Oligarchs exist in a capitalist system. They thrive in it.  People would say its worst now than before but that is a lie. Issue is, back in the 90's there were few oligarchs who owned everything while now (they were millionaire vs billionaire), there are more oligarchs than before. Unfortunately, in a society that runs on the concept of maximum profit over social benefits, these people rule. While average Russian now has significantly more wealth than before, with better living standards and more savings, oligarchs are now also wealthier and more powerful.  Expect it to grow too under a somewhat autarky rule that is developing in Russia. The wealthy will be the ones who invest and develop Russia's economy, thus they will get richer. This happened in most autarkies in the past. You need money to invest and develop.

The only thing the Russian authorities are working on to somewhat fix this, is they are looking at a kickstarter like system that will make it easy and cheap for everyone to invest in businesses looking for investment. This won't really fix the issue but it will give the average Russian a chance to really gain additional wealth and make it easier for small businesses and business men to thrive.

Vann7 wrote:


So Putin shows Russia to be a weak nation . this is awful to watch.. painful to see how he humiliate Russia in front of the world. He have to ask permission Obama to bomb Alqaeda.   Putin behave more like a spiritual guide of Russians and thats it. But not like a Business leader. he is patriotic but at the same time he is a bad leader .

It was Einstein the genius scientist who told..

Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results

But none of that works.. Because He have been IGNORING AMERICANS Business domination in the world. Not offering a competition to them.. Not even in Space ,that Russia already achieved a lot in the soviet times ,he is taking it seriously. he actually cut the budge of space
by 50% and be happy with a taxy to the ISS.

,

The US paying extremer price for this "dominance".

It practically destroying the middle class,and with it all of the US economical/competitiveness base.

Imagine, now the US can't develop a modern fighter jet without extensive financial help from abroad.

The efficiency improvement stagnating across all business segment for decades now, in the country that created the idea of it .



It can't go for too long, the power of the empire, or the success of the google/apple based on a the dismissing middle class.

miketheterrible wrote:Oligarchs exist in a capitalist system. They thrive in it.  People would say its worst now than before but that is a lie. Issue is, back in the 90's there were few oligarchs who owned everything while now (they were millionaire vs billionaire), there are more oligarchs than before. Unfortunately, in a society that runs on the concept of maximum profit over social benefits, these people rule. While average Russian now has significantly more wealth than before, with better living standards and more savings, oligarchs are now also wealthier and more powerful.  Expect it to grow too under a somewhat autarky rule that is developing in Russia. The wealthy will be the ones who invest and develop Russia's economy, thus they will get richer. This happened in most autarkies in the past. You need money to invest and develop.

The only thing the Russian authorities are working on to somewhat fix this, is they are looking at a kickstarter like system that will make it easy and cheap for everyone to invest in businesses looking for investment. This won't really fix the issue but it will give the average Russian a chance to really gain additional wealth and make it easier for small businesses and business men to thrive.

How you define the capitalist system?
What is the purpose of it?


By my view the capitalist system can exist only if it compete for the most important resource, the workforce.

How much of there is truth in this ?

Don't Forget About The Red Swan - By David Stockman

Austin wrote:How much of there is truth in this ?

Don't Forget About The Red Swan - By David Stockman

To a degree, capital has long dried up and world economies growth have been running on credit... both governments and domestic. Since 2008 the Western economies are spinning their tires or treading water... your choice of metaphors. Lately the Developing World has slowed down to match and we all wait for the next hiccup.

franco wrote:

Austin wrote:How much of there is truth in this ?

Don't Forget About The Red Swan - By David Stockman

To a degree, capital has long dried up and world economies growth have been running on credit... both governments and domestic. Since 2008 the Western economies are spinning their tires or treading water... your choice of metaphors. Lately the Developing World has slowed down to match and we all wait for the next hiccup.

It is not that complicated.


The consumption stagnating everywhere around the world, so the economy growth driven by investment .

But without actual consumption growth the investment can county only on the future expected consumption growth.


At the early stages of the investment boom it is easy to found industries, example food, transportation will be needed at same point of future.


However as the options run out what is the next?

Say you make a supercar factory ,that can makes one million unit per month, each of them worth one million $ , with 20% profit.

So ,your factory on paper can make 200 billion $/ month, and 2.4 trillion/year in profit, and have as much income like the _whole US economy.



The trouble is your factory has orders only for 10 car / month.

Means that if you expect that the factory will reach its full potential in 10 years time, you can justify to keep it on your book on the case 30 trillion $ value.


But if you adjust it to the market then 99.99% of its value will be wiped off,and the owner become a simple millionaire instead to be the emperor of the known universe.

In china ,and in many other country there are countless investment that worth less than the book value.

Question is how the economy adjust the value?

Who will loose?
The owner, who has to sell the factory, and release the workers ,and accept the loss, or the workers who has to work for him for one bowl of rice , because no more money left in the cash flow?


The politician / billionaire will lose, or the average citizen?

July car production up by 19% year over year.


First 7 month up by 15%

2016 jan-july : 719k car manufactured in Russia, 2017 jan-july : 829k manufactured.

Russia Pays Soviet Union's Last Unsettled Foreign Debt - Finance Ministry

Russia has paid its final Soviet-era debt of $125.2 million, which was owed to Bosnia and Herzegovina.

https://sputniknews.com/business/201708211056659084-russia-soviet-debt-finance-ministry/


Let that sink in for all Soviet nostalgics. Mighty USSR owed money to what turned out to be Bosnia.

Russia > USSR any day of the week.

tomazy wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:[b]
...................

If I am not mistaken it is not that simple. I think that USSR owed money to Yugoslavia, but when Yugoslavia fell apart, that dept was distributed to verious ex Yugo republics.

It is that simple. Something like USSR should not owe anything to something like Yugoslavia. Plain and simple.

PapaDragon wrote:

tomazy wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:[b]
...................

If I am not mistaken it is not that simple. I think that USSR owed money to Yugoslavia, but when Yugoslavia fell apart, that dept was distributed to verious ex Yugo republics.

It is that simple. Something like USSR should not owe anything to something like Yugoslavia. Plain and simple.

Yugoslavia exported quite a few products to USSR. Tooling machines, tools, some token amounts of electronics, brandy, even ships and very often it was exchange, goods for goods or conversion to "Klirinški dolar", which for i got no clue what is the term in english lol.

So at the end it ended up that USSR owed Yugoslavia.