Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #2

Big_Gazza wrote:

PapaDragon wrote: Sputnik clowns still don't know that Angara is medium class rocket...

To be fair, there are no launchers currently operational with payloads much over 25T... so from that POV, Angara is a heavy class....

(Delta IV Heavy tops the listings at 28.8T to LEO)

I know but in text it's clear that author is referring to Angara as heavy/super-heavy rocket and confusing it with Soyuz-5​/Fenix

Russian government allocates $39 mln for Vostochny spaceport operation

http://tass.com/science/960961

Papadragon wrote:Sputnik clowns still don't know that Angara is medium class rocket...

Sputnik news is one hell of confusion. I was the first one to single out sputniknews .. but alas .. some words are just spoken as real time ..
till today it goes on and on on and on .. non stop .. Russian think tanks .. we should compare if Russian language news articles also copy from this english articles..

I specifically believe that Angara and Energia programs are separate programs.
Coming up with 2 different architectures rd-191 and rd-170 series .. Russian military wanted 10 ton to upto 30 tonnes(LEO Payload) incremental order.
Thats why Angara program was started  ..  and also probably cheaper than Energia program .. Russia is not in a hurry that is also true.
Russia is busy in sanctions and import substitution to take of large scale programs like Soyuz SHLV.

gaurav wrote:

Papadragon wrote:Sputnik clowns still don't know that Angara is medium class rocket...

Sputnik news is one hell of confusion. I was the first one to single out sputniknews .. but alas .. some words are just spoken as real time ..
till today it goes on and on on and on .. non stop .. Russian think tanks .. we should compare if Russian language news articles also copy from this english articles..

I specifically believe that Angara and Energia programs are separate programs.
Coming up with 2 different architectures rd-191 and rd-170 series .. Russian military wanted 10 ton to upto 30 tonnes(LEO Payload) incremental order.
Thats why Angara program was started  ..  and also probably cheaper than Energia program .. Russia is not in a hurry that is also true.
Russia is busy in sanctions and import substitution to take of large scale programs like Soyuz SHLV.

But Russia's leadership is also diseased with monetarist voodoo. Trying to run zero deficit budgets is insane. One spends today
what one needs to spend and then can afford the payments later. Trying to have zero debt at all costs is just a BS cult superstition
and not real economics and finance policy. Of course, I am not advocating artificial GDP growth via debt formation as happens in
NATO. But the zero deficit extreme is also bad.

Kvs wrote:But Russia's leadership is also diseased with monetarist voodoo.

Mann.. yu are correct to the point.. It is Russian not soviet.. russian not soviet .. mannn he has gone crazy .. I am speechless right now ..
no words ..no sane words are coming in my mouth .. I just cant describe anything .. what the hell is he saying..

Actually personally I think Khrunichev and kremlin both decided to kill the rd-171 program ..

YU see the list
1. Rus-m program 2012 circa
2. majistral program 2010 circa(all RD-171) .. as we say clinton body count campaign in U.S just like here RD-171 murder campaign pardon the pun
3. Energia k ..2008 , Soyuz Progress programs
4. Angara 100

There areendless programs with RD-171 .. but really now we know they have realized there mistake sanctions sanctions .. what sanctions mann.. U.S funded 50 percent of russia space program then also they killed rd-170 ..now they realized their mistake..

gaurav wrote:

Kvs wrote:But Russia's leadership is also diseased with monetarist voodoo.

Mann.. yu are correct to the point.. It is Russian not soviet.. russian not soviet .. mannn he has gone crazy .. I am speechless right now ..
no words ..no sane words are coming in my mouth .. I just cant describe anything .. what the hell is he saying..

Actually personally I think Khrunichev and kremlin both decided to kill the rd-171 program ..

YU see the list
1.  Rus-m program 2012 circa
2. majistral program 2010 circa(all RD-171) .. as we say clinton body count campaign in U.S just like here RD-171 murder campaign pardon the pun
3. Energia k ..2008 , Soyuz Progress programs
4. Angara 100

There areendless programs with RD-171  .. but really now we know they have realized there mistake sanctions sanctions .. what sanctions mann.. U.S funded 50 percent of russia space program then also they killed rd-170 ..now they realized their mistake..

You are right, the model Russia adopted was selling the family heirlooms to pay for routine operations. This is
a self-terminating catabolic process and not rational economics. If Russia wants real "import substitution" it
needs to stop relying on foreign "charity". To think some clowns on this board think that Russian spending
is already high enough. It isn't.

kvs wrote:But Russia's leadership is also diseased with monetarist voodoo. Trying to run zero deficit budgets is insane. One spends today
what one needs to spend and then can afford the payments later. Trying to have zero debt at all costs is just a BS cult superstition
and not real economics and finance policy. Of course, I am not advocating artificial GDP growth via debt formation as happens in
NATO. But the zero deficit extreme is also bad.

I want to award this post as the best analytical comment (ever) given on Russiadefence forum.
In other forums there is a button to give the points in the post but here I did not find . I wanted to give 1 million points to the above post.

This post exactly confirms analytical background of barbarous scaling back of Soviet space program and making Russia just a import substitution country.
God help the world if the mentality of Russian leadership remains the same.

Yeah, lets be like the US and borrow to infinity with little to show for it besides some rockets, which are already being designed and built with current economic method! That will show the US and NATO who is boss!

.
Russia got what it deserved for thinking that someone else will be picking up their tab.

I am really glad that the whole "global friendship and peaceful cooperation" urban legend has been deflated.

Commercial launch fantasy is one of them. Thankfully reality is finally sinking in and USA companies are at last taking what is rightfully theirs. This has fortunate side effect of forcing Russia to finally start moving forward with their own projects instead of expecting to linger on forever off of Soviet equipment.

Krunichev's behavior is prime example of it. They got what was coming to them. Hopefully Energia will be more intelligent.

How about you build it first?  

Foreign space agencies take interest in Soyuz-5 rocket

http://tass.com/science/961384

https://www.rt.com/news/401495-russia-china-joint-space-2018/

Hey guys, has there been any updates on Russia's Pulse Detonation Rocket Engines (PDRE)??

gaurav wrote:

kvs wrote:But Russia's leadership is also diseased with monetarist voodoo. Trying to run zero deficit budgets is insane. One spends today
what one needs to spend and then can afford the payments later. Trying to have zero debt at all costs is just a BS cult superstition
and not real economics and finance policy. Of course, I am not advocating artificial GDP growth via debt formation as happens in
NATO. But the zero deficit extreme is also bad.

I want to award this post as the best analytical comment (ever) given on Russiadefence forum.
In other forums there is a button to give the points in the post but here I did not find . I wanted to give 1 million points to the above post.

This post exactly confirms analytical background of barbarous scaling back of Soviet space program and making Russia just a import substitution country.
God help the world if the mentality of Russian leadership remains the same.

import substitution can be bad you know.
https://geektimes.ru/post/271430/
because of increased weight of domestic components many satelites cant be launched because they are heavier and older worse versions must continue to be launched   , and with angara fiasco (heavier launcher then proton) that is still not available- postponements go on for decade !!!!.... that all degrades russian space capabilities ,increases costs ,cascades postponements into other programs ,and creates chaos....

'
More than $5.9 billion to be invested in spaceports development by 2025 — Russian PM


http://tass.com/science/965379



Roscosmos to create infrastructure for inter-planetary spacecraft at Vostochny


http://tass.com/science/964501

PapaDragon wrote:More than $5.9 billion to be invested in spaceports development by 2025 — Russian PM

These days one forum topic gets merged with other forum topics , rightly so(due to global economics).

Russia needs to generate extra sources of revenues in order to make its space industry
independent.
Cutting off defence expenditures and diverting them in space industry is not the solution.


Russian deep state and U.S deep state are in continuous struggle for dominance.
https://www.rt.com/business/404105-nord-stream2-europe-us-medvedev/


Russia does not have huge middle class to generate wealth.It can only generate wealth slowly as
the young generation grows and joins the labour force.
The only way for Russia to immediately generate extra sources of Revennues in through Nord straeam , turk stream
, LNG exports , China pipelines.

Besides Russia India business is also drying up as Russia thinks that Indian regime is
'not friendly'
Previously Russia invested a lot in India(not that way) but as a hedge against sanctions ,
but now Russian deep state has raised its head and brutally
cut off all Indian projects.From submarines, aircraft , OIl gas , infrastrutcure, electricity
everytihng. This situation demands extra ordinary circumstances to generate new revenue streams for Russian Deep state.


I mean Russ gov knows that space industry is the"Achilles heel" .. as long as Russia space industry remains embedded with U.S
it is the biggest national security threat to Russia apart fropm U.S nukes etc.Russian deep state understands this. Thats why so much desperate activity yu are seeing on ths front. Especially on diversion /catering of resources to space sector to stop the revenue generation from U.S

gaurav wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:More than $5.9 billion to be invested in spaceports development by 2025 — Russian PM

These days one forum topic gets merged with other forum topics , rightly so(due to global economics).

Russia needs to generate extra sources of revenues in order to make its space industry
independent.
Cutting off defence expenditures and diverting them in space industry is not the solution.


Russian deep state and U.S deep state are in continuous struggle for dominance.
https://www.rt.com/business/404105-nord-stream2-europe-us-medvedev/


Russia does not have huge middle class to generate wealth.It can only generate wealth slowly as
the young generation grows and joins the labour force.
The only way for Russia to immediately generate extra sources of Revennues in through Nord straeam , turk stream
, LNG exports , China pipelines.

Besides Russia India business is also drying up as Russia thinks that Indian regime is
'not friendly'
Previously Russia invested a lot in India(not that way) but as a hedge against sanctions ,
but now Russian deep state has raised its head and brutally
cut off all Indian projects.From submarines, aircraft , OIl gas , infrastrutcure, electricity
everytihng. This situation demands extra ordinary circumstances to generate new revenue streams for Russian Deep state.


I mean Russ gov knows that space industry is the"Achilles heel" .. as long as Russia space industry remains embedded with U.S
it is the biggest national security threat to Russia apart fropm U.S nukes etc.Russian deep state understands this. Thats why so much desperate activity yu are seeing on ths front. Especially on diversion /catering of resources to space sector to stop the revenue generation from U.S

I have absolutely no idea what you just tried to say and this was one of your more coherently typed posts...

AlfaT8 wrote:Hey guys, has there been any updates on Russia's Pulse Detonation Rocket Engines (PDRE)??

I have seen nothing. It is a top secret development project in my opinion since it will revolutionize aerospace propulsion.
But for sure it will not be here soon. The necessary high temperature materials science is advancing (and some of this
advance will be used for "regular" jet engines) but the current state is far from what is needed. So the pulse detonation
engines have the same constraints as the scramjets.

PapaDragon wrote:I have absolutely no idea what you just tried to say

Actually we live in very testing times , you will agree.
 See if there is deception, clutter in "Russian leadership and its media" then we should reflect and
inform it on forums.The forum actually is a mirror of Russian leadership and its media.

We tell it  what actually the situation is  ..
There is contradictory, conflicting policies being followed by Russian leadership ..
Just see the state of affairs in USA ..American people are at war against CNN, fox, msn , twitter, .. you name it ..
Russian media is also a part of teh same media .. We should not separate the two .. as they come from same cash flow..


Only beautiful girls on both media and huge amount of dollars ..
ha ha ha ha ..
yu can imagine the level of anarchy and chaos that is reflected in media.

hence .. I also try to reflect , try to inform the forum about the "under currents " .. and hence my view points are very incoherent/diverse in nature.

'
"Nauka" ISS module to be launched in 2018

http://tass.ru/kosmos/4589117

kvs wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:Hey guys, has there been any updates on Russia's Pulse Detonation Rocket Engines (PDRE)??

I have seen nothing.   It is a top secret development project in my opinion since it will revolutionize aerospace propulsion.
But for sure it will not be here soon.    The necessary high temperature materials science is advancing (and some of this
advance will be used for "regular" jet engines) but the current state is far from what is needed.    So the pulse detonation
engines have the same constraints as the scramjets.  

Well thx at least someone replied.

Also i am surprised that there are still high temperature constraints, i thought we resolved most of those.
Except for matter/anti-matter and controlled Nuclear rocket engines.

BTW i still haven't got a proper grasp on how revolutionary it's development is.

I would have been happy to reply, but I can't tell you anything new....

The potential for a pulse detonation rocket engine is enormous.

It is so simple.

When first ignited a rocket engine often puts out 20-30% more power than when running normally... a pulse detonation engine uses that spike in thrust and repeats it continuously to get more thrust from a given engine arrangement...

GarryB wrote:I would have been happy to reply, but I can't tell you anything new....

The potential for a pulse detonation rocket engine is enormous.

It is so simple.

When first ignited a rocket engine often puts out 20-30% more power than when running normally... a pulse detonation engine uses that spike in thrust and repeats it continuously to get more thrust from a given engine arrangement...

I see, so a good 30% improvement in thrust, perhaps with further development it could be increase to 50%, that does seem revolutionary.

AlfaT8 wrote:

GarryB wrote:I would have been happy to reply, but I can't tell you anything new....

The potential for a pulse detonation rocket engine is enormous.

It is so simple.

When first ignited a rocket engine often puts out 20-30% more power than when running normally... a pulse detonation engine uses that spike in thrust and repeats it continuously to get more thrust from a given engine arrangement...

I see, so a good 30% improvement in thrust, perhaps with further development it could be increase to 50%, that does seem revolutionary.

The key is overcoming the Brayton cycle. Most high performance jet engines today are in the diminishing returns tail for performance due
to serious limitations of the Brayton cycle.

kvs wrote:

AlfaT8 wrote:

GarryB wrote:I would have been happy to reply, but I can't tell you anything new....

The potential for a pulse detonation rocket engine is enormous.

It is so simple.

When first ignited a rocket engine often puts out 20-30% more power than when running normally... a pulse detonation engine uses that spike in thrust and repeats it continuously to get more thrust from a given engine arrangement...

I see, so a good 30% improvement in thrust, perhaps with further development it could be increase to 50%, that does seem revolutionary.

The key is overcoming the Brayton cycle.   Most high performance jet engines today are in the diminishing returns tail for performance due
to serious limitations of the Brayton cycle.    

I see, so this is what they mean by "closed cycle" back in the N1 days.