Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

PapaDragon wrote:

franco wrote:
Top figure is total, check individual fleets to see those submarines operational.
http://russianships.info/eng/today/

verkhoturye51 wrote:Minus first two Pacific fleet submarines - Podolsk and Sv. Georgiy Pobedonosets, as they were decomissioned last month.

Okay so according to this website I am coming up with following numbers of nuclear submarines in use, correct me if I'm wrong:


SSBN: 10 total (3 Borei-class + 7 Delta-class) 2 Deltas are in overhaul,  I am not counting last Typhoon-class since it's just there for testing

SSGN: 9 total (8 Oscar-class + 1 Yasen-class) 2 Oscars are in overhaul but are not slated for decommission unlike Akulas

SSN: 13 total (4 Sierra-class + 2 Victor-class + 7 Akula-class) I have no idea what exactly here is slated for repair and what for decommission so I'll just count ones in use now



So in use at the moment:

SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

SSN: 13


Is this right?

I think that the 2 SSBN's that the tender for their demolition was announced last month are still active. The tender process was started while awaiting the arrivals of their replacements.

SSBN: there are 8 Deltas in comission, 7 Delta IV and 1 Delta III, all finished overhaul. Dmitry is part of the fleet and is able to fire Bulavas

SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul) OK

SSN: 4 Sierra (3 active, 1 in modernization)+ 3 Victor (active) + 11 Akula (6 active, 5 in modernization) = 18.


Right now total numbers are 14 + 9 + 18 + Kilos and Ladas = 63 + reserve fleet > US submarine fleet

verkhoturye51 wrote:

Cost saving is the idea behind Husky, but I still hope they'll make a SSBN version quieter and more resistant against torpedo hits, a SSN faster and deeper diving and so on.

indeed making "up-armored" SSBN/SSN version could make fairly resistant against smaller torpedoes ... something like T-34 against 37mm guns.

verkhoturye51 wrote:Nice!

Weird thing in the bow doesn't really resemble VLS. Current trends in Russian submarine building favour big sonars in the bow and torpedos/missiles in the middle of the boat anyway.

So all in all it's just 8 VLSs in the middle of a hull or half of Yasen's capacity, which is consistent with official releases, signaling size much under Yasen's.

And that pump jet propulsor looks stealthy, too. Can't wait too see her get wet in 2-3 years!

agree bad ass looks - especially "bondisch" sail's windows. Whether it's smaller than Yasen? unlikely - loom as size of sail's doors or VLS for Calibrs - Calibr is ~8 m long.
Torpedo tubes are visible (in higher res) in front upper part of


Is should have also some hidden modules to store robots or perspective weaponry.

5- hull Typhoon was able to survive a torpedo hit.

verkhoturye51 wrote:SSBN: there are 8 Deltas in comission, 7 Delta IV and 1 Delta III, all finished overhaul. Dmitry is part of the fleet and is able to fire Bulavas

SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul) OK

SSN: 4 Sierra (3 active, 1 in modernization)+ 3 Victor (active) + 11 Akula (6 active, 5 in modernization) = 18.


Right now total numbers are 14 + 9 + 18 + Kilos and Ladas = 63 + reserve fleet > US submarine fleet

Some corrections and additions for subs in service:

SSBN:
1 Typhoon class - Dimitry Donskoi
3 Borei class - Dolgoruky, Nevsky and Monomakh
6 Delta IV class - Verkhoturye, Ekaterinburgh, Tula, Bryansk (in modernization), Karelia and Novomoskovsk
3 Delta II class - Podolsk, Georgy Pobedanosetz, Ryazan (2 of them will be retired soon)

SSGN
1 Yasen class- Severodvinsk
8 Oscar class - Voronezh, Smolensk, Tver, Orel, Tomsk, Irkutsk, Chelyabinsk and Omsk (the last 3 are in modernization)

SSN
2 Sierra I class - Kostroma and Karp (in modernization)
2 Sierra II class - Zubatka and Okun
11 Akula class - Kashalot, Bratsk, Magadan, Kuzbass, Samara, Panthera, Volk, Leopard, Tigr, Vepr and Gepard (7nof them are in modernization)
3 Victor III class - Obninsk, Danil Moskovsky and Tambov

SSK
20 Kilos class (approximate)

Special Submarines
1 Podmoskovye (ex- Delta IV class)
1 Orenburg (ex- Delta III class)
1 Sarov
? Losharik
? etc.

franco wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:............

So in use at the moment:

SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

SSN: 13


Is this right?

I think that the 2 SSBN's that the tender for their demolition was announced last month are still active. The tender process was started while awaiting the arrivals of their replacements.

I know, I already deducted those two

I think we can forgett about the last Akula submarine. It just used for missile tests and for show off. Yes it can fire the Bulava missile but i think only one or two of its missile tubes was modified for that use. And all SS-N-20 missiles have been scrapped by now.
Also the submarine had its overhaul in 2002 so it will soon need major repairs and overhaul again. Doubtfull Russia will pay for that once again when they can spend that money on new Borei subs insted.
Just like Kirovs cruisers this Soviet killer is just a wounderfull sight, but in reality it belongs in the past and not in the modern Russian navy. Scrap it and spend the money on something better.

PapaDragon wrote:.....
So in use at the moment:

SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

SSN: 13
.....

And just in time, infographics on Russian submarine fleet:

Huge picture, 7776x4848:

PapaDragon wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:.....
So in use at the moment:

SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

SSN: 13
.....

And just in time, infographics on Russian submarine fleet:

Huge picture, 7776x4848:

Yasen will start coming in really big numbers. They have modernized soviet era nuclear attack subs. Future diesel subs will have AIP so much more usefull than diesel subs they have now. And Oscar will get their new uksk vls.

The russian navy will be much more powerfull than the soviet probably in 6 years because all their ships will be able to lunch kalibr oniks and tzirkon.

Isos wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:.....
So in use at the moment:

SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

SSN: 13
.....

And just in time, infographics on Russian submarine fleet:

Huge picture, 7776x4848:

Yasen will start coming in really big numbers. They have modernized soviet era nuclear attack subs. Future diesel subs will have AIP so much more usefull than diesel subs they have now. And Oscar will get their new uksk vls.

The russian navy will be much more powerfull than the soviet probably in 6 years because all their ships will be able to lunch kalibr oniks and tzirkon.

Will Yasen-class start to come in "really big numbers"? Care to explain how this will happen?
Yes Russia do overhaul and upgrade some of its older nuclear subs. But its going really slow, and most probably wont return to service before 2020-2025.

walle83 wrote:

Isos wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:.....
So in use at the moment:

SSBN: 8 (+2 in overhaul)

SSGN: 7 (+2 in overhaul)

SSN: 13
.....

And just in time, infographics on Russian submarine fleet:

Huge picture, 7776x4848:

Yasen will start coming in really big numbers. They have modernized soviet era nuclear attack subs. Future diesel subs will have AIP so much more usefull than diesel subs they have now. And Oscar will get their new uksk vls.

The russian navy will be much more powerfull than the soviet probably in 6 years because all their ships will be able to lunch kalibr oniks and tzirkon.

Will Yasen-class start to come in "really big numbers"? Care to explain how this will happen?
Yes Russia do overhaul and upgrade some of its older nuclear subs. But its going really slow, and most probably wont return to service before 2020-2025.

They are building 6 of them if I'm not wrong. So they will be put into service one after the other really quickly. Now they don't have them but they will get those being build and that will change drasticly the level of technology of sub forces. While the old one are being upgraded also right now so they will come back with the yasen. So the number of subs will increase if they keep the old ones and get new ones.

6 is a big number for sub forces. Specially if it is about Yasen class. But what's important here is that they will put into service all of them in the same period which should be 2020-2025.

2025 will be the year where old rusty russian navy will no exist anymore. They will have plenty of new ships and far less old ships. Like new kilo, new yasen, new borei, and husky will be start in the shipyards.

I think we can forgett about the last Akula submarine. It just used for missile tests and for show off. Yes it can fire the Bulava missile but i think only one or two of its missile tubes was modified for that use. And all SS-N-20 missiles have been scrapped by now.

The last Akula sub used for testing should not be forgotten... it would be ideal for testing a range of weapon and system types that would not require taking an operational sub off the line to do the same work.

Podmoskovye spy sub, fresh photos with dorsal payload cradle:







More photos: https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/107655/

Construction schedule of Borei-A, Yasen and Husky



https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/193283.html

George1 wrote:Construction schedule of Borei-A, Yasen and Husky

https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/navy_korabel/63221775/62442/62442_900.jpg

https://navy-korabel.livejournal.com/193283.html

So 7-8 year build speed on average. Slower than USA but faster than France and UK.

Boreis are definitely winners here, decent pace, lots of hulls and fortunately SSBN fleet is well stocked so no need to rush things.

But that 5 year gap (at best) between last Yasen and first Husky is really concerning. Is Russian SSN fleet numerous and capable enough to absorb delivery gap that big? Seriously asking.

Gepard almost ready

At first I was like whats with that mast (?!), then I was all 'oh its just a rudder'
but then I was

hoom wrote:At first I was like whats with that mast (?!), then I was all 'oh its just a rudder'
but then I was
.....

Ahhh the good old Typhoon screwing around with people's sense of scale as usual....

Also, I just noticed how massive Akulas are, usually they look like chunkier Kilo subs when on the surface. But here you can see how ginormus they are.

This always happens to me when I look at subs, I always forget that 2/3 of them are underwater.

You can imagine how I freaked out when I saw Oscar class in dry dock. Unlike Typhoons that look huge even when not submerged, Oscars look average sized at best on the surface but the whole thing is insane when seen in full.

Those late Soviet subs really are THICC.

Even Kilos are Kardashian ass scale wide.
Kilo 9.9m beam is nearly as wide as LA/Virginia 10m, German Type 212 is only 6.8m.

Akula 13.5m is fatter than Ohio 13m.

I never forget a series of pierside comparisons I once saw:
VictorIII (about same size as LA) looking tiny next to Akula
Akula looking tiny next to Oscar
Oscar looking tiny next to Typhoon

PapaDragon wrote:
Gepard almost ready

When was this pic taken?

Showed up on Balancer forum with this caption

The submarine "Gepard" in PD-50
Severomorsk, June 2018. Photo: Svyatoslav Morozov.

Okay thanks. Just didn't realize it was in repair. Open sources I checked had it listed as in service. The Ru SSN forces really seems to be suffering with low numbers of operational units though.

slasher wrote:Okay thanks. Just didn't realize it was in repair. Open sources I checked had it listed as in service. The Ru SSN forces really seems to be suffering with low numbers of operational units though.

It was in dry dock for a short period of time.
Probably to fix some tiny problems and refresh the hull and make it quieter.
It had similar "repair" at the same time last year in Nerpa.

Northern Fleet has 9 active nuclear subs + Kazan in trials, which is definitely not low number of operational subs.
Not to mention, Diesel electric subs, special purpose subs and SSBNs in Northern Fleet.

Ned86 wrote:

slasher wrote:Okay thanks. Just didn't realize it was in repair. Open sources I checked had it listed as in service. The Ru SSN forces really seems to be suffering with low numbers of operational units though.

It was in dry dock for a short period of time.
Probably to fix some tiny problems and refresh the hull and make it quieter.
It had similar "repair" at the same time last year in Nerpa.

Northern Fleet has 9 active nuclear subs + Kazan in trials, which is definitely not low number of operational subs.
Not to mention, Diesel electric subs, special purpose subs and SSBNs in Northern Fleet.

Thanks for the clarification @Ned86. However, according to Wikipedia.ru, these eight SSNs below are listed as currently operational. Is this correct and if so which would be the ninth?

Project 971 - Active: 3 (K-317 Pantera, K-154 Tigr, K-335 Gepard)
Project 945 - Active: 1 (B-276 - Kostroma)
Project 945A - Active: 2 (B-534 Nizhny Novgorod, B-336 Pskov)
Project 671RTMK - Active: 2 (B-138 Obninsk, B-414 Daniel Moskovsky)

With regards to my initial observation, it was in reference to the fact that of the 10/11 Project 971 SSNs in hand, I was wondering, having seen the pic of the Gepard in dry dock, if that would have made it just three of these currently operational for the entire Navy. Also, units of the other older models are being/have been retired. 

The Navy has indeed been addressing the issue of improving the quantity and quality of their SSN fleet though, with upgrades and new builds after having reached a critical state. Things are however expected to turn around in a couple years according to plans.

slasher wrote:

Ned86 wrote:

slasher wrote:Okay thanks. Just didn't realize it was in repair. Open sources I checked had it listed as in service. The Ru SSN forces really seems to be suffering with low numbers of operational units though.

It was in dry dock for a short period of time.
Probably to fix some tiny problems and refresh the hull and make it quieter.
It had similar "repair" at the same time last year in Nerpa.

Northern Fleet has 9 active nuclear subs + Kazan in trials, which is definitely not low number of operational subs.
Not to mention, Diesel electric subs, special purpose subs and SSBNs in Northern Fleet.

Thanks for the clarification @Ned86. However, according to Wikipedia.ru, these eight SSNs below are listed as currently operational. Is this correct and if so which would be the ninth?

Project 971 - Active: 3 (K-317 Pantera, K-154 Tigr, K-335 Gepard)
Project 945 - Active: 1 (B-276 - Kostroma)
Project 945A - Active: 2 (B-534 Nizhny Novgorod, B-336 Pskov)
Project 671RTMK - Active: 2 (B-138 Obninsk, B-414 Daniel Moskovsky)

With regards to my initial observation, it was in reference to the fact that of the 10/11 Project 971 SSNs in hand, I was wondering, having seen the pic of the Gepard in dry dock, if that would have made it just three of these currently operational for the entire Navy. Also, units of the other older models are being/have been retired. 

The Navy has indeed been addressing the issue of improving the quantity and quality of their SSN fleet though, with upgrades and new builds after having reached a critical state. Things are however expected to turn around in a couple years according to plans.

A better source http://russianships.info/eng/today/