Russian Nuclear Submarine Force: Discussion

Korolev's R-7 used liquid oxygen and kerosene. Not hypergolic fuel.

In the case of the R-7 you had to pump the propellant into the tanks before launch. This took several hours. But it was not seen as a big issue initially as the alternative to deliver nukes back then was to use subsonic bombers. Which would also take hours just to reach the target. Later they made high speed pumps for the R-7 which could fuel the rocket in just under an hour I think.

Russia's first hypergolic ICBM was Yangel's R-16 rocket. Same rocket as in the Nedelin disaster.

Korolev was against using hypergolic rockets in the first place. He wanted to use solid rockets for military use. This led to the development of the RT-1 and RT-2 rockets.

You are correct, my mistake... it was missiles just after the R-7 that had storable liquid propellants.

Solid rocket fuels had issues too, they are very expensive and not really as powerful as the liquid fuel models and of course once they are started you cannot shut them down and they are not able to be throttled or shut down and started up again.

Solid or liquid fuels are immensely dangerous.

Nuclear submarines in the Russian Navy. from the oldest to the youngest.

1980s

1. BS-136 "Orenburg" (Project 09786);  was active from November 30, 1981; probably decommissioned

2. TK-208 "Dmitry Donskoy" (Project 941UM); was active from December 29, 1981 ; On February 6, 2023, it was withdrawn from the fleet,

3. K-44 "Ryazan" (project 667 BDR), was active from September 17, 1982; decommissioned in 2023

4. K-51 "Verkhoturye" (667 BDRM), active from 28.12.1984;

5. BS-64 "Podmoskovye" (Project 09787), active from 23.12.1986;

6. K-114 "Tula" (Project 667BDRM); active from 30.10.1987;

7. K-117 "Bryansk" (project 667 BDRM); in service from 30.09.1988; Undergoing mid-term repairs at the Zvezdochka Shipyard, INACTIVE


8. K-132 "Irkutsk" (Project 949AM), in service from 30.12.1988; INACTIVE, Undergoing repairs and modernization under Project 949AM at the Zvezda Shipyard

9. K-18 "Karelia" (Project 667BDRM); active from 10.10.1989;

1990s

10. K-407 "Novomoskovsk" (Project 667 BDRM), active from 27.11.1990;

11. K-410 "Smolensk" (Project 949A), active from 22.12.1990; 31 years,

12. K-331 "ex-Magadan" (Project 971), in service from 23.12.1990; Undergoing repairs and modernization at the Zvezda plant, INACTIVE

13. B-534 "Nizhny Novgorod" (Project 945A), in service from 26.12.1990; INACTIVE

14. K-317 "Pantera" (Project 971), active from 27.12.1990;

15. K-442 "Chelyabinsk" (Project 949AM); in service from 28.12.1990; Undergoing repairs and modernization at the Zvezda plant, INACTIVE


16. B-138 "Obninsk" (Project 671 RTMK), in service from 30.12.1990; INACTIVE

17. K-461 "Volk" (971M), in service  from 29.12.1991; Since 2014, the Zvezdochka Shipyard has undergone medium repairs and modernization[


18. K-456 "Tver" (949A), active from 18.08.1992;

19. B-448 "Tambov" (Project 671 RTMK), in service from 24.09.1992; overhaul completed, sea trials; INACTIVE
, INACTIVE

20. K-328 "Leopard" (971M); in service from 30.12.1992; Since the end of June 2011, mid-term repairs and modernization have been underway at the Zvezdochka shipyard.INACTIVE

21. K-266 "Orel" (949A), active from 30.12.1992;

22. K-419 "Kuzbass" (971U), active from 31.12.1992;

23. K-186 "Omsk" (949A), active from 15.12.1993;

24. B-336 "Pskov" (945A), active from 17.12.1993; INACTIVE

25. K-154 "Tigr" (971; under repair and modernization), Since 2019, it has been located in "Zvezdocka", INACTIVE


26. K-295 "Samara" (971M), in service from 17.07.1995; In September 2014, it was delivered to the Zvezdochka Shipyard for mid-term repairs and modernization, INACTIVE

27. K-157 "Vepr" (971U); active from  25.11.1995;

28. K-150 "Tomsk" (949A); active from 30.12.1996..

2000s

29. K-335 "Gepard" (971U), active from 05.12.2001;

2010S

30. K-535 "Yuri Dolgorukiy" (955), active from 29.12.2012;

31. K-550 "Alexander Nevsky" (955), active from 23.12.2013;

32. K-560 "Severodvinsk" (885), active from 30.12.2013;

33. K-551 "Vladimir Monomakh" (955), active from 19.12.2014;

2020s

34. K-552 "Knyaz Vladimir" (955A), active from 12.06.2020;

35, K-561 "Kazan" (885M), active 05.05.2021;

36. K-552 "Knyaz Oleg" (955A), active from 21.12.2021;

37. K-573 "Novosibirsk" (885M); active from 21.12.2021;

38. K-329 "Belgorod" (09852), active from 08.07.2022;  

39. K-553 "Generalissimus Suvorov" (955A), active from 29.12.2022....

40. K-571 "Krasnoyarsk" (885M), will enter active service soon..probably...

Podlodka77 wrote:
.

40. K-571 "Krasnoyarsk" (885M), will enter active service soon..probably...

USC SevMash in December

Izd.955A
K-554 Imperator Alexander III, certification of acceptance and delivery
Knyaz Pozharsky, withdrawal from the workshop and launch

Izd.885M
K-571 Krasnoyarsk, acceptance certification and delivery
K-564 Arkhangelsk, removal from the workshop and launch

I did not include K-554, K-XXX Knyaz Pozharskiy and K-564 , in the text because my text above your post has been there since November of last year, but with a change in the activity or inactivity status of certain submarines.

6 Project 955/955A (Borei/Borei-A class; 3 X 955, 3 X 955A) delivered, 1 X 955A launched, 3 x 955A under construction[19]
  3 Project 885 Yasen (two of them are of the project 885M Yasen-M class) delivered, 1 x 885M launched, 5 x 885M under construction
  1 Project 09852,
  1 or 2 of the project 09851 UC.
What we wrote about and what remains disputed is "Ulyanovsk"...

2010's

1. K-535 "Yuri Dolgorukiy" (955), active from 29.12.2012;

2. K-550 "Alexander Nevsky" (955), active from 23.12.2013;

3. K-560 "Severodvinsk" (885), active from 30.12.2013;

4. K-551 "Vladimir Monomakh" (955), active from 19.12.2014;

2020's

5. K-552 "Knyaz Vladimir" (955A), active from 12.06.2020;

6, K-561 "Kazan" (885M), active 05.05.2021;

7. K-552 "Knyaz Oleg" (955A), active from 21.12.2021;

8. K-573 "Novosibirsk" (885M); active from 21.12.2021;

9. K-329 "Belgorod" (09852), active from 08.07.2022;  

10. K-553 "Generalissimus Suvorov" (955A), active from 29.12.2022....

11. K-571 "Krasnoyarsk" (885M), will enter active service soon..probably...

12. K-554 "Imperator Alexander III" (955A); will enter active service soon..probably...,

13. K-564 "Arkhangelsk" (885M); under construction since March 19, 2015; it should be launched soon

14. K-XXX "Knyaz Pozharskiy" (955A); under construction since December 23, 2016; it should be launched soon...

15. Project 09851 "Khabarovsk"; under construction since July 19, 2014; there is no info but maybe she is also in line for launch..


In the following years, we cannot expect the launch of 955A submarines, because "Knyaz Potemkin" and "Dmitry Donskoy" are under construction only from August 2021. This means that the following on the list of induction into active service must be; "Perm" and "Ulyanovsk".
Even "Vladivostok" and "Voronezh" are 14 months longer in construction than the 9th and 10th Borei.

The Chinese have nothing to teach the Russians regarding the construction of the nuclear submarines in question here.
As for the rest, it could be discussed.

SEVMASH

39 first generation nuclear-powered submarines

   14 Project 627 & 627A (November class)
   8 Project 658 (Hotel class)
   1 Project 645
   16 Project 675 (Echo II class)

63 second generation nuclear-powered submarines

   24 Project 667A & 667AU (Yankee class)
   1 Project 661 (Papa class)
   10 Project 667B (Delta I class)
   4 Project 667BD (Delta II class)
   14 Project 667BDR (Delta III class)
   3 Project 705K (Alfa class)
   7 Project 667BDRM (Delta IV class)

39 third generation nuclear-powered submarines

   13 Project 949 & 949A (Oscar I & Oscar II classes)
   6 Project 941 (Typhoon class)
   1 Project 685 (Mike class)
   15 Project 971 (Akula I and Akula II classes)
   4 Project 945 and 945A  or 2 + 2 (Sierra I and Sierra II classes)

10 delivered fourth generation nuclear-powered submarines, 2 launched, 9 to 10 more under construction.

   6 Project 955/955A (Borei/Borei-A class; 3 X 955, 3 X 955A) delivered, 1 X 955A launched, 3 x 955A under construction[19]
   3 Project 885 Yasen (two of them are of the project 885M Yasen-M class) delivered, 1 x 885M launched, 5 x 885M under construction
   1 Project 09852,
   1 or 2 of the project 09851 UC.

By the end of this year or next spring, there will be 12 active 4th generation submarines (if K-571 becomes operational by the end of the year) and two or maybe 3 ("Khabarovsk" submarine) additional ones will soon be launched. And of course, construction is expected to continue and contracts for additional submarines..



AMUR







KRASNOYE SORMOVO

The 4 remaining Delta IVs must be replaced soon, hence rapid constructon of Boreys.
They may even convert some Deltas into SSGNs, just like the 1st 4 Ohios were in the USN. With their 154 CMs per sub, it's=3 SSNs each, or 12 total.
True force multipliers!

Podlodka77 wrote:Project 636.6 submarines are probably no longer the right solution for anti-submarine warfare, but neither AIP submarines have autonomy, working depth or sailing speed, nor an arsenal of nuclear submarines.

But of course, those are.
Even the vanilla 877 remains one of the most capable conventional submarines that are out there.
Those subs carry more weapons than French "SSN" toys.
Rise your right hand, and start to count equivalent subs using your fingers.
One hand would be good enough.
And keep remembering that for the last decade, they have steadily put two operational in a year.

Tsavo Lion wrote:The 4 remaining Delta IVs must be replaced soon, hence rapid constructon of Boreys.
They may even convert some Deltas into SSGNs, just like the 1st 4 Ohios were in the USN. With their 154 CMs per sub, it's=3 SSNs each, or 12 total.
True force multipliers!

Nope...
7 were built and one was converted to a Project 09787 special purpose platform, i.e. BS-64 "Podmoskovye".
Only the K-84 "Ekaterinburg" has been decommissioned, but not officially and the Ministry of Defense of Russia never made a statement about it, so I think some new 885M submarine might get that name - Ekaterinburg.
4 submarines are active; K-51 "Verkhoturye", K-114 "Tula", K-18 "Karelia" and K-407 "Novomoskovsk".
Another one K-117 "Bryansk" is undergoing overhaul and modernization.
In total 6 are in service; one as a special mission submarine, and five as SSBN, one of which is undergoing overhaul.
There is no doubt that the "dolphins" will be withdrawn from service in the coming years, but of the 7 built, 6 are still in service.

To ALAMO; Cheers to you bro..  

I doubt Deltas will serve for much longer, esp. in the Pac.Fleet: https://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2023-10-26/1_1259_submarines.html

But as SSGNs they could carry more SLCMs than Oscar AMs/Yasens with their 72/32 CMs each, respectively.

If K-554 "Imperator Alexander III" is put into active service this year, then 7 Borei submarines or 3 X 955 and 4 X 955A will be active.
Since last year, the Borei project has been the most massive in terms of active SSBN submarines in the VMF.
And since the Russians DEFINITELY do not plan less than 12 submarines, then the existing 5 X 667 BDRM "Dolpfin" submarines will remain in service until the K-XXX "Knyaz Pozharskiy" (8th Borei and 5th 955A submarine) becomes operational next year.
So by the end of next year it will probably be Borei 7 : 5 Dolphin.

All "dolphins" were built during the USSR and their operational life was extended, so any talk about converting to SSGN submarines makes no sense.
It is easier to build a Borei submarine for this purpose.

IMO they'll keep building more Boreys to replace those aging 5 Deltas eventually.
Then some of them may be extended in service as multipurpose/special mission subs. Time will tell!

Tsavo Lion wrote:IMO they'll keep building more Boreys to replace those aging 5 Deltas eventually.
Then some of them may be extended in service as multipurpose/special mission subs. Time will tell!

The Delta IVs will be decommissioned and scrapped

There are another 4 Borey's to be built but this will take some time, given that only 8 were planned in the plan until 2020, and the rest until 2030 and there is a gap in between

In the Pacific, 5 will be received, including the K-554 Imperator Alexandr III
It is most likely that the remaining 7 will remain in the Northern Fleet, for now, in 2024 there will be 3 Borey's (including the Knyaz Pozharsky in tests) and 4 Delta IV

Of the Soviet legacy, only the life of several Oscar II 949AM and several Akula 971M will be extended to serve as a bridge until 2035-2040.

Even if so, some Deltas could be leased/sold to NK once they learn naval NPP operation, given their close realtions.
How many total Oscars will be modernized & Yasens built according to the current plans? In any case, those plans can be changed, so I wouldn't bet on them as written in stone.

667 BDRM are already old ships. It's just a pity about the new, very good Sinev missile.

Of the Soviet legacy, only the life of several Oscar II 949AM and several Akula 971M will be extended to serve as a bridge until 2035-2040. lancelot likes this post wrote:

After 20230, Russia will have just over 20 SSBNs and SSNs left.

The russians need to start getting tips from the Chinese on navy building.

The Chinese use a mishmash of western and Soviet designs on their ships... some licence produced and some not.

The 4 remaining Delta IVs must be replaced soon, hence rapid constructon of Boreys.
They may even convert some Deltas into SSGNs, just like the 1st 4 Ohios were in the USN. With their 154 CMs per sub, it's=3 SSNs each, or 12 total.
True force multipliers!

They converted a couple of Delta IIIs into mother ships for mini subs and "research", so it would make sense to use these Delta IVs for something too.

As Arsenal subs they are relatively stealthy and can enter and leave areas without drawing attention to itself like a cargo ship would.

Most importantly being nuclear powered they can run at high speed for long periods and shift from one location to another distant location fairly quickly to provide fire power as needed.

They are still relatively modern and capable subs.

And keep remembering that for the last decade, they have steadily put two operational in a year.

Not to mention for all its problems, the Lada class is lighter and has half the crew and better weapon loadout...

There is no doubt that the "dolphins" will be withdrawn from service in the coming years, but of the 7 built, 6 are still in service.

But in terms of an arsenal ship that can carry around large numbers of missiles these subs would be ideal and the fact that they are relatively quiet and still reasonably modern makes them more potent in the role than perhaps a less capable sub they might use would be.

The Akula SSBN would be the obvious choice but they are said to be quite expensive to operate and are huge which is a positive and a negative... I would say as Boreys get into service and the Delta IVs become surplus that making them arsenal ships is a clever use of otherwise perfectly good subs.

Oscars make more sense as SSGNs, and the idea of making the Deltas into SSNs like they did with the Yankees doesn't make much sense either.

SSGN submarines makes no sense.
It is easier to build a Borei submarine for this purpose.

Borei would be overkill as an SSGN. The Deltas seem to be fine and so keeping them active as force multipliers as arsenal ships able to deliver land attack missiles for an engagement would be rather useful... even if they carry drones for mass drone attacks would be interesting.

The Delta IVs will be decommissioned and scrapped

Sounds a bit wasteful considering the rate at which new subs are entering service.

The Delta IV is a good sub and would be a very good arsenal sub too.

To Arrow....

You are such a pessimist...  
The number of SSN/SSGN submarines is decreasing, but together with the SSBN there will surely be over 20 of them in 2030.


Sevmash is preparing to hand over TWO submarines K-553 "Imperator Alexander III" and K-571 "Krasnoyarsk" to the VMF.
Sevmash is currently building at least NINE submarines in its halls; 3 X 955A, 5 X 885M (counting "Ulyanovsk") and one project 09851 "Khabarovsk". By the way, it is expected that two submarines from that number will be launched, namely K-555 "Knyaz Pozharskiy" and K-564 "Arkhangelsk".

All together; 2 submarines are about to be put into active service, 2 about to be launched, and only 7 (6;  if "Khabarovsk" is also launched) remains under construction.
In total; 11 submarines.
The reality is that Sevmash is slowly being emptied and new keels have to be laid...

You are such a pessimist... Very Happy The number of SSN/SSGN submarines is decreasing, but together with the SSBN there will surely be over 20 of them in 2030. wrote:

Overall, they will probably remain the second largest fleet of nuclear submarines. The US also has a problem because it needs to replace its SSBN fleet.

The USA laid the keel for "Virginia" in 1999, that is, 24 years ago, and so far they have launched 25 submarines of that class, 22 of which are active.
Their plan to have over 60 attack submarines is not producing any results and the calculation is that in 2030 they will reach the "absolute minimum" with a total of 46 (now 49) SSN submarines in service.



Next year, the submarine "Virginia" completes 20 years of active service, and that is, at best, more than half of its operational life.
This was the delivery plan of the "Virginia" class per fiscal year and it was not met, not even close. For example, not a single submarine was delivered in 2021 and two were planned, while this year, instead of two, only one will be delivered.




As for Russia, since 2012 it has handed 10 nuclear submarines to its fleet; 3 X 955, 3 X 955A, 1 X 885, 2 X 885M and one project 09852 i.e. K-329 "Belgorod".
So half of the 20 submarines you mentioned have already been handed over.

* Two are about to be put into active service; K-553 "Imperator Alxander III" and K-571 "Krasnoyarsk". That's already 12 submarines...
* Two additional submarines will soon be launched; K-XXX "Knayz Pozharskiy" and the submarine I keep writing about; K-564 "Arkhangelsk". That's already 14 submarines.
* Seven submarines remain under construction; project 09951 "Khabarovsk", Knyaz Potemkin (955A), Dmitry Donskoy (955A), Perm (955A), Ulyanovsk (885M or 09851), Voronezh (885M) and Vladivostok (885M). And that is a total of 21 submarines.
* 4 additional submarines are planned; 2 X 955A and 2 X 885M. In any case, the number of attack submarines under construction is insufficient and I think that Russia is either going for 12 SSGN submarines, while a part of 3 or 4 submarines would be project 09851. Thats 25 submarines...

4 additional submarines are planned; 2 X 955A and 2 X 885M. In any case, the number of attack submarines under construction is insufficient and I think that Russia is either going for 12 SSGN submarines in total, and 3 or 4 additional submarines would be project 09851.
No "scenario" yet suggests to me that Russia could have the 24 SSGN submarines that Navykorabel.ru writes about, for example..
I am also afraid of the idea of ​​building a new project (successor to 885M) because according to the Russian reality it will take forever.

GarryB wrote:

Sounds a bit wasteful considering the rate at which new subs are entering service.

The Delta IV is a good sub and would be a very good arsenal sub too.

Delta´s will have more than 40 years of service in 2030, in soviet times the ships were made for a standar of 25 years, once Boreys enter in service Deltas will be scraped


"Arsenal Ship" sounds too american way of thinking

Russia is not going to destroy any 3º world country, only NATO military hardware

So from next year we will stay at ;
* 2 955A "Borei-A"; two under construction and two planned.
* 4 885M; 4 under construction if K-564 is launched (counting "Ulyanovsk") plus two more planned. Two of the submarines under construction, namely "Perm" and "Ulyanovsk", should be in the final stage of construction.
* 1 X 09851; we don't know anything about it except for "Khabarovsk" and it remains to be seen how the construction of that project will proceed. The submarine "Khabarovsk" has been under construction since 2014 and there is no news about it.

Therefore, of the 7 submarines under construction, at least 3 should be near the end of construction; Perm, Ulyanovsk, Khabarovsk.
As I wrote Sevmash is slowly emptying, so I believe it is time to lay the keels for 4 additional submarines.

* 2 launched submarines; K-XXX "Pozharskiy" (955A) and K-564 "Arkhangelsk" (885M).

Therefore, in the second half of this decade, we should expect the laying of the keels for additional 885M (or the successor of that project) and 09851.
And one more thing.. If the Russians are already planning to have a successor for BS-64 "Podmoskovye" (09787), then it is necessary to build another submarine rather than cutting down some 955 and convert it into a special purpose submarine.

I am convinced that the 971 submarines that have long been undergoing modernization that have not yet been completed will also remain in service for a few more years after 2030; K-461 "Volk" (1991), K-328 "Leopard" (1992), K-154 "Tigr" (1993), K-157 "Vepr/Boar" (1995) is active, and K-295 "Samara (1995). It is very likely that the K-335 "Gepard" will also be there, which will only complete 30 years of active service in 2031.
Resources for K-419 "Kuzbass" (1992) expire in 2025/6 and it remains to be seen whether the submarine will be overhauled.
Submarines K-317 "Pantera" (1990) and K-331 "Ex-Magadan" (1990) may be decommissioned in the second half of this decade. K-152 "Nerpa" (2009).... I don't know...

Podlodka77 wrote:

Therefore, in the second half of this decade, we should expect the laying of the keels for additional 885M (or the successor of that project) and 09851.
And one more thing.. If the Russians are already planning to have a successor for BS-64 "Podmoskovye" (09787), then it is necessary to build another submarine rather than cutting down some 955 and convert it into a special purpose submarine.

I am convinced that the 971 submarines that have long been undergoing modernization that have not yet been completed will also remain in service for a few more years after 2030; K-461 "Volk" (1991), K-328 "Leopard" (1992), K-154 "Tigr" (1993), K-157 "Vepr/Boar" (1995) is active, and K-295 "Samara (1995). It is very likely that the K-335 "Gepard" will also be there, which will only complete 30 years of active service in 2031.
Resources for K-419 "Kuzbass" (1992) expire in 2025/6 and it remains to be seen whether the submarine will be overhauled.
Submarines K-317 "Pantera" (1990) and K-331 "Ex-Magadan" (1990) may be decommissioned in the second half of this decade. K-152 "Nerpa" (2009).... I don't know...

For 2030-31 should have:

12 Borey´s
10 Yasen´s
about a dozen of soviet remaining subs: 971, 971M and 949AM
3 or 4 "Poseidon" carriers

the next decade 2030-2040 the last dozen of soviet submarines will be replazed for more Yasen or similiar

That's how I think, yes. The number of delivered Yasen-M must increase in the following years because the 9th and 10th Borei-A submarines have only been under construction for two years. Those 10 Yasen submarines, which you mention, coincide with two more planned and without the Ulyanovsk submarine. The only two 971 submarines that can reach the year 2040 are the K-335 Gepard and the K-152 Nerpa. We can only hope that the keels will be laid for two more 885M next year, and that in the second half of the decade only 885M or some other SSGN will be ordered, as well as 09851/09853.

... which is, again, more than UK and France combined.
Not to mention that this fleet will have some 30 more conventional subs that are more than enough to carry tasks all around the globe.