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Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

sepheronx

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Post n°251

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

sepheronx Sun Aug 20, 2023 5:27 am

I'll wait till final results are mentioned officially.

That said, they won't just give up. They will eventually do another run at it. Best method to learn and progress is to keep doing it.

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Big_Gazza

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Post n°252

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Big_Gazza Sun Aug 20, 2023 5:35 am

caveat emptor wrote:Instead of blaming sabotage or foreign spies, maybe explanation is much simpler and more straightforward. They lost competencies for many things Soviet Union could do. Majority of the scientists retired or left the country in the last 30+ years. If there was any sabotage, i can see it in governmental decisions of the last 20 years, where in most years, Roscosmos was grossly underfunded.

Nations without prior competancies are able to implement successful missions. Lost competancies can always be rebuilt - how else did NASA and Soviets develop these competancies in the first place. Under-funding is more likely. That is what wrecked Phobos-Grunt, trying to do an ambitious mission on a shoe-string budget and making design compromises and omitting extensive testing as a cost control measure. Space just can't be done on the cheap.

One way or the other there needs to be a consequence to this debacle.

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owais.usmani

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Post n°253

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

owais.usmani Sun Aug 20, 2023 5:57 am

Phobos Grunt fuckup in 2011 pales in comparison to this one, in my opinion.

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caveat emptor

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Post n°254

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

caveat emptor Sun Aug 20, 2023 6:00 am

@Big Gazza
You're right. On the other hand, Soviet space program was properly funded and best cadre was recruited for it.
Roscosmos with a shoestring budget can not even properly fund missions, let alone attract top talent that can find better work conditions in other industries.

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sepheronx

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Post n°255

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

sepheronx Sun Aug 20, 2023 6:14 am

owais.usmani wrote:Phobos Grunt fuckup in 2011 pales in comparison to this one, in my opinion.

If it's true what happened, then yes, I agree. It's a screw up extremely preventable.

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TMA1

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Post n°256

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

TMA1 Sun Aug 20, 2023 6:24 am

Yeah there needs to be a total shakeup in the teams involved in major projects like this if it is all true. Thry also need to redouble efforts, increase funding and tempo. This needs to be a wakeup call.

sepheronx

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Post n°257

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

sepheronx Sun Aug 20, 2023 6:26 am

TMA1 wrote:Yeah there needs to be a total shakeup in the teams involved in major projects like this if it is all true. Thry also need to redouble efforts, increase funding and tempo. This needs to be a wakeup call.

It won't be.

Russia has a natural talent in repeating same thing over and over again, spending way more down the line, then spending more now, to get the job done.

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TMA1

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Post n°258

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

TMA1 Sun Aug 20, 2023 6:41 am

For all their faults the Russians ste an amazing people. They need a fire lit under their asses and get their space program humming at a faste tempo and with better quality control. Like programs such as the bulava they need to clean house and double down.

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sepheronx

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Post n°259

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

sepheronx Sun Aug 20, 2023 6:47 am

TMA1 wrote:For all their faults the Russians ste an amazing people. They need a fire lit under their asses and get their space program humming at a faste tempo and with better quality control. Like programs such as the bulava they need to clean house and double down.

Issue is, they have far too many projects going on at same time with current budget.

The new space station is probably where they should be concentrating most on. You will notice that Russias military space projects are significantly much more successful than their civilian ones.

Anyway, they will make another attempt. They don't give up and I give them credit. But there needs to be far more automation implemented, especially on diagnostics and software. To remove potential human screw ups. Something roscosmos should be heavily involved in - AI. But that's pretty much secluded to military and maybe Yandex....

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flamming_python

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Post n°260

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

flamming_python Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:44 am

Welp, so much for that

NASA forums were right, this one was wrong. Told you fellas not to jinx it, but you started gloating already.

Scorpius wrote:EVEN if Luna-25 is lost, the mission is already at least partially successful.

No, it's totally unsuccessful same as all the other failed missions which screwed up on the landing phase and not anything else, which is most of those that failed

The only thing of value from this mission is the lesson learned. Assuming it is learned this time.

Last edited by flamming_python on Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:11 am; edited 3 times in total

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sepheronx

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Post n°261

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

sepheronx Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:00 am

They will just make another one and make another attempt. Better to do it in smaller steps.

flamming_python

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Post n°262

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

flamming_python Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:02 am

sepheronx wrote:They will just make another one and make another attempt. Better to do it in smaller steps.

Sure, in another however many years. Who doesn't make another attempt? Science marches on.

And by that time the propaganda effect of managing a successful mission during a time of Western war against Russia won't be a thing anymore.

But nevermind that.

And whatever anyone says, and despite the good relations with India; if the Indians succeed with their own mission, it will be something of a humiliation for Russia. And the symbolism will be noted by the rest of the world too.

There was a lot riding on success this time but it seems Roscosmos did not prepare itself and the mission as well as it should have. The Russian government in its turn did not ensure that Roscosmos made said preparations either, perhaps they did not explain the significance of the mission sufficiently.
There should be a head rolling by every step of a very, very long staircase by the time the investigation is finished.

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owais.usmani

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Post n°263

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

owais.usmani Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:17 am

Official statement from Roscosmos:

https://t.me/roscosmos_gk/10540

On August 19, in accordance with the flight program of the Luna-25 spacecraft, it was planned to issue an impulse to form its pre-landing elliptical orbit.

At about 14:57 Moscow time, communication with the Luna-25 spacecraft was interrupted.

The measures taken on August 19 and 20 to search for the device and get into contact with it did not produce any results.

According to the results of a preliminary analysis, due to the deviation of the actual parameters of the impulse from the calculated ones, the device switched to an off-design orbit and ceased to exist as a result of a collision with the lunar surface.

A specially formed interdepartmental commission will deal with the issues of clarifying the reasons for the loss of the Moon.

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limb

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Post n°264

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

limb Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:28 am

So was it a bozo controlling it or automated? Why isnt thrust control automated, if it isnt?

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RTN

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Post n°265

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

RTN Sun Aug 20, 2023 11:47 am

SLAVA Russia russia

Luna has crashed

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66562629?at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_origin=BBCBreaking&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_medium=social&at_link_id=9CFB9BDC-3F38-11EE-BCBA-99ABECABB293&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_type=web_link&at_format=link

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GarryB

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Post n°266

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

GarryB Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:07 pm

Failure is an important part of life.

Now all the faggots will circle and tell us how Russia can't do anything, but of course to be honest for Russia this is a minor setback...

I am sure if you asked them if they would trade the death rate on the battlefield in the Ukraine with the western supported Ukrainians and swapped economic situations with the west for a success on the moon I think they would be very happy with things just the way they are.

It is a disappointment but not something worth going all stalin and murdering everyone over.

Investigate what happened and try to do it better next time... don't gloss it over and claim sabotage... find the real problems if there were any and deal with them... if it was bad luck then take steps to minimise them next time.

You learn more from failure when you are doing new things... remember nobody has landed in this region yet, though India might get there first now, and good for them if they do.

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flamming_python

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Post n°267

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

flamming_python Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:09 pm

Yeah

I mean on the bright side, Russia did innovate a way to attack the moon Razz

With time it can be maybe developed into a means of wrecking others' accomplishments on the lunar surface. If Russia can't have nice things there, then no-one can tongue

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limb

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Post n°268

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

limb Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:10 pm

Failure is an important part of life.

And for roscosmos, success is a minor exception in life jocolor

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Begome

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Post n°269

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Begome Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:17 pm

Rest In Pieces Luna-25...may the moon men use your shattered body as spare parts to fix their washing machines...or something.

Apart from the lesson on not wasting tax payer money via insufficient preparation of critical mission components, which certainly should be learned, the more important lesson is about the big picture.

Apparently Mikhail Marov, head of the department of cosmological investigation and cosmochemistry of the Institute of Geochemistry and Analytical Chemistry, was delivered to the hospital, possibly in connection with the failure of Luna-25. Though it may also be unrelated, what a tragedy it would be if someone actually died from worry over a broken robot.

The important event of this weekend was our celebration of the Transfiguration of Jesus Christ. Happy HolyDay everyone!

PS: since the hyenas have now arrived to gloat as well I can drive this point further: what's a better gift to the future generations of Russians? To have more robots on the Moon than other nations or to have a stable, positive fertility rate, healthy, both physically and spiritually, children and whole families, while RTN's children will be cutting each other's genitals off in order to conform to "the current thing"...that is, if he manages to have any children at all given the increasing infertility of Western witches, oh sorry, "women" these days Laughing

Less scientism and progressivism, more of the One True Faith!

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Big_Gazza

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Post n°270

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Big_Gazza Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:30 pm

RTN wrote:SLAVA Russia Luna has crashed

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66562629?at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_origin=BBCBreaking&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_medium=social&at_link_id=9CFB9BDC-3F38-11EE-BCBA-99ABECABB293&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_type=web_link&at_format=link

Go fck yourself troll. I knew I had you blocked for good reasons.

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sepheronx

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Post n°271

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

sepheronx Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:30 pm

Interplanetary research is still important. A lot of the tech used can be used for other things too.

Who knows though. I hope they attempt again. But honestly, I do believe Roscosmos for most of its current structure, isn't competent enough. Too many failures. Maybe a new entity within Russia to handle specifically space exploration is needed. Maybe a third party company. Roscosmos then can concentrate on other specific programs that fits within their budget.

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flamming_python

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Post n°272

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

flamming_python Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:23 pm

sepheronx wrote:Interplanetary research is still important. A lot of the tech used can be used for other things too.

Who knows though. I hope they attempt again. But honestly, I do believe Roscosmos for most of its current structure, isn't competent enough. Too many failures. Maybe a new entity within Russia to handle specifically space exploration is needed. Maybe a third party company. Roscosmos then can concentrate on other specific programs that fits within their budget.

Whatever helps you cope sepheronx

Whatever helps you cope.. dunno

As for me though, Roscosmos is a name tared in shame. They should make some mockups of this grand 50-year absent moon rover comeback mission robot, and have them installed in every single one of those shiny new space exploration museums that the Russian government has built around the country over the past 10 years.
All of these 'we were first!' banners, or TV programs, or any other propaganda material should have an outline of the Luna-25 robot at least in the corner somewhere. Because that's all this celebration of past glory is worth.

I was even ready to praise Rogozin, had the mission succeeded. That he for all his blather-mouthing, had somehow succeeded in breaking Roscosmos's negligence and shaking things up there. But na, how could he have of course. He was and is, useless.

The worst part is that it was a propaganda own-goal of Russia's own making. They themselves had hyped up the mission and promoted it as this next big thing.
If Roscosmos and the government had instead kept their mouths shut, cognizant of their own record of decades worth of failures, mentioned the mission somewhere only in passing, and then, IF it had succeeded, then announce it to their own people and the world as "Oh by the way, we hadn't been to the moon in 50 years but here we've succeeded in landing there where nobody else had ever gone to and now we're going to find out how much water is buried here if any which is critical info for everyone's future missions" - then that would have been a far more sensible approach. As it would have allowed for the converse, to keep your mouth shut instead if the mission failed - as it always probably was going to, and to pretend that nothing happened.

Instead though if I ever come across anyone who tells me that they work at Roscosmos, I'll laugh in their face. Even if I myself would work only at some car-repair shop. Roscosmos is beneath me, to associate yourself with it is to humiliate yourself.

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Belisarius

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Post n°273

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Belisarius Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:54 pm

And for roscosmos, success is a minor exception in life

Earlier this year Russia set a national record of 100 consecutive successful launches of space launch vehicles in its modern history, in addition to being responsible for the overwhelming majority of manned launches in the last 15 years.
Minor exception you say jocolor

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AlfaT8

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Post n°274

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

AlfaT8 Sun Aug 20, 2023 2:07 pm

Communication problems seem to happen at the oddest of times, perhaps its time Russia tests out its new quantum encryption communication systems and see if there is any "interruption" then.

Overall, very sad, i hope they find whatever "Bug" screwed up this mission and wish them luck on Luna-26.

From what i understood this Luna probe was a completely fresh start for Roscosmos and was obviously going to have teething issues.

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PapaDragon

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Post n°275

Re: Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

PapaDragon Sun Aug 20, 2023 2:19 pm

owais.usmani wrote:Phobos Grunt fuckup in 2011 pales in comparison to this one, in my opinion.

They had so many fuckups that it's getting impossible to keep track of them

At this point they coalesced into one big fuckup blob

caveat emptor wrote:@Big Gazza
You're right. On the other hand, Soviet space program was properly funded and best cadre was recruited for it.
Roscosmos with a shoestring budget can not even properly fund missions, let alone attract top talent that can find better work conditions in other industries.

How would more money help here? For the first time in forever they had plenty

This thing was working just fine until some idiot decided that it needs to go fasta'

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