Roscosmos Planetary Exploration Missions

Hahaha you shouldn't have mentioned Rogozin as it will inevitably invoke papadragon

TMA1 wrote:Hahaha you shouldn't have mentioned Rogozin as it will inevitably invoke papadragon

I am dead serious, bro

Pre-Rogozin Roskosmos didn't even know what Internet was but now they spend more time on social networks than OnlyFans whores

I know papa and indeed you are correct. I meant no offense it is the exact opposite. Its just that your irascible takes on Rogozin are endearing homie.

I am fond of all you guys and you all have different takes and vibes which many other boards and defense forums lack. In short you guys are great. This place is a kind of refuge.

PapaDragon wrote:

Kiko wrote:Unfortunately Luna-25 coincided with India's Chandrayaan-3.

What does Indian mission have to do with anything?

As per Anatoly Zak:

https://www.russianspaceweb.com/luna-glob-flight.html#0819

According to one rumor surfaced on August 20, the Onboard Flight Control System, BKU (INSIDER CONTENT) of the lander mishandled the so-called variable thrust controller (privod regulyatora tyagi), which manages the operation of the propulsion system (INSIDER CONTENT) on Luna-Glob. Around the same time, the offcial Russian media quoted IKI scientist Natan Eismont as saying that tyhe problems with the spacecraft had been discovered well before the fatal orbit-lowering maneuver, which would have to be postponed to deal with the problem. Accoridng to some speculations on the Russian social media, the mission managers were pressured not to postpone the transfer to a lower orbit in order to beat an Indian lander to the lunar surface, which was scheduled to touch down near the South Pole of the Moon on Aug. 23, 2023.

Could be legit but Anatoly Zak is a snake.

PapaDragon wrote:
Every single one of their achievements have been matched and surpassed decades ago by several nations
They haven't achieved anything of note in over half a century

And when I say 'their' I mean USSR's

USSR achievements:
- First satellite
- First man in space
- First soft landings on Moon, Mars and Venus
- First space station

PapaDragon wrote:
Russian Federation achieved precisely nothing so far

Russian Federation achievements:
Russia was the only country to transport Astronauts to ISS from 2011-2020.
If it wasn't Russia and Roskosmos ISS wouldn't be there.

In the meantime, Russia developed whole set of new generations of satellites from weather (Elektro-L1,2,3), communications, navigations, military and etc..

GLONASS has full coverage and had it since 2010...well before EU, China and only after US.

Soyuz rockets were modernized with new variants, Soyuz and Progress spaceships were modernised, ANGARA is there, new cosmodrome is there.

From research point of view there were successful missions like:
Spektr-R, Spektr-RG, Koronas Foton

Luna-25 at least reached moon and entered orbit and it did it in a record low flying time...of course it is such a pity that it didn't land but landing on the moon is not that easy and especially on the south pole.
Calling it a catastrophe and a disasters is an exaggeration and those claims are usually made by nations which can't even make it to the low earth orbit.

Yes Phobos Grunt and MARS-96 were failures, but it was nothing in comparison to the Columbia and Challenger disasters.
Not to mention endless failures of starship, but yet SpaceX and Musk are always cool and Roskosmos is a garbage.......give me a break pls.

Hey, Russians fucked up and his guys didn't

They are paying for a war in Europe against Russia... of course they fucked up... infinitely more so when Putin was talking about partnership and cooperation, but they wanted it all and they will end up with nothing...

In comparison a small robot crashing into the moon is nothing at all.

Are you serious?

So you have never failed at anything at all?

Maybe that is why you are not where you could be if you had set your goals higher...

Those who can, do, those who can't, teach.

Build more than one probe each, try more often instead with decades between launches and don't fùck up with the most basic shit

So double the price and halve the number of missions they can launch... brilliant.

The scientist believes that since a problem arose, it was necessary to wait and postpone the transition to a pre-landing orbit. According to him, there would be "nothing terrible" in this.
"It is sad that there was a time and, apparently, the decision on how to proceed was not made the best," the scientist added.

So it sounds like the pressure to get it down on schedule led to them not delaying and doing it right... roughly the same thing that killed those Poles in that flight to Russia...

The only downside to this is that they only got 2 other probes in the pipeline in the next 6 or so years.
They should speed this up to one probe every year. Put some of the experiments and systems on different
probes. The production facilities are there, just like the specialists, so let them work 24/7. Can´t be hard
for the state to find those extra funds.

The have shifted satellite production to a serial production method, before they were essentially hand made... well perhaps they need to do something similar to probes... making robots and drones should be perfected to create a range of drones and robots that can work in all sorts of environments including space and underwater as well as in the air etc etc.

Reminds me of how Kaczinski ordered his pilot to land at Smolensk despite the weather conditions being highly unsuitable.

That is always going to happen.

Misuse of power really.

And for what, to beat India in a space race they themselves didn't realize they were in? Russia had itself decided that it was in a space race with India - which is a friendly country BTW, not an adversarial one.

Who said it was a race? The goals were listed several times and not once did they mention beating anyone... they are exploring the moon to find places suitable for a moon base... of which water would be an important factor... whether they find it or India finds it does not matter much at all.

Luna 25's crash shows how tough this stuff is. This is Russia - they are responsible for 50% of all human advances in rocket science. Even then...

If it was easy everyone could be doing it.

Russian Federation achieved precisely nothing so far

They are withstanding sanctions that were supposed to be destroying their economy and lead to Putins overthrow and arrest...

But keep cheer leading for the west, I am sure you will be richly rewarded like the Taliban were and the Ukrainians are now.

I say Russia needs to hurry up and Launch another Moon probe ASAP. We don't have time to wait until 2027 for another Luna-26. It needs to be done in 3 months. Russia's reputation is on the line here.

I am sure they have a cupboard full of the things... but it might take until 2027 for them to select exactly the right one to send...

But you russian homos have friends up the ass.

The Russian homos are running to the west... where they have power...

I dont know what the **** I was smoking thinking that in the 2030s Russia will have planned man to mars projects.

Probes on the moon have exactly zero to do with missions to mars, and no one is going to mars till they have a decent propulsion system that will get them there much faster than a chemical rocket will get them there.

If they had left it to automatic control it would have succeeded. But you see here the progressive rot of large organizations where
more and more rules for "safety" and "success" are imposed that make the whole process a Rube Goldberg farce. Why the F*CK do
they need to communicate with the spacecraft all the way down. They are not piloting a Cessna.

The irony is that the cargo ship that crashed into Mir was being manually docked too... it was over weight and they didn't realise till too late... or that Russian airliner that flew into that American cargo plane over Europe where the air controller told the pilot to climb when his aircraft avoidance system told him to go down...

I find the reaction by the exceptionalist chumps over at the NASA forums and this RTN guy here quite telling though

It is all very sad really.... they need everyone else to fail at everything to make them feel better... they are broken bitter people.

I am dead serious, bro

Pre-Rogozin Roskosmos didn't even know what Internet was but now they spend more time on social networks than OnlyFans whores

PR is an important part of the game... even if it is largely wasted on the west, the rest of the world should be kept informed...

I know papa and indeed you are correct. I meant no offense it is the exact opposite. Its just that your irascible takes on Rogozin are endearing homie. thumbsup

I am fond of all you guys and you all have different takes and vibes which many other boards and defense forums lack. In short you guys are great. This place is a kind of refuge.

Kinda sad and amusing all at the same time...

Russian Federation achievements:

Seems to be successfully turning its back on the west and reaching out to the rest of the world to create an alternative to the US future Americans believe the future of human civilisation will be.

Something the Soviet Union could never hope to do...

owais.usmani wrote:
As per Anatoly Zak:

https://www.russianspaceweb.com/luna-glob-flight.html#0819

According to one rumor surfaced on August 20, the Onboard Flight Control System, BKU (INSIDER CONTENT) of the lander mishandled the so-called variable thrust controller (privod regulyatora tyagi), which manages the operation of the propulsion system (INSIDER CONTENT) on Luna-Glob. Around the same time, the offcial Russian media quoted IKI scientist Natan Eismont as saying that tyhe problems with the spacecraft had been discovered well before the fatal orbit-lowering maneuver, which would have to be postponed to deal with the problem. Accoridng to some speculations on the Russian social media, the mission managers were pressured not to postpone the transfer to a lower orbit in order to beat an Indian lander to the lunar surface, which was scheduled to touch down near the South Pole of the Moon on Aug. 23, 2023.

Anatoly Zak is an idiot which went completely insane after SMO.
He had an orgasm after Luna-25 failed and that was what he was hoping and waiting for.

That guy will re-publish anything he read on Telegram which put Roscosmos and Russia in a negative view...doesn't matter how crazy it sounds. If you read Telegram channels he used as a source you will quickly realized that most of those "rumors" they are talking about are some people imaginations and nothing else.

What is strange and what fascinates me in Russian society is that you have many people which are "happy" when bad things (like Luna-25) happen. They immediately start BS talk about corruption, incompetence and etc... Guys, Luna-25 (1.7ton) thing reached and orbited moon. When Elon musk sent Tesla in Earth's orbit it was a media sensation and people were talking how SpaceX is awesome and Roscosmos is doomed.

Ned86 wrote:
What is strange and what fascinates me in Russian society is that you have many people which are "happy" when bad things (like Luna-25) happen. They immediately start BS talk about corruption, incompetence and etc...

From all things you mentioned, why in the world would that fascinate you? I think that Russians excel in self hate even Serbs and by a healthy margin. It is enough to see what this **** Arkhangelsk write in the forum. And you have plenty of Russians that fled the country or function like there's no existential war on their doorstep.

Zak is very knowledgeable and everything, but he is a "liberal" (in the Russian sense of the word) which reflects in his lack of objectivity.

The "glee" when something goes to hell is one thing, kind of off-putting, however some of his criticisms are definitely warranted (same thing seen here too, and I don't think any of this forum's contributors are "liberals")

Roscosmos has had extraordinarily bad management and a significant corruption problem, for a very long time.

One thing I don't get is the criticism voiced here regarding their social media drive as of late. Their PR division was laughably bad before, now it's more polished and has way better reach. They publish a lot of material, both shiny PR and educational stuff, and that is a very good thing. Getting people interested in what they do, getting kids interested, I mean -- that's where it all starts. You can't complain about them and about Russian society as a whole being lost in nostalgia over USSR achievements and lacking the competence built up over those years, only to in the same breath complain about them trying to do something about it now. Doesn't make sense.

Here is the complete interview if anyone can translate: https://t.me/roscosmos_gk/10552

Big_Gazza wrote:
My mother passed away recently.  

My deepest condolences in this regard.

owais.usmani wrote:

https://twitter.com/katlinegrey/status/1693638624678412639

Here is the complete interview if anyone can translate: https://t.me/roscosmos_gk/10552

In short: Borisov reports that the flight mission was checked and tested several times before being loaded onto Luna-25. Why the engine worked 127 seconds instead of the required 84 is still unknown. Perhaps the reason was a malfunction of the propulsion system. They admit that what happened is a painful blow to the development team, but it also gave invaluable experience that should not be lost. So the leadership of Roscosmos intends to defend an increase in the intensity of developments in the field of the Lunar program in the future.

Scorpius wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:
My mother passed away recently.  

My deepest condolences in this regard.

Mine too

Scorpius wrote:

owais.usmani wrote:https://twitter.com/katlinegrey/status/1693638624678412639

Here is the complete interview if anyone can translate: https://t.me/roscosmos_gk/10552

In short: Borisov reports that the flight mission was checked and tested several times before being loaded onto Luna-25. Why the engine worked 127 seconds instead of the required 84 is still unknown. Perhaps the reason was a malfunction of the propulsion system. They admit that what happened is a painful blow to the development team, but it also gave invaluable experience that should not be lost. So the leadership of Roscosmos intends to defend an increase in the intensity of developments in the field of the Lunar program in the future.

Well it's bit of a healthier attitude as long as it results in slapping together another one without waiting for a whole decade (as in this time next year, at the latest) and doing it right this time


As for rumors of that "space race" with freaking India AKA non-hostile nation I'll put it on ice for now but if that turns out to be true I will be giving a massive opinion on it, believe that


(Mods might as well lock this tread now, the probe is gone and we already have existing tread for Roskosmos fiascos)

The 127 seconds story points to incompetence or sabotage. Imagine Russian missiles in Ukraine missing their targets by kilometers.
That is how ludicrous this is. There is a computer that sends the engine on and off instructions and the code was compromised
enough to f*ck up the duration to a catastrophic extent and kill the mission. This is not a "mistake" or an "accident". Either the
code was messed up before launch or there was intervention during the mission which seems to be the case.

If no heads roll from this incident, then Borisov will have established himself to be a compromised clown. People need to be removed regardless
of the details.

kvs wrote:The 127 seconds story points to incompetence or sabotage.  Imagine Russian missiles in Ukraine missing their targets by kilometers.
That is how ludicrous this is.   There is a computer that sends the engine on and off instructions and the code was compromised
enough to f*ck up the duration to a catastrophic extent and kill the mission.   This is not a "mistake" or an "accident".   Either the
code was messed up before launch or there was intervention during the mission which seems to be the case.

If no heads roll from this incident, then Borisov will have established himself to be a compromised clown.   People need to be removed regardless
of the details.  

Dude, you have an overactive imagination as everyone with similar claims about sabotage and incompetence.

Sabotaging by putting wrong data is impossible because there are checks and measures to prevent this and whole team of people is involved.

Incompetence ?
This is the most ridiculous accusation and as I said usually cames from nations which can't put satellite in LEO.
They delivered 1.7 ton probe to the moon orbit and this alone is highly sophisticated thing.

Do note all the well-wishes and good-natured comments from mostly Indians on the video

None of them knew Russia was in a space race with their country to land on the moon. Probably a good thing. But our propaganda YouTube channels knew; up to a week before the landing they started talking about the 'space race' to get to the Moon. So I know something was up.

Instead of pressuring Roscosmos to do their job properly, I suspect Russian high-ups pressured Roscosmos to beat India to the punch instead. And now we have a bunch of broken dreams, humiliations and a scientist in hospital too over it.

I guess the 'race' entailed giving that ol' rover an extra 40-something seconds of thrust too, to just get it down there that much faster

Meh, apparently it's not clear to some people that this mission is very much like a guided missile launch. The objective was hitting a point on the
Moon and not one in Kiev. They f*cked it up completely. The only difference with a missile launch is the landing has to be soft. Establishing
orbits and de-orbiting is regular guidance and control. They should not bother if they can't handle this task. This includes having any non-negligible
probability of uncontrolled firing of thrusters. Failure on first attempt is nothing like the failure rate of the missiles that Russia is using against Ukria.
There are no winds in space to complicate the control.

Glitching thrusters and glitching guidance computers is proof of sabotage or gross incompetence. There is no "accident" or quality assurance
variance here. Did they leave a rag in the mechanical actuator of the thruster? Was it a one-off model built by hand? Maybe some components
were hammered in upside down or some bolts were not properly torqued or even installed.

If there was indeed political pressure on the mission, then whoever was involved needs to be shot. It was sabotage by itself and would
have opened up opportunity for sabotage by last minute messing with the control program. The initial stories about communication with
the craft begin to add up. Some collection of clowns decided that they could wing it by hacking faster landing and manually handling the
risk. At least that is probably the BS that was fed to the managers. These managers and most of their employees need to be fired and
some should face prosecution.

kvs wrote:Meh, apparently it's not clear to some people that this mission is very much like a guided missile launch.   The objective was hitting a point on the
Moon and not one in Kiev.   They f*cked it up completely.   The only difference with a missile launch is the landing has to be soft.   Establishing
orbits and de-orbiting is regular guidance and control.   They should not bother if they can't handle this task.

This is nothing to do with a guided missile launch...not even close..and nothing to compare.
Hitting a moon from Earth is like hitting golf hole in Kyiv with a missile......and soft landing in a particular point of the moon is like going through an eye of the needle in Kyiv with a missile.

Speed, distances, size ratios, cosmic radiations etc... it is completely different world and even partially Luna-25 did a good job.

At the end of the day Russia doesn't need to justify too much because they did everything 50 years ago, what India, Japan and EU are trying to do now.

All these speculations about someone putting pressure on the team to land the probe before India is a nonsense and fiction just like 99% story about Russia which we see in Mainstream media.

They are running out of missiles, ammunitiots, food, electronics, economy is tatters and the proof about their incompetency is that their interplanetary probe didn't soft land on the moon........give me a break mate.....

flamming_python wrote:....
Do note all the well-wishes and good-natured comments from mostly Indians on the video

Polite reaction indeed

Appropriate one would be to laugh their asses off

flamming_python wrote:....None of them knew Russia was in a space race with their country to land on the moon. Probably a good thing. But our propaganda YouTube channels knew; up to a week before the landing they started talking about the 'space race' to get to the Moon. So I know something was up.

Instead of pressuring Roscosmos to do their job properly, I suspect Russian high-ups pressured Roscosmos to beat India to the punch instead. And now we have a bunch of broken dreams, humiliations and a scientist in hospital too over it....

One thing I don't get is why India of all places?

Did someone in Roskosmos didn't like how their favorite Indian soap opera ended or something?

And when is that Indian probe supposed to land anyway? I don't remember hearing anything about India doing the Moon lately

flamming_python wrote:....
I guess the 'race' entailed giving that ol' rover an extra 40-something seconds of thrust too, to just get it down there that much faster

It made sense boss, the Moon atmosphere was supposed to slow down the probe for soft landing  

PapaDragon wrote:Polite reaction indeed

Appropriate one would be to laugh their asses off

If they knew the half of it..

flamming_python wrote:One thing I don't get is why India of all places?

Did someone in Roskosmos didn't like how their favorite Indian soap opera ended or something?

And when is that Indian probe supposed to land anyway? I don't remember hearing anything about India doing the Moon lately

Yeah I can't work it out either.

What is this, some echo of the Russo-Japanese war or something, where Russia was humiliated by being beaten by a non-European power?

India launched their space probe months earlier. There really would have been no 'humiliation' involved at all, by simply taking all the time you need to ensure the highest chance of success possible

Here's one of the biggest Russian propaganda channels talking about the race to the moon between Russia and India a week ago, and I'm pretty sure there was another channel with a similar video

If it boils down to management pushing things just to outdo India, then those management need to be fired.

Indian mission has orbiter, lander and rover

It would always be more impressive mission than Russian one no matter how long the trip took

If this speed rumor is true Russians just self destructed their own probe literally for nothing



I hope India succeeds flawlessly and that before next Russian mission every other nation which tries lunar mission succeeds, especially Israelis

Some long overdue walk of shame is in order for Roskosmos