MiG-29/ΜiG-35 Fulcrum: News #2

yup, I agree with marecellogo and FP -> production capacities and ready production lines + tested and ready to launch production capable fighter.

In times of potential NATO full scale aggression imho it shall go to army + export possibilities. Especially India. Indians know how to count money and Rafale is surely more expensive than MiG not really better though.

Iran too might need many new fighters too.

having more jets is 1 thing.  Having capable jets is another.

Back in the hayday, maybe the MiG-29's where ideal and a real competitor to the F-16.  But todays day, and its rather lackluster upgrades, it isn't really all that necessary - heck, a problem.  You want not just numbers but quality too, and there is a reason why nations weren't interested in the newest MiG's but going with the Sukhois.

Anyway, hopefully there is far more to these potential MiG-35's than what we know.  Like - better radar which is most important besides its weapons.  Current radar is very lackluster in performance.

Too much limitations with its current design. Power output is low and the Radar is the sign of that. PESA, AESA or whatever doesn't matter. What matters is if it works and works well and while the PESA radar onboard is capable, it isn't actually that capable compared to what the Sukhoi's use or even the AESA or PESA used by enemy states.

@FP
Are you sure that Sokol still has needed number of workers and that part of them wasn't transferred to other plants?
In a recent  Patrushev's interview  to TASS, he pointed that industry needs 14000 specialist, at the moment, and that shortage of qualified workers  is their main concern.
I doubt that workers in Sokol plant just sit around doing nothing, with so many outstanding military and civilian orders.

What a waste.

It's better to just invest the money into more Su-57's and have Mikoyan work hard on modernization and advancements of MiG-31 and its replacement.

What do you mean waste... they spent a lot of money and time developing the aircraft... it would be a waste to not use it.

This is a Hornet/Rafale class fighter except for a fraction of the price that will be compatible with all the new weapons they are developing and putting into service over the next few years.

Let's not forget it also still lacks the AESA radar which was the reason russian AF was considering it back in 2012

Yeah, because aircraft with AESA radars are perfect and never get shot down... when is France going to send Rafales to Kiev?

I doubt russian air force will buy more of them.

It is funny that so many say the RuAF will buy Checkmates but wont buy MiG-35s... do they need a low cost numbers fighter or not?

However the RuAF needs new air-frames right now, not in several years time.

It would be easier to build up numbers with lighter cheaper fighters like the MiG-35 than with heavy expensive fighters like the Su-57 and Su-35 and upgraded Su-30s and Su-34s and MiG-31s.

If mig leaders were smart rnough to make the mig-35 like a su-75 they would be selling it like pancakes.

They are geniuses... the Izd-33 was put forward at the same time the MiG-29 was put forward and was rejected by the RuAF because it only had one engine...



(note left side with dogtooth in the LERX and horizontal tail surface and smooth curved LERX and tail on the right side of the same model to test out each design.)

Those dumbass just re-engineered a little bit the mig-29Kr which was a little bit re-engineered mig-29M which was a re-engineered old mig-29M which was a multirole mig-29S.

Which reveals your ignorance on the matter really... aerodynamically there was nothing that really needed changes but the airframe was totally redesigned, and they adapted the design so the two seater and the single seater had the same design so the operator can change between the two types without problems.

The design also meant an enormous increase in the available volume internally for fuel because each section is now sealed and does not require a fuel bladder or lining to be used to store fuel... that makes the aircraft much lighter and also greatly increases the internal fuel fraction of the aircraft.

After the catastrophic results of mig-29 in Midlle east wars as well as in Yougoslavia, it was cristal clear they should have created a new light 5th gen fighters asap. And they had all the tech developed for mig-1.44.

Again, you ignorance on the subject is astounding... the catastrophic results for HATO during testing against a simple export model MiG-29 led to the spending money and setting up an opposing forces air wing of the German airforce dedicated to flying MiG-29s in the desperate attempt to learn its weaknesses and strengths as quickly as possible to avoid being destroyed by an enemy operating them.

Experience with MiG-29s led to the rapid introduction of the AMRAAM to avoid close combat because HATO planes would lose.

Most MiG-29s in the Middle East were massively outnumbered and flew to Iran. The Iraqi planes were downgraded export models comparable with late model MiG-23s with inferior IRSTs and less acceleration.

MiG-29s in Serbia was after training for 5+ years to fight against such aircraft, with planes with non functioning radar and equipment and totally out numbered.

And frankly, su-30 is cheaper to produce than mig-35 IMO.

The only Su-30 that would be cheaper would be the original Su-27UB operational trainer, but it would be rather more expensive to operate which is the whole point of the MiG family.

Why MiG-35 s considered an alternative to already existing fighter and not as a complements?

It was always intended as a lower cost (operational cost) compliment to the larger longer ranged fighters.

I think resources should go to up production, even modernize Sokol plant to produce Sukhoi jets like Su-35's, Su-30's and work towards Su-75.

Russia can no more afford an all Sukoi fleet than the money printing US could afford an all F-15 fleet or an all F-22 fleet.

It is simply not practical.

It would be like only having An-124 transport planes and nothing smaller.

Capabilities of it are sub par against modern F-16's and as Isos said, it's main selling feature doesn't exist for it, while the Su-57 has it already in production.

Please enlighten us about how amazing F-16s are... in the 1990s the F-16s were destroyed in tests against MiG-29s... they didn't even get into position for a shot.

These days F-16s have high offboresight missiles and AMRAAMs which raises them up to the level of a 1980s MiG-29 in Soviet service... but that is not saying that much.

having more jets is 1 thing. Having capable jets is another.

Why do you hate MiG-35s?

Back in the hayday, maybe the MiG-29's where ideal and a real competitor to the F-16.

Western propaganda is strong... MiG-29s used to be the boogeyman... the all powerful super soviet fighter... but then countries had them in service and suddenly they were crap. MiG-29s had to be terrible because why would Germany spend money on the expensive Typhoon if upgraded MiG-29SMTs could do a better job at a fraction of the price, so a huge anti MiG-29 campaign started in the western media and has never stopped... the Flanker can be the boogeyman so they don't need the MiG to be any good... despite being just as fast and able to work within the same IADS with the same weapons.

Funny the fine line between a great plane and crap.

You want not just numbers but quality too, and there is a reason why nations weren't interested in the newest MiG's but going with the Sukhois.

Egypt went for the MiG-29M and not the Su-35 which was not worth the agro it seems...

Anyway, hopefully there is far more to these potential MiG-35's than what we know. Like - better radar which is most important besides its weapons. Current radar is very lackluster in performance.

You don't spend big money on a flash radar if there are no orders for the plane. The current radar does the job... if they want a new radar then let them buy enough to make it worth the investment.

Power output is low and the Radar is the sign of that. PESA, AESA or whatever doesn't matter.

Some people have suggested this... when it gets an AESA radar are you going to claim they somehow boosted the power output by magic?

Funny thing is that when you put together a house you allow within the electrical design of the fittings for expected and intended use... the MiG-35 was from the start intended to have an AESA radar... just like the Su-57 was supposed to have boosted performance engines... perhaps they should just scrap them both?

What matters is if it works and works well and while the PESA radar onboard is capable, it isn't actually that capable compared to what the Sukhoi's use or even the AESA or PESA used by enemy states.

This is the MiG-29/35 thread so why not post the information... the MiG-31 had PESA since the early 1980s but you say they are now idiots... what ever LSOS has seems to be contagious.

You need to reread what I said. If you need help I can provide it.

I'll give a hint - I'm saying power output is what matters, not so much the technological difference between the radar structure.

I'm certain that was obvious in my post.

Sepheronx wrote:You need to reread what I said. If you need help I can provide it.
I'll give a hint - I'm saying power output is what matters, not so much the technological difference between the radar structure.
I'm certain that was obvious in my post.

And infact USA waited so long before allowing F-16 upgrade with AESA radar because also with it their pitch performances would have been inferior to the one of Typhoon using a mechanical scanning radar.
Error of Eurofighter's nations was to cancel 3B batches production and to wait for the Caesar radar to be retrofitted into the existing ones.
No one there is advocating a long term acquisition of MiG-35 to be the main light fighter of VKS, only to produce it NOW until the Su-75 will be ready to mass production, once is done complete the last batch and switch the assembly line into it.
Also because the Su-75 would need the same novel infrastructures of the Su-57 to operate so it cannot be the direct replacement of planes in already existing bases.

I dont really get the dislike of the Mig-29, its a perfectly servicable fighter.
Smaller nations will definitly benefit from these small modern fighters

Power output is a legit concern, but these are small interceptors to begin with.
I do wish the Russians would deploy the more modern radar sets to these fighters, but they have other priorities right now.
Like properly upgrading their T-72s.

Because countries are fielding 5th gen fighters in mass. That mig-35 neither has a good radar to deal with them, nor the new missiles nor the rcs to not be detected at max range by enemy radars.

It's a 20 years late plateform.

F-35 would pick it up on their radar from 250km away and new amraam and meteor would be launched from 200km away. It won't even notice until it's too late and 2 or 3 missiles pop up on it RWR few seconds before a hit.

With a su-75, f-35 would need to come much closer to detect it leading to their own detection by the su-75.

By power output you mean of the radar, or the available electricity for avionics, radar and other equipment that the generator attached to the klimov RD-33 engine can produce?

If it is the radar, we can hope that Phazotron-NIIR will come up with a new or improved radar. If it is the latter than it is a matter of the maximum energy that can be extracted.


For that they may need a new generator attached to the accessory gearbox of the engine, and possibly also some modification to the engine and to the gearbox.

Possibly it would be also time for a new engine in that power range or another improved version of the RD-33.


I am also curious if Klimov has the resources to develop a modern military turbofan in that power range, or if they need help from Saturn, since probably they have their hands full with all the small and medium turboshafts and turboprop projects (vk-650v, vk1600v and ODV-4000)

Dont know if it will happen. Mikoyan has had a string of QC issues. Also the Indians have made some blunders with the naval variant that has not helped things at all. I agree that the su-75 should be rapidly developed as replacement. I love the mig-29 and I think if the QC issues are fixed and an air cooled active array radar with jammer and sensor packages was included it could be very attractive. The issue is the mig-35 still isnt fully complete as it was envisioned and I think Russia should move on to newer stuff.

Also speaking of propaganda, western NGOs and intelligence assets (government and private) have focused on India and are working hard to peel away "dependence on Russian military equipment". Russia needs to go on the offensive to stop these tricks by western interests.

The question is: is Russia ready to only have heavy fighter aircrafts (su-35 and su57) plus a single engine fighter (su-57) for multirole/air superiority?

From what I understood, until now Russian air force preferred having a small to medium twin (Mig29 and derivatives) compared with a single engine.


And the main issue for a new modern light to medium weight twin is not the airframe, but possibly the engine as the RD-33 was developed starting in the 70s. Of course it has been improved for the MiG 29M and Mig29K versions, but maybe that is not yet enough for a modern jet, especially if supercruise and higher electricity generation (to power new equipment) become important requirements.

Russia is not that keen anyway on preferring a single engine. Those are more the possible export customers (and the Su-75 is thought especially for them).

Anyway, I still do not understand the issue of giving so much importance to th RCS. Yes it is good to limit it, but if it compromise its ruggedness and it's easiness of maintenance, it means that you end up with a very expensive aircraft only useful in peacetime.

And i do not understand why the mig35 should not have decent enough missiles. It should be able to use the same missiles as the Su-35.

@FP
Are you sure that Sokol still has needed number of workers and that part of them wasn't transferred to other plants?
In a recent  Patrushev's interview  to TASS, he pointed that industry needs 14000 specialist, at the moment, and that shortage of qualified workers  is their main concern.
I doubt that workers in Sokol plant just sit around doing nothing, with so many outstanding military and civilian orders.

Of course not, that plant has been idling for years now

But the plant is still there, the equipment, tooling, the various facilities, and basically the expertise here and there. Workers can always be transferred from other plants, and new ones hired.

If they want more workers, they should try raising the salaries. Their penny-pinching is a disgrace.

Dont know if it will happen. Mikoyan has had a string of QC issues. Also the Indians have made some blunders with the naval variant that has not helped things at all. I agree that the su-75 should be rapidly developed as replacement. I love the mig-29 and I think if the QC issues are fixed and an air cooled active array radar with jammer and sensor packages was included it could be very attractive. The issue is the mig-35 still isnt fully complete as it was envisioned and I think Russia should move on to newer stuff.

Newer stuff does exist - the Su-75, but it's years away from production even if development and testing is rushed.

The Mig-35 is ready for production now and until the Su-75 project is ready it is the go-to light fighter, there is nothing more modern. Even with whatever radar.

Yes there were issues with the Indian MiG-29Ks, although that might be more due to general inexperience with constructing naval fighters than the airframe itself. And yes they would be at a disadvantage against F-35s and F-22s and whatever.
But Russia won't just be up against 5th gen fighters anymore than its just threatened by Leopard 2A7Vs and whatever. Russia is not building only field newly built T-90Ms, but also relying heavily on upgraded T-72s and T-80s, and even older tanks. In terms of jets too, you need the most sophisticated models, but also some cheaper ones to fill out the numbers.

Mig35 with datalink to NEBO, Moskva and other such radar would do exactly what su35 is doing now

Fly in passive mode in some countries border, and shootdown enemy aircraft from within border or maybe in neighboring countries, adjacent secured airspace by SHORAD and long range AD

They'd be firing r77M and R37 and destroying targets which are nearby just like su35 does to Ukrainian airforce

The cost would be cheaper for doing exact same task, not only per plane, but per sortie as well

And you could have 2 mig 35, for each su35 performing these interception/CAP mission

Just datalink to your ground based air defense radar and you have a solid air supremacy platform

All the vids of su35 firing r77 at UKR su25 or mig 29 could easily be done by mig35

And your su35 can focus on other tasks like covering other borders which might need a longer ranged fighter,

While mig35 can handle a state which is nearby , but which border is not as big such as Ukraine in this instance

You need to reread what I said. If you need help I can provide it.

I'll give a hint - I'm saying power output is what matters, not so much the technological difference between the radar structure.

I'm certain that was obvious in my post.

Perhaps you don't understand... when you design stuff you do homework and you check things out... do you thing you just plug a USB cable into the USB sockets on the side of a jet engine and that is where the electrical power for everything comes from?

When they designed the unified upgrade of the MiG-29 that has become the MiG-29M/29KR/35 they would be using electrical generators attached to the jet engines to create an onboard power supply powerful enough to run everything they needed to run... including the AESA radars they were eventually going to get.

Ironically it is not all about power... the LPI modes the US aircraft are supposed to use use the least amount of power possible so they don't stand out like a huge target flying over the battlefield.

If it was only about power MiG could have stopped at the MiG-25.

No one there is advocating a long term acquisition of MiG-35 to be the main light fighter of VKS, only to produce it NOW until the Su-75 will be ready to mass production, once is done complete the last batch and switch the assembly line into it.

There is no evidence that Russia needs or wants an all stealth fighter fleet, so odds are they are probably not going to replace all Su-35s and Su-30s with Su-57s, and equally if they buy a useful number of MiG-35s there should be no reason to then replace them straight away with Su-75s or anything MiG might be making in parallel.

Numbers aircraft allow you the value of having a larger air fleet without the crippling cost of having a large fleet of heavy expensive planes.

I dont really get the dislike of the Mig-29, its a perfectly servicable fighter.
Smaller nations will definitly benefit from these small modern fighters

Not every aircraft has to fly thousands of kms to get to where it is needed... having airfields near what you want them to protect means they don't need a lot of range at all... things like major industrial centres or nuclear power stations or hydro electric dams you want to defend from enemy aircraft or standoff weapon or drone attack...

For longer range missions they have inflight refuelling probes.

Because countries are fielding 5th gen fighters in mass.

Who is?

The more F-35s HATO introduces the faster the end of HATO.

That mig-35 neither has a good radar to deal with them, nor the new missiles nor the rcs to not be detected at max range by enemy radars.

When a good radar is ready it can be introduced and all the problems solved. The MiG-35 can use any missile the Su-35 or Su-57 can use.

F-35 would pick it up on their radar from 250km away and new amraam and meteor would be launched from 200km away.

F-35s were picked up on the Iran Iraq border from Russia when they weren't using their own radars...

It won't even notice until it's too late and 2 or 3 missiles pop up on it RWR few seconds before a hit.

The MiG-35 has a full self defense EW suite...

Possibly it would be also time for a new engine in that power range or another improved version of the RD-33.

In the 1990s there was talk about an RD-45 upgrade of the RD-33 with 12 tons thrust for next gen light 5th gen twin engined fighters.

Also speaking of propaganda, western NGOs and intelligence assets (government and private) have focused on India and are working hard to peel away "dependence on Russian military equipment". Russia needs to go on the offensive to stop these tricks by western interests.

If India wants to invest in F-18s or F-35s then that is their choice and they will quickly see through the bullshit and realise their mistake...

especially if supercruise and higher electricity generation (to power new equipment) become important requirements.

Supercruise comes at a cost... the ability to supercruise changes the design of the engine and makes it less useful for other flight modes... and more takeoff power from the engines to power things has very little to do with the engines themselves...

I mean when looking at a jamming platform they had two competing designs... one was based on the Tu-22M3 and the other was based on the Il-76 and the Il-76 because it was possible to get more electrical takeoff power from the four 12 ton thrust engines than could be taken from two 25 ton thrust engines.

Suggests to me it has nothing to do with engine power.

If they want more workers, they should try raising the salaries. Their penny-pinching is a disgrace.

Core problem that leads to disaster...

Newer stuff does exist - the Su-75, but it's years away from production even if development and testing is rushed.

It is for export and there is no indication that the Russian AF is even interested.

It would need to prove to be successful before they give it a chance.

The MiG-35 is not just a smaller lighter Su-35 for use over shorter distances... it keeps radar and engine makers working as well so you actually get a real choice moving forward, but most importantly if you want an all Chuck Norris army it is going to be a very small army and Russia is a big country... it has its own production facilities and suppliers that are not doing a lot else.

When it comes to killing a bond villain then James Bond is needed, but for petty criminals and burglars and minor assaults or just keeping the public order then the MiG-35 has many of the traits of bond or rambo or norris, but is affordable and can be available in enormous numbers to be where you need them.

Not to say they don't need the Su-35s and Su-57s, but wingman drones can't replace lighter cheaper fighters...

A good example is an aircraft carrier... it was always expected to have Su-33s and MiG-29Ks on it because they compliment each other... when targets are first discovered then the range of the Su-33 and its weight of fuel means it can accelerate to high speed and fly out 1,000km to meet an enemy... aircraft or missile... thin their numbers and then fly back monitoring the leakers, but while they are on their way out you prep more planes to launch and assist but in the 10 minutes it will take to fuel and arm them the battle will now be at 600km or less so the next wave of aircraft don't need to be big planes... they can be smaller lighter cheaper planes that allow you to sail around with more planes... The point is that big planes and small planes compliment each other...

And the irony is that what killed the MiG-29K was that it was a sophisticated modern multirole fighter based on the MiG-29M of the time... the small fighter cost the same as the big fighter so they just bought the big fighters and saved on spare parts storage space, though it did mean they had to have the Su-25s for jet trainers so they had to have different parts and different jet engines anyway.

I dont think they are paying less for the engineers.  Actually on the other hand, people are getting paid more than ever now in these fields.  But I could be completely wrong on Sokol Plant itself.  I would wager a lot of the problems are resolved or being close to resolved since both Mikoyan and Sukhoi are under same umbrella now.

I am generally curious what they plan for the MiG-35's that is planned then?

The only ones bought and used is the ones for Swift.  So ones actually used for mil use, I am wondering if we will get surprised like T-72 and T-90 updates with the SMO.

I can only hope.

But my main concern still stands - the power needed to provide for the components like the radar in order for it to be effective.

Then again, maybe they wont exactly be in Ukraine but used to work with AWAC's on border use.

Edit:  I don't really take India's experience to heart simply because they are known for rather poor maintenance.  But a lot of the failures were attributed to the fly by wire system.  I am unsure if it is Russian FBW or foreign ones integrated for the customer.  Knowing India.....

Algeria's distaste for the MiG-29's and demanding Su-30's I think was simply buyers remorse and wanting to use excuse to get a superior jet for cost of the MiG-29.  It worked (Kinda) and Russia ended up re purposing those MiG-29's for its own needs.

@Roman

Power output needed to feed the radar, and Radar's ability to use the power for its use.

As I explained in the distant past on this forums, you can have a Radar like lets say N036 and then you can compare it to Irbis-E which is its PESA relative. Both are similar in size but 1 has 2 Transmitter/receiver and the other has 1500 or so small ones. In the end, both draw 20KW of power. Hence why in the end, both have same detection range - Su-57 can detect the opponent same distance as Su-35. You could lets say replace the GaAS modules on the N036 (honestly, we have no real knowledge as to which ones Russia is using since they were experimenting with 15-20W Quad pack GaAS modules about a decade+ ago, and then introduced 30W GaN modules apparently used on Polemont Redut radar) with GaN modules 30W and you would still get the same output. Reason being is that it is still limited on how much power you can push through from the generator. It just means that the modules are capable of handling up much higher power output and may not be problematic to cooling compared to the GaAS modules.

There is far more to it and there is only so much I understand as I am not an engineer in the field (someone close to me is though and kinda explained it to me). But in the end, the MiG-35's need to be able to push the power to the radar and the radar able to use it. Maybe with the current success in the technology used for the Sukhois, it can be translated to the MiG-35. I guess only time will tell.

@FP

If they want more workers, they should try raising the salaries. Their penny-pinching is a disgrace.

We're singing same tune.

One of the things that is working against MiG-29 and its heirs is complete absence in any SMO footage. Both, MoD and volunteers are dumping massive amounts of material every day and we didn't see, even once MiG-29SMT in them ( I mention SMT as is it most advanced version of the plane in RuAF). Also it's been 4 years since MoD received first serial MiG-35s. And they had something like 4 pre-series model and received another 4 by beginning of 2021. Still, there's literally zero mention of the plane. Maybe, they're not happy with real -world performance. Or, if you are into conspiracy theories, Sukhoi's lobbying is too strong.

Or, if you are into conspiracy theories, Sukhoi's lobbying is too strong.

Sukhoi and MiG are basically the same company now, relegated to separate design bureaus.

I am generally curious what they plan for the MiG-35's that is planned then?

OAK and MiGs plans don't matter... they make the product to the specs of the customer or they make their own designs and go out and find customers or both, but the amount of product variation they can make is limited... a single engined fighter would need to be funded and MiG have a long history with single engined fighters, but the Russian military has been demanding twin engined fighters the last 40 odd years.

The Russian AF plans... well they could change overnight... someone might have decided not to buy lots of MiG-35s because it is out of date... ironic when the US is putting their F-15s and F-16s back into production because they get the job done at a fraction of the price the new stealthy alternatives they have can be had for.... but then they sabotaged themselves so no feeling sorry for those idiots.

The fact that the Checkmate has been revealed this early in its development... remember we didn't see the Su-57 till its first flight, suggests they want foreign customers to buy into the project which if they can meet their goals and price targets should be an amazing aircraft and sell on the export market like hotcakes, but they say themselves that it is not a Russian Air Force funded project which means now that the Su-57 is in serial production they promised funding for the light 5th gen fighter which MiG was tasked to make, but of course that will remain secret.

Now the purpose of a light fighter is not to be smaller or physically lighter, but to be cheaper... cheaper to buy and cheaper to operate so it can be bought in sufficient numbers to have a much bigger effect than its specs would normally reflect.

They could go for a LIFT sized stealth aircraft able to carry perhaps four weapons internally and when stealth is not longer an issue perhaps another five or six weapons externally giving a total of perhaps 9 weapons like the Checkmate and the MiG-35.

When stealth is critical then two anti radiation missiles and perhaps two self defence AAMs is all it will need and it can work to degrade the enemy air defence with those weapons until it is safe to operate in unstealthy mode where it can use external weapons and standoff weapons to defeat the enemy.

Now MiG has shown a model of its light single engined land based fighter, and also its twin engined light carrier based fighter... either of which could be used as a land based light fighter... to be clear size and weight are not important as long as the aircraft is cheap to buy and cheap to operate.

They might decide that stealth is meaningless for the cheap numbers plane in which case a MiG-35 fighting HATOs F-16s and F-15s will be fine while the Su-35 and Su-30 and Su-57s sweep the floor with HATOs few remaining F-22s and F-35s.

The point is that the MiG-35 is cheaper to buy and to operate and is a modern aircraft able to use modern missiles and communicate with the IADS and share information... claiming it is not stealthy and therefore would be dogmeat to F-35s assumes it is working on its own and has only its own radar to use to find targets... which is rather unlikely.

Su-35s can find targets for other platforms to attack, as can A-100s and ground based radar, and they have a modern IRST that can probably detect the F-35 at 80km anyway.

But my main concern still stands - the power needed to provide for the components like the radar in order for it to be effective.

Where did that concern come from exactly... was it western experts perhaps?

Are you worried about all the one armed Russian tank crew members too?

If they need more power they could hook up more than one generator to each engine.... the MiG-25 had quite a lot of electrical demands regarding its radar... but what would they know about making fighter aircraft... experts on the internet are obviously better placed to call them on their mistakes.

Algeria's distaste for the MiG-29's and demanding Su-30's I think was simply buyers remorse and wanting to use excuse to get a superior jet for cost of the MiG-29.

What story did you hear? My understanding is that Algeria assumed they were getting brand new airframes, and they got airframes from a factory that had sat around for a bit but were still zero hour in terms of flight hours... they got really pissy about it and when Sukhoi offered Su-30s for the same price they were offered the MiGs for... of course every man and his dog knows it was a MiG-29SMT purchase and no MiG-29SMT aircraft have every been newbuilds... it is an upgrade standard... they took the Sukhois.

Most of the MiG-29s they operate were bargain basement models from Ukraine and Belarus.

So they missed out on finding out how much cheaper their MiG-29SMTs would have been to operate compared with their existing MiG-29s and even more so compared with the Flankers... so they actually shot themselves in the foot...

Both are similar in size but 1 has 2 Transmitter/receiver and the other has 1500 or so small ones. In the end, both draw 20KW of power. Hence why in the end, both have same detection range

So computer processing power means nothing at all... and of course the size of the antenna does not improve precision and accuracy?

When you point a torch out at night into an open field and someone is standing there with a full length mirror in their hands turned 45 degrees from your position so shining your torch directly at them deflects the light away at a 45 degree angle... do you really think the solution is a more powerful brighter torch?

Or do you think the wing mounted L band radar is needed to spot the target?

NEBO uses three different radar frequencies working together with computer processing power reducing the weaknesses of each frequency range and boosting the advantages of each frequency range to get better performance than could be achieved with any or all three radar on their own... do you think adding the performance of an IRST optical system would further increase its capabilities?

Do you think perhaps a 5th gen fighter like the Su-57 might have such technology too... and being in service in growing numbers perhaps the Su-35 and Su-30 might get such technology as well?

Would such technology also be used on a new light fighter as well?

Lots of questions we don't know the answers too... but the MiG-35 is just a MiG-29 from 1982.

There is far more to it and there is only so much I understand as I am not an engineer in the field (someone close to me is though and kinda explained it to me). But in the end, the MiG-35's need to be able to push the power to the radar and the radar able to use it. Maybe with the current success in the technology used for the Sukhois, it can be translated to the MiG-35. I guess only time will tell.

MiG was using PESA radars before the west even thought of AESA radars let alone had them in aircraft, do you think the first gen AESA radars are going to be cheap or even that much better than the much cheaper existing types?

You talk about the thousands of elements in an AESA compared with a PESA but you ignore the fact that a PESA has electronic steering which is a critical advantage of AESA radars over other types and the most important most of the time. What you also don't mention is the cost of each transmit receive module and that a PESA has one of each while an AESA needs over 1,000... it is essentially thousands of radars... and if you are tracking lots of things then each of those elements needs its own power feed... how long could it track four targets with 20W beams each?

Scanning for a stealthy target would need the highest power beam but normally the radar scans by activating a vertical row of elements at a time... that might be 50 to 100 elements... 20W per element? I doubt it...

But if you can only energise one element at a time at 20W then how do you find the target in the first place...

And blazing 20W per AESA element in each scan to find stealthy targets is going to tell everyone in town where you are...

One of the things that is working against MiG-29 and its heirs is complete absence in any SMO footage. Both, MoD and volunteers are dumping massive amounts of material every day and we didn't see, even once MiG-29SMT in them ( I mention SMT as is it most advanced version of the plane in RuAF). Also it's been 4 years since MoD received first serial MiG-35s. And they had something like 4 pre-series model and received another 4 by beginning of 2021. Still, there's literally zero mention of the plane. Maybe, they're not happy with real -world performance. Or, if you are into conspiracy theories, Sukhoi's lobbying is too strong.

A couple of comments about that... first of all SMO footage released as commercial sales material makes sense for aircraft you are trying to sell on the international market... so Su-57 and Su-35 and Su-30 with upgrades makes sense... the MiG-29SMT to a lessor extent because they are trying to sell the MiG-29M/29KR/35 family now, but they are in low rate serial production... would the Russian AF be swayed by infomercials or by the actual combat results... having MiG-29SMTs near the border operating reliably and affordably doing a similar job to the heavier types with less fuel and lower costs and demands on airfields (ie operating from motorways easily and efficiently.)

Second a strong Sukhoi lobby is what OAK was designed to prevent, no matter how patriotic a company is, when it has no competition it can cut corners and get fat and lazy.

The light fighter in their fighter mix does not need extreme payloads or exceptional range, what it needs is low cost operations and modern radar and modern missiles and decent self defence equipment.

If an AESA radar takes 5 years to perfect that is fine... when it is ready it can be introduced to existing aircraft and delivered new on new aircraft... if you don't buy anything and wait for a decent radar you will lack numbers of aircraft and end up with no aircraft for 5 years which is actually the only thing worse than a bad aircraft.

All new aircraft have problems and teething troubles... put them into service and find and fix their problems and you end up with something that can do the job.

The problem is when you are in denial and pretend your light fighter has to be better than your heavy fighter in every regard like the F-35 and you end up with something that is way to expensive for what it was supposed to be... ie an affordable numbers aircraft.

Now the F-22 is going to be scrapped, the super expensive F-35 is going to be the F-22 where most features don't work yet and might never work, and the cheap numbers fighters will be F-15s and F-16s put back into production.

In comparison the Russians have many more choices... in fact are spoiled for choices and the choices keep coming because the Checkmate will have a MiG equivalent and they can continue to use the MiG-35 if they want for a light fighter so they will have a choice of probably four aircraft (three MiGs... MiG-35, Single and twin engined 5th gen light fighters, and Checkmate from Sukhoi...)

FP wrote:If they want more workers, they should try raising the salaries. Their penny-pinching is a disgrace.

The number of other companies that will be looking for engineers everyone is going to have to start offering more.

The core problem in the west is that saving money through reducing salaries was the easiest option, with the result of taking money from the people in the company actually generating the product and generating revenue so they can give money to the investors who just suck money out of the company.

The west is broken because big business values investment more than it values the hard work its workers put in to provide the services or products it produces.

Both are similar in size but 1 has 2 Transmitter/receiver and the other has 1500 or so small ones. In the end, both draw 20KW of power. Hence why in the end, both have same detection range wrote:

NO,NO,NO!!!!!

One has TWO RW GENERATORS but being an HYBRID PESA radar has the same number of emitter/receivers of an AESA of the same size.
Only difference is that it has not an independent RW GENERATOR for each of those emitter/receivers so it cannot split its own radio emission in more than two radar beams, a little loss in radiating power (but more than compensated by the major emitting power of larger RW generators due to more efficient refrigeration) a little more sidelobe loss (same of above) and a minor efficiency in LPI mode (this cannot be know precisely due the sensitive nature of such information but it should not be enormous as emission frequency could vary hundreds of time in a second).

same shit again and again...
I don't think we should expect anything radical because military aviation is not and should not be the primacy of the Russian Armed Forces.
I would rather build thousands of "zircons" and "kinzhals" (The Russians already have plans for land-based variants of hypersonic weapons), which I can hide when I produce them, than build a bunch of sitting ducks (planes) at airports.
I don't see the point of farting so much about airplanes in the age of hypersonic weapons.
The way of warfare progresses and does not stand still, and as far as I can see, the West (the USA) is trying to catch up with the Russians in terms of hypersonic weapons, which indicates that it is precisely in this respect that there is now an arms race in the world.
The vulnerability of aviation at airports is more than obvious, but many persistently forget it and they don't want to accept it, so they still mistakenly think that it is not the same case with Western planes - but it is.

The Su-57 was and will be the flagship of the Russian Air Force and should remain so. It is a plane that will cover the vast expanses of the Russian Federation far more easily. This is precisely what an aircraft like the Su-75 or the F-35 cannot do in Russia.
All other platforms are secondary and their development is ongoing. I think the two most important platforms of the Russian Air Force right now are the Su-57 and the Il-76MD-90A, as well as sub-variants of that transport aircraft.

My personal opinion is that Russia does not need all these platforms; Su-57, Su-75, S-70 Okhotnik, PAK-DP and PAK-DA. It is better to direct the money to the land army and the navy than to produce a hundred copies (more or less) for each of the above mentioned aircraft types except PAK-DA. The PAK-DA is the project that I would abandon, and the reason for that is the hypersonic weapons, so I would produce a modern version of the Tu-160, because both American and Chinese future strategic bombers will use standoff missiles exclusively.
Strategic bombers are like aircraft carriers, they are more a matter of prestige..
What happened at "Engels" airport is exactly why I believe that aviation is on a safe path to obsolescence, but hey - it's hard to change people's awareness that tectonic shifts in the development of warfare occur from time to time.

Regarding the message form Caveat Emptor about the absence of the MiG-29SMT in the current operations.

AFAIK the MiG-29 is nowadays only used in training- testing units and of course Team Strishi at Kubinka with 12 x MiG-29S and 6x MiG-29UB and not in combat units . The other three units should have the following; 4020 BRS should have 24x MiG-29 (sub-type, model unknown by me) for training (foreign pilots and crew) at Lipetsk, and 116 TsBPIA at Astrakhan should have 5x model 9.13,14 x model 9.17(SMT), ? x model 9.17R, 6x model 9.51, ?x model 9.53R and 2x model 9.51T and 267 TTP an unknown number of MiG-29 (sub-type, model unknown by me). Of course, this is the info I have.

What happened at "Engels" airport is exactly why I believe that aviation is on a safe path to obsolescence, but hey - it's hard to change people's awareness that tectonic shifts in the development of warfare occur from time to time.

Ironic when maybe 10  flights of MiG-31Ks armed with Kinzhals and inflight refuelling probes could protect most of Russia better than any attack sub or conventional submarine... based around the country they could be sinking any enemy ships approaching Russian waters much faster than any naval platform or tank or ground artillery piece.

Thinking you will save money by stopping spending on specific things is just ignorant childish nonsense.

Maybe Russia should fire all those useless managers that plan everything too and just have rifle armed foot soldiers... so much more efficient...

The point of having lighter fighters is sound... not every situation requires the best and most expensive and most powerful platform and when such a platform is needed then send out your Su-35s and Su-57s, but when it is not that complex then MiG-35s can do the job cheaper and easier and in the future checkmates or MiG-LFMSs can do that job instead.

When I say the idea is ignorant and childish I don't want to offend you, but an electrician that only has one screwdriver and no other tools is not going to be a good electrician.

No one starts a game of chess by taking off all their pieces except the pawns because it is easier to play that way.

If you ran a delivery company and you only deliver fast food you might consider only having motorbikes, but if your business is to deliver anything to anywhere then you are going to need a variety of vehicles in terms of size and weight capacities to make sure you can handle any job.

The Russian military has to deal with any potential problem and having 5th gen fighters in production makes them more flexible and more powerful than if they just invested in the things that were useful the last time they went to war.

When the only tool you have is a hammer then treating every problem like it is a nail is just stupid even if it is logical.

What it actually means is that you are useless for dealing with any problems that are not nail related... get some more tools.