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So logically I would expect Gorets-O to be Armata based... do you agree?
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Russian Ground Forces: News #2
GarryB- Posts : 40553
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Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
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GarryB wrote:So logically I would expect Gorets-O to be Armata based... do you agree?
If the term "Armata-based" is a reference to a machine of the same generation as T-14 and T-15, then I agree, but T-14 and T-15 have very little in common, and if you add to that the fact that Gorets-O is claimed to be amphibious, then saying that Gorets-O is Armata-based is, I think, merely a matter of semantics.
However, a T-14 based system with flotation aides might be a possibility; the amphibious bit being an error is another possibility.
Also the amphibious vehicle may involve a mix-up with amphibious engineering vehicles based on, let's say, Kurganets chassis.
Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Sun May 03, 2015 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
flamming_python- Posts : 9552
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The UAZ Patriot.
The running joke back in the day was that 'you'd have to be a patriot to buy one'
But there have been many iterations since its original introduction and it seems to be a robust, reliable vehicle these days.
Here is the Pickup variant used by the FSB Border Guards
There are apparently special surviellance versions in service with the Border Guards too; you can read about them here, along with a similar version they pitched to the Navy.
http://bastion-karpenko.ru/patriot-okapi-n/
Here is one of them; the Patriot-Okapi
Here is a special Patriot Sport variant for the police (MVD). I'm not sure if this variant is in service
Here is a very similar variant in use by the police for sure, as a patrol vehicle for urban and rural localities; replacing the Soviet-era UAZ-3135.
An armoured variant (Tarantul-19312); either this and/or the other armoured variant (Esaul 2945) is used by the police AFAIK
A rescue vehicle variant displayed at an exhibition 2 years ago.
A broadly similar UAZ Patriot variant is used by Russian EMERCOM; perhaps replacing an earlier model based upon the AvtoVAZ Niva chassis.
Here is a UAZ Patriot variant used by Russian military road inspection; looks like an older variant
There is also a variant that has been started to be acquired by the army this year; relacing the UAZ-3135. Apparently it is based off the latest civilian models, but with automatic transmission and likely some other modifications.
Looking at the following photo, it looks like there is actually a whole set of them; ranging from a 2-seat cargo version, to what looks like a 5-seater technical with a RPK-74 in the back, to the standard 5-seater, and finally the 9-seat modification of the standard 5-seater (using folding chairs).
Presumably they will be used as general-purpose transportation vehicles, mainly for officers and such, and as light utility vehicles.
And finally; the LDM-2R variant, here hauling a whole rail wagon
The running joke back in the day was that 'you'd have to be a patriot to buy one'
But there have been many iterations since its original introduction and it seems to be a robust, reliable vehicle these days.
Here is the Pickup variant used by the FSB Border Guards
There are apparently special surviellance versions in service with the Border Guards too; you can read about them here, along with a similar version they pitched to the Navy.
http://bastion-karpenko.ru/patriot-okapi-n/
Here is one of them; the Patriot-Okapi
Here is a special Patriot Sport variant for the police (MVD). I'm not sure if this variant is in service
Here is a very similar variant in use by the police for sure, as a patrol vehicle for urban and rural localities; replacing the Soviet-era UAZ-3135.
An armoured variant (Tarantul-19312); either this and/or the other armoured variant (Esaul 2945) is used by the police AFAIK
A rescue vehicle variant displayed at an exhibition 2 years ago.
A broadly similar UAZ Patriot variant is used by Russian EMERCOM; perhaps replacing an earlier model based upon the AvtoVAZ Niva chassis.
Here is a UAZ Patriot variant used by Russian military road inspection; looks like an older variant
There is also a variant that has been started to be acquired by the army this year; relacing the UAZ-3135. Apparently it is based off the latest civilian models, but with automatic transmission and likely some other modifications.
Looking at the following photo, it looks like there is actually a whole set of them; ranging from a 2-seat cargo version, to what looks like a 5-seater technical with a RPK-74 in the back, to the standard 5-seater, and finally the 9-seat modification of the standard 5-seater (using folding chairs).
Presumably they will be used as general-purpose transportation vehicles, mainly for officers and such, and as light utility vehicles.
And finally; the LDM-2R variant, here hauling a whole rail wagon
flamming_python- Posts : 9552
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GarryB wrote:So logically I would expect Gorets-O to be Armata based... do you agree?
Sounds like you're having doubts, GarryB
Actually I'm noticing that a whole load of new vehicles are entering service or will soon be - that aren't based on Typhoons/Bumerangs/Kurganets/Armatas.
collegeboy16- Posts : 1135
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it did say the thing is a vehicle family- only way i think a family relation between such vehicles would be sharing the engineering role across different weight classes.
the bits about amphibious capability and leading the vanguard ahead of T-14 and T-15 are probably poor phrasing. havent heard or seen anything with tank level frontal protection that could swim.
new vehicles entering service on not a/k/b/t chassis arent indicative that they are not sticking to vehicle families in the new divisions and brigades.
they probably are ready with the mission - specific equipment/ modules and dont want to waste time waiting for the new chassis and instead begin testing now. later theyll just place them on new chassis. for the heavy vehicles i think there wont be much fuss if they do things this way. the problem will be with the lighter ones, but considering they arent as far ahead with them as with armatas (2 armatas vs 1 of each of kurganets and boomerang, no typhoon at all), they still have time to deal with tailoring those for the lighter builds.
just my 2c.
the bits about amphibious capability and leading the vanguard ahead of T-14 and T-15 are probably poor phrasing. havent heard or seen anything with tank level frontal protection that could swim.
new vehicles entering service on not a/k/b/t chassis arent indicative that they are not sticking to vehicle families in the new divisions and brigades.
they probably are ready with the mission - specific equipment/ modules and dont want to waste time waiting for the new chassis and instead begin testing now. later theyll just place them on new chassis. for the heavy vehicles i think there wont be much fuss if they do things this way. the problem will be with the lighter ones, but considering they arent as far ahead with them as with armatas (2 armatas vs 1 of each of kurganets and boomerang, no typhoon at all), they still have time to deal with tailoring those for the lighter builds.
just my 2c.
TheArmenian- Posts : 1880
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The Armenian Army (special forces) uses the pickup and cargo versions of the UAZ Patriot.
We modified the front bumpers for better offroading capabilities.
We modified the front bumpers for better offroading capabilities.
Cyberspec- Posts : 2904
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Well it's got 7 wheels so it's likely based on the Armata or Kurganets
sheytanelkebir- Posts : 536
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how mechanically reliable is the patriot? is it up to toyota landcruiser standard?
flamming_python- Posts : 9552
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sheytanelkebir wrote:how mechanically reliable is the patriot? is it up to toyota landcruiser standard?
No idea, but I doubt anything would be as good as a Toyota Landcruiser.
GarryB- Posts : 40553
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Sounds like you're having doubts, GarryB Twisted Evil
Actually I'm noticing that a whole load of new vehicles are entering service or will soon be - that aren't based on Typhoons/Bumerangs/Kurganets/Armatas.
There will be vehicles that operate outside of the brigade structure and so don't need to be based on a specific family...
Of course claims of amphibious capability might just be confusing floating with being able to operate in water... there were several tank based engineer vehicles that could operate underwater to find shallow water and places suitable for entry and exit on rivers and lakes...
Also the amphibious vehicle may involve a mix-up with amphibious engineering vehicles based on, let's say, Kurganets chassis.
Or they mean amphibious in terms of operating on land and in water so a snorkeling vehicle is amphibious, just like a floating vehicle is.
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
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Also the amphibious vehicle may involve a mix-up with amphibious engineering vehicles based on, let's say, Kurganets chassis.
Or they mean amphibious in terms of operating on land and in water so a snorkeling vehicle is amphibious, just like a floating vehicle is.
That's true. Even though, traditionally the term amphibious vehicle has been used to refer to those vehicles capable of water surface propulsion, but in this case, the message could have gotten lost during the translation.
Also I am sure that both T-14 and T-15 should be capable of snorkeling, but where is the snorkel? Where is it stowed? They have just removed it for the parade/practice?
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2S17, Nova-SV
GarryB- Posts : 40553
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Also I am sure that both T-14 and T-15 should be capable of snorkeling, but where is the snorkel? Where is it stowed? They have just removed it for the parade/practice?
they are not shown with Nakidka either... doesn't mean they wont have that.
A snorkel will likely fit on the rear hull or rear turret depending on the model....
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GarryB wrote:
Also I am sure that both T-14 and T-15 should be capable of snorkeling, but where is the snorkel? Where is it stowed? They have just removed it for the parade/practice?
they are not shown with Nakidka either... doesn't mean they wont have that.
A snorkel will likely fit on the rear hull or rear turret depending on the model....
My intention was to say that I actually think that both T-14 and T-15 are capable of snorkeling. I wasn't trying to be cynical, of course.
Pretty much all Russian tanks, BMPs, and BTRs are required to be either amphibious or be able to snorkel.
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Agreed... there were no vehicles with mine rollers or mine plows either, but that doesn't mean all the Armata and Kurganets and boomerang and Typhoon vehicles can't be fitted with such things...
Vympel- Posts : 147
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The snorkel? Its right there stowed underneath of the rear of the turret. I thought it quite obvious.
http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/May-4th-rehearsal-of-2015/i-W37Xkbd/0/O/4mayrehearsal_09.jpg
http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/May-4th-rehearsal-of-2015/i-W37Xkbd/0/O/4mayrehearsal_09.jpg
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Well, I for one hadn't noticed it so far....good catch 
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Vympel wrote:The snorkel? Its right there stowed underneath of the rear of the turret. I thought it quite obvious.
http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/May-4th-rehearsal-of-2015/i-W37Xkbd/0/O/4mayrehearsal_09.jpg
I saw it after having written my post; however, I have yet to examine T-15 images for its snorkel. Have you found it?
GarryB- Posts : 40553
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The snorkel? Its right there stowed underneath of the rear of the turret. I thought it quite obvious.
Funny how you can look at something trying to find other things like APS and DIRCMs and not notice the basic stuff.
Are my eyes deceiving me or at the very rear of the turret bustle are they individual track links seen through a mesh screen?
If so I wonder what the purpose of the mesh screen is?
Stealth?
Morpheus Eberhardt- Posts : 1925
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Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Vympel wrote:The snorkel? Its right there stowed underneath of the rear of the turret. I thought it quite obvious.
http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/May-4th-rehearsal-of-2015/i-W37Xkbd/0/O/4mayrehearsal_09.jpg
I saw it after having written my post; however, I have yet to examine T-15 images for its snorkel. Have you found it?
Is T-15's snorkel carried inside?
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Russian Defense Ministry orders several hundred combat vehicles — manufacturer
MOSCOW, May 12. /TASS/. The Russian Defense Ministry and the Tractor Plants concern have signed a contract for the supply of several dozen mechanized infantry combat vehicles BMP-3, the concern’s vice-president and co-owner, Albert Bakov, has told TASS.
"We have concluded a three-year contract with the Defense Ministry for supplying hundreds of BMP-3," he said.
In the process of the BMP-s serial production the vehicle’s design underwent 1,500 amendments.
Bakov said that Kurganmashzavod, an affiliate of the Tractor Plants, said would continue providing BMP-3 until the completion of research and development of the Kurganets-25 platform and the beginning of the serial production of a new generation of combat vehicles on its basis.
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Austin wrote:Russian Defense Ministry orders several hundred combat vehicles — manufacturer
Big news
Vympel- Posts : 147
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Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:Vympel wrote:The snorkel? Its right there stowed underneath of the rear of the turret. I thought it quite obvious.
http://77rus.smugmug.com/Military/May-4th-rehearsal-of-2015/i-W37Xkbd/0/O/4mayrehearsal_09.jpg
I saw it after having written my post; however, I have yet to examine T-15 images for its snorkel. Have you found it?
Nah - its nowhere visible. Perhaps stored in the troop compartment?
GarryB- Posts : 40553
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Nah - its nowhere visible. Perhaps stored in the troop compartment?
Well... two options.... it is a from scratch design and they knew they would be crossing rivers so a fully retractable design is possible, and a fully removable design they chose not to carry in this instance is another option.
Of course only the Armata vehicle would need the snorkel as the lighter vehicles will be fully amphibious so carrying a snorkel will be unique to armata vehicles and their turrets... the MBT turret on the lighter vehicles wont require that snorkel so I wonder what it might carry there?
No obvious mine clearing devices like this:
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GarryB wrote:Nah - its nowhere visible. Perhaps stored in the troop compartment?
Well... two options.... it is a from scratch design and they knew they would be crossing rivers so a fully retractable design is possible, and a fully removable design they chose not to carry in this instance is another option.
Of course only the Armata vehicle would need the snorkel as the lighter vehicles will be fully amphibious so carrying a snorkel will be unique to armata vehicles and their turrets... the MBT turret on the lighter vehicles wont require that snorkel so I wonder what it might carry there?
No obvious mine clearing devices like this:
