Russian Economy General News: #10

Apple is a POS company making POS products. Look it up on youtube. Russian "knockoffs" (what a BS term, one such "knockoff" was the first two faced screen smartphone produced with one of the sides having digital paper) are not worse than Apple. Apple has hordes of lemmings who think that pisswater falling on their eyes is heavenly dew. Don't judge Russia by mass consumer lemming psychology.

PhSt wrote:

if they for any sanction's reaso woudl stop cooperating with Russia we got problems with displays, fridges, smartphones...

is it not possible for Russia to just obtain the technologies from these companies and set up their own brands using these tech? Russia is a manufacturing powerhouse, they have all the raw material resources and machine building capacity to build a wide variety of products. I am positive that if they actually make serious efforts they can make a couple of successful Russian brands in the world market. I think Russia just needs to improve the way they advertise/sell their products to consumers.

Russia already has the technology to make this consumer garbage. It does not have the sweatshop labor pool to be competitive in making it and selling to the rest of the world.

It is pure hubris and megalomaniac superiority complex in NATO that gives it the idea that it can sanction Russia's economy into oblivion.
As we have seen since 2014, sanctions have been a systematic positive stimulus on Russia's GDP growth. The harder they tighten the screws the more import substitution emerges. One of the problems for Russian technology security has been that it can buy cheaper
equipment from abroad. It is impossible for companies to break into markets with very high start up costs and large economies of scale
working in favor of the established market leaders. Sanctions have allowed Russian companies to enter markets they were squeezed out
of before. If NATO wants to cut off Russia from IC manufacturing, that will result in Russian companies finally getting high resolution
lithography and large diameter silicon wafer processing equipment to market. Unlike the 1980s, there is a developed commercialization
infrastructure in Russia today. It is lucrative to fill demand gaps and there is no GosPlan to f*ck everything up.

kvs wrote:Apple is a POS company making POS products.  Look it up on youtube.   Russian "knockoffs" (what a BS term, one such "knockoff" was the first two faced screen smartphone produced with one of the sides having digital paper) are not worse than Apple.  Apple has hordes of lemmings who think that pisswater falling on their eyes is heavenly dew.   Don't judge Russia by mass consumer lemming psychology.  

Never said knockoffs were bad. On contrary, the iPhone knockoffs from China operated better than my iPhone 3G that I had way back when. The yotaphone you are referring to and it's a shame Rostec sold off majority shares to a Chinese company so all production of it left Russia. But they still assemble other smartphones that are cheaper and carry all the bells and whistles.

As for what gunship said, it does have some merit. Russia lacks the marketing direction that west has this the sheep in Russia rush to buy garbage like iPhones over much cheaper alternatives that tend to run better.

kvs wrote:Apple is a POS company making POS products.  Look it up on youtube.   Russian "knockoffs" (what a BS term, one such "knockoff" was the first two faced screen smartphone produced with one of the sides having digital paper) are not worse than Apple.  Apple has hordes of lemmings who think that pisswater falling on their eyes is heavenly dew.   Don't judge Russia by mass consumer lemming psychology.  

But, but....Apple gave us the $1,000 monitor stand:

Actually YotaPhone was never produced in Russia. They had offices in both Russia and later also opened one in Finland; with both I think actually handling the design and features and so on.

Production though was in Singapore first, and then I believe in China later on. But never in Russia.

Now the company is bankrupt over debts and lawsuits and its technologies, patents have been sold of to a Chinese phone company. Russian and Finnish offices have been closed down and everybody sacked. The end

Personally I always though the concept was cool but that their devices were underpowered for my needs.

On the plus side there are other Russian consumer and B2B brands which are growing quite nicely with exports and unlike Yota Devices, have been keeping in the green.
POZIS (fridges, specialist refrigeration equipment), Promobot (customer service robots), Rostselmash (combine harvesters, tractors), Russian Mechanics (snowmobiles), Shvabe (cameras, telescopes, lenses, electronic parts, medical equipment), ABBYY (OCR software), 1C (games, business enterprise software), Unikonf (chocolates, candies), UAZ (off-road vehicles), KAMAZ (trucks), Yandex (Russia's Google), Russian Standard (vodka, other alchoholic beverages), etc...

It is sad to hear about Yota's failure. That Yota did not manufacture in Russia is to be expected. Apple does not manufacture in the USA and leverages the Chinese sweatshop. Maybe Trump's theatrics will force Apple to manufacture something in the USA, but that will cut into its profits.

I suspect that the patent lawsuits are frivolous and dirty pool by western companies and western-wannabe companies. Corporations use
patents to manipulate market share and undermine their competitors and extort technology IP from them. RAMBUS was notorious for using the
ridiculous US Patent Office to extort money from SDRAM manufacturers. They would file blank patents (they had 3 years to fill them) and
sit on JEDEC open committee meetings that defined SDRAM specs. RAMBUS would then file the specs in their blank patents. After that they
would sue all the JEDEC members companies for "royalties".

A more benign example is the Intel and AMD transfer of IP that allowed AMD to compete with Intel. I do not think Intel gave AMD its IP
out of charity. AMD was successful in using some agreement to get their hands on Intel's patents.

Yota clearly had market leading ideas. So it was destroyed to feed the entrenched vultures. The ones stealing IP are the clowns
using the lawyers.

kvs wrote:It is sad to hear about Yota's failure.  That Yota did not manufacture in Russia is to be expected.  Apple does not manufacture in the USA and leverages the Chinese sweatshop.  Maybe Trump's theatrics will force Apple to manufacture something in the USA, but that will cut into its profits.

I suspect that the patent lawsuits are frivolous and dirty pool by western companies and western-wannabe companies.  Corporations use
patents to manipulate market share and undermine their competitors and extort technology IP from them.   RAMBUS was notorious for using the
ridiculous US Patent Office to extort money from SDRAM manufacturers.  They would file blank patents (they had 3 years to fill them) and
sit on JEDEC open committee meetings that defined SDRAM specs.   RAMBUS would then file the specs in their blank patents.  After that they
would sue all the JEDEC members companies for "royalties".  

A more benign example is the Intel and AMD transfer of IP that allowed AMD to compete with Intel.  I do not think Intel gave AMD its IP
out of charity.   AMD was successful in using some agreement to get their hands on Intel's patents.  

Yota clearly had market leading ideas.   So it was destroyed to feed the entrenched vultures.   The ones stealing IP are the clowns
using the lawyers.  

Yeah the patent lawsuits are dirty tactics that big corporations use against small corporations, but it's only really effective when the big guys pick on the small guys, it doesn't work if they're of comparable size. Back in 2017 Apple tried that tactic against Samsung, but failed miserably because Samsung had the money, status and power to fight them in court. BTW how do you like Apple's latest $1,000 paperweight monitor stand?

Apple is the definition of overpriced boutique junk. It markets to yuppies and yuppy wannabes buy the overpriced junk thinking they
are the shizzle. The monitor stand is pure intellectual insult. At least make it out of platinum or have it do house cleaning.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

kvs wrote:

Your answer is a cliche that means basically nothing in 2019.   If you were talking about the 1980s then there would be some merit.  Things today are vastly different than in the 1980s.   Technology is successfully commercialized in Russia.  

name then top 3 Russian hi tech brands recognized in Russia? and in the world? there is poos scalability of startups in Russia due to financial market depth (not sure about regulations), credit rates and structure of economy. Not that this is not changing but currently ti is like that.


Talking about mentality of decision makers:

https://vz.ru/news/2019/7/4/985644.html

Skvortsova asked to buy the Falcon Ministry of Health instead of SSJ-100

It is noted that the Falcon 7X is made by Dassault Aviation, the maximum number of passengers is 19 people, the flight range is up to 11 thousand kilometers, the cruising speed is 904 km / h. In this case, the SSJ-100 in the basic layout: the maximum number of passengers is 108, the flight range is up to 4.5 thousand kilometers, the cruising speed is 830 km / h.

so actually she wants to use small business jet to carry whom?  

While similar in size, a regional jet and a ultra long range business jet have quite different scopes and spec.

I though Russia was developing a business jet based on the SSJ100.

Anyway, as long as they're offered capable products, and nobody is exploiting the system by funneling or.stealing money, they should buy russian, as the money spent will be invested in the russian economy

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

kvs wrote:

Your answer is a cliche that means basically nothing in 2019.   If you were talking about the 1980s then there would be some merit.  Things today are vastly different than in the 1980s.   Technology is successfully commercialized in Russia.  

name then top 3 Russian hi tech brands recognized in Russia? and in the world? there is poos scalability of startups in Russia due to financial market depth (not sure about regulations), credit rates and structure of economy. Not that this is not changing but currently ti is like that.


Talking about mentality of decision makers:

https://vz.ru/news/2019/7/4/985644.html

Skvortsova asked to buy the Falcon Ministry of Health instead of SSJ-100

It is noted that the Falcon 7X is made by Dassault Aviation, the maximum number of passengers is 19 people, the flight range is up to 11 thousand kilometers, the cruising speed is 904 km / h. In this case, the SSJ-100 in the basic layout: the maximum number of passengers is 108, the flight range is up to 4.5 thousand kilometers, the cruising speed is 830 km / h.

so actually she wants to use small business jet to carry whom?  

While similar in size, a regional jet and a ultra long range business jet have quite different scopes and spec.

I though Russia was developing a business jet based on the SSJ100.

Anyway, as long as they're offered capable products, and nobody is exploiting the system by funneling or.stealing money, they should buy russian, as the money spent will be invested in the russian economy

Except for in recent past various people were bribed to buy Western planes over domestic. Aeroflot did so at behest of Il-96.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
name then top 3 Russian hi tech brands recognized in Russia? and in the world? there is poos scalability of startups in Russia due to financial market depth (not sure about regulations), credit rates and structure of economy. Not that this is not changing but currently ti is like that.

That doesn't make any sense what you just said.  Hi tech brands and scalability of start ups? Neither of the two correlate since Start ups are not the ones creating world class tech that is recognized all over the world.  Apple products been around since Cold War days.  Same with Microsoft.  Same with GE and other major brands.  Tesla is an exception but that even goes to say that most of that tech came from state run enterprises that made it and then given to Elon Musk who is just really good at marketing.

That is all there is to it.  Marketing.  Russians are just as dumb as everyone else when Apple can outsell everything else on the market when it itself is just trash.[/quote]

Russia has its own venture fund market. Its rather small and almost not used as majority of the money comes from bank loans or from major enterprises funding the small altogether. With recent changes (as of two years ago), major Russian companies have to go through SME's in Russia first before going to bigger fish in order to find what they need. There is apparently a digital structure in place where it connects all the businesses to each other. That is how Russian SME's start and grow. Venture funds are fine and all but those are simply something from private fields which of course is still small in Russia. Why? Because oligarchs don't want to fund shit and just buy apartments and teams in UK. That will also change soon too.

The murican brands are so large because there is no competitor from the EU. There market is open for products from Mapple, Macrosoft and so on. But it is closed for anything from Russia.

The only real fault of the russian "biznezmen" was to try to get into western markets with some products instead of concentrating their efforts on some "3 world countries".

The big American companies got big by going into smaller markets and buying up all the competition... here in New Zealand most of the bottling companies are Coke... they even make local drinks like L&P (Lemon & Paeroa... which is a local lemon drink... but they also make Sprite and 7up lemon drinks too... because people recognise the brand name and think it is the competition when it really is not...).

Apple are a computer company that make things for people who don't know and don't care about computers... you don't upgrade an Apple... you throw it out and buy a new one when the old one is obsolete. It is consumerist computing.

I tend to keep my old computers so I can continue to play my old games but even then most of the time I can upgrade them if I am quick enough to buy the RAM and graphic cards while they are still available... right now you would struggle to get RAM for old computers because they simply don't make that kind any more... same with graphics cards.

With serious economic sanctions on Russia it is no surprise we don't know Russian brand names by heart... I have had a look at my stuff and I can't find anything made in the US or the UK or France or Germany... it is all made in Asia.

Keeping the sanctions going means Russian companies can get stronger, especially agriculture...

It is funny but I rather suspect it is the poor european farmers that will eventually force an end to the sanctions so Russia will end their sanctions... but I think they are going to be in for a bit of a shock, because when the market opens up again they are going to find they are competing with much stronger Russian sources of food, but those stronger sources will also be let in to the EU market as well and with the value of the rouble...

kvs wrote:I suspect that the patent lawsuits are frivolous and dirty pool by western companies and western-wannabe companies.  Corporations use
patents to manipulate market share and undermine their competitors and extort technology IP from them.   RAMBUS was notorious for using the
ridiculous US Patent Office to extort money from SDRAM manufacturers.  They would file blank patents (they had 3 years to fill them) and
sit on JEDEC open committee meetings that defined SDRAM specs.   RAMBUS would then file the specs in their blank patents.  After that they
would sue all the JEDEC members companies for "royalties".  

A more benign example is the Intel and AMD transfer of IP that allowed AMD to compete with Intel.  I do not think Intel gave AMD its IP
out of charity.   AMD was successful in using some agreement to get their hands on Intel's patents.  

Yota clearly had market leading ideas.   So it was destroyed to feed the entrenched vultures.   The ones stealing IP are the clowns
using the lawyers.  

Yota wasn't hit by patent lawsuits

It was sued by AFAIK the factory in Singapore; over unpaid contracts, work and so on.

Yota had some unique products but for almost its whole history its bottom-lines were in the red. It lost money every year. It kept piling money into revised products; YotaPhone 2, YotaPhone 3, etc... but it failed to even enter most markets. I believe their final phone was sold only in China or some such; not even in Russia.

Were they to have made a concentrated PR and contract push, and started selling from the very beggining - in China, Russia & CIS, Japan, S. Korea, the US, Latin America, Europe, the Middle East, Australia, South-East Asia etc... at least with a couple distributors in each of these regions, on a low-scale; then they would have known what's in demand where, and would have known where to try and establish themselves.
As it is they sold in a few markets, didn't make money, then lost more money on making more products that also didn't sell as well as expected. The end.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:
name then top 3 Russian hi tech brands recognized in Russia? and in the world? there is poos scalability of startups in Russia due to financial market depth (not sure about regulations), credit rates and structure of economy. Not that this is not changing but currently ti is like that.

Yandex, Kaspersky Labs

and MiG

flamming_python wrote:Yandex, Kaspersky Labs

and MiG

You forgot Elbrus or MCST.

AlfaT8 wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Yandex, Kaspersky Labs

and MiG

You forgot Elbrus or MCST.

Rosatom: It's by far the biggest and most important nuclear power conglomerate in the world! It has contracts worth in to the hundreds of billions of Dollars, It can penetrate markets notoriously closed off from Russian business (hello E.U.), but most importantly it's by far (by wide margin) the leader in bleeding edge nuclear tech, which happens to be 'dual-use' and was seen to great affect on March 1st, 2018.

I forgot nothing; but those aren't brands that will be remembered by a lot of ordinary people.

I'll also add 1C as an easy equal to any of the three I named.
Instantly recognizable in Russia due to its domination of the Russian accounting and ERP business software sector, and a lot of gamers would know it abroad too.

AMD has been in the massive red since the before 1990 until the last few years. Yota being in the red means basically nothing.
People should not judge based on cliche notions of how capitalism actually works. It is unfair to expect a startup to be making
profits at the beginning of its market foray when even established companies (e.g. AMD) cannot make profits when faced with
competitors (Intel) that have massive market share and economies of scale.

It is a bit like agriculture... how could Russian agriculture grow when food from the EU is so cheap and makes their products unprofitable... you would have to some how cut off that source of cheap food so you can grow and develop production and management to handle production and sales to a level that would be competitive... hahahaha...

Sanctions are an opportunity to grow and develop... but opportunities need to be taken advantage of and not squandered.

When Yota entered capitalist market and tried to make a place there, it had to be submitted under the rules of capitalism. Yota's superior traits could not help it survive if they did not bring any real advantages under capitalistic competition.

My opinion is that Yota's superiority means nothing when the market has already been monopolized by giant corporates. And for long the giant capitalists determined the needs of consumers instead of appeased them.

A spectacular debunking of all the liberast theorizing about the USSR. The Baikal-Amur Magistral (BAM, a rail line) has become vital to
Russia's economy. It is critical to access ports and enabling economic links deep into Siberia. In the above video, the words
of shock therapy witch doctor Gaidar, one of the key players who led to the 1990s super-depression in Russia and with the blood
of at leas 8 million people on his hands, are presented. This clown was knocking BAM for being a totally pointless Soviet project
that was "characteristic of the filed USSR economic model". This lying f*ck was so detached from reality or such a mass murdering
cunt that his words are outright comedy today.

Russia is busy expanding BAM to accommodate the growing transport demand. The current project is actually bigger than the Soviet
one. Since the dog Gaidar is no longer on this mortal coil he is not around to piss on the current project, and by the same token
not available to be pissed on for his putrid theorizing.

Another detail in the video is Gaidar bitching about a 25% cost over-run for building the BAM. What a freaking joke! Call us when
the cost over runs are by factors of 100% and higher, which is normal for a lot of projects in the "normal west".

kvs wrote:Another detail in the video is Gaidar bitching about a 25% cost over-run for building the BAM.   What a freaking joke!   Call us when
the cost over runs are by factors of 100% and higher, which is normal for a lot of projects in the "normal west".  

Gaidar should have been shot by a firing squad for his crimes. He is among those responsabile for the death of about.8 million people.in the 90s.

It is too late for people like him and Eltsin, but it would be a fitting end for a traitor like Gorbachev